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Well, Square Enix recently tried to change the JRPG formula a bit with FF XIII and what happens? JRPG fans all over the world bash it for being different. Maybe they just stick with the original formula because that's what the fans want? As long as the game is good, I don't mind.
They didn't bash it for being different, they bashed it for being linear to the extreme. JRPGs have always been on rails, but FF 13 took it to a whole new level. With the exception of one outdoor area each zone was just a hallway. Likewise, the skill "tree" had no decisions to make. Just put points in the next skill.Well, Square Enix recently tried to change the JRPG formula a bit with FF XIII and what happens? JRPG fans all over the world bash it for being different. Maybe they just stick with the original formula because that's what the fans want? As long as the game is good, I don't mind.
Kaim91
The Final Fantasy games are full of innovation in fact that is one of the biggest tradition.
Then again you can mock WRPG too
· There is no main character just a machine phone system "if you want to be evil press one, now. If you want to be nice press two, now."
· Most of the times their chooses does not make that much different
· You stop evil to keep the world the same
· Bethesta has some of the most unrealistic look characters out there.
· WRPG enemies are no where as rich as any from JRPG. Normally they are just biff enemies from earlier in the game.
· Also their combat is dumb down.
· Most have boring story due to the open world. The story is little more that a group of fetch quests
· Most games have little innovation.
Well I'm a fan of all RPG's
And Btw, Dragon Quest IX is a perfect blend of JRPG art and Story, with WRPG Choice, Customization, and Extra Content.
So, looks like Squeenix is working With the good from both RPG types.
*Shakes head* Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles say hi. Bethesda should focus less on smack talking and more on making competent games.CarnageHeart
Games like these are still in the minority. Games like Final Fantasy sadly, are still the flagship JRPG titles and are made by people more resistant to change than ever. With the emergence of Atlus over the past several years the trend is changing, but JRPGs are decidedly bogged down by a lack of imagination for the most part. As long as the money keeps pouring in, this isn't going to change much.
As far as the ad, I think it's both very bold and clever.
i dont get why companys should smack talk it doesnt make you look better
all it shows is how rude and ignorant they are
all it shows is how rude and ignorant they areredskins26rocsEven when they point out valid criticisms?
[QUOTE="redskins26rocs"]all it shows is how rude and ignorant they aremuthsera666Even when they point out valid criticisms?
Mac vs PC. Coke vs Pepsi. 5-Hour Energy vs energy drinks. Etc etc. This is how advertising works.Their ciriticisms are valid for sure, but I don't see how putting out an ad like this would serve any purpose.You'd expect such a good developer not to do things like this.
Kaim91
Mac vs PC. Coke vs Pepsi. 5-Hour Energy vs energy drinks. Etc etc. This is how advertising works.[QUOTE="Kaim91"]
Their ciriticisms are valid for sure, but I don't see how putting out an ad like this would serve any purpose.You'd expect such a good developer not to do things like this.
reason58
[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]*Shakes head* Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles say hi. Bethesda should focus less on smack talking and more on making competent games.QuistisTrepe_
Games like these are still in the minority. Games like Final Fantasy sadly, are still the flagship JRPG titles and are made by people more resistant to change than ever. With the emergence of Atlus over the past several years the trend is changing, but JRPGs are decidedly bogged down by a lack of imagination for the most part. As long as the money keeps pouring in, this isn't going to change much.
As far as the ad, I think it's both very bold and clever.
