Dark Souls 2 Speculation Thread - More Accessible, but how could it look?

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#51 Posted by AcidThunder (2332 posts) -

Newcomers to the series (or in my case, people who are seeing a dip in patience with grindfests and trial and error heavy games) see it as harder because they haven't built up the immunity to all the frustrations inherent int he game design. Even some core gamers who beat tough games like the original release of DMC3, God Hand, Bayonetta, NSMBU,and others find Dark Souls off putting, and these people like challenging games. Dark Souls just goes about creating it's challenge in all the wrong ways.

SulIy

i am a newcomer to the series and i just loved the game and it isn't as trial and error heavy as you make it out to be 
and its because of the difficulty that i get a feeling of achievement after i defeat a boss something that is missing in the easier games

#52 Posted by Minishdriveby (10044 posts) -

[QUOTE="idunnodude"]

personally i never had a problem with the difficulty. its just the constant backtracking everytime you die. this was the worst part of the game for me. yeah its all fun and stuff when its the 1st time you are going through a level. but then it just becomes tedious and you find yourself doing suicide runs past everything just to get another crack at the boss, especially since the enemies spawn at the same exact place each time.

MentatAssassin

Wow, just...wow. I've never even heard of anyone doing this. I mean wouldnt you want the souls? Not to mention the revenge or additional practice?

If they introduce an easy mode this is probably what people will do. Run past enemies, kill the boss right quick then run to the window and start shouting to the world how they just beat Dark Souls the hardest game ever.

I weep for the future.

Really? I ignore most of the enemies in Anor Londo until I get inside the castle with the silver knights.
#53 Posted by Metamania (12018 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="rragnaar"] You've got to understand that for the fan base that made it what it is, the game is fine. I don't like hard games. I still don't. For me, when I sat down to play Demon's Souls the first time, I had to ask myself if I bought what the game was selling or not. In the end, I loved it and went on to love Dark Souls. It is a formula that could very easily be compromised where longtime fans aren't happy and the game still wouldn't be approachable enough for mass market appeal. I have a feeling that there may not be a compromise that leaves both you and I happy with Dark Souls 2. I think the game could do more to introduce itself to newbies, but it is something special that could easily get destroyed by going after a crowd who may never like it, and leaving behind a disappointed and no longer loyal fan base.

Shiroibwoy

Then they need to include Easy Mode in the next game and leave that for gamers like myself, who do want a fighting chance. If there are others, such as yourself, that do deserve that awesome challenge that you found in Demon's Souls and now Dark Souls, that should be left up in the other difficulties as well. All I'm saying is that there needs to be a given for fair chance. I understand Black_Knight when he talks about being punished constantly. How exactly is being punished constantly fun? I know that you are suppose to learn from trial and error, but I think it's a bit overdone to death with the punishment aspect of the game.



Life isn't about easy mode. Life is suffering. Do you want an easy mode in life too? Do you wonder how anyone could find it fun to punish their body for years at the gym? Or how that businessowner could punish his family and social life by working late nights and going on dull businesstrips? To get anything in life means hard work. People want an easy mode in games because games is supposed to be an escape from real life. If the game is hard and lacks an easy mode and they fail, and fail, and fail again it reminds them too much of real life work and thus they don't want to play it anymore. Dark Souls isn't about the punishment, it's about the rewards by overcoming that punishment. But go ahead, have fun with your easily obtained gear and armor that you can circle the camera around courtesy of easy mode.

So basically, what you're saying is that I'm a coward for wanting easy mode? Get a clue, man!

I don't have to play it on the hardest difficulty to satify my gaming experiences. Also, I know PLENTY about hard-work in real-life. You'll never understand the problems or challenges I go through on a day-to-day basis and I wouldn't be able to understand yours. Do you honestly think that I couldn't imagine how hard it is to obtain a six-pack and a ripped body or having to work on those long, hard hours? Believe me, I KNOW what hard work means and I do it EVERYDAY. But you see, this is a VIDEOGAME and videogames can be played on either the easiest or hardest difficulty, the choice is left up to you. So what if I want to play my videogames on the easiest mode? Does it mean that I won't be challenged as much? Sure, but at the same time, I'd like to actually ENJOY my videogames and get away from real-life. After all, isn't that what videogames is all about? Maybe not to you, since you think it's all about hard-work, but go ahead. Take that mentality with you all the time, that's fine. I understand it for real-life, but gaming doesn't necessarily have to be the same way. At all. Granted, I know that by going through the toughest games alone (which is what I've done PLENTY of times), I know how rewarding it is and how awesome the feeling that rushes over you after the game is completed and either one or multiple achievements/trophies are unlocked.

Would I love to do the same for Dark Souls/Demon's Souls? Eventually. But right now, I'd like to be less punished and have more of an enjoyable experience with it instead of dying too much and getting frustrated over it.

#54 Posted by c_rakestraw (14722 posts) -

Would I love to do the same for Dark Souls/Demon's Souls? Eventually. But right now, I'd like to be less punished and have more of an enjoyable experience with it instead of dying too much and getting frustrated over it.Metamania

Hey, Meta? If you ever do pick up Dark Souls or Demon's Souls again, don't hesitate to ask for help. Lot of us here know way more about those games than is probably reasonable. Help goes a long way toward making those games way more manageable.

#55 Posted by Metamania (12018 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]Would I love to do the same for Dark Souls/Demon's Souls? Eventually. But right now, I'd like to be less punished and have more of an enjoyable experience with it instead of dying too much and getting frustrated over it.c_rake

Hey, Meta? If you ever do pick up Dark Souls or Demon's Souls again, don't hesitate to ask for help. Lot of us here know way more about those games than is probably reasonable. Help goes a long way toward making those games way more manageable.

