@Jacanuk said:
You need to watch South Park, they have a few episodes dealing with what you're saying here, particular the one about the "south park flag" because why is it irrelevant what Rockstar´s intentions are with making their game after all that is what Petit criticizes, exactly like a movie made about slavery isn't racist because they use terms, slang that once was used by people who did believe there was a difference between races and hated other races or with Giantbomb who recently hired two guys and some insane "feminist" went ballistic and claimed that Giantbomb was being huge misogynistic women hating scumbags because they didn't hire women. It´s political correctness and feminismen when its worse.
Rockstar's intentions become irrelevant as soon as they release a product for us to consume. Then it is up to us to appreciate and judge it. It is our experience. Whatever Rockstar feels we should experience becomes pretty meaningless, because we're going to attach our own value to it anyway. I can write 'women are evil and should be dominated by men' on a piece of paper and claim my intentions aren't misogynistic, but as soon as I let others read that piece of paper, they are free to draw whatever conclusions they want. Besides, Petit is lamenting the presence of misogynistic content; she is not suggesting Rockstar is in fact misogynistic. The content is there. It can be defined as such, regardless of intentions. And if it serves its purpose, then it has a reason to be there. Apparently the misogyny didn't serve its purpose in Petit's experience.
The GB thing is something completely different. That appears to be a direct accusation of misogyny, based on the interpretation of hiring patterns, which is questionable at best.
@Jacanuk said:
Ya, i have read American Psycho. and i wouldn´t say the GTA satire is in the same league, GTA is more sunday night with your parents at church compared to what American Psycho does. Also no of course i cant tell anyone else how they should judge satire, but what i can do is look at Petit´s zoning in on one aspect and deciding that because that is close to petit that is to much and a "disgrace"
Again, the comparison was made to point out supposed intention and what that means when it comes to judging a work (very little). This isn't about how much worse the one is compared to the other. And of course you can look at how she structured her argument and point out that it's very personal and biased, but when it comes to things like satire that's pretty much the only thing you can and should do. And as I pointed out, it can be rather valuable. More valuable than leaving it out or expressing yourself in evasive and vague terms. Also, I do not believe she called anything a disgrace.
@Jacanuk said:
I dont let it dictate anything, i just read it for what it is and when someone puts that in the first paragraph, its clearly to get the most important aspect of the game out first, since most people will read the first and then scroll to the bottom and read the score. So it doesn't matter that she has countless good points, the 3 characters which fails, the story which is the weakest by far of any GTA game, the small map used map size compared to previous GTA´s and i would never even have glimpsed if she had mentioned those as a critic points.
The first paragraph summarises the content of the review, so of course it's going to be in there. It's one of her arguments. And compared to the other points she's making it's a relatively small argument. So if you actually read it for what it is (without immediately subjecting it to all your standards), it is one of the smallest arguments at the end of a review. That's what it is. Certainly not unimportant, but also not meant to be as insistently significant as you make it out to be. And it's also a rather isolated argument. You can easily remove it from the text without making any significant corrections, which again proves it does not pervade or dictate the review.
@Jacanuk said:
But it doesn't haunt me, i never let any review dictate what game i should buy or not buy, what does bother me is that Petit is a professional critic and if they ever wants to be actually consider journalists they need to be able to be neutral and not let their own personal agenda´s influence their review.
I know they like to call themselves journalists, but writing a review has very little to do with journalism. Journalists generally refrain from judgement and report on events (hopefully providing multiple perspectives without showing preference), which is impossible when it comes to writing a review. So they will never be considered journalists when writing a review, no matter how neutral they are. In this context they're either editors or critics, not journalists.
@Jacanuk said:
And yes thats my idea of a professional reviewer and there are many out there, Sterling (sometimes) Sessler, Morgan, Rev3games, some on eurogamer, and a lot of local national gaming media. So you might say it doesnt work as argument but clearly it does.
How? You just named a few persons that fit your definition. That doesn't explain to me why Petit should also fit that definition. That doesn't explain to me why your definition should somehow be the standard, as you make it out to be.
@Jacanuk said:
The key is not to keep all emotions away , i am after all not asking for an objective review, i am just expecting someone who get paid to be able to review a game and come with a opinion that might be worth something to a majority and not be filled with their own personal agendas no matter what they might be.
