IGN: Layoffs at Sony Santa Monica. Stig's New IP Cancelled?

  • 53 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Edited by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

Reliable sources have confirmed to IGN that there were layoffs at Sony Santa Monica Studio today. The Sony-owned, exclusive developer – founded in 1999 – is best known for its God of War games. The extent of the damage remains unclear, though there are indications that one of the projects the studio was working on has been cancelled alongside this round of layoffs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

This explains why they haven’t shown anything for next gen despite working on it for four years now. The project was probably in development hell. Great news for the non-existent PS4 exclusive line up. If their biggest studio is struggling, what hope do other studios have?

Also, lol at everyone who said games will come when I bitched about major Sony studios being a no-show at every trade show at and since E3.

Worst start possible for the PS4.

#2 Edited by Jacanuk (4200 posts) -

Reliable sources have confirmed to IGN that there were layoffs at Sony Santa Monica Studio today. The Sony-owned, exclusive developer – founded in 1999 – is best known for its God of War games. The extent of the damage remains unclear, though there are indications that one of the projects the studio was working on has been cancelled alongside this round of layoffs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

This explains why they haven’t shown anything for next gen despite working on it for four years now. The project was probably in development hell. Great news for the non-existent PS4 exclusive line up. If their biggest studio is struggling, what hope do other studios have?

Also, lol at everyone who said games will come when I bitched about major Sony studios being a no-show at every trade show at and since E3.

Worst start possible for the PS4.

Eh? Santa Monica is Sonys biggest studio since when? And Sonys biggest is by far Naughty Dog.

Also what are you talking about they haven't shown anything? They are collaborating with Ready at Dawn on The Order so its not like they are not working on anything else. Not to mention Hohokum and Everybody is going to Rapture.

#3 Posted by BiggChonies882 (48 posts) -

Reliable sources have confirmed to IGN that there were layoffs at Sony Santa Monica Studio today. The Sony-owned, exclusive developer – founded in 1999 – is best known for its God of War games. The extent of the damage remains unclear, though there are indications that one of the projects the studio was working on has been cancelled alongside this round of layoffs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

This explains why they haven’t shown anything for next gen despite working on it for four years now. The project was probably in development hell. Great news for the non-existent PS4 exclusive line up. If their biggest studio is struggling, what hope do other studios have?

Also, lol at everyone who said games will come when I bitched about major Sony studios being a no-show at every trade show at and since E3.

Worst start possible for the PS4.

Totally. What a nightmare for Sony. Best selling system ever through 4 months! Awful!

#4 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@S0lidSnake said:

Reliable sources have confirmed to IGN that there were layoffs at Sony Santa Monica Studio today. The Sony-owned, exclusive developer – founded in 1999 – is best known for its God of War games. The extent of the damage remains unclear, though there are indications that one of the projects the studio was working on has been cancelled alongside this round of layoffs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

This explains why they haven’t shown anything for next gen despite working on it for four years now. The project was probably in development hell. Great news for the non-existent PS4 exclusive line up. If their biggest studio is struggling, what hope do other studios have?

Also, lol at everyone who said games will come when I bitched about major Sony studios being a no-show at every trade show at and since E3.

Worst start possible for the PS4.

Eh? Santa Monica is Sonys biggest studio since when? And Sonys biggest is by far Naughty Dog.

Also what are you talking about they haven't shown anything? They are collaborating with Ready at Dawn on The Order so its not like they are not working on anything else. Not to mention Hohokum and Everybody is going to Rapture.

They were Sony’s biggest studio for a while. I guess ND overtook them when they split into two teams. They are still massive… +220 vs ~250 according to Wikipedia.

And collaborating on projects doesn’t mean shit when you are a studio that big. You need to be producing AAA games all the time. So they collaborated on Unfinished Swan and some other indie game. I am sure Sony took that into account before they realized they were redundant and too expensive.

It is not too productive for a 220+ person studio to produce only two AAA games over the course of 7 years. That’s why Sony’s axed them.

I blame Shu Yoshida for mismanaging the fuck out of these studios. TLG, Drive Club, Gran Turismo have all been poorly managed. Something like Knack should have never been released.

#5 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -
@S0lidSnake said:

Reliable sources have confirmed to IGN that there were layoffs at Sony Santa Monica Studio today. The Sony-owned, exclusive developer – founded in 1999 – is best known for its God of War games. The extent of the damage remains unclear, though there are indications that one of the projects the studio was working on has been cancelled alongside this round of layoffs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

This explains why they haven’t shown anything for next gen despite working on it for four years now. The project was probably in development hell. Great news for the non-existent PS4 exclusive line up. If their biggest studio is struggling, what hope do other studios have?

Also, lol at everyone who said games will come when I bitched about major Sony studios being a no-show at every trade show at and since E3.

Worst start possible for the PS4.

Totally. What a nightmare for Sony. Best selling system ever through 4 months! Awful!

Maybe. If you like sales that is. I like Sony games, and I am currently not playing any. So good for you. Hope you are enjoying the sales on your PS4. Let me know how fun that is.

#6 Edited by BiggChonies882 (48 posts) -

@S0lidSnake:

Ha. Why the fuck would I buy a PS4 when there is nothing on it? Although I'm buying one on March 18th for Ground Zeroes. Just played Left Behind though. Awesome!

PS4 will hit it's stride. I like Santa Monica but honestly God of War 1 was the only one that really blew me away. That was great game.

#7 Posted by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@S0lidSnake said:

Reliable sources have confirmed to IGN that there were layoffs at Sony Santa Monica Studio today. The Sony-owned, exclusive developer – founded in 1999 – is best known for its God of War games. The extent of the damage remains unclear, though there are indications that one of the projects the studio was working on has been cancelled alongside this round of layoffs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

This explains why they haven’t shown anything for next gen despite working on it for four years now. The project was probably in development hell. Great news for the non-existent PS4 exclusive line up. If their biggest studio is struggling, what hope do other studios have?

Also, lol at everyone who said games will come when I bitched about major Sony studios being a no-show at every trade show at and since E3.

