Jeff's Termination Discussion Thread - Please Keep ALL Related Discussion Here

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

This isn't quite an 'official' thread, but it will make things much cleaner on the GGD board if we focus our discussion to a single thread. I can't make this stickied, but I don't have any doubts regarding it staying alive due to user posts and such.

Also, to keep things from getting out of hand, let's not resort to talks regarding to things like board invasions, account suicides, and the such. This is something that has struck us all in a deep way, and letting the emotions get too out of hand isn't going to make things any easier for us all.

Thanks for your understanding.

#2 Posted by Nightingale27 (661 posts) -
Firing Jeff is like Gamespot running over a bunch of puppies and kittens with a hummer.
#3 Posted by Lorindol (2589 posts) -

Can you tell us how much of the stuff we are hearing is true...or are they going to make a newsline about it soon.

#4 Posted by Lanezy (2438 posts) -

I got too emotional last night and vowed never to come back to GameSpot. For one thing, I won't be coming here for the reviews, but rather the community. That is one thing I like about GameSpot.

I feel bad for Jeff, but I know that he'll do just fine. As for what has transpired over the last 24 hours or so, I find it outrageous. Although, I did find some much needed hilarity in the player reviews for Kayne & Lynch -- Ugh, it's hard to think about that game. I know for many (myself included), the credibilty of GameSpot and reviews in general, have very little meaning.

#5 Posted by thriteenthmonke (49824 posts) -

Firing Jeff is like Gamespot running over a bunch of puppies and kittens with a hummer.Nightingale27

I lol'd

But seriously, this sucks.

#6 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

Can you tell us how much of the stuff we are hearing is true...or are they going to make a newsline about it soon.Lorindol
I don't really know much more than you guys do on any official level, and I don't think any of the editors or such (or even Jeff) can legally disclose too much information on the matter.

So I can't really say much more about the matter, other than yes, Jeff is no longer with Gamespot, and I don't know when they'll make any sort of official announcement on the matter.

#7 Posted by Lorindol (2589 posts) -

[QUOTE="Lorindol"]Can you tell us how much of the stuff we are hearing is true...or are they going to make a newsline about it soon.Skylock00

I don't really know much more than you guys do on any official level, and I don't think any of the editors or such (or even Jeff) can legally disclose too much information on the matter.

So I can't really say much more about the matter, other than yes, Jeff is no longer with Gamespot, and I don't know when they'll make any sort of official announcement on the matter.

thanks for the reply

#8 Posted by Lanezy (2438 posts) -

[QUOTE="Lorindol"]Can you tell us how much of the stuff we are hearing is true...or are they going to make a newsline about it soon.Skylock00

I don't really know much more than you guys do on any official level, and I don't think any of the editors or such (or even Jeff) can legally disclose too much information on the matter.

So I can't really say much more about the matter, other than yes, Jeff is no longer with Gamespot, and I don't know when they'll make any sort of official announcement on the matter.

You Mods must be having a rough 24 hours. I know JustPlainLucas lost his cool in the off-topic board, but apologized afterwards.

#9 Posted by kingfire11 (1498 posts) -

[QUOTE="Lorindol"]Can you tell us how much of the stuff we are hearing is true...or are they going to make a newsline about it soon.Skylock00

I don't really know much more than you guys do on any official level, and I don't think any of the editors or such (or even Jeff) can legally disclose too much information on the matter.

So I can't really say much more about the matter, other than yes, Jeff is no longer with Gamespot, and I don't know when they'll make any sort of official announcement on the matter.

thanks, that was what I wanted to know. it's pretty sad though.

#10 Posted by Travo_basic (38751 posts) -
This really has been pretty abrupt. I've never seen anything like this on Gamespot.
#11 Posted by kingfire11 (1498 posts) -
[QUOTE="Skylock00"]

[QUOTE="Lorindol"]Can you tell us how much of the stuff we are hearing is true...or are they going to make a newsline about it soon.Lanezy

I don't really know much more than you guys do on any official level, and I don't think any of the editors or such (or even Jeff) can legally disclose too much information on the matter.

So I can't really say much more about the matter, other than yes, Jeff is no longer with Gamespot, and I don't know when they'll make any sort of official announcement on the matter.

You Mods must be having a rough 24 hours. I know JustPlainLucas lost his cool in the off-topic board, but apologized afterwards.

Wait, JustPlaintLuces did what?