That's fine. I just think your expectations and standards are unrealistic, selective and personal and that you shouldn't present them as common sense and/or facts.
@Jacanuk said:
I am not out to bash Petit, i like petit and i think its sad that she lost the job on gamespot, just because i disagree with some of her reviews doesnt mean i cannot look past them. Also Gamespot didn't pay her for that review in particular since Petit is not a freelancer but was a full employee.
I shouldn't have used those words and I apologise for that, but my point still stands. If you want to criticise Petit for being unprofessional, you should always include the responsible staff aswell. Otherwise you're not being consistent. And fine, I'll rephrase: she did not get paid for specific reviews, but she did get paid to write reviews and since this particular review was published she got paid for doing her job.
@Jacanuk said:
And no of course Petit didn´t say don't play GTA V but what she did was ask for a different path a more "feminist" path for the GTA franchise and that is what i mean would alienate a huge majority of gamers. Would it mean that GTA would fail no because GTA´s name is bigger than any one single game.
Again, that's a vague interpretation of what she wrote. She expressed her disappointment and explained it. That's all she did. That does not imply a request for a more feminist path in later titles. I do not believe (and I feel there's little reason to believe) Petit is that pretentious that she thinks she's in a position to explicitly ask developers to tone it down or include strong female characters.
@Grieverr said:
I'll once again quote @Jacanuk , "Are you really asking if some gamers are sheep? because the answer would be yes of course they are, are all? no of course..."
I believe that you and I, and many others here, have shown to be more than capable of extrapolating what we need out of a review. But I also believe there are many who don't. And, as they say, can we think of the children?!? I'm sure a lot of Gamespot visitors are younger kids who may be, in fact, limited to their analytical capabilities.Thus making a review here a less than appropriate venue for taking a dive into socio-political waters. I would take no issue with a reviewer blogging about it in a separate page.
The many who can't don't go around claiming Petit was being unprofessional. If you can make such claims then I think you're capable of doing what you and I did. Unless you're just echoing other people's words, which would make your opinion very questionable. Look, what I see here is people demanding censorship, demanding specific types of bias to be removed from reviews, demanding reviewers to adhere to the general readership. Ironically, this is what I also see people fighting against when it comes to their precious games: don't censor games, let developers make what they want (i.e. let them implement their bias), don't adhere to casual gamers. People make all these claims solely out of their own interest, not because they have a particularly strong case.
Petit's argument did not dictate her review, did not affect her other arguments and did not significantly affect her appreciation or verdict. It was harmless and rather insignificant in the context of all the other reviews out there. There's little indication (apart from personal preferences) that it does not fall within the freedom of a critic to discuss the issue the way Petit did. Regardless of bias, it can still be a very valuable piece of information. All these factors are generally ignored by the people who question Petit's conduct. They're unwilling to defuse their own exaggerated response. It's not that people oppose bias (after all, there are multiple levels of bias in pretty much all reviews and we don't see such massive backlash against those), it's that people don't like bias when it comes to gender, politics and/or social-cultural themes. It's because people themselves are biased in their preferences and ideas of what should be discussed and because political and gender bias is the most obvious and harmless bias of them all. It's easy to spot, easy to put into perspective and easy to ignore, but that also makes it easy to criticise. You won't make a wrong purchasing choice based on Petit's misogyny argument (and as I pointed out, it can in fact be very useful), but you're much more likely to make a wrong choice based on all the other arguments. First, people don't see the value in bias and second, people don't see all the risks that lie in using general terms.
These reviews aren't written for children. No matter how many underaged children might be playing GTA V, it's a game for adults, people who should be capable of critically assessing their own thoughts. And while Petit's statements were bold and might be beyond the grasp of some children, they were not insulting or rude, nor were they expressing anything that might severely harm or influence a child (in a worse way than the actual game would). Besides, the argument related directly to the game, no matter how personal it might have been. If you really feel Petit shouldn't discuss these issues because of people with limited capabilities, then I don't see why you would want Rockstar to release a game that might be harmful to such people. After all, if they can't properly put Petit's words into perspective, then they probably can't grasp satire either.
Log in to comment