Worst start possible for the PS4.

Eh? Santa Monica is Sonys biggest studio since when? And Sonys biggest is by far Naughty Dog.

Also what are you talking about they haven't shown anything? They are collaborating with Ready at Dawn on The Order so its not like they are not working on anything else. Not to mention Hohokum and Everybody is going to Rapture.

They were Sony’s biggest studio for a while. I guess ND overtook them when they split into two teams. They are still massive… +220 vs ~250 according to Wikipedia.

And collaborating on projects doesn’t mean shit when you are a studio that big. You need to be producing AAA games all the time. So they collaborated on Unfinished Swan and some other indie game. I am sure Sony took that into account before they realized they were redundant and too expensive.

It is not too productive for a 220+ person studio to produce only two AAA games over the course of 7 years. That’s why Sony’s axed them.

I blame Shu Yoshida for mismanaging the fuck out of these studios. TLG, Drive Club, Gran Turismo have all been poorly managed. Something like Knack should have never been released.

Solid, you certainly get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions. We don't know how many people were laid off, what they were working on or why the project was cancelled.

SSM is actively hiring (they said as much to Irrational) and just moved into a larger studio, so the move is certainly unexpected.

I hope the newly unemployed land on their feet.

#8 Posted by ZZoMBiE13 (22911 posts) -

Something like Knack should have never been released.

Heh, never miss a chance to twist the knife on poor little Knack, do you?

Not that I'm complaining. I find your dedication to slamming that game quite entertaining. :)

#9 Posted by Jacanuk (4200 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@S0lidSnake said:

Reliable sources have confirmed to IGN that there were layoffs at Sony Santa Monica Studio today. The Sony-owned, exclusive developer – founded in 1999 – is best known for its God of War games. The extent of the damage remains unclear, though there are indications that one of the projects the studio was working on has been cancelled alongside this round of layoffs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

This explains why they haven’t shown anything for next gen despite working on it for four years now. The project was probably in development hell. Great news for the non-existent PS4 exclusive line up. If their biggest studio is struggling, what hope do other studios have?

Also, lol at everyone who said games will come when I bitched about major Sony studios being a no-show at every trade show at and since E3.

Worst start possible for the PS4.

Eh? Santa Monica is Sonys biggest studio since when? And Sonys biggest is by far Naughty Dog.

Also what are you talking about they haven't shown anything? They are collaborating with Ready at Dawn on The Order so its not like they are not working on anything else. Not to mention Hohokum and Everybody is going to Rapture.

They were Sony’s biggest studio for a while. I guess ND overtook them when they split into two teams. They are still massive… +220 vs ~250 according to Wikipedia.

And collaborating on projects doesn’t mean shit when you are a studio that big. You need to be producing AAA games all the time. So they collaborated on Unfinished Swan and some other indie game. I am sure Sony took that into account before they realized they were redundant and too expensive.

It is not too productive for a 220+ person studio to produce only two AAA games over the course of 7 years. That’s why Sony’s axed them.

I blame Shu Yoshida for mismanaging the fuck out of these studios. TLG, Drive Club, Gran Turismo have all been poorly managed. Something like Knack should have never been released.

Oh wait you meant big as in staff :D lol i thought you meant big as in most sales and titles.

But i wouldn´t be to concerned, Sony have been mismanaged for awhile now and i am glad they finally start to cut some of all that fat so they can get a lean mean fighting Sony back on track.

And with the Ps4´s success im sure they know that they can only stay 1 if they keep throwing out games.

#10 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

lol Solid, I can tell you right now this was not their PS4 title led by Stig Asmussen that was axed. You really do love jumping to conclusions, exaggerating and spelling doom for everything.

I can't wait to see what they have to show us at E3. Should be great.

#11 Posted by Bigboi500 (29291 posts) -

It's a brave new world, a world without video games.

#12 Posted by _HazBro_ (124 posts) -

First Irrational Games and now this.

This generation is off to a terrible start.

#13 Edited by Jacanuk (4200 posts) -

@Bigboi500 said:

It's a brave new world, a world without video games.

Eh? and what made you think that there wont be any videogames? so far 2014 looks to be a pretty awesome year.

Also why is it that some people think that just because a few old AAA developers fail and goes bust that it will be the end of gaming? i "hate" to tell you guys this but there is a massive indie community out there not to mention there are a huge influx of mid-size developers from eastern europe who also is coming out with games.

Not to mention the remaining AAA studios still working.

So this is nothing but what happens in a freemarket, the weak dies and the strong gets stronger.

#14 Edited by The_Last_Ride (70554 posts) -

dammit, you beat me to it :3

#15 Edited by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

lol Solid, I can tell you right now this was not their PS4 title led by Stig Asmussen that was axed. You really do love jumping to conclusions, exaggerating and spelling doom for everything.

I can't wait to see what they have to show us at E3. Should be great.

lol I am jumping to conclusions. If I didnt, it would've been a boring OP and whats the fun in that? ;p

I just think there is cause for concern when 25% of the workforce of one of Sony's biggest studios gets laid off. Same goes for not showing a single footage of their new game after it being in production for 4 years, wouldn't you say?

#16 Posted by The_Last_Ride (70554 posts) -

@S0lidSnake said:

Something like Knack should have never been released.

Heh, never miss a chance to twist the knife on poor little Knack, do you?

Not that I'm complaining. I find your dedication to slamming that game quite entertaining. :)

Same could be said for Fighter Within, Ryse, Crimson Dragon and Loco Cycle,

#17 Edited by Randolph (10452 posts) -

Everything is doomed. But at least what is left will be 1080p 60fps, and for that, I blame S0lid.

#18 Edited by ZZoMBiE13 (22911 posts) -

@ZZoMBiE13 said:

@S0lidSnake said:

Something like Knack should have never been released.

Heh, never miss a chance to twist the knife on poor little Knack, do you?