#12 Posted by JC-Watts (11967 posts) -
Jeff is as free as a butterfly he will fly to new adventures, god bless him and god bless this forum.
#13 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

You Mods must be having a rough 24 hours. I know JustPlainLucas lost his cool in the off-topic board, but apologized afterwards.

Lanezy

Yeah, it's rough, but the only things I'm really addressing are people who are being foolish enough to think that account suiciding is going to do any good, which it doesn't.

All it does is give the moderators more work, when we have nothing to do with the situation, and in several cases feel just as upset as you guys about it.

#14 Posted by ASK_Story (11455 posts) -

I read some more info about this from other sources. But it looks like the Eidos thing is true but there's also something deeper.

It looks like the recent management change is the catalyst.

#15 Posted by BlackdogGT (172 posts) -
Your company should be ashamed, Skylock. Rumors such as these tend to be true. It's outrageous, and hopefully GS feels the effect in a loss of traffic because of it.
#16 Posted by trigun3x (1987 posts) -
Skylock00 is doing a great job trying to organise this board with all the chaos, good luck to the moderators in the next few days....

my opinion doesn't change much from user to user, i liked Jeff's reviews on games, if the rumours to his firing are true then it's more of a disjustice to the journalist community
#17 Posted by mitch3 (352 posts) -

i missed the Freak of Of JustPlaneLucas, But if he looses it, then this is something big,

I do know from the few Editor blogs i have read there all scared or really saddend by this

#18 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

Your company should be ashamed, Skylock. Rumors such as these tend to be true. It's outrageous, and hopefully GS feels the effect in a loss of traffic because of it.BlackdogGT
What do you mean 'my' company?

I don't work directly for Gamespot or CNet other than being a community moderator. I have no control or say over /anything/ with the company, and I'm not even a paid employee or anything.

#19 Posted by Dariency (9406 posts) -

Skylock, do you think the admins will approve this topic? I think they've said that they want all Jeff talk to be limited to the thread in the OT board.

#20 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

Skylock, do you think the admins will approve this topic? I think they've said that they want all Jeff talk to be limited to the thread in the OT board.

dog64
They gave the thumbs up for a similar topic to be made in the GGD, so we should be fine.
#21 Posted by Username289 (240 posts) -
Finally a mod who isn't out there blocking the floodgate of Jeff advocate threads.
#22 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

Finally a mod who isn't out there blocking the floodgate of Jeff advocate threads.Username289
We never were trying to do that, though. We were asked by the admins to direct all discussion to the thread in off topic, which we have been trying to do, and now we've been given clearance to do a similar thread in GGD.

We aren't trying to stop anyone from talking about this, at all, just keep it organized and focused.

#23 Posted by Lanezy (2438 posts) -
One things for sure: Kayne & Lynche: Dead Men is probably the most hated game here on GameSpot. I wonder if the game, or if other published/future published games by Eidos will take a hit in sales?
#24 Posted by Travo_basic (38751 posts) -

Your company should be ashamed, Skylock. Rumors such as these tend to be true. It's outrageous, and hopefully GS feels the effect in a loss of traffic because of it.BlackdogGT

His company? Slylock doesn't get paid. He volunteers.

#25 Posted by Dariency (9406 posts) -
[QUOTE="dog64"]

Skylock, do you think the admins will approve this topic? I think they've said that they want all Jeff talk to be limited to the thread in the OT board.

Skylock00

They gave the thumbs up for a similar topic to be made in the GGD, so we should be fine.

That's good. I think we needed a new topic anyway because the one in OT is getting too flooded. I don't know it'll be allowed to reach 10,000 posts or what.

#26 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18646 posts) -

I can't quite make up my mind.

Option A: Watching the deleted video review (once again, thanks YouTube) I've been wondering: what if this is just a dirty trick to give Gamespot visibilty by giving the gaming community something to talk about?

Yet, this is a pretty cynical thing to think, so I won't.

Option B: Jeff has some guts. I mean, he's been in the gaming industry for a decade, he knew what he was running into for bashing a game like Kake & Leech. yet he decided to do it anyway. How brave was that? IF and I stress IF this is the case, he's going to be my favouite reviewer on IGN or whoever hires him next.

One thing I'm 101% sure: Kate & Lucy: Dead Men is not going to sell much. Everybody is going to hate it for what happened. they should have swallowed their 6.0, now they're going to lose their money. MONEY. MONEY. MONEY.

#27 Posted by ASK_Story (11455 posts) -

Just wondering Skylock, you don't have to answer. But are you thinking about leaving Gamespot after this and not posting here anymore?

I'm considering it especially if all the people I discuss with here leave as well.