There genre in which the majority of games are innovative doesn't exist. Squenix has always been very willing to mess around with the FF formula (in modern times, no two games have played alike). FF12 in particular made radical changes to the series (it was extremely non-linear, did away with random encounters and offered tunable AI) and infamously, FF11 was an online game. Bethesda ought to have used the money they spent on the ad to hire a team of QA testers.[QUOTE="reason58"][QUOTE="Kaim91"]Their ciriticisms are valid for sure, but I don't see how putting out an ad like this would serve any purpose.You'd expect such a good developer not to do things like this.Kaim91Mac vs PC. Coke vs Pepsi. 5-Hour Energy vs energy drinks. Etc etc. This is how advertising works.I don't approve of any advertising that talks crap about their rivals, be it Apple or Coke. Advertisements should focus on spreading the word about the good sides of their product, not the flaws of their rivals.Actually, it's doing both. It's pointing out reasons why the JRPG genre is somewhat stagnant, which leads to the conclusion that their game is not doing those things. So, it's kind of like a detergent company doing a commercial saying "tired of all your clothes coming out of the wash with the colors fading? Try our brand!" The conclusion would be that their brand is improved in that selected capacity.
Cheap controversy to stir exposure of the WRPGs games on the east or valid criticism?SciFiCat
Both. Controversy is always a sound way to attract attention and even Japanese RPG fans can't say that the ad is way off or anything.
Anyway, I'm sure that a market for non-linear, non-anime, realistic games exists in Japan as evidenced by respectable Grand Theft Auto sales (I also believe Oblivion did alright there, 200,000 copies or something like that).
Maybe Square could hit back with an ad with 4 cool looking people holding signs saying "imagination", "Vision", "Inspiration" and "Soul" -- That could teach Bethesda a thing or two of what they themselves lack.illmatic87
If by "imagination" you mean androgynous, anime(ish), blue-haired, infantile teen characters with annoyingly high-pitched voices fighting against smiling drops of water - please keep that imagination the hell away from me or I'll sic Dogmeat on it for a healthy dose of highly unimaginative post-nuclear pain.
*Shakes head* Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles say hi. Bethesda should focus less on smack talking and more on making competent games. I've played the Elder Scrolls series since its inception was hugely impressed by Oblivion (which while lacking in scope, was the most complete game Bethesda has ever shipped) but after Oblivion's much deserved success, Bethesda has backslid quite a bit, going back to their old model of throwing a bunch of stuff in until the ship date, then letting consumers find bugs and whatnot the hard way and then killing some of the bugs with post-release patches.CarnageHeartI think when ANY game developer has created a world as large as Oblivion, Capital Wasteland, Liberty City or The West in RDR, without bugs then this complaint would be valid but as it stands there are only about 6 games I can name off the top of my head that have attempted the feat this generation and all have had bugs...These are large open environments with tons of characters, quests, ai routines, physics, etc running around at once. Not even linear, confined games like Mass Effect 2, Uncharted 2, Gears of War2, COD MW2 are bug free. There are going to be mistakes made when you're one of 4 companies pushing technology and programming ahead. I EXPECT these games to have bugs because outside of Bethesda and Rockstar Nobody does it better.
· There is no main character just a machine phone system "if you want to be evil press one, now. If you want to be nice press two, now."
· Most of the times their chooses does not make that much different
· You stop evil to keep the world the same
· Bethesta has some of the most unrealistic look characters out there.
· WRPG enemies are no where as rich as any from JRPG. Normally they are just biff enemies from earlier in the game.
· Also their combat is dumb down.
· Most have boring story due to the open world. The story is little more that a group of fetch quests
· Most games have little innovation.
1. You're given a blank slate to create any character you want. if your character is 2d it is because you made them that way. Even in Fable 2 my fat, drunk, evil wife sacrificing terrible murderous landlord has more personality than any reluctant hero found in persona 3, FFVII, Odin Sphere... 2. depends on the game. 3. don't understand this statement. 4. realism in a videogame is a silly statement. 5. oh you mean like how Dragon Quest has 34 different slimes throughout the game or Persona games color swap creatures and so do FF games? Once again it depends on the game you're playing. 6. meh 7. most have decent stories or hundreds of other side stories to flesh out a world.I have never need to start over in a game because of am error in a JRPG but I did in Bethesda's fallout 3. At one point I could not go to a story important area without the game freezing.wiouds
Read this again:
I think when ANY game developer has created a world as large as Oblivion, Capital Wasteland, Liberty City or The West in RDR, without bugs then this complaint would be valid but as it stands there are only about 6 games I can name off the top of my head that have attempted the feat this generation and all have had bugs...These are large open environments with tons of characters, quests, ai routines, physics, etc running around at once. Not even linear, confined games like Mass Effect 2, Uncharted 2, Gears of War2, COD MW2 are bug free. There are going to be mistakes made when you're one of 4 companies pushing technology and programming ahead. I EXPECT these games to have bugs because outside of Bethesda and Rockstar Nobody does it better.smerlus
Oblivion was a load consolized crap. I am sorry that they had to put level scaling in there but that was exactly was oblivion did. But thats ok, They can act high and mighty. I don't care for WRPG tabla Rasa style is boring and I can't get into the character or story at all. So to each there own, its a dumb move the Bethesda part, a company need to get attention off of its own merit and not a silly ad like this.
