Dark Souls 2 - Surprisingly not very fun.

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#1 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

I've only played for about four hours, but so far I'm having significantly less fun than I did with either Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. I think this is primarily because weapons are made of trash this time around and are on the verge of breaking after you've barely done anything, and there's far less healing supplies. Both of these make it so it's almost impossible to explore very far without having to run back to the bonfire to repair your weapons.

It also feels like a high budget imitation of a Souls game. It kind of looks and plays like a Souls game, but misses the soul and creativity that made the series so appealing in the first place, like they just didn't quite get it. They focused too hard on the difficulty aspect and forgot to focus on making the game interesting or fun to play.

Does any of this get better later on?

#2 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10324 posts) -

Ofcourse it will get better... Thats how RPGs work. They save the usefull crap for when you've leveled up all the way through :). Just stick with it.

#3 Posted by gregbmil (2607 posts) -

I didn't think it was anything special till I was about 40 hours in. Now it's hard to put down

#4 Posted by SovietsUnited (1928 posts) -

I've had the same problem... persist, after you beat the Pursuer you will gain control

#5 Posted by maynardburger (187 posts) -

I'm loving it. The repair thing got me early on, but just taught me very quickly I need to carry a backup weapon, which inadvertently led to the good fun of becoming less reliant on one single weapon and learning another.

Still only 12 hours in, but I feel its every bit as good as previous games *so far* in terms of atmosphere, level design, enemy design and challenge. And speaking of the difficulty in particular, I was honestly expecting to come in and be a bit of a boss after playing Dark and Demon's, thinking I knew the in's and out's of the combat, but I feel largely like a noob again, which I think is an understated accomplishment on FROM's part.

#6 Posted by jwsoul (5297 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Take more than one weapon with you.... We all had too.

#7 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@jwsoul said:

@Pffrbt: Take more than one weapon with you.... We all had too.

I am, after having to run through the same area multiple times to get more than one weapon.

I've also noticed that this game seems to miss the point of Souls games' stories largely being told through interesting environments and lore, and instead tries to focus on telling it through obtuse cutscenes at the expense of fleshing out the lore and environments.

#8 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16679 posts) -

I never had that issue. Usually whenever I turned back it was to resupply, return to Majula, etc. I thought it lived up to the Souls name. there were only two or three times that my weapon was on the verge of breaking.

#9 Posted by cooolio (451 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@jwsoul said:

@Pffrbt: Take more than one weapon with you.... We all had too.

I am, after having to run through the same area multiple times to get more than one weapon.

I've also noticed that this game seems to miss the point of Souls games' stories largely being told through interesting environments and lore, and instead tries to focus on telling it through obtuse cutscenes at the expense of fleshing out the lore and environments.

Do not even try to start that cutscene bullshit because there are maybe 5 or 6 and 90 percent are for boss battles.

#10 Posted by Flubbbs (2975 posts) -

carry repair powder on you?

#11 Edited by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@cooolio said:

Do not even try to start that cutscene bullshit because there are maybe 5 or 6 and 90 percent are for boss battles.

The game has more cutscenes than previous games and doesn't have as interesting lore or environments as previous games. I've heard this from several other people and I can tell from what I've experienced so far they're probably right.

It also seems like a stupid choice on the part of the developer to focus completely on a male character in the intro of the game when the player character may not even be male.

@Flubbbs said:

carry repair powder on you?

I would if anyone actually sold it.

#12 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16679 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Uninteresting lore...? I was talking to a friend about it and there's plenty. For one, a good chunk of the major bosses are reflective of bosses from the first game, and there are a lot of other cool connections to the first game, too. If you're only a few hours in, you haven't seen too much...

Not only that, but, yes, there are a lot of cut scenes compared to other games, but as another user said, about 95% of those are just introductions for important boss battles.

Have you fought Lost Sinner yet??

#13 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@Pffrbt: For one, a good chunk of the major bosses are reflective of bosses from the first game, and there are a lot of other cool connections to the first game, too.


Would that be Demon's Souls or Dark Souls? In either case, that just reinforces the feeling of there being a lack of creativity.

