'Dead or Alive fans demanded larger breasts' says DoA5 director

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#151 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -

lol capaho vs GGD part 2.

The Blah Blah Blah post might be grounds for a suspension if i were to report it. But i see the PGD regulars here are going to ruin his next few days so I'll stand down.

S0lidSnake
When the quotes I'm using are way long and seen just a post or two up, I'll change them to "blahblahblah" and "yakyakyak" to save space. Is this verboten?
#152 Posted by c_rakestraw (14625 posts) -

When the quotes I'm using are way long and seen just a post or two up, I'll change them to "blahblahblah" and "yakyakyak" to save space. Is this verboten? El_Zo1212o

Maybe in the old days, but now? Nah.

#153 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18420 posts) -

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]When the quotes I'm using are way long and seen just a post or two up, I'll change them to "blahblahblah" and "yakyakyak" to save space. Is this verboten? c_rake

Maybe in the old days, but now? Nah.

Don't you hate it when people type sh*t with an accented "ì" and you (being a mod) have to squint to see if they used a normal "i" or an accented one?

#154 Posted by c_rakestraw (14625 posts) -

Don't you hate it when people type sh*t with an accented "ì" and you (being a mod) have to squint to see if they used a normal "i" or an accented one?Black_Knight_00

Yeah, it's the worst. What's so hard about putting an asterisk in? I mean come on.

#155 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

[QUOTE="capaho"]

Just to clarify the situation, are you a high school student?

As for my comments on Japanese culture, they are not based on a videogame. I lived there for 15 years.

El_Zo1212o

From what ages?

The specific age range doesn't matter. I ask because he comes across to me as an insecure high school student. He reacts to my comments in a manner that is not indicative of a confident, mature adult. The last thing I want to do is antagonize a high school student in a forum like this.

#156 Posted by c_rakestraw (14625 posts) -

The specific age range doesn't matter. I ask because he comes across to me as an insecure high school student. He reacts to my comments in a manner that is not indicative of a confident, mature adult. The last thing I want to do is antagonize a high school student in a forum like this.capaho

Uh huh.

And you know what a confident, mature adult looks like, do you?

#157 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18420 posts) -

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Don't you hate it when people type sh*t with an accented "ì" and you (being a mod) have to squint to see if they used a normal "i" or an accented one?c_rake

Yeah, it's the worst. What's so hard about putting an asterisk in? I mean come on.

I don't envy you. I'd just mod them anyway :P Then again, I'm a bad, bad person.
#158 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

My tone, as you call it, was honest and sincere. Yes, I got carried away from it, but I was passionate about the subject. A little too passionate, perhaps, but nevertheless, my tone was correct and accurate for the most part. I did what I had to do. Simple as that. And you don't like it, which is fine by me, because I sure don't care for apologizing for what I said back then.

The problem that you have is that you try a bit too hard and when it's not doing so well for you, you do results to veiled insults and the like in order to try and aggravate some of us on it. It all comes to us not seeing your point of the argument, because your reasoning behind them just isn't good enough. Yes, we are here for civil discussion and participation, but insults and slander is simply not needed to make your point across.

And for the record, I don't take myself seriously at all. And I don't believe Grammaton and El Zo do either.

Metamania

Perhaps you have somewhat of the same problem that you say I do. You don't always come across the way that you think you do. I accept that you were honest and sincere in the Sleeping Dogs discussion, as was I, but your tone lacked civility at times.

My problem, as I see it, is that I'm not trying to do anything other than express my own viewpoint in my usual style. The judgements I make about games are entirely subjective. I think the confusion over style and context comes from the fact that others are looking for or otherwise expecting an argument or a debate where I am not. That is precisely why I generally don't respond to the points others make in an effort to dispute what I've said. I think it's pointless to debate subjective evaluations of games. Being able to discuss differences of opinion without personalizing them is what distinguishes civil discourse from argument or acrimony.

As I have stated several times already, it is never my intention to insult or offend, but I realize my wry style can be easily misinterpreted by some. Beyond that, insult is a reactive emotion, it comes from within. There is nothing in a discussion like this that is worth attempting to insult others over or feeling insulted about.

#159 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

lol capaho vs GGD part 2.

The Blah Blah Blah post might be grounds for a suspension if i were to report it. But i see the PGD regulars here are going to ruin his next few days so I'll stand down.

S0lidSnake

The Blah Blah Blah post was merely an attempt at humor.

#160 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"][QUOTE="capaho"]

Just to clarify the situation, are you a high school student?

As for my comments on Japanese culture, they are not based on a videogame. I lived there for 15 years.

capaho

From what ages?

The specific age range doesn't matter. I ask because he comes across to me as an insecure high school student. He reacts to my comments in a manner that is not indicative of a confident, mature adult. The last thing I want to do is antagonize a high school student in a forum like this.

It matters very much. If you were raised in Japan from ages 0-15 then you were likely not studying social norms too closely.
#161 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -
...insult is a reactive emotion, it comes from within... capaho
You're a moron. [spoiler] I'm hoping the mods realize I'm making a point here...*nervous* [/spoiler]
#162 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

[QUOTE="capaho"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] From what ages?El_Zo1212o

The specific age range doesn't matter. I ask because he comes across to me as an insecure high school student. He reacts to my comments in a manner that is not indicative of a confident, mature adult. The last thing I want to do is antagonize a high school student in a forum like this.

It matters very much. If you were raised in Japan from ages 0-15 then you were likely not studying social norms too closely.

Ah, I thought you were trying to clarify my high school student question for some reason.

As for my time in Japan, it was very recent and I still have ongoing business and personal interests there.

#163 Posted by c_rakestraw (14625 posts) -

Then again, I'm a bad, bad person.Black_Knight_00

Aren't we all.

#164 Posted by Metamania (11997 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

My tone, as you call it, was honest and sincere. Yes, I got carried away from it, but I was passionate about the subject. A little too passionate, perhaps, but nevertheless, my tone was correct and accurate for the most part. I did what I had to do. Simple as that. And you don't like it, which is fine by me, because I sure don't care for apologizing for what I said back then.

