id Software seriously needs to rethink their approach to making games

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#1 Posted by Gamer_4_Fun (2561 posts) -

I have been a huge Id fan from back in the day, however going hiatus for a long time, all they came up with is a badly put together game, Rage. The concept was nothing special, but they could have done a far better job. The problem is id is tech minded developer than a entertainment driven, they should need to focus on the entertainment value in order to provide better experience. As a gamer, I couldn't care less how great Rage looks (has to be said, the texture streaming issues is the worst this generation has to offer), it must back those cosmetic beauty with inner substance.

#2 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

There's nothing at all wrong with RAGE other than people expecting it to be some manner of Fallout clone which it clearly is not.

The game is graphically gorgeous and runs at a consistent 60 fps and the core mechanics are excellent; it's actually one of the better playing FPS on the market.

I'll happily take id's games over the vast majority of military shooters and COD wannabes currently choking the market.

#3 Posted by wiouds (5015 posts) -

The level design in Rage is bad. They did not take any innovation from this or last gen in level designs for shooters.

#4 Posted by guynamedbilly (12919 posts) -
I agree. Rage was pretty ugly in close quarters because the textures blurred together so much that if you were walking through the cave, it was hard to tell which way the cave turned. It was pretty ugly in the huge open areas because the skybox was horribly proportioned to the game world. It's really jarring when the sky seems to be moving past faster than the ground level stuff. In the medium sized levels and linear mission areas the game looked great and that's really where it shines. Beyond the graphics though, the game feels halfway done. There's some small bursts of character like the arena host and the weapon designs, but the world overall feels stilted and sterile. Considering that and the way Doom 3 BFG edition played out, id needs to do something about production quality. Hire some new designers or something.
#5 Posted by Teuf_ (30805 posts) -

Gameplay-wise I don't think RAGE was bad, I just didn't like it. Technically it was disaster, at least on the PC when it came out. What a waste of 30 gigs of hard drive space.

Either way it's pretty obvious that id is no longer a leader in terms of putting out widely-acclaimed/highly-influential games or technology. I'm not really sure what they can do to fix it, since the games industry is no longer at a point where Carmack and a few other dudes can just hack together a AAA game.

#6 Posted by Bigboi500 (29081 posts) -

Rage is garbage compared to Fallout 3 and NV. It's over before you know it, has nothing to build on in the game, the racing segments felt like filler, and the ending and lack of a final boss was a complete joke.

FPSs need to evolve more, kind of like Borderlands but with SP, if they want to keep up with deeper games in this modern day.

#7 Posted by nameless12345 (15125 posts) -

They should make Quake Arena II and Doom 4 and Doom 4 should take place on Earth like Doom II did and have great visuals and tons of enemies (old-school style shooter).

Of course the games should be developed for the PC first and foremost, with the console versions in 2nd plan.

That would please the fanbase imo (except for the CoD wimps, but screw them).

#8 Posted by Venom_Raptor (6958 posts) -

No they don't. Your upset you didn't like Rage? Boohoo, Rage was awesome and there next game will be great too.

#9 Posted by Gamer_4_Fun (2561 posts) -

Rage had the worst texture streaming issues i have encountered this generation so far, evertime I turn I see new textues pop up. The shooting mechanics is solid, as you'd expect from id. What Rage lacks is content: Depth, levels (they were only less than a dozen levels, which had different enemy conbinations, they used same level twice) and a proper progression. I had no idea the mission I was playing was the final mission, it felt like amiscellaneous mission design for a lot of other games.

#10 Posted by Canvas_Of_Flesh (4052 posts) -
I actually really enjoyed Rage. I thought the gameplay (apart from the racing) was really well done and fun. From what I could see it looked gorgeous and it had a decent atmosphere. However, I do feel they could have expanded on the world and added more depth. How was I supposed to care about this world when there's hardly any story and it doesn't seem like I'm affecting anything. They probably should have focused less on graphics and more on ways to get the player invested in the world. Also, was I the only one that wished they had used John Goodman to instead voice the main character? How awesome would it have been blowing away mutants while listening to Goodman spout one liners or something.
#11 Posted by ZombieKiller7 (6234 posts) -
Problem is people don't understand this is an FPS not an RPG. There were no streaming problems on my 360, it ran silky smooth and looked great.
#12 Posted by Jackc8 (8500 posts) -
Rage was just about the most mundane shooter I can ever remember playing, going all the way back to the PS1. I traded it in when I was two-thirds done with it and was very happy to get $45 for it.
#13 Posted by sukraj (21797 posts) -

I enjoyed Rage it was a fun shooter.

