Currently playing MGS2....

.....wow what a game, production value and attention to detail were well ahead of its time and still stands strong even at today's standards, graphics are slightly dated even on the HD version but everything else makes up for that, amazing mix of solid exciting gameplay and story, no other series comes close to the quality of MGS series.

It says a lot about a game when it's still so good over ten years later.

I will one day play that and all the other MGS for myself one day.

@behardy24: you will be in for a real gaming treat for sure :) don't delay.

I could easily play any day because I can just buy the PS3 Legacy collection , but I want to play the MGS games in their home consoles they were made for. I just don't have the need to go out there and collect it for the PS2 versions at this time. I know I will do it one day, just not anytime soon from what I can foresee.

@behardy24: I'd pick the legacy collection if I were you. Much cheaper in the long run, and it performs better too. :P

I know I should get the legacy collection, but I want to experience those games on their original platforms.

Really loving the support you get from the guys on the codec, if you're stuck or can't remember what you have to do give these guys a call, they even call you when you are wondering around clueless, and they are actually a great help, Amazing game story so far is good makes me wanna keep going till the end.

Can't believe I have AC4, watchdogs, splintercell BL, farcry3, gta5, skyrim, and I'm getting more enjoyment out of a game that's over ten years old. Amazing

Ehhh I didn't think this game was that good. Then again, I'm not fond of the Metal Gear Solid series anyway.

@mastermetal777: what don't you like about the series my friend?

@xeno_ghost: I had an entire forum thread dedicated to why I don't like the series. It's probably lost now lol. But it boils down to these things:

- unnecessarily complicated controls

- interesting story that can't decide whether to be serious or campy

- way too much redundancy in the dialogue

- overwhelmingly long cutscenes

- boring scenery

- inconsistent AI

It does have its moments. Great boss fights and a very awesome premise and great characters. But it's a series that just frustrates me more than anything.

@mastermetal777:

"- unnecessarily complicated controls"

I don't find the controls that complicated but I see what you mean.

"- interesting story that can't decide whether to be serious or campy"

Nothing wrong with a serious interesting story with some over the top moments as long as the story remains interesting.

"- way too much redundancy in the dialogue"

I get that with some of the codec moments but you can just skip past the un useful dialogue.

"- overwhelmingly long cutscenes"

I actually love the cutscenes I think they are very well done for the time, and they lead nicely into the gameplay.

"- boring scenery"

I kinda get what you mean, but if you are playing a game for scenery your better off playing gta or something like that, the game is set on a tanker and a offshore clean up facility there isn't gonna be much in the way of scenery, prob why there are posters of sexy ass woman dotted around here and there lol.

"- inconsistent AI"

I've seen worse AI in modern games lol

I respect your opinion though bro, each to their own and all that :)

Inconsistent tone doesn't bother me, 'cause I think that's part of the appeal. But they aren't very well-written. Sometimes you'll have a character who's introduced, dumps a bunch of exposition on ya, and then gets killed off. It just feels like uneconomical writing.

@PannicAtack: that's another thing. Exposition dumps. That's a sign of bad writing because the characters should already know things unless it's a mystery or a twist - the latter being overused here. As a writer myself, I cringe whenever I hear exposition done poorly.

MGS2 became amazing for me when I realized the implication that nothing in the game was real.

MGS2 was amazing and so was the hype for it over ten years ago. People bought Zone of the Enders just to play a demo.

@BranKetra: I rented zone of the enders for the demo. :P

It's not a good game, imo. That game alone was the reason I quit the series 10 years ago. It's a shame because I really enjoyed MGS1.

What I don't like about it?

1. Convoluted story line
2. Convoluted dialogue
3. Long Cutscenes.

I mean really, GET TO THE FUCKING POINT.

@VERTIGO47: how can you like mgs1 and not 2, that's like saying I like bacon cheese burgers, but I don't like double bacon cheese burger meals.

I think earlier Metal Gear games are going the way of Shenmue, in the sense that modern gamers won't have the patience to attempt the control scheme/accept the style of gameplay.

@Heirren: true, the controls take some getting used to, and the fixed camera in 1,2 can be annoying, not a game breaker though.

The view in mgs3 is a lot better with a free wielding camera this time, plus the choice of the old style view which can come in handy.

I didn't care very much for MGS 2. I didn't think very many of the boss fights were fun, a lot of gameplay segments weren't very fun (swimming, anybody?) and the story just fell apart near the end.

