FPS invisible leg mystery

#1 Posted by Trevorbangbang (13 posts) -

In FPS games why is it that you can't see your legs?? I mean am I floating or something and in Crysis I did find it and it was way too hilarious when I moved my reticle around while staring at it, but atleast Prophet did have them...Its really hard to concentrate while playing knowing that most of the FPS characters are legless... !!!

#2 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16452 posts) -

If such a small detail like no visible legs is enough to distract you from a game, you're doing it wrong. Games don't need to be "realistic" to be good.

#3 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (8665 posts) -

It only distracts me during idle times.... Perhaps I'l get curious and look down.

#4 Posted by Hatiko (4505 posts) -

I always check to see if I have legs in fps. I also wonder why I'm holding guns so close to my face. But in the end I guess it doesn't matter cause when I'm playing I don't really think about it.

#5 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (15850 posts) -

I've never noticed it. Far Cry 3 is my favorite FPS and the character has no body (apart from the arms) or cast shadows.

#6 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (8665 posts) -

Its really messed up because in Portal you can't see your legs if you look down but you can see yourself using portals.

#7 Posted by blangenakker (2078 posts) -

One way of seeing it is you're actually a floating camera with a gun hovering just in front of it :P

#8 Edited by Old_Gooseberry (3469 posts) -

I think some of the newer Halo games had legs you could see if you looked straight down while moving. But this isn't important to me either, its a nice extra detail but its also fine if its not there. Maybe even Halo 2 had it, i can't remember for sure.

#9 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (8665 posts) -

Its also weird if you cast a shadow or have a reflection but still have no legs. This was one of my issues with the Bioshock games.

#10 Edited by jasean79 (2316 posts) -

The biggest problem with having no legs is when you're required to walk on thin ledges or land in a certain spot. Too many times I've plummeted to my death because of the legless issue. Think how hard it would be in real life to walk up and down steps even with no legs!

#11 Posted by MWright469 (149 posts) -

No legs never bothered me. In fact, aside from the fact that usually putting legs in is unnecessary, it gives you a better view. Yes, in real life you could easily look down without having your view blocked by your feet, but in a video game, you aren't as nimble as in real life, so looking past your feet would be more difficult. However, with that being said, plenty of games have feet. If I recall correctly, you could see your feet in Halo 4.

I'll tell you what really bothered me... Not being able to see your hands in Timesplitters 2. It would have been fine if the gun was only partially displayed, like in Quake 3 or something, but in TS2, you just saw the full weapon, trigger and handle and all, floating in mid-air. It pretty much ruined the game.

#12 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (8665 posts) -

@ jasean79

This is a big problem in 1st person platformers... Like Portal and Quantum Conundrum and Magrunner and Antichamber, etc.

#13 Edited by jasean79 (2316 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu:

Don't I know it. Portal was a big issue, especially when most of those jumps you were required to make needed perfect timing and precision. A lot of trial and error in that game, fo sho!

#14 Edited by Jacanuk (3720 posts) -

In FPS games why is it that you can't see your legs?? I mean am I floating or something and in Crysis I did find it and it was way too hilarious when I moved my reticle around while staring at it, but atleast Prophet did have them...Its really hard to concentrate while playing knowing that most of the FPS characters are legless... !!!

Actually im concerned with something else missing, but ya i get your point. Even though its a small thing

#15 Edited by Trevorbangbang (13 posts) -

I actually find this "can't see my leg" thing very funny...and during gaming I don't care if I have legs as long as I keep blowing heads off, but then when I think about it, it really does freak me out!! @turtlethetaffer And to the rest of you, liked your comments a lot but I'm having a problem and if anyone could help that would be great...Why can't I reply to you separately??

#16 Posted by DraugenCP (8469 posts) -

I remember when I used the console to gain access to a free cam in Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl, and my character turned out a pair of floating arms holding a gun.

But yeah, I've been noticing this since forever and it has always kind of bothered me. Not to the point of ruining a game experience, but I always like it if my in-game FPS character has an actual body.

#17 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (8665 posts) -

So if you're just a Floating pair of arms... How does the Hit Detection work ?

#18 Edited by Threesixtyci (4275 posts) -

L4D has legs...

L4D2 does not...

Valve's excuse is that removing the first person body allowed them to add more zombies to the hoard cues. Something like 6 more. When asked if this was a console limitation, they wouldn't comment.

#19 Edited by Ish_basic (3901 posts) -

@Threesixtyci: Valve's excuse is that removing the first person body allowed them to add more zombies to the hoard cues. Something like 6 more. When asked if this was a console limitation, they wouldn't comment.