"Have you fought Lost Sinner yet??"
no, I'm having trouble getting motivated to play a game that arbitrarily forces me to stop exploring because I need to run back to repair my weapons over and over again.

#14 Posted by cooolio (451 posts) -

@Pffrbt: I do not understand your weapon problem. Once you get a decent weapon the only way your weapon will be at risk if you are fighting continuously from area to are. I will admit that it will be annoying when you first start out, but that is the whole point in reinforcing your weapons or at least taking a break now and then.

#15 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16679 posts) -

@Pffrbt: I'm referring to Dark Souls. the entire game is actually a direct sequel, story wise. Again, you're only a few hours in, so you haven't seen too much.

And get another weapon. For my first play through, I used two different kinds of long swords until I upgraded to a Great sword, and after that, I pretty much never worried about my weapon breaking. Start upgrading your weapons a bit, that should increase the durability too. It was off putting at first, but find two weapons with your preferred move set and you should do fine. I'm not seeing why you're having such huge issues with it.

#16 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@cooolio said:

@Pffrbt: I do not understand your weapon problem.

Weapons wear down way to quickly. I can only explore so far before I'm forced to backtrack to a bonfire to repair them. The only way around this problem right now is to either level up to the point that enemies take far less hits to kill, or to start just running past everything. Both solutions are stupid and not fun.

"Once you get a decent weapon the only way your weapon will be at risk if you are fighting continuously from area to are."
Until I find a decent weapon that I can actually use that's not an option. And I should never be forced to not fight enemies.

"I will admit that it will be annoying when you first start out, but that is the whole point in reinforcing your weapons or at least taking a break now and then."
I can't reinforce weapons until I unlock the blacksmith, and I can't unlock the blacksmith until I explore some more, which I can barely do thanks to crap weapons. I'm not sure what taking a break would do.

#17 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@Pffrbt: And get another weapon.

Pretty sure I'm already been working on trying to do that.

"Start upgrading your weapons a bit"
Can't yet.

"I'm not seeing why you're having such huge issues with it."
I've explained several times.

#18 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16679 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Well I'm just saying that for me personally, I didn't really have very many issues with it... Also how can't you upgrade weapons? Did you not unlock the blacksmith's shop with the key bought from the merchant lady??

#19 Posted by Masculus (2830 posts) -

I honestly think it is much better than the first or demon's souls, much more consistent at least.

#20 Posted by cooolio (451 posts) -

If

@Pffrbt said:

@cooolio said:

@Pffrbt: I do not understand your weapon problem.

Weapons wear down way to quickly. I can only explore so far before I'm forced to backtrack to a bonfire to repair them. The only way around this problem right now is to either level up to the point that enemies take far less hits to kill, or to start just running past everything. Both solutions are stupid and not fun.

"Once you get a decent weapon the only way your weapon will be at risk if you are fighting continuously from area to are."

Until I find a decent weapon that I can actually use that's not an option. And I should never be forced to not fight enemies.

"I will admit that it will be annoying when you first start out, but that is the whole point in reinforcing your weapons or at least taking a break now and then."

I can't reinforce weapons until I unlock the blacksmith, and I can't unlock the blacksmith until I explore some more, which I can barely do thanks to crap weapons. I'm not sure what taking a break would do.

If you have made it to the tower in the forest then you should have gotten the key already. It is not hard. You must be fighting continuously.

#21 Edited by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer said:

@Pffrbt: Well I'm just saying that for me personally, I didn't really have very many issues with it... Also how can't you upgrade weapons? Did you not unlock the blacksmith's shop with the key bought from the merchant lady??

I've yet to find a merchant lady with a key.

@cooolio said:

If you have made it to the tower in the forest then you should have gotten the key already. It is not hard. You must be fighting continuously.

I've yet to make it to the tower because my weapons are always almost broken at that point. The only option besides fighting continuously would be to run past all of the enemies on the way there, which is dumb.

My starting class was deprived, by the way.

#22 Posted by jwsoul (5297 posts) -

@Pffrbt: I never had a problem with weapons like i said 2 weapons. Yes one was considerably weaker than the other but it made do until i got to a Bon Fire. The Lore was hard to decipher before i should imagine it still is and there is a lot to it yet.