[QUOTE="Kaim91"]They didn't bash it for being different, they bashed it for being linear to the extreme. JRPGs have always been on rails, but FF 13 took it to a whole new level. With the exception of one outdoor area each zone was just a hallway. Likewise, the skill "tree" had no decisions to make. Just put points in the next skill.Agreed, I find some JRPG's lack some great role playing elements, the linear enviornments tend to ruin them for me.:(Well, Square Enix recently tried to change the JRPG formula a bit with FF XIII and what happens? JRPG fans all over the world bash it for being different. Maybe they just stick with the original formula because that's what the fans want? As long as the game is good, I don't mind.
reason58
"The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression."
That sums it up. The US invented this game type with D&D, but the US has evolved beyond it. Japan is stuck with the same game as Final Fantasy 1, Dragon Quest 1.
reason58
apparently youve never played FF1 or DQ1 before.
[QUOTE="reason58"]
"The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression."
That sums it up. The US invented this game type with D&D, but the US has evolved beyond it. Japan is stuck with the same game as Final Fantasy 1, Dragon Quest 1.
warmaster670
apparently youve never played FF1 or DQ1 before.
hah A challenge to my pride. Very good."The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression."
That sums it up. The US invented this game type with D&D, but the US has evolved beyond it. Japan is stuck with the same game as Final Fantasy 1, Dragon Quest 1.
reason58
Demon's Souls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALL WRPGs
[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]*Shakes head* Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles say hi. Bethesda should focus less on smack talking and more on making competent games. I've played the Elder Scrolls series since its inception was hugely impressed by Oblivion (which while lacking in scope, was the most complete game Bethesda has ever shipped) but after Oblivion's much deserved success, Bethesda has backslid quite a bit, going back to their old model of throwing a bunch of stuff in until the ship date, then letting consumers find bugs and whatnot the hard way and then killing some of the bugs with post-release patches.smerlusI think when ANY game developer has created a world as large as Oblivion, Capital Wasteland, Liberty City or The West in RDR, without bugs then this complaint would be valid but as it stands there are only about 6 games I can name off the top of my head that have attempted the feat this generation and all have had bugs...These are large open environments with tons of characters, quests, ai routines, physics, etc running around at once. Not even linear, confined games like Mass Effect 2, Uncharted 2, Gears of War2, COD MW2 are bug free. There are going to be mistakes made when you're one of 4 companies pushing technology and programming ahead. I EXPECT these games to have bugs because outside of Bethesda and Rockstar Nobody does it better.
I allow for more bugs in open world games than in more enclosed games, but sadly, both Red Dead and Fallout had ridiculous numbers of bugs (moreso than in their same gen predecessors, Oblivion and GTA4).
I really loved Red Dead and wanted to play through the whole thing, but it froze on me so many times I eventually threw up my hands and traded it in. And Fallout shipped very buggy and two of the expansion packs were nonfuctional out of the gate. Seriously, the fact that games can be retroactively patched doesn't excuse companies charging us full price for games which don't run reasonably well.