Not that I'm complaining. I find your dedication to slamming that game quite entertaining. :)

Same could be said for Fighter Within, Ryse, Crimson Dragon and Loco Cycle,

Heh. Loco-Cycle.

Anyone actually play that game? I like the developers and several of the voice actors. I don't like them enough to play that game though.

Wonder how many copies they sold?

#19 Posted by Randolph (10452 posts) -

@ZZoMBiE13: I'll buy LocoCycle when it hits $5 or so, it looks like a silly fun game, shallow, but silly fun.

#20 Edited by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

@contracts420 said:

lol Solid, I can tell you right now this was not their PS4 title led by Stig Asmussen that was axed. You really do love jumping to conclusions, exaggerating and spelling doom for everything.

I can't wait to see what they have to show us at E3. Should be great.

lol I am jumping to conclusions. If I didnt, it would've been a boring OP and whats the fun in that? ;p

I just think there is cause for concern when 25% of the workforce of one of Sony's biggest studios gets laid off. Same goes for not showing a single footage of their new game after it being in production for 4 years, wouldn't you say?

Not really, if anything it makes me wonder if this might have been the Ascension team. Which sucks because many of those members worked on God Of War III. But don't be worried, I can assure you that SSM will unveil their game at E3.

But you're right, it probably did make the thread a bit more exciting. Atleast you posted your thoughts rather than a half sentence *clears throat* @The_Last_Ride :P

#21 Edited by Bigboi500 (29291 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@Bigboi500 said:

It's a brave new world, a world without video games.

Eh? and what made you think that there wont be any videogames? so far 2014 looks to be a pretty awesome year.

Also why is it that some people think that just because a few old AAA developers fail and goes bust that it will be the end of gaming? i "hate" to tell you guys this but there is a massive indie community out there not to mention there are a huge influx of mid-size developers from eastern europe who also is coming out with games.

Not to mention the remaining AAA studios still working.

So this is nothing but what happens in a freemarket, the weak dies and the strong gets stronger.

You take me too literal, sir. I'm well aware that we have good games coming, but I, along with many others wonder what kind of future is in store.

I rag on "bro games" all the time and the people that support them, but there's plenty of other threats out there, like over-budget blockbusters that require 10 million copies to be sold in order to be successful. In order to achieve that, they'll have to appeal to the lowest common denominator, aka the Michael Bay crowd that likes cinematic scenes and rad explosions to go along with shallow gameplay. And then there's the emergence of phone and tablet gaming and a billion indie developers.

All that adds up to a very unclear future for the kinds of games that dedicated fans like you and I love. I'm sure they'll always be around in some form or another, but the frequency of them might drastically decrease, much like what we're seeing right now for instance.

#22 Posted by ZZoMBiE13 (22911 posts) -

@Randolph said:

@ZZoMBiE13: I'll buy LocoCycle when it hits $5 or so, it looks like a silly fun game, shallow, but silly fun.

Honestly, I'll likely do the same. I think there was an option on the main menu (they played it on the Giant Bomb launch streams) to let you just watch the cutscene parts of the game. The Lloyd Kaufman stuff looked really funny and I'm a big Troma nerd anyway. Plus Lisa Foiles is usually pretty funny too. I like her series on The Escapist.

#23 Edited by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

Solid is more right than most of you.

50 people have been laid off and a project has been canceled. On gaf many people are following the tweets of SM employees, 10 year vets are being laid off, seems anyone involved with the combat of GoW is being let go. Gaf says two of those people let go were working with Stig on his new game but other tweets show people who are working on the new game still have a job.

There is just no way to tell which project is done but it sure as hell ain't GoW4 so that leaves the new IP or some other game we have no clue about.

#24 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

New IP is not canceled, confirmed through twitter

This is from gaf

Talked to someone from SSM and, despite not getting any completely straight answers, this is about what I can make of the situation. They're really bummed about some of the people that are gone but it doesn't sound like it was one of the major projects that got the axe. I wish all the people that got layed off the best. Some serious talent in that pool.

My guess it was a vita game.

#25 Edited by Chozofication (2757 posts) -

If Sony doesn't show the goods at e3, things won't be looking good.

I probably will wait until next year anyways, they'd really have to surprise me at e3 and have solid release dates otherwise

#26 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

New IP is not canceled, confirmed through twitter

This is from gaf

Talked to someone from SSM and, despite not getting any completely straight answers, this is about what I can make of the situation. They're really bummed about some of the people that are gone but it doesn't sound like it was one of the major projects that got the axe. I wish all the people that got layed off the best. Some serious talent in that pool.

My guess it was a vita game.

I already knew I was right. But it's nice to get clarification, especially since you tried to say Solid was more right than most of us.

#27 Edited by Areez (6278 posts) -

@S0lidSnake: You need to relax. We are 3 1/2 months into the PS4s life cycle!! The games will come!! Infamous next month and some exciting content down the road. All this panic is for nothing.

#28 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

I think I agree with Solid about Yoshida, really think about all Sony's studios. Gran Turismo their biggest game, what a disaster GT6 is from a sales point of view. I assume the reason GT6 got made was to try to strangle as much money off of the gen before having another giant dev cycle but it didn't work. Now who knows when we get a new GT game.

We cant say anything bad about Naughty Dog, just let them do what they do. Santa Monica, who buys a new office, hires new employees then fires a bunch of people. No one wanted GoW Acsension, why was it made, or why was it made by Santa Monica, give it to Ready at Dawn.

Solid is right, why does Knack exist. It was like Cerny said he has to be allowed to make whatever he wants if he designs the PS4. They killed Wipeout. They spent a bunch of time making a poor mans Smash Bros that no one cares about.

And of course there is Team Ico which has to be the worst managed video game studio ever. 2 games in like 13 years, they should have been shut down years ago.

#29 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

I think I agree with Solid about Yoshida, really think about all Sony's studios. Gran Turismo their biggest game, what a disaster GT6 is from a sales point of view. I assume the reason GT6 got made was to try to strangle as much money off of the gen before having another giant dev cycle but it didn't work. Now who knows when we get a new GT game.