#23 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10324 posts) -

@ maynardburger

Maybe you feel like a noob a gain in Dark Souls II because you're not level 500 anymore. And you have to start over because your skills don't transfer.

Unlike an actual game that requires more than memorizing attack patterns (which sort of is like trial and error) and grinding to level up character and equipments attributes. :p

#24 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16679 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Um. You haven't been to the Forest of Fallen Giants? How many hours into the game are you, again??

#25 Posted by Gannon27 (98 posts) -

I am not being rude or sarcastic, but if you have not found the merchant lady and unlocked the blacksmith in 4 hours of play, then maybe DS2 is not the game for you.

#26 Edited by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Um. You haven't been to the Forest of Fallen Giants?

I have.

@gannon27 said:

I am not being rude or sarcastic, but if you have not found the merchant lady and unlocked the blacksmith in 4 hours of play, then maybe DS2 is not the game for you.

I just found her last night. The first time I made it to the door she was behind I chose to explore the pit right next to it, so I missed her. The still doesn't make up for the fact that I was forced to replay through this area several times to get enough swords to get to the area without them all breaking.

#27 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10324 posts) -

Heres what I don't get ... Why is weapon-wear even a feature inthis game ? Seems entirely useless.

#28 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

The only cutscene that's out of the norm for a Souls game is the one at the beginning with the women during character creation. All the other ones, which are literally all boss introductions, were also in Souls games.

Also, go to Forest of the Fallen Giants. There's no reason for your weapon to be breaking that quickly unless you're battling the knights in Heide's Tower of Flame. Even a crappy dagger will get you all the way to the second bonfire in Forest of Fallen Giants.

Well, unless you joined the Covenant of Champions. That also screws over a lot of new players.

#29 Posted by c_rakestraw (14607 posts) -

Weapon degradation is only a problem until you get the Bracing Knuckle Ring. It slows the rate at which your equipment wears significantly -- pretty much to the point where you don't have to worry about anything breaking ever. But you can't get that until you reach The Lost Bastille, unfortunately. Shouldn't be too hard to work around it in the meantime, though. What weapon are you using?

How far have you gotten into the Forest of Fallen Giants? Up the second bonfire there? Because if you have, you can buy a few firebombs from the old woman (you get the blacksmith's key from her for a thousand souls) and use them on one of the walls to destroy it, thus opening a pretty useful shortcut. Should help cut down on your weapon durability issues.

#30 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

There's no reason for your weapon to be breaking that quickly unless you're battling the knights in Heide's Tower of Flame. Even a crappy dagger will get you all the way to the second bonfire in Forest of Fallen Giants.

My first time through the area trying to get to the second bonfire my dagger broke, so you're obviously wrong.

#31 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

What weapon are you using?

A bunch of broken garbage dropped by enemies.

#32 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16679 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Then you've met the merchant who sells the key. she's the one sitting down and laughs a lot like the undead merchant in the Undead Burg from Dark Souls 1. Buy the key and you will be able to unlock the blacksmith's shop, thereby enabling upgrading.

#33 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -
#34 Posted by turtlethetaffer (16679 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Then how the hell can you not upgrade your weapons??? I know for a fact that the game shits out Titanite shards like it's going out of style... I was able to upgrade several weapons to the max +10 level without having to grind/ purchase extra shards, so you shouldn't have issues upgrading weapons, even in the beginning of the game.

#35 Edited by JangoWuzHere (16135 posts) -

You shouldn't have to run back to any bonfire. You should carry multiple weapons on your character incase one is about to break. You get less estus flasks, but the game gives you life gems which are far better. The game gives you multiple paths to explore. If your having trouble with one area, then backtrack and go down another path. This game is easier then Dark Souls 1, I don't understand why people have so much trouble with it.

#36 Posted by cooolio (451 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@turtlethetaffer: I've already done that.

As a matter of fact there is a guy besides the blacksmith that sells weapons in majula. I understand that you are a deprived, but I do not understand your weapon problem.

#37 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@Pffrbt: Then how the hell can you not upgrade your weapons???

Because I couldn't until I got to the point that I could.

You shouldn't have to run back to any bonfire.

I shouldn't, but the game is designed in such a way that I'm forced to.