I will man! I'm sure that, by this point, people know a lot more of the game than I do, so your help or anybody else's help, for that matter, would be MOST appreciative! Thank you C_Rake! :)

#56 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="c_rake"]Dark Souls is already much easier than Demon's Souls. Dark Souls is also a better game because they refined the formula in spectacular ways.SulIy

People only think Demon's Souls was harder because it was their first crack at these games. It's like how long time gamers who cut their teeth on NES Mario games thought that NSMBU was a pretty good game that finally presented a mild to sometimes good challenge, while other gamers think NSMBU is the hardest Mario game ever made. It's because I went through the bootcamp that is SMB 3 and SMB World that I don't see it as being that steep. Dark Souls seems easier to people who like these games because they already are used to the extreme patience needed to conquer them.

Newcomers to the series (or in my case, people who are seeing a dip in patience with grindfests and trial and error heavy games) see it as harder because they haven't built up the immunity to all the frustrations inherent int he game design. Even some core gamers who beat tough games like the original release of DMC3, God Hand, Bayonetta, NSMBU,and others find Dark Souls off putting, and these people like challenging games. Dark Souls just goes about creating it's challenge in all the wrong ways.

Nah, people think Demon's Souls is harder than Dark Souls because Demon's Souls is in fact harder than Dark Souls.

 

#57 Posted by chaplainDMK (6842 posts) -

Hey everyone,

with all the discussion about Dark Souls 2 going on and now that Dark Souls 1 has gained that much interest again, I wonder why there is so few "concrete" speculation about what it could look like to make a game like Dark Souls 2 more accessible, so I thought I just start a thread about it where I put down my ideas, let hear your opinion on them and post your own ideas as well.

So, here I start:

Bonfire Quicktravel: Could imagine they imply this, though I wouldn't be something I like for it makes the tensity of battling through an area obsolete as well as shortcuts, but then again, after you have backtracked the 1000 time it would be good.

Selling / Buying early on: Well, you can anyway do that in Dark Souls but it takes a bit of patience and exploration to do so. Most of the time though I can't really understand why it needs to be hidden away when most of the stuff the merchants have is mere basic stuff anyways.

Easy Mode: Would be a good idea for beginners to explore and learn everything a bit with on screen tutorials and such, the usual action adventure conventions. Maybe it could be made more "unappealing" to the hardcore fans by locking off Trophies in Easy Mode or just let the player play until a certain point in the story where he already has learned all the basics but can only progress in normal mode.

Better organised menus / looting: This is sincerely a mess in Dark Souls, when you want to check what loot an enemy has dropped you also pick it up automatically, thus making your inventory unorganized as hell. Sure, you can buy that bottomless chest at some vendors, but also having to always organize it there is an annoying clumsy process so it would be great to have more clear and indeed accessible options here

Splitting up currency: Maybe they could add in a second currency, not only Souls, but Gold etc. as well, for it's kinda more logical that some stuff is bought with gold and you can have your souls for, let's say only buying magic and level ups, not repairs (which is totally illogical in my opinion) and buying / selling weapons as well, it also would lower the amount of time you waste on grinding for souls, which really can get a bit out of hand after a while. With a good price / item balance one would still have to think about what to buy next.

PVP / CoOP restructuring: The basic concept of PVP and CoOp is fine as it is in my opinion, just the way how it's accessed really needs to be improved, let's say you want to help someone with a certain boss because you know that boss well, instead of having to drop down a summon sign and stay in the area aaaaaaaall the time get's pretty boring after a while, sure, you can kill the monsters around while waiting, but after that? Not to mentions the borders of an area aren't always that clear, so go through the wrong door and your summon sign is gone and you can walk aaaaall the way back just to put it down again.

So it would be better to allow the player to put down multiple summon signs that are permanent and won't go away too soon, but instead of being sucked right into the other persons world you would be asked first if you want to travel now. Or rehash the PVP / CoOp all together.


Leaving messages for other players: Would be nice if you could put down your own text instead of just predefined ones or improving the preset ones, for they're not always what you might be looking for and aren't always helpful, for example adding arrows and certain icons to it maybe, for when you reach a text that says "left" it isn't very helpful when you don't now from which side it's to be regarded.

Well, so far, this are my ideas and speculations in what Namco Bandai could do to make Dark Souls 2 more accessible. So, what do you think of these / one of these and what are yours?

Justforvisit
I really don't see any need for what you're pointing at. Having only souls and the merchants being hidden away makes the game world feel less like some high fantasy realm and more like the decrepid hell-hole that it's seposed to be. The main thing I'd change is the setting from medieval styled fantasy to ancient fantasy, because there's not a single high profile RPG set in ancient times, and the only really high profile game set in those times in general is God of War.
#58 Posted by Minishdriveby (10044 posts) -

[QUOTE="SulIy"]

[QUOTE="c_rake"]Dark Souls is already much easier than Demon's Souls. Dark Souls is also a better game because they refined the formula in spectacular ways.IndianaPwns39

People only think Demon's Souls was harder because it was their first crack at these games. It's like how long time gamers who cut their teeth on NES Mario games thought that NSMBU was a pretty good game that finally presented a mild to sometimes good challenge, while other gamers think NSMBU is the hardest Mario game ever made. It's because I went through the bootcamp that is SMB 3 and SMB World that I don't see it as being that steep. Dark Souls seems easier to people who like these games because they already are used to the extreme patience needed to conquer them.

Newcomers to the series (or in my case, people who are seeing a dip in patience with grindfests and trial and error heavy games) see it as harder because they haven't built up the immunity to all the frustrations inherent int he game design. Even some core gamers who beat tough games like the original release of DMC3, God Hand, Bayonetta, NSMBU,and others find Dark Souls off putting, and these people like challenging games. Dark Souls just goes about creating it's challenge in all the wrong ways.

Nah, people think Demon's Souls is harder than Dark Souls because Demon's Souls is in fact harder than Dark Souls.