@turtlethetaffer: when last did you play?

@xeno_ghost: Last year. So pretty recently. It's not a bad game but it's my least favorite MGS of the ones I've played.

@turtlethetaffer: I've just defeated Fatman, that boss battle was quite fun and challenging, I liked his motto "laugh and grow fat".

We'll see what the other boss battles are like, the story is keeping me entertained so far, can't wait to delve more into the story of the characters.

@xeno_ghost: I was totally fine with the story until the ending sequence. They throw around so much info and exposition that I just lost track of who was on what side, what side is doing what thing and the overall point.It became too muddled in its own convolution. Like I said I was fine with it up until the ending sequence.

I don't like MGS2 for the 3 main reasons I just mentioned. It's just flat out Convoluted GARBAGE and really Unnecessary. Like Turtlethetaffer just said, the ending in particular, completely threw me off, as well.

Gameplay is good, but I wouldn't put it up there on a pedestal.

@VERTIGO47: we'll see what I think when I get to the end :)

Not really. Raiden is completely clueless about what's going on. Having him know more than the player would ruin his purpose as a representative of the player. Also, MGS2 is a postmodern game, so a lot of the "bad" writing is intentional, since it refuses to accept the modern conventions of "good" writing in the first place.

Gamers today have become spoilt. Hardly any one ever complained about MGS2's controls back in the days. And Shenmue's stiff controls were the norm for third-person, behind-the-player, games at the time, e.g. like the early Tomb Raider games.

The whole point of the ending sequence, with all the double-crosses, triple-crosses, bizarre twists, and supernatural phenomena, was to confuse the hell out of the player, screw with your mind, challenge your suspension of disbelief, mock the player, and force you to question whether any of it is even real. Or at least that's what fans were saying for a long time, until they were proven right after Kojima's original 1999 design document became available and more or less said the same thing.

The combination of seriousness and campiness has always been one of the charms of the Metal Gear series, dealing with serious controversial issues most other video games wouldn't dare touch, yet willing to poke fun at itself in a way most other serious stories wouldn't dare to do either. MGS2 just took it to a new level, and kind of crossed the line by mocking the player throughout the game.

Also, MGS2 was regarded as having some of the best, if not the best, AI of its time, back when it released in 2001.

Well I'm not so sure about that. I remember one of the sore spots of talks of MGS--the original--was that the viewpoint could be open up a bit. Regardless, it is more broad and telling of the gamers of today. Back in the 80s and 90s, LEARNING the game was part of the fun. It is as if gamers want all fps to control the same, all 3rd person shooters to control the same, and etc.

As an example. Goldeneye. Today I find that game hard to play because of how much fps controls have changed. However, back when that game came out I played it no problem--just as smooth as I play Halo today. Gamers today don't care about the nuances of a games controls it seems.

@Jag85: I respectfully disagree. If writing is intended to be "bad", then it's campy. I get that. But the problem is that the series takes its story WAY too seriously for me to think that the intended silliness is supposed to be there.

It might have dealt with controversial issues, but to me that's just doing it for the sake of controversy instead of actually saying something about it. Just don't care for that style of writing, whether intentional or not.

@Jag85: Too bad a lot of it still didn't make any damn sense. I understand he wanted to mess with the player and that's fine but from a story standpoint a lot of it made incredibly little sense.

@mastermetal777: You like to write? So do I! What kind of stuff do you write?

@turtlethetaffer: I'm a huge sci-fi buff, but I'll write about anything really, except pure romance. Bleghhh lol. I even wrote a superhero novel when I was 16. I have to edit it some more, but I'm hoping to get it published.

@mastermetal777: Hey that sounds pretty cool! I like to write horror short stories and darker stuff myself, but I'm writing a novel right now that's a horror comedy about a Bermuda Triangle esque town in the US. It's coming along slowly but I think I'll make it one day. ATM I'm working on a dark comedy/ drama. I wish you luck with getting that published! What's the general premise?

*Slight spoiler alert* Ok so I've just blown solidus out of the sky, that boss battle was a good balance of challenge and fun factor.

And I just had a very interesting chat with the president very informative indeed. So far this is one of the best stories I've experienced in gaming, and apart from the supernatural elements not to far from a possible reality.

@turtlethetaffer: Nice. I hope you have luck with your endeavors :)

Mine is about a kid who gets lightning-based powers, and has to fight back against a shady corporation trying to give humans powers in order to dominate them and take over the world. pretty cliche, I know lol

AAA games have become increasingly homogenized today, with modern gamers expecting the same styles of play and control schemes across different genres.