"You should carry multiple weapons on your character incase one is about to break."
Impossible until you have more than one weapon your character can use. In order to get to that point I had to play through the same area multiple times to level up to use weapons and to get weapons I could use.

"The game gives you multiple paths to explore."
Except there was only one available to me that was actually feasible for me to explore.

#38 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

@cooolio said:

@Pffrbt said:

@turtlethetaffer: I've already done that.

As a matter of fact there is a guy besides the blacksmith that sells weapons in majula. I understand that you are a deprived, but I do not understand your weapon problem.

His weapons are all expensive and have stat requirements I can't meet until I run through an area multiple times to level up and collect enough souls to buy them. There is literally no way you can not understand this.

#39 Posted by cooolio (451 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@cooolio said:

@Pffrbt said:

@turtlethetaffer: I've already done that.

As a matter of fact there is a guy besides the blacksmith that sells weapons in majula. I understand that you are a deprived, but I do not understand your weapon problem.

His weapons are all expensive and have stat requirements I can't meet until I run through an area multiple times to level up and collect enough souls to buy them. There is literally no way you can not understand this.

sigh... the only advice I can give to you is take on the giant knights one at a time repeatedly while making sure to go back to the bonfire after beating one until it does not respond.+

#40 Edited by JangoWuzHere (16135 posts) -

@Pffrbt said:

@turtlethetaffer said:

@Pffrbt: Then how the hell can you not upgrade your weapons???

Because I couldn't until I got to the point that I could.

@JangoWuzHere said:

You shouldn't have to run back to any bonfire.

I shouldn't, but the game is designed in such a way that I'm forced to.

"You should carry multiple weapons on your character incase one is about to break."

Impossible until you have more than one weapon your character can use. In order to get to that point I had to play through the same area multiple times to level up to use weapons and to get weapons I could use.

"The game gives you multiple paths to explore."

Except there was only one available to me that was actually feasible for me to explore.

If your having so much trouble, start the game over and don't pick deprived. I played as a knight and had no trouble whatsoever with the start of this game.

#41 Edited by Byshop (11164 posts) -

If your having so much trouble, start the game over and don't pick deprived. I played as a knight and had no trouble whatsoever with the start of this game.

Yeah, by picking deprived you really started your character at a disadvantage. The level difference isn't a big deal because you can make it up quickly, but the equipment gap between "deprived" and the other classes is significant. No wonder you're having equipment supply issues.

-Byshop

#42 Posted by maynardburger (187 posts) -

@ maynardburger

Maybe you feel like a noob a gain in Dark Souls II because you're not level 500 anymore. And you have to start over because your skills don't transfer.

Unlike an actual game that requires more than memorizing attack patterns (which sort of is like trial and error) and grinding to level up character and equipments attributes. :p

Has nothing to do with my level...

Dark Souls 2 seems quite similar on the face of it, but the enemies have lots of new tricks up their sleeves, many are quite fast to recover after attacking and of course the new areas and whatnot mean you're never sure what's next and you have to learn how to use the environment to your advantage in many cases, which takes time(and many deaths!) to learn.

Learning attack patterns of enemies is hardly trial and error. Its the exact opposite, cuz you have to *learn* them. You have to observe, be patient and stay alive, which isn't easy to do all at once. And then once you've learned them, you still have to take advantage of it. Mistakes are costly and enemies aren't always 100% predictable. Its sure as hell far more involving and challenging than in most RPG's.

#43 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

If your having so much trouble, start the game over and don't pick deprived. I played as a knight and had no trouble whatsoever with the start of this game.

No way man, I'm not a baby.

#44 Posted by cooolio (451 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

@ maynardburger

Maybe you feel like a noob a gain in Dark Souls II because you're not level 500 anymore. And you have to start over because your skills don't transfer.

Unlike an actual game that requires more than memorizing attack patterns (which sort of is like trial and error) and grinding to level up character and equipments attributes. :p

Has nothing to do with my level...

Dark Souls 2 seems quite similar on the face of it, but the enemies have lots of new tricks up their sleeves, many are quite fast to recover after attacking and of course the new areas and whatnot mean you're never sure what's next and you have to learn how to use the environment to your advantage in many cases, which takes time(and many deaths!) to learn.