The problem that you have is that you try a bit too hard and when it's not doing so well for you, you do results to veiled insults and the like in order to try and aggravate some of us on it. It all comes to us not seeing your point of the argument, because your reasoning behind them just isn't good enough. Yes, we are here for civil discussion and participation, but insults and slander is simply not needed to make your point across.

And for the record, I don't take myself seriously at all. And I don't believe Grammaton and El Zo do either.

capaho

Perhaps you have somewhat of the same problem that you say I do. You don't always come across the way that you think you do. I accept that you were honest and sincere in the Sleeping Dogs discussion, as was I, but your tone lacked civility at times.

My problem, as I see it, is that I'm not trying to do anything other than express my own viewpoint in my usual style. The judgements I make about games are entirely subjective. I think the confusion over style and context comes from the fact that others are looking for or otherwise expecting an argument or a debate where I am not. That is precisely why I generally don't respond to the points others make in an effort to dispute what I've said. I think it's pointless to debate subjective evaluations of games. Being able to discuss differences of opinion without personalizing them is what distinguishes civil discourse from argument or acrimony.

As I have stated several times already, it is never my intention to insult or offend, but I realize my wry style can be easily misinterpreted by some. Beyond that, insult is a reactive emotion, it comes from within. There is nothing in a discussion like this that is worth attempting to insult others over or feeling insulted about.

So, in other words, what you're really saying is "yak yak yak, blah blah blah", hoping that I should let you win your argument and think you have also triumphed over the rest of us, myself included?

Yeah...no. Just no. Sorry. Doesn't fly.

Also, two more things to clear up; my tone didn't lack civiliy. Don't know where you got that or how you seem to accept that, because that just came out of nowhere. When I'm on the boards, I am calm and I write when I can in that state of mind and when I write on here, I try to offer the best opinion that I can without trying to insult or offend and when a dicussion or question comes up from someone else, I'll do my best to answer it. But I've been here since the days when Gamespot opened and I was also chosen as one of the first two assistant moderators for the Gamespot forums, including this one. So I know what's needed to stay level-headed and cool, although, as I said, my passion can get the best of me, as well as my anger, so it happens.

Second, in regards to you accepting something; you only accept what you believe and say and not from the rest of us. As I said, when things don't work well in your favor, here you come, angry that no one believes what you say and have insulted, like how you are asking Grammaton if he's a high school student and not an adult. That implies, to me, that don't think of him as intelligent or not on your level. But clearly, he has stated himself pretty well around here. As I told someone else, we don't have to like his opinions at all, but we respect the heck out of him for it. At least I do, can't speak for the rest of you guys on it though, but I do. So when it comes down to this Dead Or Alive 5 breast argument happening, some of us are great, others are not. Clearly, you are not.

Just offering my two cents.

#165 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

Just to clarify the situation, are you a high school student?

As for my comments on Japanese culture, they are not based on a videogame. I lived there for 15 years.

capaho

Well Capaho, were I a high school student that would be pretty embarrassing for you given that I've consistently trounced your feeble arguments with relative ease.

But of course your question wasn't really a question at all. It was more posturing from somebody who, ironically, accuses everyone else of participating in the very type of behavior you continue to exhibit each and every time you put word to screen.

And really, while insulting my intelligence probably gives you some manner of base gratification, why not dismantle my arguments with your brilliant rhetoric and mature sense of logic if you really are the vastly superior being you claim? I've literally given you numerous attempts to challenge me on an intellectual level and you've failed miserably each and every time, usually resorting to insults or asking moronic rhetorical questions like this.

I mean, think about it. I've specifically alluded to the fact that I currently teach and you even made some offhanded remark about my lecture circuit so clearly your question was an insult, not an inquiry. You keep playing these infantile games using the basest of psychoanalytical jabber when you are the one clearly suffering from a severe lack of confidence.

Do you remember in that Sleeping Dogs thread where, out of the blue, you decided to talk about your damaged hands because you were supposedly some badass street fighter back in the day and we were all supposed to be impressed? (We weren't by the way)

You bring in that level of silliness and I'm the high school students?

Did you ditch school the day they taught irony?

And honestly, take a gander around you: not a single person in this thread is defending you. Nobody agrees with you yet you cling to this notion that it's everyone else's misunderstanding.

But I'm the child, right?

If you have any aspirations to stay in this forum you should just stop now. Not only have you repeatedly broken the TOS but you have managed to offend and annoy some of the very best people on this board.

And I don't care if you lived in Japan or not, your comments were a gross generalization and came off as racist. I wasn't aware that living somewhere gets you a Get out of Bigotry Free card.

#166 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

The Blah Blah Blah post was merely an attempt at humor.

capaho

Then I guess we can add that to a growing list of things you are bad at.

#167 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

...insult is a reactive emotion, it comes from within... capaho

An insult isn't an emotion at all.

It's an emotional response, often employed in lieu of a more logical rebuttal.

Also, all emotion comes from within as emotion does not occupy the physical realm and lacks tactility, which is why we denote it as internal conflict.

Pretty good for a high school student, eh?

#168 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] I agree on the games you mentioned, except one: aside from Cammy's swimsuit I can't think of a single sexualized character in Street Fighter. Would you please make some examples?Black_Knight_00

Chun Lis classic outfit is pretty skimpy, especially as it pertains to length.

Juris outfit is also very revealing and Sakura is basically prototypical Japanese School Girl Fetish fodder.

Elena from SFIII is sexualized as well.

Close enough I guess, but none of them scream sex the way a Kasumi, a Chrissie, a Sophitia or a Mai Shiranui does. I agree that the line is a blurry one, but I feel I could safely say that Street Fighter characters are more "beautiful" than sexually charged. At the very least when compared to the other games mentioned, SF is the smallest "offender"

I think part of that has to do with the art style because SF looks like a comic book where by sharp contrast DOA and Tekken look far more realistic.

