Aren't there any RPG games where you play as the bad guy and win in the end?

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#1 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

I don't know of any, if there is please let me know.

I'm tired of rpg's having lame whiney little d-bags for protagonists. Take Tales of Graces f for example. Asbel is kind of a douche. Don't get me wrong, the game is great, combat system is great, the initial story is decent, but I didn't like Asbel and the whole "freindship theme" of the game. It was cheesy as could be and almost intolerable at times for me.

Even games where you are the good guy, but you are a badazz. I hate little cheesy d-bag protagonists.

#2 Posted by wiouds (5065 posts) -

If you do not want those type of character you can pick the hollow shell place holders or those with brooding attitudes and whine about their past.

#3 Posted by Tazzman1000 (1108 posts) -
In mass effect and dragon age you can be a rouge otherwise no there aren't many out there. Its all hollywood really, story lines are becoming unoriginal to please the general public and make a ton of money.
#4 Posted by kaealy (1453 posts) -
NWN2: Mask of the betrayer. I don't think any evil ending beats that, you become a god of sorts that every one I mean EVERY one fear and your whole existences is to devour other men and gods alike.
#5 Posted by Metamania (11971 posts) -

Warcraft I and II, if I remember correctly, allowed you control of the Orcs. You could play their campaign and still win. Not sure about WC III though.

#6 Posted by EvilSelf (3619 posts) -

Fallout and the Elder Scrolls series - you can do whatever you want and be whoever you want.

#7 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

That sucks. I don't have a good gaming pc, just the standard hardware in a laptop.

I know there is always Elder scrolls or fallout, but in all reality you arent the real bad guy. You can go around and do bad things but there is the same storyline.

Im talking about a rpg where the actual storyline is played from the antagonist's point of view. For example, lets just take FF7. Normally you play as cloud (he is a awesome protagonists by the way, so no complaints about him). I want a FF where you play through Sephiroth's point of view or something like that. Now that was just an exaple, I would really like a new game like that besides a new FF like that.

A rpg where the whole story is played through the antagonist's point of view would be sweet.

#8 Posted by kaealy (1453 posts) -

That sucks. I don't have a good gaming pc, just the standard hardware in a laptop.

I know there is always Elder scrolls or fallout, but in all reality you arent the real bad guy. You can go around and do bad things but there is the same storyline.

Im talking about a rpg where the actual storyline is played from the antagonist's point of view. For example, lets just take FF7. Normally you play as cloud (he is a awesome protagonists by the way, so no complaints about him). I want a FF where you play through Sephiroth's point of view or something like that. Now that was just an exaple, I would really like a new game like that besides a new FF like that.

A rpg where the whole story is played through the antagonist's point of view would be sweet.

ristactionjakso
Nier for ps3 or 360 then, you'll need to replay the game twice though.
#10 Posted by Mozuckint (786 posts) -

Dawn of War 2: Retribution has RPG elements to it(as does Vanilla and Chaos rising bar the multiple playable races), and feels a lot like Warcraft(Bar the base building) if it counts.

You can play through every mission in the main campaign through the Eyes of Chaos and change the events and ultimate ending of the game for evil purposes.

Lord of the Rings: The Third Age has an "Evil mode", but it isn't so much a replaying of the game as it is a a resimulating of key battles in the main story as the enemy rather than the protagonist(all tactics open. If there were 6 waves of enemies to go through when you tried it as good, you will get 6 waves of enemies to kill the main characters with.)

#11 Posted by Sharpie125 (3904 posts) -

Knights of the Old Republic? The Sith Lords? Those are the first games I think of when talking about RPG morality. And yes, your fall to the dark side in KoTOR 1 is dramatic and tragic for everyone involved.

#12 Posted by Metamania (11971 posts) -

I don't know of any, if there is please let me know.

I'm tired of rpg's having lame whiney little d-bags for protagonists. Take Tales of Graces f for example. Asbel is kind of a douche. Don't get me wrong, the game is great, combat system is great, the initial story is decent, but I didn't like Asbel and the whole "freindship theme" of the game. It was cheesy as could be and almost intolerable at times for me.

Even games where you are the good guy, but you are a badazz. I hate little cheesy d-bag protagonists.

ristactionjakso

On another note, is Tales Of Graces F worthy of a purchase? I've been hearing nothing but good things about the game.

#13 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

I don't know of any, if there is please let me know.

I'm tired of rpg's having lame whiney little d-bags for protagonists. Take Tales of Graces f for example. Asbel is kind of a douche. Don't get me wrong, the game is great, combat system is great, the initial story is decent, but I didn't like Asbel and the whole "freindship theme" of the game. It was cheesy as could be and almost intolerable at times for me.

Even games where you are the good guy, but you are a badazz. I hate little cheesy d-bag protagonists.