 

Not really... Magic users in demon's Souls could take down bosses in 2-3 hits. The majority of the time you could just stand outside the bosses attack range and cast spells until dead; i.e. Tower Knight, Dirty Colossus, Armor Spider, etc. The game is also shorter than Dark Souls if you're just playing the story. I finished Demon's Souls in 24 hours. I haven't beaten it multiple times like Dark Souls though.
#59 Posted by SulIy (112 posts) -

I'm comparing these games because the Souls games tend to take a different approach to creating challenge then most games that are generally considered challenging. That's the only reason I mentioned them, as a way to try to explain why a lot of people who generally like challenging games do not like these titles much at all.

True. But Dark Souls didn't have "soul form," which cut your HP by 50%c_rake

It has curse, which is harder to deal with, you can get a ring early in the game that lets you keep more HP in Soul form.  Their were actual advantages to being in Soul form as well that balanced things out, curse is just a massive PITA if you happen to be out of the items that cure it, and a big time waster in a game that is already really good at making you invest obscene amounts of time for very little tangible gain.

Life isn't about easy mode.Shiroibwoy

It's just a video game. :|

#60 Posted by Minishdriveby (10044 posts) -
[QUOTE="SulIy"] It has curse, which is harder to deal with, you can get a ring early in the game that lets you keep more HP in Soul form.

There are only 2 enemies that can curse you and they rarely show up. Also there is an item that uncurses you rather easily which is really close to firelink shrine. There's never really a huge opportunity to get cursed unless you fall down a hole in the sewers, are trying to go to Ash Lake, or are facing Seath. My first playthrough I was cursed about 4 times (once in the depths, another at ash lake, and twice by Seath because I didn't bother moving out of the way during the boss fight). The first time I was dreading it because I heard about it, and how everyone thought it was a game breaker or horrible feature. I found them to be over-exaggerating, sure I had to run back to firelink from the depths, but it wasn't a pain in the ass, especially when you just run past enemies with your shield up.
#61 Posted by Chemistian (635 posts) -
A lot of interesting ideas floating around here, but outside of a slight improvement on the inventory menu, I don't really care for most of the changes proposed. I would like to see more unique elements added to the covenants. For instance, if one chooses the Gravelord Servant covenant, and the added enemies result in a death in an infected world, a humanity and soul collection from that death would be nice, along with an eye of death. Infecting worlds would be a lot more fun so long you had knowledge that what you were doing was having an effect. Adding benefits and better reasoning for sticking with one covenant instead of bouncing around until you have collected the pyromancies and miracles you need could go a long way, with a large amount of creativity available in that light.
#62 Posted by Justforvisit (5047 posts) -

[QUOTE="SulIy"] It has curse, which is harder to deal with, you can get a ring early in the game that lets you keep more HP in Soul form. Minishdriveby
There are only 2 enemies that can curse you and they rarely show up. Also there is an item that uncurses you rather easily which is really close to firelink shrine. There's never really a huge opportunity to get cursed unless you fall down a hole in the sewers, are trying to go to Ash Lake, or are facing Seath. My first playthrough I was cursed about 4 times (once in the depths, another at ash lake, and twice by Seath because I didn't bother moving out of the way during the boss fight). The first time I was dreading it because I heard about it, and how everyone thought it was a game breaker or horrible feature. I found them to be over-exaggerating, sure I had to run back to firelink from the depths, but it wasn't a pain in the ass, especially when you just run past enemies with your shield up.



What exactly does curse do that it is hated so much?

#63 Posted by Minishdriveby (10044 posts) -

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"][QUOTE="SulIy"] It has curse, which is harder to deal with, you can get a ring early in the game that lets you keep more HP in Soul form. Justforvisit

There are only 2 enemies that can curse you and they rarely show up. Also there is an item that uncurses you rather easily which is really close to firelink shrine. There's never really a huge opportunity to get cursed unless you fall down a hole in the sewers, are trying to go to Ash Lake, or are facing Seath. My first playthrough I was cursed about 4 times (once in the depths, another at ash lake, and twice by Seath because I didn't bother moving out of the way during the boss fight). The first time I was dreading it because I heard about it, and how everyone thought it was a game breaker or horrible feature. I found them to be over-exaggerating, sure I had to run back to firelink from the depths, but it wasn't a pain in the ass, especially when you just run past enemies with your shield up.



What exactly does curse do that it is hated so much?

It cuts your HP in half. Although there is an item the breaks the curse restoring your HP to full. Also it stacks so if you're cursed while cursed you HP will be 1/4 of what it should be. But really it's not that hard to break the curse.
#64 Posted by Archangel3371 (15753 posts) -
I've got to echo the sentiments as some others have posted and that's to see an easy mode put into this game. As long as they still make a normal or default difficulty the same as the other two games then it's a no-issue having an easy mode. Games have the ability to cater to more types of people without sacrificing for anyone group. If you like the challenge of previous games then as long as they maintain the same difficulty with normal the inclusion of an easier difficulty won't affect you at all.
#65 Posted by Metamania (12018 posts) -

With all this talk that's going on about Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I decided to give it another shot. Amazon has a brand-new copy of Dark Souls in stock for $20, for the XB360, so I decided to pick it up again. Wish me luck as I try my luck on it...oh and I plan on going through the game offline mode. That's one of the other reasons why I didn't like Dark Souls; I don't like the idea of people stepping into your own world and messing things up. I prefer to have a solo experience unless if there was co-op that had nothing like that enabled, as in able to fight each other or even hit each other, even if the hit was unintentional.

#66 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5207 posts) -

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

#67 Posted by c_rakestraw (14722 posts) -

With all this talk that's going on about Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I decided to give it another shot. Amazon has a brand-new copy of Dark Souls in stock for $20, for the XB360, so I decided to pick it up again. Wish me luck as I try my luck on it...oh and I plan on going through the game offline mode. That's one of the other reasons why I didn't like Dark Souls; I don't like the idea of people stepping into your own world and messing things up. I prefer to have a solo experience unless if there was co-op that had nothing like that enabled, as in able to fight each other or even hit each other, even if the hit was unintentional.Metamania

That's for the best. Invaders can easily one-shot you these days. You only stand a chance when you're on new game plus or so.