But from a purely objective POV the outfits and titillation are on the same level in all of these games.

#169 Posted by skrat_01 (33767 posts) -

[QUOTE="skrat_01"] Sure, many games do, I'm certainly not excluding those games (though I'd say Tekken and SF don't necessarily stray into this territory) Soul Calibur especially is as much about hypersexualization as DOA; the difference being DOA is a franchise that stemmed into the 'Extreme Beach Volley Ball' territory, which outright is minigames and video-game soft porn - as you mentioned. DOA certainly isn't the rule when it comes to video game soft porn, that's for sure. The fighting genre isn't exclusive to this either. What I like about the DOA series is that it's outright honest about its intentions, and isn't trying to masquerade as something that it isn't, same with Soul Cailbur. Other games like Bayonetta fall into that category too; though that's all very much part of its outrageous camp humour. Grammaton-Cleric

What's interesting about DOA5 is that I think they were more concerned with making a legitimate fighter than facilitating fetishistic fantasies.

The mistake was taking the criticisms about the breasts seriously and worse, publically admitting they did so.

DOA5 is a fantastic game and frankly it doesn't require this type of superficial content.

Fair enough, makes perfect sense, though I'd say the titillation has become a real part of the DOA franchise, enough for the fanbase to be clamouring for it and it to be identified in that regard.
#170 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

So, in other words, what you're really saying is "yak yak yak, blah blah blah", hoping that I should let you win your argument and think you have also triumphed over the rest of us, myself included?

Yeah...no. Just no. Sorry. Doesn't fly.

Also, two more things to clear up; my tone didn't lack civiliy. Don't know where you got that or how you seem to accept that, because that just came out of nowhere. When I'm on the boards, I am calm and I write when I can in that state of mind and when I write on here, I try to offer the best opinion that I can without trying to insult or offend and when a dicussion or question comes up from someone else, I'll do my best to answer it. But I've been here since the days when Gamespot opened and I was also chosen as one of the first two assistant moderators for the Gamespot forums, including this one. So I know what's needed to stay level-headed and cool, although, as I said, my passion can get the best of me, as well as my anger, so it happens.

Second, in regards to you accepting something; you only accept what you believe and say and not from the rest of us. As I said, when things don't work well in your favor, here you come, angry that no one believes what you say and have insulted, like how you are asking Grammaton if he's a high school student and not an adult. That implies, to me, that don't think of him as intelligent or not on your level. But clearly, he has stated himself pretty well around here. As I told someone else, we don't have to like his opinions at all, but we respect the heck out of him for it. At least I do, can't speak for the rest of you guys on it though, but I do. So when it comes down to this Dead Or Alive 5 breast argument happening, some of us are great, others are not. Clearly, you are not.

Just offering my two cents.

Metamania

Wow! After your previous reply you actually had me thinking it was worth engaging in a discussion with you.

#171 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

Well Capaho, were I a high school student that would be pretty embarrassing for you given that I've consistently trounced your feeble arguments with relative ease.

But of course your question wasn't really a question at all. It was more posturing from somebody who, ironically, accuses everyone else of participating in the very type of behavior you continue to exhibit each and every time you put word to screen.

And really, while insulting my intelligence probably gives you some manner of base gratification, why not dismantle my arguments with your brilliant rhetoric and mature sense of logic if you really are the vastly superior being you claim? I've literally given you numerous attempts to challenge me on an intellectual level and you've failed miserably each and every time, usually resorting to insults or asking moronic rhetorical questions like this.

I mean, think about it. I've specifically alluded to the fact that I currently teach and you even made some offhanded remark about my lecture circuit so clearly your question was an insult, not an inquiry. You keep playing these infantile games using the basest of psychoanalytical jabber when you are the one clearly suffering from a severe lack of confidence.

Do you remember in that Sleeping Dogs thread where, out of the blue, you decided to talk about your damaged hands because you were supposedly some badass street fighter back in the day and we were all supposed to be impressed? (We weren't by the way)

You bring in that level of silliness and I'm the high school students?

Did you ditch school the day they taught irony?

And honestly, take a gander around you: not a single person in this thread is defending you. Nobody agrees with you yet you cling to this notion that it's everyone else's misunderstanding.

But I'm the child, right?

If you have any aspirations to stay in this forum you should just stop now. Not only have you repeatedly broken the TOS but you have managed to offend and annoy some of the very best people on this board.

And I don't care if you lived in Japan or not, your comments were a gross generalization and came off as racist. I wasn't aware that living somewhere gets you a Get out of Bigotry Free card.

Grammaton-Cleric

It's a pity that you have so little confidence in yourself. Stop being a pretender and be the real deal.

#172 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Well Capaho, were I a high school student that would be pretty embarrassing for you given that I've consistently trounced your feeble arguments with relative ease.

But of course your question wasn't really a question at all. It was more posturing from somebody who, ironically, accuses everyone else of participating in the very type of behavior you continue to exhibit each and every time you put word to screen.

And really, while insulting my intelligence probably gives you some manner of base gratification, why not dismantle my arguments with your brilliant rhetoric and mature sense of logic if you really are the vastly superior being you claim? I've literally given you numerous attempts to challenge me on an intellectual level and you've failed miserably each and every time, usually resorting to insults or asking moronic rhetorical questions like this.

I mean, think about it. I've specifically alluded to the fact that I currently teach and you even made some offhanded remark about my lecture circuit so clearly your question was an insult, not an inquiry. You keep playing these infantile games using the basest of psychoanalytical jabber when you are the one clearly suffering from a severe lack of confidence.

Do you remember in that Sleeping Dogs thread where, out of the blue, you decided to talk about your damaged hands because you were supposedly some badass street fighter back in the day and we were all supposed to be impressed? (We weren't by the way)

You bring in that level of silliness and I'm the high school students?

Did you ditch school the day they taught irony?