Metamania

On another note, is Tales Of Graces F worthy of a purchase? I've been hearing nothing but good things about the game.

Yes. It is a great game. But it does get cheesy with the whole friendship theme in the game. And some parts of the game can feel drawn out. But overall the game is great and worthy of a $60 purchase. The combat system is addicting and the initial story is great. The titles and artes you learn and customize to your characters add depth to the combat too. I finished the game in about 55 hrs. There are many sidequests to do, you get a new game plus after beating the game, you get another story which takes place about 6 months after the original story, and after beating the original story you unlock a bonus dungeon which gets pretty tough. If you like rpg's then go on and buy it, you wont regret it. Money well spent.

#14 Posted by Minishdriveby (9739 posts) -
I might be mistaken, but I think you play the badguy in Overlord... never played it I just remember seeing a commercial or ad for it.
#15 Posted by lazyathew (3748 posts) -

The best example I can come up with is Tales of Vesperia. You are not evil exactly, but the main character, Yuri, is a criminal who doesn't mind breaking the law and commiting murder to acompish his goal. One of the big antagonsts is a knight, who is after him because of breaking the law.

#16 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

The best example I can come up with is Tales of Vesperia. You are not evil exactly, but the main character, Yuri, is a criminal who doesn't mind breaking the law and commiting murder to acompish his goal. One of the big antagonsts is a knight, who is after him because of breaking the law.

lazyathew

Ok sounds awesome. What console is it for? I love Tales games.

#17 Posted by TheBlackKnight3 (1586 posts) -

Try the Shin Megami Tensei series, not including Persona. I highly suggest the Devil Survivor games for the DS/3DS if you have that.

#18 Posted by Metamania (11971 posts) -

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

I don't know of any, if there is please let me know.

I'm tired of rpg's having lame whiney little d-bags for protagonists. Take Tales of Graces f for example. Asbel is kind of a douche. Don't get me wrong, the game is great, combat system is great, the initial story is decent, but I didn't like Asbel and the whole "freindship theme" of the game. It was cheesy as could be and almost intolerable at times for me.

Even games where you are the good guy, but you are a badazz. I hate little cheesy d-bag protagonists.

ristactionjakso

On another note, is Tales Of Graces F worthy of a purchase? I've been hearing nothing but good things about the game.

Yes. It is a great game. But it does get cheesy with the whole friendship theme in the game. And some parts of the game can feel drawn out. But overall the game is great and worthy of a $60 purchase. The combat system is addicting and the initial story is great. The titles and artes you learn and customize to your characters add depth to the combat too. I finished the game in about 55 hrs. There are many sidequests to do, you get a new game plus after beating the game, you get another story which takes place about 6 months after the original story, and after beating the original story you unlock a bonus dungeon which gets pretty tough. If you like rpg's then go on and buy it, you wont regret it. Money well spent.

Thanks man. This will be my first purchase when I pick up a Playstation 3 in the near future!

#19 Posted by Metamania (11971 posts) -

[QUOTE="lazyathew"]

The best example I can come up with is Tales of Vesperia. You are not evil exactly, but the main character, Yuri, is a criminal who doesn't mind breaking the law and commiting murder to acompish his goal. One of the big antagonsts is a knight, who is after him because of breaking the law.

ristactionjakso

Ok sounds awesome. What console is it for? I love Tales games.

It's been made available for 360 and PS3, but the PS3 version is Japanese only, so you may as well get the 360 version, which has been released here. It's my favorite RPG on the 360 and one of the best Tales games I've played. Very addicting!

#20 Posted by t1striker (1549 posts) -

The witcher games your not really a good guy or bad guy in those.

#21 Posted by lazyathew (3748 posts) -

[QUOTE="lazyathew"]

The best example I can come up with is Tales of Vesperia. You are not evil exactly, but the main character, Yuri, is a criminal who doesn't mind breaking the law and commiting murder to acompish his goal. One of the big antagonsts is a knight, who is after him because of breaking the law.

ristactionjakso

Ok sounds awesome. What console is it for? I love Tales games.

I re-read what I wrote and I think it may be a little misleading so I should clarify. (It's for the 360, though someone already said that.) I said he doesn't mind killing to acomplish his goal, which upon re-reading gave me the impression he will kill someone who has nothing to do with his goal just to help accomplish it. Which is not true. What I mean is, he kills people he truly believes deseve it. People he believes the legal system cannot adequetely punish. He has good intentions, protecting innocent people from criminals, but according to the law, his motives make him a criminal himself. If you ever watched the show Death Note, it is a very similer situation. Yuri is like Lght, and the knight is like L.