#14 Posted by Gamer_4_Fun (2561 posts) -
[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]Problem is people don't understand this is an FPS not an RPG. There were no streaming problems on my 360, it ran silky smooth and looked great.

I am talking texture streaming not Frames per second, which is always solid.
#15 Posted by Legendaryscmt (12532 posts) -

As with many games, I think Rage's primary problem was its hype. It was in development for far too long, and during that time people kept building it up. While I thought it was an alright game, Rage was a mixed bag. It had by far some of the best animations in a game and when they loaded, the textures were fantastic. That said, the game became stale half way through, the streaming issues were a constant problem and you could tell there were porting issues.

#16 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

I have been a huge Id fan from back in the day, however going hiatus for a long time, all they came up with is a badly put together game, Rage. The concept was nothing special, but they could have done a far better job. The problem is id is tech minded developer than a entertainment driven, they should need to focus on the entertainment value in order to provide better experience. As a gamer, I couldn't care less how great Rage looks (has to be said, the texture streaming issues is the worst this generation has to offer), it must back those cosmetic beauty with inner substance.

Gamer_4_Fun

I suppose it comes down to a matter of personal preference. Rage wasn't a Doom or Quake redux but I liked it. It was interesting, the shooting action was good and it has replay value for me. I missed a lot of stuff in its open world the first time through, so I'm going to play it again after I finish everything else that's in the queue.

#17 Posted by Archangel3371 (15248 posts) -
Rage was an excellent game. I played it on the 360 and it looked and played great. The only problem with the game was the very lackluster final battle and ending.
#18 Posted by shellcase86 (1934 posts) -
The gameplay in Rage is exceptionally good. The animation is also top-tier stuff. They only lacked vision in the story and use of vehicle IMO.
#19 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

There's nothing at all wrong with RAGE other than people expecting it to be some manner of Fallout clone which it clearly is not.

Grammaton-Cleric

Rage is garbage compared to Fallout 3 and NV.

Bigboi500

Excellent. Excellent.

#20 Posted by AzatiS (7101 posts) -

I agree. Graphics alone cant save the day anymore... Not in 2012 at least.

If they want to go back to PC gaming and give their all to make the big graphical difference , lets say a DOOM 4 title with full DX11 and advanced, next-gen graphix , take advantage of 8GB RAM and 64bit OS most PC gamers have already. Generally PC super capabilities.... they might have a chance to return to their old glory... But as they are now... no , graphix is not enough. I agree with you , they need to reconsider their approach.

#21 Posted by ristactionjakso (5664 posts) -

I bought RAGE for $16 used and had the anarchy edition add ons on it and didn't feel cheated at all. I would have been happy paying $25 for it.

But I do feel bad for the people who payed $60 for it.

#22 Posted by STOPSAMMING (188 posts) -

idsoftware needs john romero back plain and simple.

#23 Posted by coasterguy65 (5828 posts) -

I really enjoyed Rage. I think most of the people that complain about it took the fact that it was promoted as RPG like and expected it to be a Fallout clone. If you look at it for what it is...a Shooter / Racer hybrid with some RPG elements you will find it to be a good game. People thought it was going to be open world with lots of stuff to do in between levels. Where as there really isn't much to do except drive from one area to another.

The wife was playing it the other day and I forgot how nice the game looks. Some people knock the graphics for some reason, but if you just sit back and look at it. It's impressive. The god rays, the heat coming off the torches, the views. Sure it's not Crysis, but it's no slouch either.

#24 Posted by STOPSAMMING (188 posts) -

I really enjoyed Rage. I think most of the people that complain about it took the fact that it was promoted as RPG like and expected it to be a Fallout clone. If you look at it for what it is...a Shooter / Racer hybrid with some RPG elements you will find it to be a good game. People thought it was going to be open world with lots of stuff to do in between levels. Where as there really isn't much to do except drive from one area to another.

The wife was playing it the other day and I forgot how nice the game looks. Some people knock the graphics for some reason, but if you just sit back and look at it. It's impressive. The god rays, the heat coming off the torches, the views. Sure it's not Crysis, but it's no slouch either.

coasterguy65
I dont like idsoftware making iron sight fps games.
#25 Posted by STOPSAMMING (188 posts) -

At most they should do zoom view games like duke nukem forever.