[QUOTE="Kaim91"][QUOTE="reason58"] Mac vs PC. Coke vs Pepsi. 5-Hour Energy vs energy drinks. Etc etc. This is how advertising works.muthsera666I don't approve of any advertising that talks crap about their rivals, be it Apple or Coke. Advertisements should focus on spreading the word about the good sides of their product, not the flaws of their rivals.Actually, it's doing both. It's pointing out reasons why the JRPG genre is somewhat stagnant, which leads to the conclusion that their game is not doing those things. So, it's kind of like a detergent company doing a commercial saying "tired of all your clothes coming out of the wash with the colors fading? Try our brand!" The conclusion would be that their brand is improved in that selected capacity.
I play both but I like JRPG more. The gameplay, story, and character are normally better.
When I think if stagnant game type I think more of WRPG than JRPG. Fallout 3 was just like Obivion but the range and melee weapons in importance. Then there the V.A.S.T. system that remind me of JRPG games. (It remind me so it may not remind you but that does not change it.) Those two games place like Two World, Risen, Gothic 3, Neverwinter night 2, and Baldur's gate.
JRPG makers have do foolish thing like take out the world map.
[QUOTE="Treflis"]Well they are right that JRPG follow the exact same formula as they did over ten years ago.wiouds
For instance you have Hack and Slash RPG games like Diablo and Dungeon Siege.
Aswell as Sandbox RPG games like Elder Scrolls: Morrowind and Oblivion.
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="Treflis"]Well they are right that JRPG follow the exact same formula as they did over ten years ago.Treflis
For instance you have Hack and Slash RPG games like Diablo and Dungeon Siege.
Aswell as Sandbox RPG games like Elder Scrolls: Morrowind and Oblivion.
If you're talking variety then JRPGs have sub genres as Action-role-playing, Strategy and Turn based system. That company might not like those types of games but they still appeal to millions. They wouldn't see more of them coming if they weren't selling. To some me included, those aren't even flaws.
That company needs to understand that:
-Not every JRPG is Final Fantasy.
-Not every JRPG revolves around a group of people going on a quest to save the world from evil.
-The majority of those who play JRPGs would rather have an androgynous male character as a lead than your usual tough guy. Not convinced? Look at Neir, they get Replicant and we don't.
-It's a Role-Playing game, it's only natural that it includes many cut-scenes however, gameplay to cutscene ration is three times bigger.
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="Treflis"]Well they are right that JRPG follow the exact same formula as they did over ten years ago.Treflis
For instance you have Hack and Slash RPG games like Diablo and Dungeon Siege.
Aswell as Sandbox RPG games like Elder Scrolls: Morrowind and Oblivion.
And more complex such as Fallout1&2(greater then any console RPG, ever made), D&D type such as Baldur's Gate and countless others. Fact is, WRPG's have more variety then JRPG's will ever have. Just no need to compare.
A quote: (HTML bug :P)
Fact is, WRPG's have more variety then JRPG's will ever have. Just no need to compare.
quoted for truth. To put this in perspective, they say that the FF Job system is really open ended, right? Try comparing that to NWN 2's character creation system. Yep.
They say Demon's Souls is really good, daresay better than other WRPGs? Ever played Fallout? Baldur's Gate II? Yep.
But, but the stories in FF games are better! It can basically be distilled down to some random group ridding the world of an ancient/new evil. Ever played Planescape Torment? Yep.
Valid criticism and it is also a 100% proven ad strategy.
You saw it and posted it here for everyone to comment about thus creating a buzz.
You did everything that they wanted you to do. You are spreading the word.
Good job Bethesda. :)
Squenix has always been very willing to mess around with the FF formula (in modern times, no two games have played alike). CarnageHeart
You're being a little too generous here. I haven't played anything beyond FFX, but from everything I've read, the changes were more like tweaks than anything that truly revamped the series. I'll give SE credit for at least attempting to put out some non-FF titles this gen, even if they were decidedly mediocre. But that's more a sign of just how far SE has fallen in terms of ability and imagination. It shows SE is willing to do something different once in awhile, even if they don't really know how, outside of their contributions to the PSP of course.
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