And honestly, take a gander around you: not a single person in this thread is defending you. Nobody agrees with you yet you cling to this notion that it's everyone else's misunderstanding.

But I'm the child, right?

If you have any aspirations to stay in this forum you should just stop now. Not only have you repeatedly broken the TOS but you have managed to offend and annoy some of the very best people on this board.

And I don't care if you lived in Japan or not, your comments were a gross generalization and came off as racist. I wasn't aware that living somewhere gets you a Get out of Bigotry Free card.

capaho

It's a pity that you have so little confidence in yourself. Stop being a pretender and be the real deal.

Are you delusional? Are you reading some alternate reality forum where your replies make sense? Unless you're stealth trolling with remarks like that.
#173 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

lol Id like to nominate capaho as the worst new poster of the year.

go to gamefaqs or system wars, this is not forum for you.

#174 Posted by c_rakestraw (14625 posts) -

It's a pity that you have so little confidence in yourself. Stop being a pretender and be the real deal.capaho

How's about you quit it with these stupid little games of yours instead? Maybe, I don't know -- actually respond, for a change?

#175 Posted by syztem (7703 posts) -

It's funny how many plebeians automatically consider sexualization to be inherently negative, or how offended people of the Christ--western world get when they see some skin.

Would this thread pop up if it was revealed that Mortal Kombat fans demanded more violence?

#176 Posted by Black_Knight_00 (18420 posts) -

It's funny how many plebeians automatically consider sexualization to be inherently negative, or how offended people of the Christ--western world get when they see some skin.

Would this thread pop up if it was revealed that Mortal Kombat fans demanded more violence?

syztem

Before you go calling people plebeians make sure you understand what the thread is about

#177 Posted by SirWander (5176 posts) -

makes sense, as the DoA games are just breast jiggle simulators in the first place.

#178 Posted by Metamania (11997 posts) -

makes sense, as the DoA games are just breast jiggle simulators in the first place.

SirWander

While I agree that sex does help selling a videogame every now and then, DOA is far beyond that.

DOA always had a system that's easy to learn, but hard to master. It can also be very complex at times, especially with the move lists and what each character can do.

Some possess reversals and throws that can lead into another throw or simply do combo throws. There's also the rock-paper-scissor format and it's hard to counter the move sometimes, simply because you may not be fast enough to counter it unless you know how every character's punch and kick looks like. You would only know that, however, if you spend countless hours on the game alone and know every detail about the game.

Some fighters can be button mashers, but I argue that almost every fighting game can have in-depth, strategic combat if done correctly. DOA definitely has depth and complexity in its fighting engine and thus, I feel it is more than just a "breast jiggle simulator".

#179 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

Well Capaho, were I a high school student that would be pretty embarrassing for you given that I've consistently trounced your feeble arguments with relative ease.

But of course your question wasn't really a question at all. It was more posturing from somebody who, ironically, accuses everyone else of participating in the very type of behavior you continue to exhibit each and every time you put word to screen.

And really, while insulting my intelligence probably gives you some manner of base gratification, why not dismantle my arguments with your brilliant rhetoric and mature sense of logic if you really are the vastly superior being you claim? I've literally given you numerous attempts to challenge me on an intellectual level and you've failed miserably each and every time, usually resorting to insults or asking moronic rhetorical questions like this.

I mean, think about it. I've specifically alluded to the fact that I currently teach and you even made some offhanded remark about my lecture circuit so clearly your question was an insult, not an inquiry. You keep playing these infantile games using the basest of psychoanalytical jabber when you are the one clearly suffering from a severe lack of confidence.

Do you remember in that Sleeping Dogs thread where, out of the blue, you decided to talk about your damaged hands because you were supposedly some badass street fighter back in the day and we were all supposed to be impressed? (We weren't by the way)

You bring in that level of silliness and I'm the high school students?

Did you ditch school the day they taught irony?

And honestly, take a gander around you: not a single person in this thread is defending you. Nobody agrees with you yet you cling to this notion that it's everyone else's misunderstanding.

But I'm the child, right?

If you have any aspirations to stay in this forum you should just stop now. Not only have you repeatedly broken the TOS but you have managed to offend and annoy some of the very best people on this board.

And I don't care if you lived in Japan or not, your comments were a gross generalization and came off as racist. I wasn't aware that living somewhere gets you a Get out of Bigotry Free card.

Grammaton-Cleric

It is precisely comments like that that leave me with the impression that you are an insecure high school student. It is simply not a mature way to respond to criticism or disagreement. I engaged in this discussion to begin with because I was motivated by your hypocrisy in admonishing others to stop hurling insults, which is something you do with wreckless abandon. If you really are a teacher, as you claim, the level of maturity you exhibit here is quite disconcerting.

#180 Posted by mooooo99 (1247 posts) -

i am all for this. perhaps even a new DOA Paradise type game as well.

#181 Posted by Metamania (11997 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Well Capaho, were I a high school student that would be pretty embarrassing for you given that I've consistently trounced your feeble arguments with relative ease.

But of course your question wasn't really a question at all. It was more posturing from somebody who, ironically, accuses everyone else of participating in the very type of behavior you continue to exhibit each and every time you put word to screen.

And really, while insulting my intelligence probably gives you some manner of base gratification, why not dismantle my arguments with your brilliant rhetoric and mature sense of logic if you really are the vastly superior being you claim? I've literally given you numerous attempts to challenge me on an intellectual level and you've failed miserably each and every time, usually resorting to insults or asking moronic rhetorical questions like this.

I mean, think about it. I've specifically alluded to the fact that I currently teach and you even made some offhanded remark about my lecture circuit so clearly your question was an insult, not an inquiry. You keep playing these infantile games using the basest of psychoanalytical jabber when you are the one clearly suffering from a severe lack of confidence.

Do you remember in that Sleeping Dogs thread where, out of the blue, you decided to talk about your damaged hands because you were supposedly some badass street fighter back in the day and we were all supposed to be impressed? (We weren't by the way)

You bring in that level of silliness and I'm the high school students?