That said, don't be afraid to go online and look for summon signs if you run into trouble. Co-op trivializes even the hardest of bosses.

#68 Posted by Metamania (12018 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]With all this talk that's going on about Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I decided to give it another shot. Amazon has a brand-new copy of Dark Souls in stock for $20, for the XB360, so I decided to pick it up again. Wish me luck as I try my luck on it...oh and I plan on going through the game offline mode. That's one of the other reasons why I didn't like Dark Souls; I don't like the idea of people stepping into your own world and messing things up. I prefer to have a solo experience unless if there was co-op that had nothing like that enabled, as in able to fight each other or even hit each other, even if the hit was unintentional.c_rake

That's for the best. Invaders can easily one-shot you these days. You only stand a chance when you're on new game plus or so.

That said, don't be afraid to go online and look for summon signs if you run into trouble. Co-op trivializes even the hardest of bosses.

Yeah. I figured that, by this point, there would be gamers that are highly leveled and could kill me instantly. I have no intention of dying that quick. :P

That said, I'll try not to be. I don't mind co-cp help when necessary, just not at the expense of others that wish to ruin the experience for me.

#69 Posted by c_rakestraw (14722 posts) -

Yeah. I figured that, by this point, there would be gamers that are highly leveled and could kill me instantly. I have no intention of dying that quick. :P

That said, I'll try not to be. I don't mind co-cp help when necessary, just not at the expense of others that wish to ruin the experience for me.

Metamania

There's no friendly fire in co-op. Worst you can do to each other is parry each others attacks. Can't actually deal damage.

#70 Posted by idunnodude (2282 posts) -

[QUOTE="idunnodude"]

personally i never had a problem with the difficulty. its just the constant backtracking everytime you die. this was the worst part of the game for me. yeah its all fun and stuff when its the 1st time you are going through a level. but then it just becomes tedious and you find yourself doing suicide runs past everything just to get another crack at the boss, especially since the enemies spawn at the same exact place each time.

MentatAssassin

Wow, just...wow. I've never even heard of anyone doing this. I mean wouldnt you want the souls? Not to mention the revenge or additional practice?

If they introduce an easy mode this is probably what people will do. Run past enemies, kill the boss right quick then run to the window and start shouting to the world how they just beat Dark Souls the hardest game ever.

I weep for the future.

the hell are you "wowing" at? its a legitimate complaint, one that ive noticed is actually fairly prevalent in the dark souls community. like the other dude said, fighting the same exact enemies, in the same exact place, the same exact way over and over again gets extremely repetitive and boring. yeah i get it trial and error, and when i first discover a new area, i will go through it carefully and try to kill everything, these are the most enjoyable moments for me in the game.

but after carefully going through and conquering the area, im most likely gonna get owned by the boss the first time i face it. and going through all that same stuff over and over just to get another shot at the boss can get very tedious and boring. i get enough souls from killing the boss and all the soul item drops. souls aren't exactly that hard to come by.

if they introduce an easy mode and ppl do run past enemies and kill the boss and all that stuff you said, so what? why do you care about how they play? if they enjoy that then let them do it. it's not affecting your experience of the game in any way, you can still play on normal or hard mode and do what you like. i never understood this sense of entitlement that gamers have that "oh if you don't play it my way or the right way then you are a noob" or whatever, it's pathetic. btw, a good amount of ppl do this, i dont know how you've never heard of anyone doing this.

#71 Posted by AcidThunder (2332 posts) -

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"] There are only 2 enemies that can curse you and they rarely show up. Also there is an item that uncurses you rather easily which is really close to firelink shrine. There's never really a huge opportunity to get cursed unless you fall down a hole in the sewers, are trying to go to Ash Lake, or are facing Seath. My first playthrough I was cursed about 4 times (once in the depths, another at ash lake, and twice by Seath because I didn't bother moving out of the way during the boss fight). The first time I was dreading it because I heard about it, and how everyone thought it was a game breaker or horrible feature. I found them to be over-exaggerating, sure I had to run back to firelink from the depths, but it wasn't a pain in the ass, especially when you just run past enemies with your shield up.Minishdriveby



What exactly does curse do that it is hated so much?

It cuts your HP in half. Although there is an item the breaks the curse restoring your HP to full. Also it stacks so if you're cursed while cursed you HP will be 1/4 of what it should be. But really it's not that hard to break the curse.

Stacking was removed in patch 1.05.

#72 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="SulIy"] People only think Demon's Souls was harder because it was their first crack at these games. It's like how long time gamers who cut their teeth on NES Mario games thought that NSMBU was a pretty good game that finally presented a mild to sometimes good challenge, while other gamers think NSMBU is the hardest Mario game ever made. It's because I went through the bootcamp that is SMB 3 and SMB World that I don't see it as being that steep. Dark Souls seems easier to people who like these games because they already are used to the extreme patience needed to conquer them.

Newcomers to the series (or in my case, people who are seeing a dip in patience with grindfests and trial and error heavy games) see it as harder because they haven't built up the immunity to all the frustrations inherent int he game design. Even some core gamers who beat tough games like the original release of DMC3, God Hand, Bayonetta, NSMBU,and others find Dark Souls off putting, and these people like challenging games. Dark Souls just goes about creating it's challenge in all the wrong ways.

Minishdriveby

Nah, people think Demon's Souls is harder than Dark Souls because Demon's Souls is in fact harder than Dark Souls.

 

Not really... Magic users in demon's Souls could take down bosses in 2-3 hits. The majority of the time you could just stand outside the bosses attack range and cast spells until dead; i.e. Tower Knight, Dirty Colossus, Armor Spider, etc. The game is also shorter than Dark Souls if you're just playing the story. I finished Demon's Souls in 24 hours. I haven't beaten it multiple times like Dark Souls though.