The forums won't be the same that's for sure.

#28 Posted by Lorindol (2589 posts) -
the talk in this thread is a bit more civil.......thats a good thing, the hate in OT is just amazing right now....
#29 Posted by BlackdogGT (172 posts) -

[QUOTE="BlackdogGT"]Your company should be ashamed, Skylock. Rumors such as these tend to be true. It's outrageous, and hopefully GS feels the effect in a loss of traffic because of it.Skylock00

What do you mean 'my' company?

I don't work directly for Gamespot or CNet other than being a community moderator. I have no control or say over /anything/ with the company, and I'm not even a paid employee or anything.

Apologies to you then, Sky. I rarely visit the forums here, so I'm not up to speed on the roles of the moderators and their ties to Gamespot. My opinion remains, though. Don't take my post as a flame directed at you or an attempt to garner attention. I've read up on the story via 1up and Kotaku, though I visit this site on a regular and daily basis. I trust(ed) this site, subscribe to the Hotspot poscast, and generally enjoy all of the content. But the negatives of this issue greatly outweigh the positives. And that's why I'm done with CNET based websites. Shame, really.

#30 Posted by UpInFlames (13279 posts) -

ONe things for sure: Kayne & Lynche: Dead Men is probably the most hated game here on GameSpot.Lanezy

Yes, and that saddens me. Neither Io Interactive nor their game deserves this. Just like Jeff and all of the guys at GameSpot, they've been pushed into becoming the key players of something that's out of their control.

#31 Posted by neojam (1220 posts) -
I think Jeff should go and open his own unbiased review site, where he doesn't have to kiss investors "backside" in his reviews to stay employed. I bet he could find a lot of good sponsors after that much of publicity to make a living of it.

About CNET, IGN, GS, Gamespy & etc, they are all about marketing and money now.
If you want journalistic credibility, you should look elsewhere.

I'll stick to Kotaku & other gawker blogs for my reading needs.
#32 Posted by gigaman299 (1734 posts) -
WHOA! WHOOOOA. WHOOOOOOOOOOA! I don't know why he got fired, or terminated but that's pretty bad on Gamespot... Jeff was a good reviewer that spoke the truth, I don't see why he got terminated. That's baaad..... I don't see why Jeff G. got fired. Lots of games got bad reviews... what makes this mediocre game so special? Besides, MOST review sites gave it less than 6.5, why'd Jeff get fired?
#33 Posted by EdgecrusherAza (7038 posts) -

[QUOTE="Lanezy"]ONe things for sure: Kayne & Lynche: Dead Men is probably the most hated game here on GameSpot.UpInFlames

Yes, and that saddens me. Neither Io Interactive nor their game deserves this. Just like Jeff and all of the guys at GameSpot, they've been pushed into becoming the key players of something that's out of their control.

Yeah, stop the hate on Kane & Lynch. IO Interactive are great, they made the game and have nothing to do with any of this crap. They also made two of my favorite last-gen games: Hitman 2 and Freedom Fighters.

Hate Eidos all you want, but don't take it out on the developers, who had nothing to do with their corporate corruption.

#34 Posted by Ravenprose (418 posts) -
I feel real bad for Jeff and the rest of the Gamespot team. This is an awful thing to happen to such a great site and community. I've read Gamespot since 2001, and I'd hate to think that corporate greed may lead to its downfall. I'm going to stick around for a while and see what happens. I'll decide in a week or two if I want to continue supporting this site.
#35 Posted by Dariency (9406 posts) -

Just wondering Skylock, you don't have to answer. But are you thinking about leaving Gamespot after this and not posting here anymore?

I'm considering it especially if all the people I discuss with here leave as well.

The forums won't be the same that's for sure.

ASK_Story

Personally I don't think leaving Gamespot or cancelling your total access is going to help any. You're just taking away your extra privileges on the site for something that really doesn't affect you. We may all be upset about Jeff being fired, as am I, but it's not causing me to leave. And Gamespot isn't going to suffer much even if many more people unsubscribe. This site gets many new visitors everyday. Some of them will subscribe, notknowing about Jeff or who we was, and then Cnet/Gamespot will get their subscription money back.

But everyone do what your conscience tells you.

#36 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

Just wondering Skylock, you don't have to answer. But are you thinking about leaving Gamespot after this and not posting here anymore?

I'm considering it especially if all the people I discuss with here leave as well.

The forums won't be the same that's for sure.