It makes sense. Less to render and animate.

I know there's a Skyrim mod out there called Joy of Perspective that allows you to look down and see your character's body. So people who want that immersion can get it, and people who are pervs can look down at their bewbs when they're bored during cutscenes. Never tried it, so don't know if there's any discernible impact on performance.

#20 Posted by bussinrounds (1977 posts) -

I would assume the Arma games have legs, no ?

#21 Posted by DraugenCP (8469 posts) -

I would assume the Arma games have legs, no ?

Yep.

#22 Edited by MWright469 (149 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu:

Are you serious....?

Because video games aren't the real world, and just because you can't see your legs, doesn't mean other characters in the game can't............

#23 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (8665 posts) -

@ MWright469

I think it was a Valid Question.

#24 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (15850 posts) -

Most FPS games key in towards the center of the screen or the crosshairs if they're present. After a bit, finding the center becomes second nature to the point aids are not needed:

#25 Edited by Pffrbt (6367 posts) -

If such a small detail like no visible legs is enough to distract you from a game, you're doing it wrong. Games don't need to be "realistic" to be good.

FPS already have a problem with making the player feel like they're just a floating camera, making the legs invisible contributes to the problem.

#26 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16452 posts) -

@Pffrbt: How is it a problem again? When I play a game, I'm not looking for hyper realism. I'm looking to be entertained.

#27 Posted by Pffrbt (6367 posts) -

@Pffrbt: How is it a problem again? When I play a game, I'm not looking for hyper realism. I'm looking to be entertained.

It's a problem because it's difficult to get invested in playing a character when you aren't actually playing a character since you're just a floating camera with arms stapled on. It's one of the many reasons why FPS is a boring genre.

#28 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16452 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Um. Really? I don't have that issue. Like, at all. I think it's really nitpicky to say that it "breaks immersion", especially sicne you almost never look down in FPS's anyways.

#29 Posted by Pffrbt (6367 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer: It isn't though since I have a genuinely difficult time getting into a game if I don't feel like I'm playing as a character.

#30 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16452 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Soooooo you're being incredibly nitpicky. Good for you.

#31 Edited by Pffrbt (6367 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Soooooo you're being incredibly nitpicky. Good for you.

Not really. I just like playing as a character in a video game and not a floating camera.

#32 Edited by Ariabed (1099 posts) -

@Pffrbt: IMO first person games are the most immersive cos it's like your seeing the game world through your own eyes almost like VR, the camera is your virtual head. I mean when your walking along round the shops or whatever how often do you look down at your legs, not much I bet, you look straight ahead and all around your environment. But I must admit sometimes I like to see my character, like in skyrim when I get a cool armour I will switch to 3rd person view for a bit then go back to FP. Also with racing games I like to see the car I'm driving,so I use close chase camera and often have side view peeks at the car as I'm driving, but then I like the cockpit view for a more realistic view and feel, and I drive a lot better in cockpit view.

#33 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16452 posts) -

@Pffrbt: You're letting something like lack of legs in avideo game "break immersion" for you? Really? You do know what a video game is right? an unrealistic entertainment form?

Let me just say again that if you're playing an FPS correctly, you pretty much will never look down. It's why most devs don't put legs on their FPS characters.

#34 Posted by groowagon (2740 posts) -

@jasean79 said:

The biggest problem with having no legs is when you're required to walk on thin ledges or land in a certain spot. Too many times I've plummeted to my death because of the legless issue. Think how hard it would be in real life to walk up and down steps even with no legs!

i don't see that as an issue, since the weight (or more precisely, collision detection) of the character is rarely actually on it's feet even if the feet are modelled and rendered. for example, in a game where you have feet rendered, you could stand on an edge with your other foot firmly standing on a thin air while only the other one is touching ground. therefor, you need some trial and error to find the spot at wich you cross the edge in any case.

#35 Edited by groowagon (2740 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@turtlethetaffer said:

@Pffrbt: Soooooo you're being incredibly nitpicky. Good for you.

Not really. I just like playing as a character in a video game and not a floating camera.

you are still moving the same collision detection box around the map wether the character is rendered to you or not. in multiplayers, you are being rendered to other players.

also, did you know that in third person games you also play in a floating space? the area behind the camera is not being rendered when it's not visible.

#36 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16452 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@turtlethetaffer said:

@Pffrbt: Soooooo you're being incredibly nitpicky. Good for you.