If we're talking mages only, then they're about the same. You're limited on spells in Dark Souls but most of them can still wipe out bosses pretty easily so long as you manage properly.

If we take the rest of the game into context, such as melee only characters, Demon's Souls is harder.

I play as a Hunter in Demon's Souls that uses a spear and bow and if I play that in Dark Souls I have a much easier time. If I die in Demon's Souls I have to put up with losing half my health each time and inching closer to black world tendancy.

And, personally, I never fought a boss in Dark Souls that gives me even a shred of challenge as compared to Flamelurker. I still play Demon's Souls from time to time and Flamelurker still beats the crap out of me. Besides that, there are areas in Demon's Souls that just feel downright unfair at time, such as world 4-2 where you have to battle massive skeletons on a tiny walk path while those flying manta ray bastards fire their giant spears at you. I may hate the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls, but not nearly as much as my hatred for the Lake of Defilement and Shrine of Storms or even Tower of Latria before I got patient with the mindflayers.

 

#73 Posted by Justforvisit (5047 posts) -

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"][QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

What exactly does curse do that it is hated so much?

AcidThunder

It cuts your HP in half. Although there is an item the breaks the curse restoring your HP to full. Also it stacks so if you're cursed while cursed you HP will be 1/4 of what it should be. But really it's not that hard to break the curse.

Stacking was removed in patch 1.05.



Ah, so, pretty much like Soul Form in Demon Souls, hm and given there is an unlimited number of items you can gain from a merchant that cures it it really doesn't seem to be THAT bad as everybody makes it out to be.

Thanks btw. for the info :)

#74 Posted by Minishdriveby (10044 posts) -

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"][QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

Nah, people think Demon's Souls is harder than Dark Souls because Demon's Souls is in fact harder than Dark Souls.

 

IndianaPwns39

Not really... Magic users in demon's Souls could take down bosses in 2-3 hits. The majority of the time you could just stand outside the bosses attack range and cast spells until dead; i.e. Tower Knight, Dirty Colossus, Armor Spider, etc. The game is also shorter than Dark Souls if you're just playing the story. I finished Demon's Souls in 24 hours. I haven't beaten it multiple times like Dark Souls though.

If we're talking mages only, then they're about the same. You're limited on spells in Dark Souls but most of them can still wipe out bosses pretty easily so long as you manage properly.

If we take the rest of the game into context, such as melee only characters, Demon's Souls is harder.

I play as a Hunter in Demon's Souls that uses a spear and bow and if I play that in Dark Souls I have a much easier time. If I die in Demon's Souls I have to put up with losing half my health each time and inching closer to black world tendancy.

And, personally, I never fought a boss in Dark Souls that gives me even a shred of challenge as compared to Flamelurker. I still play Demon's Souls from time to time and Flamelurker still beats the crap out of me. Besides that, there are areas in Demon's Souls that just feel downright unfair at time, such as world 4-2 where you have to battle massive skeletons on a tiny walk path while those flying manta ray bastards fire their giant spears at you. I may hate the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls, but not nearly as much as my hatred for the Lake of Defilement and Shrine of Storms or even Tower of Latria before I got patient with the mindflayers.

 

Once again I never really had a hard time with Flamelurker (beat him on first try), but that was probably due to me being a long range mage character. I would agree that Dark Souls is infinitely easier than Demon's Souls for Melee characters. For the majority of the fights in Dark Souls you don't even have to dodge.

#75 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"] Not really... Magic users in demon's Souls could take down bosses in 2-3 hits. The majority of the time you could just stand outside the bosses attack range and cast spells until dead; i.e. Tower Knight, Dirty Colossus, Armor Spider, etc. The game is also shorter than Dark Souls if you're just playing the story. I finished Demon's Souls in 24 hours. I haven't beaten it multiple times like Dark Souls though.Minishdriveby

If we're talking mages only, then they're about the same. You're limited on spells in Dark Souls but most of them can still wipe out bosses pretty easily so long as you manage properly.

If we take the rest of the game into context, such as melee only characters, Demon's Souls is harder.

I play as a Hunter in Demon's Souls that uses a spear and bow and if I play that in Dark Souls I have a much easier time. If I die in Demon's Souls I have to put up with losing half my health each time and inching closer to black world tendancy.

And, personally, I never fought a boss in Dark Souls that gives me even a shred of challenge as compared to Flamelurker. I still play Demon's Souls from time to time and Flamelurker still beats the crap out of me. Besides that, there are areas in Demon's Souls that just feel downright unfair at time, such as world 4-2 where you have to battle massive skeletons on a tiny walk path while those flying manta ray bastards fire their giant spears at you. I may hate the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls, but not nearly as much as my hatred for the Lake of Defilement and Shrine of Storms or even Tower of Latria before I got patient with the mindflayers.

 

Once again I never really had a hard time with Flamelurker (beat him on first try), but that was probably due to me being a long range mage character. I would agree that Dark Souls is infinitely easier than Demon's Souls for Melee characters. For the majority of the fights in Dark Souls you don't even have to dodge.

Yeah. As a lightly armored melee character that was all about dodging I have no shame in saying that Flamelurker beat the living crap out of me several times.

And I'm one of those people that thinks the difficulty of these games is wildly overstated. 

#76 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"]

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

If we're talking mages only, then they're about the same. You're limited on spells in Dark Souls but most of them can still wipe out bosses pretty easily so long as you manage properly.

If we take the rest of the game into context, such as melee only characters, Demon's Souls is harder.

I play as a Hunter in Demon's Souls that uses a spear and bow and if I play that in Dark Souls I have a much easier time. If I die in Demon's Souls I have to put up with losing half my health each time and inching closer to black world tendancy.