Did you ditch school the day they taught irony?

And honestly, take a gander around you: not a single person in this thread is defending you. Nobody agrees with you yet you cling to this notion that it's everyone else's misunderstanding.

But I'm the child, right?

If you have any aspirations to stay in this forum you should just stop now. Not only have you repeatedly broken the TOS but you have managed to offend and annoy some of the very best people on this board.

And I don't care if you lived in Japan or not, your comments were a gross generalization and came off as racist. I wasn't aware that living somewhere gets you a Get out of Bigotry Free card.

capaho

It is precisely comments like that that leave me with the impression that you are an insecure high school student. It is simply not a mature way to respond to criticism or disagreement. I engaged in this discussion to begin with because I was motivated by your hypocrisy in admonishing others to stop hurling insults, which is something you do with wreckless abandon. If you really are a teacher, as you claim, the level of maturity you exhibit here is quite disconcerting.

And you think you're more mature than Grammaton? Wow. That's hard to believe.

#182 Posted by Metamania (11997 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

So, in other words, what you're really saying is "yak yak yak, blah blah blah", hoping that I should let you win your argument and think you have also triumphed over the rest of us, myself included?

Yeah...no. Just no. Sorry. Doesn't fly.

Also, two more things to clear up; my tone didn't lack civiliy. Don't know where you got that or how you seem to accept that, because that just came out of nowhere. When I'm on the boards, I am calm and I write when I can in that state of mind and when I write on here, I try to offer the best opinion that I can without trying to insult or offend and when a dicussion or question comes up from someone else, I'll do my best to answer it. But I've been here since the days when Gamespot opened and I was also chosen as one of the first two assistant moderators for the Gamespot forums, including this one. So I know what's needed to stay level-headed and cool, although, as I said, my passion can get the best of me, as well as my anger, so it happens.

Second, in regards to you accepting something; you only accept what you believe and say and not from the rest of us. As I said, when things don't work well in your favor, here you come, angry that no one believes what you say and have insulted, like how you are asking Grammaton if he's a high school student and not an adult. That implies, to me, that don't think of him as intelligent or not on your level. But clearly, he has stated himself pretty well around here. As I told someone else, we don't have to like his opinions at all, but we respect the heck out of him for it. At least I do, can't speak for the rest of you guys on it though, but I do. So when it comes down to this Dead Or Alive 5 breast argument happening, some of us are great, others are not. Clearly, you are not.

Just offering my two cents.

capaho

Wow! After your previous reply you actually had me thinking it was worth engaging in a discussion with you.

If that's the best rebuttal you can come up with against me, that's just sad.

Stop playing these stupid games of yours, as C_Rake adequetly put it, and respond with something more effective and intelligent, not these short, sad remarks that make you think you're winning or are better than the rest of us.

Either that or just don't post here at all. Simple as that.

#183 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

It is precisely comments like that that leave me with the impression that you are an insecure high school student. It is simply not a mature way to respond to criticism or disagreement. I engaged in this discussion to begin with because I was motivated by your hypocrisy in admonishing others to stop hurling insults, which is something you do with wreckless abandon. If you really are a teacher, as you claim, the level of maturity you exhibit here is quite disconcerting.

capaho

I'd love for you to cite some specific examples of me hurling insults with reckless abandon.

And since you seem so bent on making these ridiculously pedestrian analyses regarding my supposedly fragile psyche, let's take a gander at you.

Based on what you've written here and in the other thread you are a narcissistic personality who is incapable of having a rationale discussion and instead lashes out with personal attacks anytime your views or arguments are challenged. Your egocentric core is so deeply ingrained that you actually exhibit many of the anti-social predilections and behaviors you accuse others of and yet are entirely unwilling (or unable) to identify these behaviors as they pertain to your own psychological makeup.

You also exhibit a strong pretension for intellect but your vocabulary exceeds your actual cognitive ability, suggesting you write using a thesaurus and assume that intelligent words alone imbue your ideas and arguments with an equally intellectual quotient. Your pronounced egotism is also apparent in your lack of introspection, which is the only way a person like you can remain in a situation where quite literally every other human being is telling you that you are wrong.

Your argumentation style is puerile and grossly underdeveloped yet you persist, reinforcing the notion that ego is your primary propellant. When you do attempt to mount an argument or rebuttal you indulge in vagaries, cite irrelevant information, and become hostile and dismissive of those who oppose you. I also have caught a whiff of what appears to be willful fabrication on your part, as in both threads you have mentioned facts that you introduced only after your arguments were challenged.

For example in the Sleeping Dogs thread you brought up the notion that you were a hardened street fighter and tried to use this information as leverage against those who called out your critique as flawed.

In this thread you suddenly mention that you lived in Japan for fifteen years, something that seems like it would preface an argument about the culture rather than be mentioned as an aside later. What is even more mystifying is how incredibly superficial your knowledge of the Japanese culture seems given the protracted amount of time you claim to have lived there.

I'm close friends with a man who spent a good five years in Japan and his description of the culture, people, art, etc. seems far more complicated and nuanced than your own, which comes off as somebody who glanced at a Wikipedia article.

So you can hurl all the insults, personal derision and bravado that you want but in the end I'm not the one who has been asked by multiple people to leave this forum. The fact that you can't even acknowledge that reality and the subsequent implications of that fact alone speaks volumes about your mental constitution.

#184 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -

[QUOTE="capaho"]

It is precisely comments like that that leave me with the impression that you are an insecure high school student. It is simply not a mature way to respond to criticism or disagreement. I engaged in this discussion to begin with because I was motivated by your hypocrisy in admonishing others to stop hurling insults, which is something you do with wreckless abandon. If you really are a teacher, as you claim, the level of maturity you exhibit here is quite disconcerting.

Grammaton-Cleric

I'd love for you to cite some specific examples of me hurling insults with reckless abandon.

And since you seem so bent on making these ridiculously pedestrian analyses regarding my supposedly fragile psyche, let's take a gander at you.