We cant say anything bad about Naughty Dog, just let them do what they do. Santa Monica, who buys a new office, hires new employees then fires a bunch of people. No one wanted GoW Acsension, why was it made, or why was it made by Santa Monica, give it to Ready at Dawn.

Solid is right, why does Knack exist. It was like Cerny said he has to be allowed to make whatever he wants if he designs the PS4. They killed Wipeout. They spent a bunch of time making a poor mans Smash Bros that no one cares about.

And of course there is Team Ico which has to be the worst managed video game studio ever. 2 games in like 13 years, they should have been shut down years ago.

I have a convert. Soon I will take over the world as Jesus Snake.

#30 Posted by firefox59 (4357 posts) -

While it's somewhat entertaining and yet hard to believe that these studios have been managed so poorly, it's sad that the devs are the ones that have to find new jobs while the people in charge remain in a position to continue screwing things up.

#31 Posted by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

I think I agree with Solid about Yoshida, really think about all Sony's studios. Gran Turismo their biggest game, what a disaster GT6 is from a sales point of view. I assume the reason GT6 got made was to try to strangle as much money off of the gen before having another giant dev cycle but it didn't work. Now who knows when we get a new GT game.

We cant say anything bad about Naughty Dog, just let them do what they do. Santa Monica, who buys a new office, hires new employees then fires a bunch of people. No one wanted GoW Acsension, why was it made, or why was it made by Santa Monica, give it to Ready at Dawn.

Solid is right, why does Knack exist. It was like Cerny said he has to be allowed to make whatever he wants if he designs the PS4. They killed Wipeout. They spent a bunch of time making a poor mans Smash Bros that no one cares about.

And of course there is Team Ico which has to be the worst managed video game studio ever. 2 games in like 13 years, they should have been shut down years ago.

Yoshida's mistake was letting GT5 ship in alpha. It put up huge numbers but it was a shit game that destroyed a lot of people's faith in the franchise (including mine).

As for Santa Monica, companies expand and fire people all the time (which usually implies that the people fired aren't useful for whatever the company's current plans are). It sucks, but that's pretty much the way capitalism works. The fact that many of the guys who were cut were involved in GoW (which lost a lot of money) is interesting.

I was less down on Ascension's campaign than some (it doesn't hit the highs of GoW3, but it doesn't hit the lows either and the puzzles were superb, though the story sucked). I can see why Sony let the team make a multiplayer aspect to GoW (they seem to give their teams a lot of rope) but I don't think I played even a round of multiplayer (like most I just saw no appeal in it) so maybe SSM should have implemented it differently or better yet poured the money into a meatier campaign (Ascension's budget was roughly 50 million which probably buts its budget above any Sony game this side of GT6).

http://www.justpushstart.com/2013/04/god-of-war-ascension-had-a-budget-of-50-million/

Also, given you two's obsession with Knack (perhaps because you are pissed it outsold Mario in the UK for a few weeks :0 ). Knack is by many accounts a solid game and by all measures has done pretty well for itself saleswise (as I said in the run up to its release, a lot of early adopters were dads looking for games they could play with their kids). I confess I've never played it myself (my daughters opted for Just Dance but if I had sons I probably would have wound up with Knack).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andyrobertson/2013/11/29/knacks-five-forgotten-family-friendly-features-on-ps4/

But to get too hung up on these things is to miss the point of Knack. This is a game that not only offers a challenge to core gamers but has been put together intelligently for families. For a launch title on a new system that is a rare thing, and something my family are very much celebrating.

Team Ico was always slow, but their games have been awesome and massively influential and SoTC was a modest commercial success (though Ico was a commercial failure). Ico's companion AI influenced the likes of Halo, RE4, MGS, Bioshock, TLOU, Uncharted and Silent Hill and their art direction is And Shadow of the Colossus showed how one could use polygons to make truly massive bosses (which were last in vogue in the 2D era). So yeah, the extended development cycle of The Last Guardian is ridiculous but I can see why Sony kept Team Ico around (up to a point which they passed about two years ago). Assuming its ever released, The Last Guardian will no doubt be Team Ico's swan song.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/09/ico/

Anyway, moving on the big picture, Yoshida has been a good leader because he didn't let Sony get sucked into the habits of a niche developer. Once Nintendo stopped being a competitor in the console market, they stopped offering a wide range of games and starting hating gamers and developers (an attitude which infects many of its followers). Nowadays they crank out nothing but Mario and Zelda and what remains of their fanbase thinks that is perfect, but once upon a time they offered a much broader range of game (they even had non-Japanese studios) and their fans had broader tastes still.

By way of contrast, once Sony's early stupidity relegated them to also-ran status in the last gen console race, Sony didn't content itself with milking the faithful with a handful of safe IPs, they kept making games for the wider market they hoped to win and that is why the PS3 eventually turned things around in terms of consumer perception and why the PS4 has gotten such a great start. So while Yoshida's strategy (which entails giving developers a lot of freedom) has resulted in some commercial failures/disappointments, overall it has clearly paid off.

#32 Posted by The_Last_Ride (70554 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@ZZoMBiE13 said:

@S0lidSnake said:

Something like Knack should have never been released.

Heh, never miss a chance to twist the knife on poor little Knack, do you?

Not that I'm complaining. I find your dedication to slamming that game quite entertaining. :)

Same could be said for Fighter Within, Ryse, Crimson Dragon and Loco Cycle,

Heh. Loco-Cycle.

Anyone actually play that game? I like the developers and several of the voice actors. I don't like them enough to play that game though.

Wonder how many copies they sold?

i doubt it sold that many

#33 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

Looks like it was Stig's game, the new IP. And Stig might be out too.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775133&page=26

Yeah,....

#34 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

I am this close to having a meltdown. Some of these dev tweets are brutal. They loved what they were working on. 4 years of work down the drain. Unbelievable.

#35 Edited by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

I am this close to having a meltdown. Some of these dev tweets are brutal. They loved what they were working on. 4 years of work down the drain. Unbelievable.