And, personally, I never fought a boss in Dark Souls that gives me even a shred of challenge as compared to Flamelurker. I still play Demon's Souls from time to time and Flamelurker still beats the crap out of me. Besides that, there are areas in Demon's Souls that just feel downright unfair at time, such as world 4-2 where you have to battle massive skeletons on a tiny walk path while those flying manta ray bastards fire their giant spears at you. I may hate the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls, but not nearly as much as my hatred for the Lake of Defilement and Shrine of Storms or even Tower of Latria before I got patient with the mindflayers.

 

IndianaPwns39

Once again I never really had a hard time with Flamelurker (beat him on first try), but that was probably due to me being a long range mage character. I would agree that Dark Souls is infinitely easier than Demon's Souls for Melee characters. For the majority of the fights in Dark Souls you don't even have to dodge.

Yeah. As a lightly armored melee character that was all about dodging I have no shame in saying that Flamelurker beat the living crap out of me several times.

And I'm one of those people that thinks the difficulty of these games is wildly overstated. 

as far as melee characters go, i think being lightly armored for dodging is the best way to go against the flamelurker. i tried a shield with heavy armor and had a much harder time against him than when i tried to just not get hit at all.
#77 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -

With all this talk that's going on about Dark Souls and Demon's Souls, I decided to give it another shot. Amazon has a brand-new copy of Dark Souls in stock for $20, for the XB360, so I decided to pick it up again. Wish me luck as I try my luck on it...oh and I plan on going through the game offline mode. That's one of the other reasons why I didn't like Dark Souls; I don't like the idea of people stepping into your own world and messing things up. I prefer to have a solo experience unless if there was co-op that had nothing like that enabled, as in able to fight each other or even hit each other, even if the hit was unintentional.

Metamania

you can also die to get into undead mode so no other player invades your world or does any of the negative covenant stuff. i mean, there are times when the computer characters will invade you offline anyway, but playing as an undead online at least lets you use a lot of the benefits of online play. you can read warnings, give your own for health, help others for your humanity stat, or get some of the positive covenant effects.

plus i think it's a pretty neat layer of the world to see people jumping off cliffs to avoid human form.

#78 Posted by SulIy (112 posts) -

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

Shenmue_Jehuty

It would be an optional difficulty, how would other people playing an optional lower difficulty make it a worse experience for you? I just do not get this obsessive idea that other people playing the same game at a different level of difficulty somehow affects other peoples experiences. It doesn't apply to any other video game in the universe except this one. I'm not trying to start a fight here, I'm just genuinely baffled by this.

#79 Posted by Shenmue_Jehuty (5207 posts) -

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

SulIy

It would be an optional difficulty, how would other people playing an optional lower difficulty make it a worse experience for you? I just do not get this obsessive idea that other people playing the same game at a different level of difficulty somehow affects other peoples experiences. It doesn't apply to any other video game in the universe except this one. I'm not trying to start a fight here, I'm just genuinely baffled by this.

I just feel that Dark/Demons Souls is meant to be punishing and hard. Otherwise it's no different than the rest of the pack. When I played both games, that was a huge part of the experience for me and why I liked them so much. I can't imagine what it would be like if it were easy or even moderately hard. I feel like the difficulty also compliments the dark and dismall setting/vibe of the game.

#80 Posted by SulIy (112 posts) -
I just feel that Dark/Demons Souls is meant to be punishing and hard. Otherwise it's no different than the rest of the pack. When I played both games, that was a huge part of the experience for me and why I liked them so much. I can't imagine what it would be like if it were easy or even moderately hard. I feel like the difficulty also compliments the dark and dismall setting/vibe of the game.Shenmue_Jehuty
You didn't answer my question. You explained why playing in an easier mode would affect you, you didn't explain why OTHER people playing in an, again, entirely optional lower difficulty level would affect you. Because in the original response by you that I quoted, you seem to be saying an optional lower difficulty would ruin the game, even though obviously as a "core" fan of the series you would obviously not select that option. If the very presence of that option can ruin the game for you, please explain how, exactly, that actually works, as it doesn't seem to happen in any other video game ever made that features any difficulty options.
#81 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="Minishdriveby"] Once again I never really had a hard time with Flamelurker (beat him on first try), but that was probably due to me being a long range mage character. I would agree that Dark Souls is infinitely easier than Demon's Souls for Melee characters. For the majority of the fights in Dark Souls you don't even have to dodge.

LoG-Sacrament

Yeah. As a lightly armored melee character that was all about dodging I have no shame in saying that Flamelurker beat the living crap out of me several times.

And I'm one of those people that thinks the difficulty of these games is wildly overstated. 

as far as melee characters go, i think being lightly armored for dodging is the best way to go against the flamelurker. i tried a shield with heavy armor and had a much harder time against him than when i tried to just not get hit at all.

I still had a hard time with my tower knight, but I was able to absorb a bit more damage. With my first melee build one hit from the bastard straight up killed me. 

#82 Posted by idunnodude (2282 posts) -

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

SulIy

It would be an optional difficulty, how would other people playing an optional lower difficulty make it a worse experience for you? I just do not get this obsessive idea that other people playing the same game at a different level of difficulty somehow affects other peoples experiences. It doesn't apply to any other video game in the universe except this one. I'm not trying to start a fight here, I'm just genuinely baffled by this.

my thoughts exactly. i just don't get it. these games get so much praise just cuz they're hard. i think they are good games, i enjoyed them to an extent. other games give you a choice though, easy, normal or hard. im thinking this deserves more praise because they give the gamer a choice to how they want their experience to be with that game.
#83 Posted by Justforvisit (5047 posts) -

[QUOTE="SulIy"]

[QUOTE="Shenmue_Jehuty"]

To me, the charm of Dark Souls and Demon's Souls is how very difficult these games are. If you make them more accessable, they are no longer the same games. I'm very weary about these rumors and hope they are not true.

idunnodude

It would be an optional difficulty, how would other people playing an optional lower difficulty make it a worse experience for you? I just do not get this obsessive idea that other people playing the same game at a different level of difficulty somehow affects other peoples experiences. It doesn't apply to any other video game in the universe except this one. I'm not trying to start a fight here, I'm just genuinely baffled by this.

my thoughts exactly. i just don't get it. these games get so much praise just cuz they're hard. i think they are good games, i enjoyed them to an extent. other games give you a choice though, easy, normal or hard. im thinking this deserves more praise because they give the gamer a choice to how they want their experience to be with that game.