Not really. I just like playing as a character in a video game and not a floating camera.

you are still moving the same collision detection box around the map wether the character is rendered to you or not. in multiplayers, you are being rendered to other players.

also, did you know that in third person games you also play in a floating space? the area behind the camera is not being rendered when it's not visible.

I think the more important point here is that this is such a small detail that it really does not (or should not) matter. Like I said, if you're playing the majority of FPS's right, you won't be looking down when you play. And to flat out deny a whole genre because one small detail "breaks immersion" is really silly.

#37 Posted by Pffrbt (6367 posts) -

@ariabed: "IMO first person games are the most immersive cos it's like your seeing the game world through your own eyes almost like VR, the camera is your virtual head."

I feel the opposite. There is no other sensory feedback beyond visuals, and the inability to see any of my character just makes me feel like I'm not even playing one.

"I mean when your walking along round the shops or whatever how often do you look down at your legs, not much I bet, you look straight ahead and all around your environment."

Difference being that I have a variety of other senses working that make the experience feel real.

@Pffrbt: You're letting something like lack of legs in avideo game "break immersion" for you? Really? You do know what a video game is right? an unrealistic entertainment form?

This isn't about realism. This is about immersion. I can't get invested in playing a character I can't see. It's part of why first person shooters are criminally uninteresting except for the rare cases where one manages to have fun gameplay, like L4D2 or Portal.


you are still moving the same collision detection box around the map wether the character is rendered to you or not. in multiplayers, you are being rendered to other players.

Cool, I don't care. I can't see my character so I don't feel like I'm playing one.

"also, did you know that in third person games you also play in a floating space? the area behind the camera is not being rendered when it's not visible."
Doesn't matter, I can see my in game avatar, so I feel like I have an actual connection to the game world.

#38 Posted by Ariabed (1099 posts) -

@Pffrbt: so unless you can look at your characters ass you can't feel the immersion, fair enough each to their own I guess :)

#39 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16452 posts) -

@Pffrbt: So, to you, the lack of legs is what makes FPS's boring. That's... Yeah that's pretty ridiculous.

#40 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (8665 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer

Its not his fault... He can't choose what he can or can't find immersive.

But if its a deal breaker (for anygame at all) then yeah.... Absolutely Ridiculous !

@Pffrbt

Its called Proprioception, its how your brain keeps track of all your "components" I'm pretty sure it even applies to your internal organs. Sadly some people can lose this ability, not in a major way... Its usually just a hand or a foot, it can lead to akward, yet innocent groping.... And even guilt free Masterbation :D (it feels like someone elses hand so theres no shame at all) !

#41 Edited by Pffrbt (6367 posts) -

@Pffrbt: So, to you, the lack of legs is what makes FPS's boring. That's... Yeah that's pretty ridiculous.

No, the lack of legs is what contributes to FPS's being difficult to become invested in as I don't feel like I'm playing as a character and I don't feel like I have a connection to the game world. The incredibly boring and uninteresting gameplay is what makes FPS's boring.

Its called Proprioception, its how your brain keeps track of all your "components" I'm pretty sure it even applies to your internal organs. Sadly some people can lose this ability, not in a major way... Its usually just a hand or a foot, it can lead to akward, yet innocent groping.... And even guilt free Masterbation :D (it feels like someone elses hand so theres no shame at all) !

Ok.

#42 Posted by zeroyaoi (1839 posts) -

Who needs legs when you can float. :P

#43 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16452 posts) -

@Pffrbt: I never understood the need for immersion. People act like it's such a deal breaker if a game isn't "immersive" but Jesus Christ a game can in fact be good without being highly immersive.

#44 Posted by Pffrbt (6367 posts) -

@Pffrbt: I never understood the need for immersion. People act like it's such a deal breaker if a game isn't "immersive" but Jesus Christ a game can in fact be good without being highly immersive.

To me, "immersion" isn't about just having a convincing attention to detail for realism, it's about having an cohesive overall game world and mechanics, and gameplay that hooks you so you're really drawn into the game and become completely invested.

#45 Posted by madgame23 (175 posts) -

FPS games in general have the whole body thing wrong. Looking down in general you should see more than just legs and feet! where is the guys stomach and other body parts? You should see a nose too, heck your vision should be shaped like the visor on a pair of diving goggles really with the outline of your nose in the middle. Its just a game though and its an interpretation. I believe the youtuber Driftor made a video about the orientation of your vision in games, it actually shows up above where your game avatar is standing, which is why guys seem to shoot you from behind cover and you only see the tops of their heads. Maybe a true revision of FPS in general would involve actually making the view point and other stuffs play from the eye level of the character.