You already had a meltdown :).

Seriously its sucks that Stig's game got shut down. I've only read the sketchiest of details about the cancelled project (sci-fi game) but Stig is damn good. GoW3 had the best combat and boss encounters in the series. Be interesting to know what the budget was, how many people were working on it (couldn't have been just 50) and what moved Sony to cancel the project.

MS (and no doubt others) are looking to hire the newly unemployed (on a related note, Crytek hired the guy who directed Ascension a while ago) so all the laid off will hopefully be alright.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/20583/article/sony-santa-monica-confirms-layoffs-project-cancellation/

#36 Edited by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

@CarnageHeart: At least admit i was right about this. Like i am about 99% of everything.

#37 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

The new IP was canceled!!!!!! What?! An epic new sci-fi game 4 years in development gone just like that!!! It was going to have a huge showing at E3. Perhaps that was the game that was pulled in the last minute last year by Sony, remember that? Something bad must have been going on.

That sucks.

So GoW4 coming up next.

#38 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

So it was in development hell after all. And that’s the entire point of my bitching the last few months about these so-called games that we keep hearing will get revealed at the next trade show…. People here are already telling me to wait for E3)…. If you cant even show a short gameplay teaser of a game you’ve been working on for the past 3-4 years then your game is in trouble and definitely not coming out in 2014. Regardless of whether or not it gets unveiled at E3.

The next half of the year is going to be practically empty with AC5,BF5 and COD5 releasing in November as the only big games of the year. God what a depressing line up that is.

I remember fall and holiday 2007… Bioshock, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Halo 3, Uncharted, Ratchet, Mass Effect, CoD 4, Ass Creed 1 …. Soo many new IPs at the start of last gen.

#39 Posted by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

@CarnageHeart: At least admit i was right about this. Like i am about 99% of everything.

Right about SSM's game being development hell? Sure looks that way. You're still wrong about everything else though :).

#40 Posted by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

So it was in development hell after all. And that’s the entire point of my bitching the last few months about these so-called games that we keep hearing will get revealed at the next trade show…. People here are already telling me to wait for E3)…. If you cant even show a short gameplay teaser of a game you’ve been working on for the past 3-4 years then your game is in trouble and definitely not coming out in 2014. Regardless of whether or not it gets unveiled at E3.

The next half of the year is going to be practically empty with AC5,BF5 and COD5 releasing in November as the only big games of the year. God what a depressing line up that is.

I remember fall and holiday 2007… Bioshock, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Halo 3, Uncharted, Ratchet, Mass Effect, CoD 4, Ass Creed 1 …. Soo many new IPs at the start of last gen.

Holiday 2007 was two years into the then current gen. Also, Halo, Ratchet, CoD and Warhawk weren't new IPs...

I knew you wouldn't be able to keep your streak of being right going for more than a single post :).

Sony keeping its cards to close its vest makes sense given its history (the backlash from the CGtastic E3 2005 taught them a hard lesson) and its circumstances (I go to game stores quite often and I haven't seen a PS4 in the wild in weeks).

On a related note, I remember a certain poster working himself into hysterics because he saw a screen capture of a low resolution offscreen video of Killzone and convinced himself that Sony had been lying to him and that everything shown before was fake.

If you want to believe Sony isn't going to unveil any 2013 games at E3, suit yourself. I'm sure they will show off many such games. Of course, some of the games will be online only (if you are a small developer in 2014 making an online focused, budget priced game akin to 2007's Warhawk, there is no reason to bother with retail).

#41 Posted by firefox59 (4357 posts) -

Holiday 2007 was two years into the then current gen. Also, Halo, Ratchet, CoD and Warhawk weren't new IPs...

I knew you wouldn't be able to keep your streak of being right going for more than a single post :).

Sony keeping its cards to close its vest makes sense given its history (the backlash from the CGtastic E3 2005 taught them a hard lesson) and its circumstances (I go to game stores quite often and I haven't seen a PS4 in the wild in weeks).

On a related note, I remember a certain poster working himself into hysterics because he saw a screen capture of a low resolution offscreen video of Killzone and convinced himself that Sony had been lying to him and that everything shown before was fake.

If you want to believe Sony isn't going to unveil any 2013 games at E3, suit yourself. I'm sure they will show off many such games. Of course, some of the games will be online only (if you are a small developer in 2014 making an online focused, budget priced game akin to 2007's Warhawk, there is no reason to bother with retail).

So your argument is that Sony will reveal (not release) some games 9 months after their system was released. Whoop. Whoop. Whoop. You have to admit that with this and all the game delays, not everything is looking so positive on the games front.

#42 Posted by F1Lengend (7883 posts) -

Personally I'd rather have a few duds here and there if that means developers get the freedom to do what they want vs Microsofts strategy of squeezing the death out of their franchises until they no longer sell. For every Sony Smash Bro you get TLOU or The Order.

So for that Yoshida gets a pass, but I have to agree with the terrible decisions they made regarding late 2013 titles that should have been designed for PS4. Instead of GoW A for PS3, it should have been something more inspired and for PS4. Development would have been longer but if they started in 2010, release the game in holiday 2014 for PS4. 4 years is more then enough time. Same with GT6, spend an extra year in development, but project it for next gen from the get go and it would also have been ready for fall 2014. Even if (at best) the game would sell 10 mil on PS3 and say, 6.5 mil on PS4, the fact that you are strengthening the PS4s appeal is worth it ten fold over lost sales. Not to mention legs would clearly be stronger on a fresh new system then one that is being phased out. It was actually a double backfire because GT sold really poorly so all that is negated.

Hopefully Sony learns from this and plans accordingly in 2016/2017 when they are deciding on what platform to make their next big games.

#43 Edited by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

@F1Lengend said:

Personally I'd rather have a few duds here and there if that means developers get the freedom to do what they want vs Microsofts strategy of squeezing the death out of their franchises until they no longer sell. For every Sony Smash Bro you get TLOU or The Order.