To sum it up in one sentence, I guess it's for the same reason arrogant game developers think "You HAVE to play MY game the way I intended it, and you are NOT allowed to find ways that are more effective / more fun to you than mine when I've NOT intended them"

#84 Posted by LoG-Sacrament (20397 posts) -

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

Yeah. As a lightly armored melee character that was all about dodging I have no shame in saying that Flamelurker beat the living crap out of me several times.

And I'm one of those people that thinks the difficulty of these games is wildly overstated. 

IndianaPwns39

as far as melee characters go, i think being lightly armored for dodging is the best way to go against the flamelurker. i tried a shield with heavy armor and had a much harder time against him than when i tried to just not get hit at all.

I still had a hard time with my tower knight, but I was able to absorb a bit more damage. With my first melee build one hit from the bastard straight up killed me. 

what i like to do is [spoiler] equip the thief ring and hide in the pillars before attacking. once i get him close to the point where he gets pissed off, i enchant my weapon before sneaking up on him. [/spoiler] there's still the chance that the battle lasts only a couple seconds, but i the battle always becomes much more manageable for me once i get past that point.
#85 Posted by c_rakestraw (14722 posts) -

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"] as far as melee characters go, i think being lightly armored for dodging is the best way to go against the flamelurker. i tried a shield with heavy armor and had a much harder time against him than when i tried to just not get hit at all.LoG-Sacrament

I still had a hard time with my tower knight, but I was able to absorb a bit more damage. With my first melee build one hit from the bastard straight up killed me. 

what i like to do is [spoiler] equip the thief ring and hide in the pillars before attacking. once i get him close to the point where he gets pissed off, i enchant my weapon before sneaking up on him. [/spoiler] there's still the chance that the battle lasts only a couple seconds, but i the battle always becomes much more manageable for me once i get past that point.

All I did was equip some flame resistant armor (think it was the Fluted Armor?) or a ring of flame resistance, packed a bunch of half- or full-moon grass, and went to town on him. Don't recall him being too difficult. Although, I was using the Crescent Falchion, so that's probably why. He was real weak to magic damage if I recall right. Only hard part was when he gets especially aggressive on the last quarter of health or so. Couldn't get into a pattern as easily.

#86 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

I still had a hard time with my tower knight, but I was able to absorb a bit more damage. With my first melee build one hit from the bastard straight up killed me. 

c_rake

what i like to do is [spoiler] equip the thief ring and hide in the pillars before attacking. once i get him close to the point where he gets pissed off, i enchant my weapon before sneaking up on him. [/spoiler] there's still the chance that the battle lasts only a couple seconds, but i the battle always becomes much more manageable for me once i get past that point.

All I did was equip some flame resistant armor (think it was the Fluted Armor?) or a ring of flame resistance, packed a bunch of half- or full-moon grass, and went to town on him. Don't recall him being too difficult. Although, I was using the Crescent Falchion, so that's probably why. He was real weak to magic damage if I recall right. Only hard part was when he gets especially aggressive on the last quarter of health or so. Couldn't get into a pattern as easily.

That's my problem. I get really stubborn in these type of games and kill things the way I want to instead of using tactics or enchanted armor/weapons to exploit the enemy's weakness. I know that sounds stupid, but it makes me feel more bad ass taking something down when I'm that much weaker. In the case of Demon's Souls I had very few problems doing this outside of Flamelurker (mainly due to his aggression and him draining my stamina), but killing him with an ordinary spear in leather armor remains very satisfying.

I think Dark Souls was much more manageable in letting you take things down in whatever way you wanted to, but there were still plenty of weaknesses you could exploit. 

#87 Posted by c_rakestraw (14722 posts) -

That's my problem. I get really stubborn in these type of games and kill things the way I want to instead of using tactics or enchanted armor/weapons to exploit the enemy's weakness. I know that sounds stupid, but it makes me feel more bad ass taking something down when I'm that much weaker. In the case of Demon's Souls I had very few problems doing this outside of Flamelurker (mainly due to his aggression and him draining my stamina), but killing him with an ordinary spear in leather armor remains very satisfying.

I think Dark Souls was much more manageable in letting you take things down in whatever way you wanted to, but there were still plenty of weaknesses you could exploit. 

IndianaPwns39

To be fair, I kind of stumbled upon that accidentally. Found that weapon by chance and ended up using it the whole way through despite not putting much points into magic and such. It wasn't until after that fight that I found out about its weakness.

#88 Posted by c_rakestraw (14722 posts) -

Idea: Instead of an easy mode, how about an option you can toggle that, upon death, respawns you right where you died and keeps your souls and humanity intact (though still reverts you to hollowed form if you were in human form when you died)? You know, sort of like those "story modes" that some games have, which remove the threat of game overs by giving you infinite continues or something. That way everyone is still learning how to the play the game the developers intended without punishing newcomers as harshly, while still giving the fans the exact same game they expect from the Souls series.