#26 Posted by STOPSAMMING (188 posts) -

They need american mcgee back too.

lol you can still strafe jump in rage like quake though doesnt fit iron sight really though.

#27 Posted by 8-Bitterness (3707 posts) -
Rage had great gameplay, the texture streaming issues are fixed by now and the optimization on the game is by far the best I've seen in a long ass time. It's not a bad game.
#28 Posted by noize_suppress (101 posts) -

Rage was a great game, But it did get really boring near the end.

#29 Posted by UpInFlames (13279 posts) -

id hasn't been relevant since 1999. They've long since been trampled by other FPS developers with better ideas. Well, developers with ideas, period.

#30 Posted by nutcrackr (12361 posts) -
You say they are tech focused yet barely any third party used the Doom 3 engine and I don't think anybody will use the RAGE engine. I personally think the RAGE engine is a horrible side step for id. The game itself is rather ordinary at best. They are going back to Doom 4, but it's going to be very interesting to see how they approach it. Not expecting good things though.
#31 Posted by Teuf_ (30805 posts) -

You say they are tech focused yet barely any third party used the Doom 3 engine and I don't think anybody will use the RAGE engine. I personally think the RAGE engine is a horrible side step for id. nutcrackr


They're not licensing their engine anyore, so you're pretty much guaranteed that nobody else is going to use it. :P

These days with Epic spending the vast majority of their resources on engine licensing, you can't just make a game and say "meh, I guess we'll license the tech too". It has to be something you're really devoted to, and I don't think that was ever the case for id.

#32 Posted by nutcrackr (12361 posts) -
They're not licensing their engine anyore, so you're pretty much guaranteed that nobody else is going to use it. :P

These days with Epic spending the vast majority of their resources on engine licensing, you can't just make a game and say "meh, I guess we'll license the tech too". It has to be something you're really devoted to, and I don't think that was ever the case for id.

Teufelhuhn
So strange considering the insane number of games that used the Quake 3 engine back in the day.
#33 Posted by Kocelot (753 posts) -

There's nothing at all wrong with RAGE other than people expecting it to be some manner of Fallout clone which it clearly is not.

The game is graphically gorgeous and runs at a consistent 60 fps and the core mechanics are excellent; it's actually one of the better playing FPS on the market.

I'll happily take id's games over the vast majority of military shooters and COD wannabes currently choking the market.

Grammaton-Cleric
RAGE was fun at first, but as you progress and beat the story.. you realize it was nothing special. i tried playing it a 2nd time, and was bored halfway through the 2nd mission. it felt so dull.
#34 Posted by Gamer_4_Fun (2561 posts) -
[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]They're not licensing their engine anyore, so you're pretty much guaranteed that nobody else is going to use it. :P

These days with Epic spending the vast majority of their resources on engine licensing, you can't just make a game and say "meh, I guess we'll license the tech too". It has to be something you're really devoted to, and I don't think that was ever the case for id.

nutcrackr
So strange considering the insane number of games that used the Quake 3 engine back in the day.

Ahh...Quake 3...the mother of game engines. I think the last 2 games that pushed it to the max was Jedi Academy and Call of Duty: United Offensive.
#35 Posted by Treflis (11418 posts) -
While I am a Id Software fan, obviously I'll have to say that from a Technical standpoint they did fumble the ball when Rage was released. As for the game itself, it is a solid shooter. Nothing more and nothing less. As for the company, they do look forward within technology and want their games to look as visually great as possible and be able to use different ways to play them. But I'll agree that they should perhaps focus more on the "meat of a game" rather then the look of it as they have recently.
#36 Posted by OB-47 (10908 posts) -

Rage was interesting until it came out. The game was a decent shooter but the world was useless

#37 Posted by Gamer_4_Fun (2561 posts) -
[QUOTE="Treflis"]While I am a Id Software fan, obviously I'll have to say that from a Technical standpoint they did fumble the ball when Rage was released. As for the game itself, it is a solid shooter. Nothing more and nothing less. As for the company, they do look forward within technology and want their games to look as visually great as possible and be able to use different ways to play them. But I'll agree that they should perhaps focus more on the "meat of a game" rather then the look of it as they have recently.

I share the exact sentiments.
#38 Posted by Keaze_ (275 posts) -

Something was off about Rage. It's a good game, but for some reason I didn't like it all that much. And that part in the supermarket I think where you get assaulted from all sides for like 30 minutes... Really? There's not a single article on the shelf why are they all shopping?!?