Well considering the fact that they canned this new IP in favor of a next gen GoW, they aren't all that different from Microsoft who canned Black Tusk's new IP and are having them do a Gears of War game no one wants. I've been saying this for a while but the Sony we loved from last gen is no more. They've canned a lot of B studios, and have found themselves in a position where they have fewer exclusives on the market than MS, and their best selling game in japan is fucking Knack.

Other than that, good to see you finally come around. Carnage on the other hand is a lost cause.

#44 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

@S0lidSnake said:

So it was in development hell after all. And that’s the entire point of my bitching the last few months about these so-called games that we keep hearing will get revealed at the next trade show…. People here are already telling me to wait for E3)…. If you cant even show a short gameplay teaser of a game you’ve been working on for the past 3-4 years then your game is in trouble and definitely not coming out in 2014. Regardless of whether or not it gets unveiled at E3.

The next half of the year is going to be practically empty with AC5,BF5 and COD5 releasing in November as the only big games of the year. God what a depressing line up that is.

I remember fall and holiday 2007… Bioshock, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Halo 3, Uncharted, Ratchet, Mass Effect, CoD 4, Ass Creed 1 …. Soo many new IPs at the start of last gen.

Holiday 2007 was two years into the then current gen. Also, Halo, Ratchet, CoD and Warhawk weren't new IPs...

I knew you wouldn't be able to keep your streak of being right going for more than a single post :).

Sony keeping its cards to close its vest makes sense given its history (the backlash from the CGtastic E3 2005 taught them a hard lesson) and its circumstances (I go to game stores quite often and I haven't seen a PS4 in the wild in weeks).

On a related note, I remember a certain poster working himself into hysterics because he saw a screen capture of a low resolution offscreen video of Killzone and convinced himself that Sony had been lying to him and that everything shown before was fake.

If you want to believe Sony isn't going to unveil any 2013 games at E3, suit yourself. I'm sure they will show off many such games. Of course, some of the games will be online only (if you are a small developer in 2014 making an online focused, budget priced game akin to 2007's Warhawk, there is no reason to bother with retail).

Carnage you really thing I would type Halo 3 and CoD4 and not know they aren't sequels? I was obviously talking about the other games on the list. What next gen new IPs are getting released this holiday season aside from The Order? Destiny? A cross gen game? And yes, i highly doubt that Sony and other publishers will announce their games at E3 and have them ready for release in six months. Especially this gen which has seen many games get delayed again and again. Watch Dogs, MGSV, Destiny, Division, Mirror's Edge, Dragon Age, Witcher 3, The Order, That Ubisoft Car racing game were all revealed last E3. How many made it to the launch last year? Hell, Watch Dogs was revealed two E3s ago. So yes, I am skeptical but only because i know how this industry works. Not every company is Activision and Ubisoft who have 1000 people across 3-6 different studios making sequels every year.

And thats precisely why I dont believe Sony is keeping things close to their chest because of overpromising at E3 2005. They have under-delivered at every press conference since the reveal which was received with a lukewarm reception already by most critics who were wondering where the games were. 5 trade shows and events later and they are still keeping things close to their chest? Why? I'll tell you, they didnt have faith in this game or it wasn't ready. Same goes for every other game. Thats why we didnt see anything from the Order at Gamescom, TGS and the launch event because if what we got last week was the best they have now, they didnt have anything good last year.

And lastly, and this is very important. That KZ vid looked like shit on my phone.

#45 Posted by F1Lengend (7883 posts) -

@F1Lengend said:

Personally I'd rather have a few duds here and there if that means developers get the freedom to do what they want vs Microsofts strategy of squeezing the death out of their franchises until they no longer sell. For every Sony Smash Bro you get TLOU or The Order.

Well considering the fact that they canned this new IP in favor of a next gen GoW, they aren't all that different from Microsoft who canned Black Tusk's new IP and are having them do a Gears of War game no one wants. I've been saying this for a while but the Sony we loved from last gen is no more. They've canned a lot of B studios, and have found themselves in a position where they have fewer exclusives on the market than MS, and their best selling game in japan is fucking Knack.

Other than that, good to see you finally come around. Carnage on the other hand is a lost cause.

One game does not make a trend. That very same studio is still working on a new IP, RAD is making a new IP, Evolution Studios, MM, possibly NDs second game, Japan studios (even if it was Knack) made a new IP. Your problem is that you have the memory of a nat. The 360 destroyed the PS3 in games catalog until 2008. Now when you look back on it no one remembers that, they remember PS3 having the way better library. Thats what MS does, they always come out strong out of the gate before sizzling to a halt. The difference this time is that Sony is in a better position with their studios then they were in 2006.

MS only has a finite amount of studios that eventually the numbers game is going to catch up to them and they are either going to fall hard or have to buy their way out of it, which btw is going to be a more more difficult proposition to developers due to the swing in sales this gen. It will be interesting to see how their strategy in the coming years.

#46 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

So the game was very similar to Destiny and when Destiny was shown they sort of went into a panic.

According to our sources, a majority of layoffs consist of key staff that were working on Santa Monica’s new IP, the project now more or less scrapped into oblivion. While details on the project are scarce, we’ve been told it was a science fiction title not all that far removed from Bungie and Activision’s Destiny, and a very large project at the studio, with sources expressing very positive enthusiasm for the project’s vision and potential. We’ve also been told that after Destiny was formally revealed parts of Santa Monica’s sci-fi project underwent rather significant changes, the original vision apparently quite similar to what Bungie is cooking up, changes applied to distance the two. Based on information supplied, we’re lead to believe the choice to divert Santa Monica’s project away from Destiny comparisons lead to somewhat troubled development, the studio unable to fully get the project back on course, ultimately culminating in its cancellation.

As for Santa Monica’s future, sources reveal that Sony’s prime objective with staff remaining from the now cancelled sci-fi IP is to move them over to development on a next generation God of War (among other things), set to launch at some point on PlayStation 4. While the move is hardly unsurprising, given the expectation that Sony would not abandon one of its most popular intellectual properties, we’re told a number of ex-scifi IP staff moved over aren’t happy about the change and are lamenting the loss of their original project.