Based on what you've written here and in the other thread you are a narcissistic personality who is incapable of having a rationale discussion and instead lashes out with personal attacks anytime your views or arguments are challenged. Your egocentric core is so deeply ingrained that you actually exhibit many of the anti-social predilections and behaviors you accuse others of and yet are entirely unwilling (or unable) to identify these behaviors as they pertain to your own psychological makeup.

You also exhibit a strong pretension for intellect but your vocabulary exceeds your actual cognitive ability, suggesting you write using a thesaurus and assume that intelligent words alone imbue your ideas and arguments with an equally intellectual quotient. Your pronounced egotism is also apparent in your lack of introspection, which is the only way a person like you can remain in a situation where quite literally every other human being is telling you that you are wrong.

Your argumentation style is puerile and grossly underdeveloped yet you persist, reinforcing the notion that ego is your primary propellant. When you do attempt to mount an argument or rebuttal you indulge in vagaries, cite irrelevant information, and become hostile and dismissive of those who oppose you. I also have caught a whiff of what appears to be willful fabrication on your part, as in both threads you have mentioned facts that you introduced only after your arguments were challenged.

For example in the Sleeping Dogs thread you brought up the notion that you were a hardened street fighter and tried to use this information as leverage against those who called out your critique as flawed.

In this thread you suddenly mention that you lived in Japan for fifteen years, something that seems like it would preface an argument about the culture rather than be mentioned as an aside later. What is even more mystifying is how incredibly superficial your knowledge of the Japanese culture seems given the protracted amount of time you claim to have lived there.

I'm close friends with a man who spent a good five years in Japan and his description of the culture, people, art, etc. seems far more complicated and nuanced than your own, which comes off as somebody who glanced at a Wikipedia article.

So you can hurl all the insults, personal derision and bravado that you want but in the end I'm not the one who has been asked by multiple people to leave this forum. The fact that you can't even acknowledge that reality and the subsequent implications of that fact alone speaks volumes about your mental constitution.

I sense a vehemently nonsensical response incoming...
#185 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

I sense a vehemently nonsensical response incoming...

El_Zo1212o

I should let it go but I really don't get what he's trying to do at this point and I'm morbidly curious.

#186 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]

I sense a vehemently nonsensical response incoming...

Grammaton-Cleric

I should let it go but I really don't get what he's trying to do at this point and I'm morbidly curious.

Frankly, I wanted to address that post the way you did, but I couldn't bring myself to spend that much time, knowing his response would be short and completely off-point.
#187 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="skrat_01"] Sure, many games do, I'm certainly not excluding those games (though I'd say Tekken and SF don't necessarily stray into this territory) Soul Calibur especially is as much about hypersexualization as DOA; the difference being DOA is a franchise that stemmed into the 'Extreme Beach Volley Ball' territory, which outright is minigames and video-game soft porn - as you mentioned. DOA certainly isn't the rule when it comes to video game soft porn, that's for sure. The fighting genre isn't exclusive to this either. What I like about the DOA series is that it's outright honest about its intentions, and isn't trying to masquerade as something that it isn't, same with Soul Cailbur. Other games like Bayonetta fall into that category too; though that's all very much part of its outrageous camp humour. skrat_01

What's interesting about DOA5 is that I think they were more concerned with making a legitimate fighter than facilitating fetishistic fantasies.

The mistake was taking the criticisms about the breasts seriously and worse, publically admitting they did so.

DOA5 is a fantastic game and frankly it doesn't require this type of superficial content.

Fair enough, makes perfect sense, though I'd say the titillation has become a real part of the DOA franchise, enough for the fanbase to be clamouring for it and it to be identified in that regard.

My problem is who, really, was this fan base that responded?

And do they truly represent a significant fraction of those who play the game?

I've been playing DOA since the PS1 and I certainly have never indulged in this franchise because of the sex appeal.

#188 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -
[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]

I sense a vehemently nonsensical response incoming...

El_Zo1212o

I should let it go but I really don't get what he's trying to do at this point and I'm morbidly curious.

Frankly, I wanted to address that post the way you did, but I couldn't bring myself to spend that much time, knowing his response would be short and completely off-point.

The really strange part of this is that I was discussing something else with him in another thread(I forget what), and he came off as pretty reasonable. Maybe he only devolves into nonsense when his blood is up?
#189 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]

I sense a vehemently nonsensical response incoming...

El_Zo1212o

I should let it go but I really don't get what he's trying to do at this point and I'm morbidly curious.

Frankly, I wanted to address that post the way you did, but I couldn't bring myself to spend that much time, knowing his response would be short and completely off-point.

The best thing about this thread and situation is that brings together the best of this place. Most of the people who have responded have engaged in heated debates with me at some point or another yet we all have a protracted mutual respect for each other because we recognize one another's respective intelligence.

The people who crash and burn in here are people like Capaho, who think they are, by default, the smartest guy in the room.

#190 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"][QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

I should let it go but I really don't get what he's trying to do at this point and I'm morbidly curious.

Grammaton-Cleric

Frankly, I wanted to address that post the way you did, but I couldn't bring myself to spend that much time, knowing his response would be short and completely off-point.

The best thing about this thread and situation is that brings together the best of this place. Most of the people who have responded have engaged in heated debates with me at some point or another yet we all have a protracted mutual respect for each other because we recognize one another's respective intelligence.

The people who crash and burn in here are people like Capaho, who think they are, by default, the smartest guy in the room.

I think we had a pretty good row back in the Arkham City thread. If it hadn't ended up getting so huge, I'd probably go back and read it just for kicks.
#191 Posted by Metamania (11997 posts) -

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] Frankly, I wanted to address that post the way you did, but I couldn't bring myself to spend that much time, knowing his response would be short and completely off-point.El_Zo1212o

The best thing about this thread and situation is that brings together the best of this place. Most of the people who have responded have engaged in heated debates with me at some point or another yet we all have a protracted mutual respect for each other because we recognize one another's respective intelligence.