#89 Posted by idunnodude (2282 posts) -

Idea: Instead of an easy mode, how about an option you can toggle that, upon death, respawns you right where you died and keeps your souls and humanity intact (though still reverts you to hollowed form if you were in human form when you died)? You know, sort of like those "story modes" that some games have, which remove the threat of game overs by giving you infinite continues or something. That way everyone is still learning how to the play the game the developers intended without punishing newcomers as harshly, while still giving the fans the exact same game they expect from the Souls series.

c_rake
thats what ive been saying since day 1. the biggest annoyance with the game is running all the way back from the bonfire and going through the same crap over and over again, especially when the enemies respawn in the same exact place. almost ruined the experience for me.
#90 Posted by c_rakestraw (14722 posts) -

thats what ive been saying since day 1. the biggest annoyance with the game is running all the way back from the bonfire and going through the same crap over and over again, especially when the enemies respawn in the same exact place. almost ruined the experience for me.idunnodude

Yeah. Every time I make the run from Blighttown back to Firelink Shrine... ugh. That is just the worst. I don't mind it so much elsewhere.

#91 Posted by Metamania (12018 posts) -

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

#92 Posted by idunnodude (2282 posts) -

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Metamania
yeah it does. i went through that place as quick as possible, couldn't wait to get outta there. that place just kinda grosses me out too.
#93 Posted by applesxc47 (10761 posts) -

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Metamania

Anor Londo has some slight problems along those lines, but not to the same extent.

#94 Posted by gpuFX16 (1296 posts) -

[QUOTE="idunnodude"]thats what ive been saying since day 1. the biggest annoyance with the game is running all the way back from the bonfire and going through the same crap over and over again, especially when the enemies respawn in the same exact place. almost ruined the experience for me.c_rake

Yeah. Every time I make the run from Blighttown back to Firelink Shrine... ugh. That is just the worst. I don't mind it so much elsewhere.



While on a NG+ playthrough, I decided to avoid Blighttown's bonfires entirely, to use a homeward bone to get back to Firelink for that very reason. Did'nt matter much anyway, since I had to manually trek back *all* the way down there for the Demon Ruins section since I believe you cannot warp to a bonfire unless you have rested there. Touche, Dark Souls.

And yes Blighttown still suffers from the framerate issues. It's a toss up between that and the Catacombs/Tomb of Giants for most oppressive area. I mean Blighttown sucks already, but the stuttering just makes it that more trying. Thankfully, it's the only area where it gets choppy enough to be detrimental. 

#95 Posted by Justforvisit (5047 posts) -

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Metamania



I haven't noticed the slightest framerate issues there when I played it. Frustration, cursing and getting near insane mental state issues, yes, but framerate? Nope.

#96 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

Justforvisit



I haven't noticed the slightest framerate issues there when I played it. Frustration, cursing and getting near insane mental state issues, yes, but framerate? Nope.

Holy... really? Damn, I've never met anyone that didn't have those issues in Blighttown, so that's pretty cool. I play on PS3 and my friend plays on the 360 and we constantly make jokes about how terrible the framerate in Blighttown is.

#97 Posted by Justforvisit (5047 posts) -

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Does the Blightown area still have those frame rate issues that I remember hearing about for both versions? Not looking forward to that if that's still true.

IndianaPwns39



I haven't noticed the slightest framerate issues there when I played it. Frustration, cursing and getting near insane mental state issues, yes, but framerate? Nope.

Holy... really? Damn, I've never met anyone that didn't have those issues in Blighttown, so that's pretty cool. I play on PS3 and my friend plays on the 360 and we constantly make jokes about how terrible the framerate in Blighttown is.



Maybe a problem that only occours with NTSC Versions of the game?

Maybe the same thing that's going on with Killzone 1 where everyone from the US, NTSC region says it had choppy framerates and was unplayable due to that while the EU / PAL Version just worked perfectly smooth.

Just a wild guess though.

#98 Posted by MentatAssassin (3007 posts) -

the hell are you "wowing" at? its a legitimate complaint, one that ive noticed is actually fairly prevalent in the dark souls community.

idunnodude

if they introduce an easy mode and ppl do run past enemies and kill the boss and all that stuff you said, so what? why do you care about how they play? if they enjoy that then let them do it. it's not affecting your experience of the game in any way, you can still play on normal or hard mode and do what you like. i never understood this sense of entitlement that gamers have that "oh if you don't play it my way or the right way then you are a noob" or whatever, it's pathetic. btw, a good amount of ppl do this, i dont know how you've never heard of anyone doing this.

idunnodude

Maybe I just hoped I'd never hear of anyone doing this because it sounds like such a horrible way to play this game. It's not you it's me. I do have a lot of patience and have never been "bored" while playing Dark Souls so re-killing all those enemies doesnt feel like a chore to me.

As for the "entitlement" arguement. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Some people don't mind when other people talk during a movie, pointing out plot holes and ruining the experience for others. I for one like to shush those people so I can experience the movie the way the filmmakers intended. We still get the same movie. The talker just has to watch it my way or go see a Disney film where that sort of behavior is more welcome.

#99 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]

I haven't noticed the slightest framerate issues there when I played it. Frustration, cursing and getting near insane mental state issues, yes, but framerate? Nope.

Justforvisit

Holy... really? Damn, I've never met anyone that didn't have those issues in Blighttown, so that's pretty cool. I play on PS3 and my friend plays on the 360 and we constantly make jokes about how terrible the framerate in Blighttown is.



Maybe a problem that only occours with NTSC Versions of the game?

Maybe the same thing that's going on with Killzone 1 where everyone from the US, NTSC region says it had choppy framerates and was unplayable due to that while the EU / PAL Version just worked perfectly smooth.

Just a wild guess though.

I'm half tempted to import a copy of Dark Souls and test it for myself now :P

#100 Posted by Minishdriveby (10044 posts) -

[QUOTE="idunnodude"]thats what ive been saying since day 1. the biggest annoyance with the game is running all the way back from the bonfire and going through the same crap over and over again, especially when the enemies respawn in the same exact place. almost ruined the experience for me.c_rake

Yeah. Every time I make the run from Blighttown back to Firelink Shrine... ugh. That is just the worst. I don't mind it so much elsewhere.

I just use the Valley of the Drake's entrance. It's much faster and you avoid the majority of the enemies.