ASK_Story

Well, I guess it comes down to what happens to some of the other guys who work at GS, and the community itself. I've worked hard for this community for years, and it's really the only general gaming community that I'm a member of, so it's something that I hold strongly as important.

I'm still not sure what I'll do, but leaving GS isn't out of the question, as much as I don't like to say it.

#37 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -
Oh, also, I want to thank UpInFlames, who was the one who got the green light for this thread to be made. :)
#38 Posted by bpenticuff (4 posts) -

Have the mods given serious consideration to quitting over this? It's a horrible example of credibility and integrity lost (or in this case sacrificed on the altar of marketing) and I am suprised to think that anyone whose ability to make ends meat isn't affected by quiting would choose to stay?

Do you choose to remain a moderater on these boards because you believe in the company that you are serving? Or do you simply enjoy doing it enough that it outweighs what taking a stand would cost you personally?

This isn't meant as a flame though obviously its pointed. I'm just curious to hear why you would continue to moderate and in turn provide a free service to a company that has done what they have done to an employee of 10 years for the reasons that appear to have occured.

Good luck to all of those unfairly tainted by this throughout CNet's affiliates. This probably sucks more than it does for Jeff at this point since he at least has the benefit of being a martyr in this mess.

#39 Posted by neojam (1220 posts) -

[QUOTE="Lanezy"]ONe things for sure: Kayne & Lynche: Dead Men is probably the most hated game here on GameSpot.UpInFlames

Yes, and that saddens me. Neither Io Interactive nor their game deserves this. Just like Jeff and all of the guys at GameSpot, they've been pushed into becoming the key players of something that's out of their control.


True, but EIDOS is more than just partially responsible for what have happened here as well.
Its like CELL9SONG has said over at valleywag:
"if they did indeed pull their advertising due to the negative review then they are complicit in this whole affair. Technically they may well be within their legal rights to do so but I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't be able to see the ramifications of their actions. The whole thing smells vaguely of payola."
And i agree with him.

#40 Posted by bpenticuff (4 posts) -
Youv'e kinda adressed it since I started typing, feel free to ignore this post. Good luck to you.
#41 Posted by Darkryu44 (370 posts) -

Two words: Sold out.

I'm sorry, but if Gamespot supports this virus that's infected the gaming industry, I refuse to read you're reviews. And to top that all off, you guys fearfully locked at least 10 legible posts about your own loyal users complaining. Goodbye.

#42 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

Do you choose to remain a moderater on these boards because you believe in the company that you are serving? Or do you simply enjoy doing it enough that it outweighs what taking a stand would cost you personally?

bpenticuff

Well, in all honesty, I didn't become a moderator because I believed in the company I'm serving, because I don't feel like I serve CNet as a company, or even Gamespot as a company as much. I serve the community, and that has always been my incentive to becoming a moderator, and staying a moderator.

So really, my incentive to stay will weigh more on the community side of things than anything else.

#43 Posted by Skylock00 (20069 posts) -

Two words: Sold out.

I'm sorry, but if Gamespot supports this virus that's infected the gaming industry, I refuse to read you're reviews. And to top that all off, you guys fearfully locked at least 10 legible posts about your own loyal users complaining. Goodbye.

Darkryu44

We didn't 'fearfully' lock anything, so you can drop the tone there.

We want to simply keep discussion focused in one thread, that's all, because it's much better for everyone than 10 separate threads on the same topic.

#44 Posted by dvader654 (44751 posts) -

Thank you skylock for letting us discuss this here, with the people I normally discuss anything gaming related. Make no question this goes farther than GS, if true it puts a black eye on gaming journalism even though many other journalists are saying there has never been anything this severe. Itsa bad situation when you have companies putting up ads with conditions, and its worst when there are some sites or mags that need the money that give. I am sure GS did not give in, their owners did and now the integrity of this site comes into question when its not their fault, its such a terrible situation.

I have been trying to keep all news I can gather in my blog, so if you want to see it all just hit my name it will take you there. I wanted to share this one article which is the most damming one all day. No way to tell if its real or not, sadly we may never get a straight answer but here it is:

http://valleywag.com/tech/jeff-gerstmann/gamespot-editor-on-fired-writer-328775.php

We're very clear in our review policies that all reviews are vetted by the entire team before they go live - everything that goes up is the product of an entire team's output. Our freelancers are especially guilty of making snide comments, but those are always yanked before the review goes live, because everyone in the office reads these reviews and makes sure they're up to our standards before they get put up.