The people who crash and burn in here are people like Capaho, who think they are, by default, the smartest guy in the room.

I think we had a pretty good row back in the Arkham City thread. If it hadn't ended up getting so huge, I'd probably go back and read it just for kicks.

Well, that and you'd probably bug people to beat your score on the Iceberg Lounge, again. :P

#192 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"][QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

The best thing about this thread and situation is that brings together the best of this place. Most of the people who have responded have engaged in heated debates with me at some point or another yet we all have a protracted mutual respect for each other because we recognize one another's respective intelligence.

The people who crash and burn in here are people like Capaho, who think they are, by default, the smartest guy in the room.

Metamania

I think we had a pretty good row back in the Arkham City thread. If it hadn't ended up getting so huge, I'd probably go back and read it just for kicks.

Well, that and you'd probably bug people to beat your score on the Iceberg Lounge, again. :P

Hey, hey, hey! It isn't my fault you can't be bothered to practice... :D
#193 Posted by GhettoBlastin92 (1148 posts) -
Wow, they have to be Japan fans.
#194 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

The really strange part of this is that I was discussing something else with him in another thread(I forget what), and he came off as pretty reasonable. Maybe he only devolves into nonsense when his blood is up?

El_Zo1212o

That's because I usually am pretty reasonable, and it was refreshing to see that you are capable of that as well. The discussion we had in the GTA clone thread is more in line with the way I usually participate in a discussion. Even MetaMania sometimes says things that are thought provoking, only to follow them later with a rant that destroys the positive effect of his previous comments. I like the thought-provoking MetaMania, but the ranting MetaMania can be rather disturbing. I suppose he's just being true to his nickname, which means beyond mania.

If you will recall, all of this acrimony between the same few of you in this thread and myself started when all of you joined together in attacking me for criticizing Sleeping Dogs in the thread I started on that game. From reading various other posts around the forums, that seems to be a pattern with the few of you that others have been subjected to as well.

In any case, if you don't like the way I reply to you, keep in mind that I reply to the content of the comments that are directed at me. It's up to you to decide if you want to keep this acrimony alive or not.

#195 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -
If you will recall, all of this acrimony between the same few of you in this thread and myself started when all of you joined together in attacking me for criticizing Sleeping Dogs in the thread I started on that game. From reading various other posts around the forums, that seems to be a pattern with the few of you that others have been subjected to as well.

In any case, if you don't like the way I reply to you, keep in mind that I reply to the content of the comments that are directed at me. It's up to you to decide if you want to keep this acrimony alive or not.

capaho
So far, there are only two people on this board that I despise on sight. For all the rest, I try to keep it on a thread-by-thread basis. I'm pretty sure Gram's the same way. MM can be a bit hot tempered at times, but can you see how your remark about him here could serve to fuel his indignation? You can be a pretty inflammatory dude. We can do our share of back-patting, but you've got to realize that opening up a thread on how a well-reviewed game was improperly coded only to reverse your opinion once you understood the mechanics(what, nearly two hundred replies later?) could get you looked at as something of a quack? And we weren't the only ones "attacking" you in either that thread or this one.
#196 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

So far, there are only two people on this board that I despise on sight. For all the rest, I try to keep it on a thread-by-thread basis. I'm pretty sure Gram's the same way. MM can be a bit hot tempered at times, but can you see how your remark about him here could serve to fuel his indignation? You can be a pretty inflammatory dude. We can do our share of back-patting, but you've got to realize that opening up a thread on how a well-reviewed game was improperly coded only to reverse your opinion once you understood the mechanics(what, nearly two hundred replies later?) could get you looked at as something of a quack? And we weren't the only ones "attacking" you in either that thread or this one.

El_Zo1212o

I don't despise anyone here nor do I hold grudges, and I realize I can be provocative, but usually only when provoked. If the tone of the discussion changes, my tone changes with it.

As for the Sleeping Dogs discussion, make up your mind. If I hold my ground, I'm accused of not being responsive to others. If I modify my position, I'm accused of backpeddling. Regardless, my assessment of Sleeping Dogs is just that, my assessment. I did initially think that the coding was broken in Sleeping Dogs, but once I realized the game was designed that way I stated that. It then became an issue of bad design for me rather than an issue of broken coding, and that opinion has only been reinforced as I continue to play Sleeping Dogs because my overall opinion of the control mechanics hasn't changed. Is that distinction too subtle to grasp?

There were others in the Sleeping Dogs discussion who simply stated that they had no problems with the game or that they found it enjoyable despite its flaws, but it wasn't enough for you and your cohorts to accept that I didn't like the control mechanics in Sleeping Dogs and just leave it where we could agree to disagree. You wanted to argue about my criticisms of the game, peppering your objections to my comments with personal attacks. That's a pattern I've also seen in other threads directed at other members.

#197 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]

So far, there are only two people on this board that I despise on sight. For all the rest, I try to keep it on a thread-by-thread basis. I'm pretty sure Gram's the same way. MM can be a bit hot tempered at times, but can you see how your remark about him here could serve to fuel his indignation? You can be a pretty inflammatory dude. We can do our share of back-patting, but you've got to realize that opening up a thread on how a well-reviewed game was improperly coded only to reverse your opinion once you understood the mechanics(what, nearly two hundred replies later?) could get you looked at as something of a quack? And we weren't the only ones "attacking" you in either that thread or this one.

capaho

I don't despise anyone here nor do I hold grudges, and I realize I can be provocative, but usually only when provoked. If the tone of the discussion changes, my tone changes with it.

As for the Sleeping Dogs discussion, make up your mind. If I hold my ground, I'm accused of not being responsive to others. If I modify my position, I'm accused of backpeddling. Regardless, my assessment of Sleeping Dogs is just that, my assessment. I did initially think that the coding was broken in Sleeping Dogs, but once I realized the game was designed that way I stated that. It then became an issue of bad design for me rather than an issue of broken coding, and that opinion has only been reinforced as I continue to play Sleeping Dogs because my overall opinion of the control mechanics hasn't changed. Is that distinction too subtle to grasp?