Like I said to turtletheafter: "The whole point of the ending sequence, with all the double-crosses, triple-crosses, bizarre twists, and supernatural phenomena, was to confuse the hell out of the player, screw with your mind, challenge your suspension of disbelief, mock the player, and force you to question whether any of it is even real." The "bad" writing, the campiness, and the seemingly pointless references to controversial issues like incest and LGBT, all added to the suspension of disbelief and the postmodernism that MGS2 was going for. Yes, it's strange and weird, but that's what makes MGS2 all the more unique.

That's the point. It's not supposed to make sense. You can't make sense of something that's not supposed to make sense.

@mastermetal777: Honestly I think you could add a twist of satire into it to give it the edge it would need to stand out.

@turtlethetaffer: couldn't comment on the swimming part of the game you mentioned before because I hadn't got to it yet, having done it now I can't see what was so bad about it I found it well animated realistic, the controls are simple enough, I got disorientated a couple of times, I ran out of oxygen a few times and the sense of panic was palpable(my health was already low) the relief when finding an air pocket.... I managed to go in do what I needed to do with out dying or getting frustrated :P

I did get a little frustrated with the Nakita, but I realised if you keep inputting very slight movements to the missile left to right it stops it from boosting forwards and hitting the sides.

@VERTIGO47: "It's just flat out Convoluted GARBAGE and really Unnecessary"

Whaaaaaat!!!! I'm probably over half way through the game and I'm following the story with no problems it's all quite clear and im interested in all of the characters so far, and I want to get to know them and their past, I don't find the story convoluted in the slightest.

Okay. Good for you. But neither you or other MGS fans are gonna convince me otherwise.

If you enjoy the game, kudos. As I said earlier, I listed my 3 main reasons why I don't care about the series. And the only assurance you'll ever get is from Yourself, playing the game. Have Fun and Enjoy.

I like this game .Its a very interesting game.

@xeno_ghost: Maybe it's just me then IDK but I found the game inferior to the first game and the third game especially. Like I said, not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination but I definitely found more flaws than some people did.

@xeno_ghost: You're almost getting to the point when things start getting either "amazing" or "convoluted"... depending on who is playing the game.

@turtlethetaffer: A lot of fans already know about those "flaws", but they consider them to be strengths, not flaws. It all comes down to one's own interpretations of the game.

@Jag85: wheres the wooden stake to kill Vamp? He is doing my head in now lol

Vamp!!! Just die already!

Should be able to complete it today so will see how it goes.

@Jag85: Let me put it this way: the game made me sit through too much story for so little payoff/ sense.

@xeno_ghost: Are you playing on Normal? While difficult at first, Vamp shouldn't be too hard once you figure out his tricks and patterns.

@turtlethetaffer: Fair enough. MGS2 has always been a kind of "love it or hate it" kind of game. It requires a lot of investment, and multiple playthroughs, to be able to fully make sense of it. While it might seem "convoluted" and incohesive in parts, the plot and gameplay of MGS2 is actually very cohesive as a whole, but it took some years for fans to fully unravel the layers.

I only played it once and thought it was great. Bad parts? Of course, all of Kojimas stuff suffers in the same aspects. But the thing with MGS2 is that you've got to stick with it. I often hear how people will say "ah i couldn't take it anymore." Things in that vein. But it is one of those scenarios that requires one to finish it in order for the payoff to roll off unto the player.

The story is great, but like I said it suffers the same issues that most of the MGS games do--the overly long, sometimes preachy, and poorly deflivered codec conversations.

@Heirren: I'm not sure whether turtletheafter finished it or not. If he did, then I can understand what he means about the lack of "payoff", because that is one of the storytelling conventions that MGS2 subverts, requiring a lot of investment from players yet denying them that sense of rewarding satisfaction or "payoff" that we'd normally get from most other stories. And yeah, the codec screen isn't an enjoyable way to deliver lengthy conversations, but it makes sense in the context of MGS2's plot why so many of the conversations happen through the codec screen (I wouldn't want to spoil anything for Xeno_ghost).

@Jag85: "Are you playing on Normal? While difficult at first, Vamp shouldn't be too hard once you figure out his tricks and patterns"

**Spoiler alert** no lol I just mean you think you have killed him then he pops up again later on.