#47 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

Carnage exactly what games do you think Sony will have ready for this year? Will they show games at E3, of course but what could they possibly have ready. It seems like Order will be the one big game at the end of the year, you satisfied with that?

The only wild card is Media Molecule, for all we know their game could be ready. But SSM now has nothing soon. ND for sure has nothing ready this year. PD has no GT game. Last Guardian is never coming out :P . Sony Japan probably has some average looking game, that could be ready. Guerrilla, nope. Sucker Punch has a game out soon so nothing for later.

Next year may have some great games but this year is looking bleak.

#48 Edited by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

@F1Lengend said:

@S0lidSnake said:

@F1Lengend said:

Personally I'd rather have a few duds here and there if that means developers get the freedom to do what they want vs Microsofts strategy of squeezing the death out of their franchises until they no longer sell. For every Sony Smash Bro you get TLOU or The Order.

Well considering the fact that they canned this new IP in favor of a next gen GoW, they aren't all that different from Microsoft who canned Black Tusk's new IP and are having them do a Gears of War game no one wants. I've been saying this for a while but the Sony we loved from last gen is no more. They've canned a lot of B studios, and have found themselves in a position where they have fewer exclusives on the market than MS, and their best selling game in japan is fucking Knack.

Other than that, good to see you finally come around. Carnage on the other hand is a lost cause.

One game does not make a trend. That very same studio is still working on a new IP, RAD is making a new IP, Evolution Studios, MM, possibly NDs second game, Japan studios (even if it was Knack) made a new IP. Your problem is that you have the memory of a nat. The 360 destroyed the PS3 in games catalog until 2008. Now when you look back on it no one remembers that, they remember PS3 having the way better library. Thats what MS does, they always come out strong out of the gate before sizzling to a halt. The difference this time is that Sony is in a better position with their studios then they were in 2006.

MS only has a finite amount of studios that eventually the numbers game is going to catch up to them and they are either going to fall hard or have to buy their way out of it, which btw is going to be a more more difficult proposition to developers due to the swing in sales this gen. It will be interesting to see how their strategy in the coming years.

Lol my memory is fine because I know it's not just one game getting the sequel treatment. Let's take a look at Sony's output in the last three years.

  1. - LittleBigPlanet TWO - January 2011
  2. Killzone THREE - Feb 2011
  3. Socom FOUR - April 2011
  4. Motorstorm THREE - May 2011
  5. Infamous TWO - June 2011
  6. Uncharted THREE - November 2011
  7. Ratchet a MILLION - November 2011
  8. Twisted Metal SIX - Feburary 2012
  9. Journey - Non-sequel Game 1 in over a year, but it's not even a video game so not sure if it should be on this list but i will throw you a bone here.
  10. Starhawk or Warhawk TWO - July 2012
  11. PS All Stars Battle Royale - Non-sequel Game 2.
  12. Ratchet FOUR for ONE - November 2012
  13. Sly Cooper FOUR - Feb 2013
  14. God of War Descention (FOUR) - March 2013
  15. The Last of Us - Non-Sequel Game 3
  16. Pupeteer - Non Sequel Game 4
  17. Beyond - Non-Sequel Game 5
  18. Killzone Shadow Fail (FOUR)
  19. Japan's Latest Sensation and U.K's Box office darling KNACK - Non-Sequel Game 6
  20. Gran Turismo SIX - December 2013
  21. Oh and THREE MLB The Show Sequels - If You can use that to prop up Sony's paltry line up this year, i can use it to shit up their previous lineups.

That's 17 sequels (trend enough for you?) and only 6 new IPs, only one of which is an AAA game. Two if you consider Journey a video game. The rest are rated in 70s or below.

The point I was trying to make earlier is not that Sony has become Microsoft all of a sudden. yes, they still own more studios but they aren't what they used to be. They have shut down many studios this gen. Zipper is gone, Liverpool is gone, BigBig Studios gone. They've forced Cambridge to drop their new IP and made them make a PSP Killzone game. Sony Bend had to make an Uncharted sequel on Vita. MM got lucky and got to make a new game which was not advertised at all. Bungie's Destiny on the other hand got a lot of screen time. Go yoshida?

#49 Edited by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -
@S0lidSnake said:

@CarnageHeart said:

@S0lidSnake said:

So it was in development hell after all. And that’s the entire point of my bitching the last few months about these so-called games that we keep hearing will get revealed at the next trade show…. People here are already telling me to wait for E3)…. If you cant even show a short gameplay teaser of a game you’ve been working on for the past 3-4 years then your game is in trouble and definitely not coming out in 2014. Regardless of whether or not it gets unveiled at E3.

The next half of the year is going to be practically empty with AC5,BF5 and COD5 releasing in November as the only big games of the year. God what a depressing line up that is.

I remember fall and holiday 2007… Bioshock, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Halo 3, Uncharted, Ratchet, Mass Effect, CoD 4, Ass Creed 1 …. Soo many new IPs at the start of last gen.

Holiday 2007 was two years into the then current gen. Also, Halo, Ratchet, CoD and Warhawk weren't new IPs...

I knew you wouldn't be able to keep your streak of being right going for more than a single post :).

Sony keeping its cards to close its vest makes sense given its history (the backlash from the CGtastic E3 2005 taught them a hard lesson) and its circumstances (I go to game stores quite often and I haven't seen a PS4 in the wild in weeks).

On a related note, I remember a certain poster working himself into hysterics because he saw a screen capture of a low resolution offscreen video of Killzone and convinced himself that Sony had been lying to him and that everything shown before was fake.

If you want to believe Sony isn't going to unveil any 2013 games at E3, suit yourself. I'm sure they will show off many such games. Of course, some of the games will be online only (if you are a small developer in 2014 making an online focused, budget priced game akin to 2007's Warhawk, there is no reason to bother with retail).