#39 Posted by Keaze_ (275 posts) -
[QUOTE="Gamer_4_Fun"][QUOTE="Treflis"]While I am a Id Software fan, obviously I'll have to say that from a Technical standpoint they did fumble the ball when Rage was released. As for the game itself, it is a solid shooter. Nothing more and nothing less. As for the company, they do look forward within technology and want their games to look as visually great as possible and be able to use different ways to play them. But I'll agree that they should perhaps focus more on the "meat of a game" rather then the look of it as they have recently.

I share the exact sentiments.

From his interviews I'd say he's become more fond of his collection of expensive cars than the quality of his video games.
#40 Posted by Saladin__7 (149 posts) -
Id is fine.
#41 Posted by Macutchi (3963 posts) -

a developer living off past glories.

both rage and doom 3 were painfully average

#42 Posted by syztem (7702 posts) -

id's demise was initiated by the shift to consoles as the dominant FPS market and the subsequent wussification of the average FPS player.

They can't make games with dynamic movement and weapons anymore because they won't function properly on a gamepad, and also because all of that frightens the current-generation shooter fan who just wants regenerating health and no more than two guns at a time, with the only movement options they have to consider being sprint or crouch.

The result was that they decided to go after graphics and engines full-time, seeing as how they have Carmack, but they couldn't make up for the loss of gameplay mechanics.

#43 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

id's demise was initiated by the shift to consoles as the dominant FPS market and the subsequent wussification of the average FPS player.

They can't make games with dynamic movement and weapons anymore because they won't function properly on a gamepad, and also because all of that frightens the current-generation shooter fan who just wants regenerating health and no more than two guns at a time, with the only movement options they have to consider being sprint or crouch.

The result was that they decided to go after graphics and engines full-time, seeing as how they have Carmack, but they couldn't make up for the loss of gameplay mechanics.

syztem
What exactly are you saying? That they don't know how to code games for consoles?
#44 Posted by Rattlesnake_8 (18330 posts) -

They should make Quake Arena II and Doom 4 and Doom 4 should take place on Earth like Doom II did and have great visuals and tons of enemies (old-school style shooter).

Of course the games should be developed for the PC first and foremost, with the console versions in 2nd plan.

That would please the fanbase imo (except for the CoD wimps, but screw them).

nameless12345
I agree 110%! They these awesome franchises that they aren't doing anything with.. where is a new Quake, Doom and Quake Arena? Going back to the old school FPS days.. I think they could do a great job.
#45 Posted by DraugenCP (8469 posts) -

On a technical level it was rather poor, although the game's visuals were somewhat saved by the interesting, colourful art design. In terms of gameplay, I thought it was absolutely terrific. The gunfights were a mix of FEAR and BioShock, with light tactical combat and tons of crazy weapons. The game's main problem is that it lacked a clear structure, and the open world element felt out-of-place. But in the end I really enjoyed the 20 hours I spent on it (including the new DLC), and I'm sure I'll replay it at one point.

#46 Posted by syztem (7702 posts) -

[QUOTE="syztem"]

id's demise was initiated by the shift to consoles as the dominant FPS market and the subsequent wussification of the average FPS player.

They can't make games with dynamic movement and weapons anymore because they won't function properly on a gamepad, and also because all of that frightens the current-generation shooter fan who just wants regenerating health and no more than two guns at a time, with the only movement options they have to consider being sprint or crouch.

The result was that they decided to go after graphics and engines full-time, seeing as how they have Carmack, but they couldn't make up for the loss of gameplay mechanics.

capaho

What exactly are you saying? That they don't know how to code games for consoles?



That it's not possible to make an authentic id game function properly on a console, and that even if it were possible it wouldn't appeal to the weakling new-breed FPS player.

Hence, they've had to try and come up with a new way of doing things, and have failed outside of creating some more engines.

#47 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

[QUOTE="capaho"]What exactly are you saying? That they don't know how to code games for consoles?syztem



That it's not possible to make an authentic id game function properly on a console, and that even if it were possible it wouldn't appeal to the weakling new-breed FPS player.

Hence, they've had to try and come up with a new way of doing things, and have failed outside of creating some more engines.

I don't get your reasoning on that one. Every game Id makes is an authentic Id game. They are no less capable of coding for consoles than any other game developer. The weakling new breed of gamers were in diapers when Doom was originally released, if they were even around at all back then. I liked Rage, it definitely wasn't Doom, but it was still a good game for me.