There were others in the Sleeping Dogs discussion who simply stated that they had no problems with the game or that they found it enjoyable despite its flaws, but it wasn't enough for you and your cohorts to accept that I didn't like the control mechanics in Sleeping Dogs and just leave it where we could agree to disagree. You wanted to argue about my criticisms of the game, peppering your objections to my comments with personal attacks. That's a pattern I've also seen in other threads directed at other members.

Dude, relax. You're getting hot again, and this time, I'm not trying to beat on you. The responsive issue has to do with people who respond to the things you post. People will address certain things when responding to your posts, and instead of replying back on those points, you'll regularly ignore what people point out and respond to the minutiae, the incidental, the trite. It comes down to the fact that your responses exclude direct conversation. And then you toss in condescending little phrases like, "Is that distinction too subtle to grasp?" The point I was making about the OP in the Sleeping Dogs thread was that your assessment was flawed. Grossly flawed. And because you spent so much time swearing up and down that the earth was flat, people started treating you like a kook. And if I recall correctly, by the end of the thread, you were starting to enjoy yourself with the combat system. So really, by posting a thread saying the game was broken(or badly made) within the first few hours you spent with it, your assessment didn't count for much. If you had held off for a week or two before even submitting your user review(so much less the thread), you could have saved yourself no small amount of aggravation at least. And for my own amusement, I'd like to know what other threads you found us Three Wicked Musketeers ganging up in. I'm not denying it's ever happened, but every once in a while, I like rereading them. ---- @Gram and MM: did you hear that? We're cohorts. I kinda like that.
#198 Posted by capaho (1253 posts) -

Dude, relax. You're getting hot again, and this time, I'm not trying to beat on you. The responsive issue has to do with people who respond to the things you post. People will address certain things when responding to your posts, and instead of replying back on those points, you'll regularly ignore what people point out and respond to the minutiae, the incidental, the trite. It comes down to the fact that your responses exclude direct conversation. And then you toss in condescending little phrases like, "Is that distinction too subtle to grasp?" The point I was making about the OP in the Sleeping Dogs thread was that your assessment was flawed. Grossly flawed. And because you spent so much time swearing up and down that the earth was flat, people started treating you like a kook. And if I recall correctly, by the end of the thread, you were starting to enjoy yourself with the combat system. So really, by posting a thread saying the game was broken(or badly made) within the first few hours you spent with it, your assessment didn't count for much. If you had held off for a week or two before even submitting your user review(so much less the thread), you could have saved yourself no small amount of aggravation at least. And for my own amusement, I'd like to know what other threads you found us Three Wicked Musketeers ganging up in. I'm not denying it's ever happened, but every once in a while, I like rereading them. ---- @Gram and MM: did you hear that? We're cohorts. I kinda like that.

El_Zo1212o

I'm always relaxed. You guys are the ones who keep getting bent out of shape. The responsive issue is that we respond to each other. It's never one-sided. As to my unresponsiveness in addressing specific points of contention, at the risk of being redundant to the point of repetitive repetitousness by repeating myself over and over again, I'm not interested in arguing with any of you, I'm interested in civil discourse. You demand that others justify themselves to you when you disagree with something they've said. That's nothing more than self-absorbed arrogance. What makes your opinion more valid than anyone else's?

My assessment of the game mechanics in Sleeping Dogs is not flawed at all. After having played it enough now it's clear to me what it's been coded to do. The reason it annoys me to no end is because it's just a gimmick to increase the difficulty of the game without offering more realistic fighting. It's a cheap trick that you and too many others fell for. That's not to say I dislike the game entirely. In fact, I'd say it's the game I love to hate. There is much to like about Sleeping Dogs so I can understand why it might be popular. It's the annoying control mechanics that keep ruining it for me. Beyond that, I don't want to drag that discussion into this one. If you want to revisit your Sleeping Dogs mayhem, find that thread and revive it. The last time I revived it I got attacked for that, too, despite being the OP of the thread.

I'm not really inclined to indulge your ego regarding your history of bad behavior. You'll have to mount your own expedition if you want to find your old ruins.

#199 Posted by Metamania (11997 posts) -

[QUOTE="capaho"]If you will recall, all of this acrimony between the same few of you in this thread and myself started when all of you joined together in attacking me for criticizing Sleeping Dogs in the thread I started on that game. From reading various other posts around the forums, that seems to be a pattern with the few of you that others have been subjected to as well.

In any case, if you don't like the way I reply to you, keep in mind that I reply to the content of the comments that are directed at me. It's up to you to decide if you want to keep this acrimony alive or not.

El_Zo1212o

So far, there are only two people on this board that I despise on sight. For all the rest, I try to keep it on a thread-by-thread basis. I'm pretty sure Gram's the same way. MM can be a bit hot tempered at times, but can you see how your remark about him here could serve to fuel his indignation? You can be a pretty inflammatory dude. We can do our share of back-patting, but you've got to realize that opening up a thread on how a well-reviewed game was improperly coded only to reverse your opinion once you understood the mechanics(what, nearly two hundred replies later?) could get you looked at as something of a quack? And we weren't the only ones "attacking" you in either that thread or this one.

At times? Sure. But not all the time. ;)

#200 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6010 posts) -
[QUOTE="capaho"]...You demand that others justify themselves to you when you disagree with something they've said.... My assessment of the game mechanics in Sleeping Dogs is not flawed at all. I'm not really inclined to indulge your ego regarding your history of bad behavior. You'll have to mount your own expedition if you want to find your old ruins.

First, if you tell me the moon is made of green cheese, I'm going to demand you prove it. Second, your initial assessment(which is all I've ever argued about) was, as I said before, grossly flawed. You cannot deny that. And finally, I wasn't asking about my moderation history. I like to think I've got Right on my side when me and Gram and MM all push in the same direction.