Carnage you really thing I would type Halo 3 and CoD4 and not know they aren't sequels? I was obviously talking about the other games on the list. What next gen new IPs are getting released this holiday season aside from The Order? Destiny? A cross gen game? And yes, i highly doubt that Sony and other publishers will announce their games at E3 and have them ready for release in six months. Especially this gen which has seen many games get delayed again and again. Watch Dogs, MGSV, Destiny, Division, Mirror's Edge, Dragon Age, Witcher 3, The Order, That Ubisoft Car racing game were all revealed last E3. How many made it to the launch last year? Hell, Watch Dogs was revealed two E3s ago. So yes, I am skeptical but only because i know how this industry works. Not every company is Activision and Ubisoft who have 1000 people across 3-6 different studios making sequels every year.

And thats precisely why I dont believe Sony is keeping things close to their chest because of overpromising at E3 2005. They have under-delivered at every press conference since the reveal which was received with a lukewarm reception already by most critics who were wondering where the games were. 5 trade shows and events later and they are still keeping things close to their chest? Why? I'll tell you, they didnt have faith in this game or it wasn't ready. Same goes for every other game. Thats why we didnt see anything from the Order at Gamescom, TGS and the launch event because if what we got last week was the best they have now, they didnt have anything good last year.

And lastly, and this is very important. That KZ vid looked like shit on my phone.

With you, one never knows. As I pointed out (and you ignored) most of the games you named came out two years into the generation.

Some of the games you named were pushed back, but some of them never had release dates (MGS5, The Order). Games getting pushed back doesn't thrill me, but its better than a game shitting the bed upon launch like Battlefield 4, Skyrim and Gran Turismo 5 did. I'd rather a developer ship a game when its done than ship it with a note that says 'Don't worry, we're going to fix it eventually!'.

The big knocks of the PS4 reveal were that they focused too much on games and developers and that Sony didn't show the actual HW or focus enough on multimedia (Microsoft's NFL centric, game-lite unveiling of the Xbone got a much more positive initial response from the media).

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/02/ps4-analysis/

Who knows — maybe it’ll pay off. But if gamers don’t flock to Sony’s rallying cry, what then? There’s a good chance Sony may realize all too late that it was Microsoft that got it right, and that you actually can sell far more game machines into people’s homes by broadening the appeal of the device beyond “the gamer… who lives for gaming.” Sony might find itself having to change course and play catch-up again, like it did when PlayStation 3 showed up empty-handed to the online-gaming party that Xbox Live was throwing in 2006.

And if that does happen, and the future is all-in-one entertainment boxes, then PlayStation 4 might be the last traditional gaming console ever released.

Unfortunately - and this may seem an odd criticism of a games machine - that is all it was. It is only a brilliant games console.

Microsoft's strategy for the Xbox appears to be looking beyond the hardcore, triple-A games launches that keep some members of the family glued to the sofa, and is casting its gaze around the rest of the room. The next-gen Xbox is intended to be part of a wider power grab for the whole family's attention combining hardcore console gaming with casual and social games,network services and music, streaming video from your personal library, network TV and the web.

In short, Microsoft aims to capture the living room by any means necessary. What Sony showed us on Wednesday still seems stuck in the world of the die-hard gamer who will always be first in line for the latest first-person shooter or blockbuster sports game.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/02/20/sony-debuts-new-playstation-4-gaming-console/

The Japanese electronics giant talked about its upcoming game console for the first time and said it will go on sale this holiday season.

But Sony didn't reveal the device itself. Presenters played games that were projected on screens in a converted opera house, but the PlayStations themselves were hidden backstage throughout Wednesday evening's two-hour event.

As for Sony Santa Monica's game, making a sci-fi focused multiplayer only shooter was a mistake. The shooter market in general is insanely competitive, but the multiplayer shooter market is even tougher. Studios with much stronger multiplayer pedigrees are jumping into said arena so I think its reasonable that Sony didn't trust the development team who had never had a multiplayer success to beat out the likes of Bungie and Infinity Ward. Despite all that, the game would have made sense if the Xbone had launched at a more reasonable price, been more capable/easier to develop for and MS sewed up exclusivity for Titanfall and Destiny, but they launched slightly underpowered HW at an insane price, sewed up only Titanfall and Bungie is focusing on the PS4...

The Order looks so impressive I think it would have detracted from Killzone's impact. If you're trying to convince someone to buy a console in its launch window, focusing on the games coming out in that timeframe and playing down the games coming out outside the window makes sense.

Last but not least, its odd that a guy that knows how the industry works doesn't know that watching a low resolution, low framerate offscreen video on a cellphone might not be the best way to experience a game's graphics.

#50 Edited by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

@dvader654 said:

Carnage exactly what games do you think Sony will have ready for this year? Will they show games at E3, of course but what could they possibly have ready. It seems like Order will be the one big game at the end of the year, you satisfied with that?

The only wild card is Media Molecule, for all we know their game could be ready. But SSM now has nothing soon. ND for sure has nothing ready this year. PD has no GT game. Last Guardian is never coming out :P . Sony Japan probably has some average looking game, that could be ready. Guerrilla, nope. Sucker Punch has a game out soon so nothing for later.

Next year may have some great games but this year is looking bleak.

SSM not having a game in the near future is a shame, but if they were working on a multiplayer only scifi game, well, I talked about that in my response to Solid.

Sony of Japan having an average looking game would be unusual for them. Knack's visual design isn't appealing, but games like Gravity Rush, Rain and The Puppeteer are pretty damn easy on the eyes.

Most importantly, Sony has shown a tendency to work with smaller or up and coming independent studios when creating original IP (nods towards Media Molecule's LBP, Ready at Dawn's The Order 1886, From Software's Demon's Souls, Superbot's PS Allstars, Ninja Theory's Heavenly Sword, Comcept's Soul Sacrifice, Factor 5's Lair and Evolution's Motorstorm). If the original game doesn't do well, they part ways, if it does, then a partnership is born (provided the independent studio is interested).

So while I agree with the most of your analysis of the studios you named, I still think Sony is going to have some great 2014 games to show at E3.