If there was a problem with his reviews, then it would've been a problem with the entire team. Firing him without telling anyone implies that anyone else on this team can be fired at the drop of a hat as well, because none of us are writing any differently or meaner or less professionally than we were two years ago before the management changed. I'm sure management wants to spin this as the G-Man being unprofessional to take away from the egg on their face that results after a ten-year employee gets locked out of his office and told to leave the premises and then no one communicates anything to us about it until the next day.


This management team has shown what they're willing to do. Jeff had ten years in and was **** locked out of his office and told to leave the building.

What you might not be aware of is that GS is well known for appealing mostly to hardcore gamers. The mucky-mucks have been doing a lot of "brand research" over the last year or so and indicating that they want to reach out to more casual gamers. Our last executive editor, Greg Kasavin, left to go to EA, and he was replaced by a suit, Josh Larson, who had no editorial experience and was only involved on the business side of things. Over the last year there has been an increasing amount of pressure to allow the advertising teams to have more of a say in the editorial process; we've started having to give our sales team heads-ups when a game is getting a low score, for instance, so that they can let the advertisers know that before a review goes up. Other publishers have started giving us notes involving when our reviews can go up; if a game's getting a 9 or above, it can go up early; if not, it'll have to wait until after the game is on the shelves.

I was in the meeting where Josh Larson was trying to explain this firing and the guy had absolutely no response to any of the criticisms we were sending his way. He kept dodging the question, saying that there were "multiple instances of tone" in the reviews that he hadn't been happy about, but that wasn't Jeff's problem since we all vet every review. He also implied that "AAA" titles deserved more attention when they were being reviewed, which sounded to all of us that he was implying that they should get higher scores, especially since those titles are usually more highly advertised on our site.

I know that it's all about the money, and hey, I like money. I like advertising because it pays my salary. Unfortunately after Kasavin left the church-and-state separation between the sales teams and the editorial team has cracked, and with Jeff's firing I think it's clear that the management now has no interest at all in integrity and are instead looking for an editorial team that will be nicer to the advertisors.

When companies make games as downright contemptible as Kane and Lynch, they deserve to be called on it. I guess you'll have to go to Onion or a smaller site for objective reviews now, because everyone at GS now thinks that if they give a low score to a high-profile game, they'll be [fired]. Everyone's******* scared and we're all hoping to get Josh Larson removed from his position because no one trusts him anymore. If that doesn't happen then look for every game to be Game of the Year material at GameSpot.

#45 Posted by Nightingale27 (661 posts) -

check out my new sig.

I am seriously pissed about this though. I joined Gamespot about a two years ago, but have come here every day since. If the reviews turn fake, I might put a bullet in my head, or something to that effect.

#46 Posted by ASK_Story (11455 posts) -
[QUOTE="ASK_Story"]

Just wondering Skylock, you don't have to answer. But are you thinking about leaving Gamespot after this and not posting here anymore?

I'm considering it especially if all the people I discuss with here leave as well.

The forums won't be the same that's for sure.

Skylock00

Well, I guess it comes down to what happens to some of the other guys who work at GS, and the community itself. I've worked hard for this community for years, and it's really the only general gaming community that I'm a member of, so it's something that I hold strongly as important.

I'm still not sure what I'll do, but leaving GS isn't out of the question, as much as I don't like to say it.

I understand.

All I'll say is if you leave than I'll probably end up leaving as well. Because when long time mods who contributed so much to this forum start leaving than the heart and soul of this forum is dead if you ask me.

#47 Posted by EdgecrusherAza (7038 posts) -

So I wonder if Jeff is getting another job at a mag or another site? Not to mention all the other GS staff, Tim T. and anyone else.

This Ghost bat also ponders these questions:

#48 Posted by Travo_basic (38751 posts) -
So in the long run, what do you guys think will happen to Gamespot? I've been coming here for a long time and really enjoy this community. I couldn't imagine having to go to another site for my gaming info.
#49 Posted by Nightingale27 (661 posts) -

If everyone leaves, how will we still stay unified?

Where will we go?

#50 Posted by FM2000 (131 posts) -

I just canceled my total access account. Not really because I'll miss Jeff all that much (nothing personal, he was a good reviewer), but because I can't trust a site that's going to put advertising and making money from it, over giving honest reviews, even if it means a game with a lot of hype about it gets shot down out of the gate.

Gamespot used to be the site FOR gamers, BY gamers...now it's the site FOR gamers, BY coporate suits and advertisers!

I've noticed that Gamespot has been sliding downhill ever since Rich left...On the Spot has become more or less a "maybe we'll have a show this week, maybe we won't".