Learning attack patterns of enemies is hardly trial and error. Its the exact opposite, cuz you have to *learn* them. You have to observe, be patient and stay alive, which isn't easy to do all at once. And then once you've learned them, you still have to take advantage of it. Mistakes are costly and enemies aren't always 100% predictable. Its sure as hell far more involving and challenging than in most RPG's.

It is a lot easier. Do not make it sound harder than it is.

#45 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10324 posts) -

@ maynardburger

I didn't say learn.... I said memorize.

Also the game may not be trial and because it assumes its players understand the mechanics.... Its assumptions are wrong.

Anyway.... I'm more worried about the Build inequality. In any other RPG you play the character you create no matter the attributes and gear are is atleast good at something.... there was no wrong build only a wrong way to use them. Can't say the same about Dark Souls.

@ coolio

Difficulty is kinda subjective.... But I will say that Dark Souls is more "punishing".

#46 Posted by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

Anyway.... I'm more worried about the Build inequality. In any other RPG you play the character you create no matter the attributes and gear are is atleast good at something.... there was no wrong build only a wrong way to use them. Can't say the same about Dark Souls.

I'm glad Dark Souls doesn't have an "everybody wins" attitude, but seriously, if you have even a tiny bit of sense when spending souls to upgrade your character you should have little trouble at least finishing the game.

Because if you have, you can buy a few firebombs from the old woman (you get the blacksmith's key from her for a thousand souls) and use them on one of the walls to destroy it, thus opening a pretty useful shortcut. Should help cut down on your weapon durability issues.

I've found this supposed wall. It has a bunch of cracks in it and is surrounded by messages telling me to "use fire", and I can hear the bonfire behind it. I've thrown about 10 firebombs at it and it won't open.

#47 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10324 posts) -

@ Pffrbt

You picked a useless Starting class and it rendered your experience not as fun as everybody elses.

Anyway.... I didn't propose that everybody wins. I propose that nobody in inequal... Or at the very least, useless. I propose that theres no obvious edge.

Kinda like DiRT 2. Some cars a fast in the corners and slow on the straights, some are faster on road than off... Each track is desined in such a way that theres no overall disadvantage for any car you choose, you just have to know how to respect the car's strengths and compensate for its weaknesses. After hearing about "Naked Playthroughs" I assumed if I sucked then it would because I'm not utilizing my build properly not that the game is clearly biased to words certain builds and playstyles.

#48 Edited by Pffrbt (6528 posts) -

"You picked a useless Starting class and it rendered your experience not as fun as everybody elses."

See, the thing is is that this class wouldn't have been nearly as tedious to start as in the other games thanks to the fact that weapons didn't deteriorate so ridiculously fast in them.

@Lulu_Lulu said:
Anyway.... I didn't propose that everybody wins. I propose that nobody in inequal... Or at the very least, useless. I propose that theres no obvious edge.

Why should people who make a terrible character not be punished for it. There is no obvious edge, there's tons of different possibilities for different builds and play styles you can create, that are all viable. It's also possible to make a heap of garbage by spending your souls like a moron.

#49 Edited by cooolio (451 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu: That maybe, but 2 is a lot easier compared to the first. The difficulty really does not mean sh** if you can summon others. I remember when I summoned to players who were in my range and the beat the dragon boss in less than a minute.

There is no inequality with the builds unless you neglect certain vital stats. I really prefer rpgs that let you unlock abilities based on skill trees and class, but that is no the case with dark souls.

#50 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10324 posts) -

@ Pffrbt

Uhm... Because its bad design and partly confirms what I've been saying about Dark Souls all this time. Should I decide to dump all my souls on Intelligence and Faith only then why is the game punishing me for that..... Its not like your gona know what stats you're gona need BEFORE you encounter all the baddies...

Or atleast thats what a well balanced game would do....

Is this another one of those things that only From Software can get away because they're "Hardcore" and "No Handholding" ?

Perhap Lords of Fallen will show them how its suppose to be done.

www.joystiq.com/2013/09/12/next-gen-rpg-lords-of-the-fallen-wants-to-challenge-not-mindles/

Masochism At Its Finest.