#22 Posted by robo37 (21 posts) -

Fable (1,The Lost Chapters,2,3)

Star Wars: KOTOR (1,2), Jade Empire, Mass Effect (1,2,3), Dragon Age (Awakening,2,3)

King's Field 4, Demons' Souls, Dark Souls

Elder Scrolls (3,4), Fallout (3, New Vagas, 4)

Dues Ex (1,2,3)

Overlord (1,2)

It's pretty hard to find an RPG that doesn't have a good/evil alignment system nowadays.

#23 Posted by Starshine_M2A2 (4074 posts) -

If you do a bit of RPing in Mass Effect you can make Shepard a sleeper agent for the Reapers, make all the Renegade choices and end the third game by allowing the Reapers to harvest the galaxy. Although, he still whines about it...

#24 Posted by dakan45 (18556 posts) -
overlord 1 and 2
#25 Posted by 190586385885857957282413308806 (13084 posts) -
The best games that I saw do Evil are the KOTOR games, Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen and NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer. Those are games you can actually be totally evil and the story/ending will progress with you. Fallout 1 and 2 you can be pretty destructive but the endings don't make you feel like an evil bastard as well as the games mentioned above.
#26 Posted by wiouds (5065 posts) -

The best games that I saw do Evil are the KOTOR games, Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen and NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer. Those are games you can actually be totally evil and the story/ending will progress with you. Fallout 1 and 2 you can be pretty destructive but the endings don't make you feel like an evil bastard as well as the games mentioned above.smerlus

I think the TC wants a game with a main character instead of place holder like in the games you pointed out.

#27 Posted by 190586385885857957282413308806 (13084 posts) -

[QUOTE="smerlus"]The best games that I saw do Evil are the KOTOR games, Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen and NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer. Those are games you can actually be totally evil and the story/ending will progress with you. Fallout 1 and 2 you can be pretty destructive but the endings don't make you feel like an evil bastard as well as the games mentioned above.wiouds

I think the TC wants a game with a main character instead of place holder like in the games you pointed out.

If I give you a box or crayons and all you come up with is penis pictures...that's your fault. In other words if you're given a blank character and you can't relate to the character you create....you're a peni...i mean it's your fault. Anyways it just sounded like the topic creator was tired of JRPG characters written by game designers with the skill of 11 year olds and wanted something that japanese developers haven't been able to do correctly since OB: MOTBQ which was an SNES game.
#28 Posted by wiouds (5065 posts) -

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

[QUOTE="smerlus"]The best games that I saw do Evil are the KOTOR games, Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen and NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer. Those are games you can actually be totally evil and the story/ending will progress with you. Fallout 1 and 2 you can be pretty destructive but the endings don't make you feel like an evil bastard as well as the games mentioned above.smerlus

I think the TC wants a game with a main character instead of place holder like in the games you pointed out.

If I give you a box or crayons and all you come up with is penis pictures...that's your fault. In other words if you're given a blank character and you can't relate to the character you create....you're a peni...i mean it's your fault. Anyways it just sounded like the topic creator was tired of JRPG characters written by game designers with the skill of 11 year olds and wanted something that japanese developers haven't been able to do correctly since OB: MOTBQ which was an SNES game.

If they give you just crayons and tell you to paint. Since crayons has nothing to go with painting, you can not paint.

The same thing with place holder and story telling.

Place holders always feel distant from any story you are watching. What relationship they have is cheap and not deep. They are all more of outside dealing with the problems.

#30 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

I'm really suprised there isn't any RPG's that have you play the role of the antagonist on console. All the games with the choice to be good or bad still have the same storyline ending. I thought maybe there would be a RPG game where you are the bad guy from the get go and there is a party of good guys coming after you the whole game.

#31 Posted by 190586385885857957282413308806 (13084 posts) -

If they give you just crayons and tell you to paint. Since crayons has nothing to go with painting, you can not paint.

The same thing with place holder and story telling.

Place holders always feel distant from any story you are watching. What relationship they have is cheap and not deep. They are all more of outside dealing with the problems.

wiouds
Part of me seriously doubts you play any of these wrpgs you're bent on trashing but another part of me can imagine you just sitting there all stink faced wishing you could hear your protagonists pre-pubescent voice and instead of choosing a dialogue option in a game you wish the AI would automatically pick the boy scout option as you grumble through the game. Once again, if you're unable to create an interesting character when you're given a blank slate, then it's nobody fault but your own. I'm going to send you a blank check and watch you complain i'm poor because you only wrote $1.00 on it.
#32 Posted by 190586385885857957282413308806 (13084 posts) -

I'm really suprised there isn't any RPG's that have you play the role of the antagonist on console. All the games with the choice to be good or bad still have the same storyline ending. I thought maybe there would be a RPG game where you are the bad guy from the get go and there is a party of good guys coming after you the whole game.

ristactionjakso
I think OB:MOTBQ may be your best bet then. I'm not sure if it's on Wii's virtual console or anything but anyways you play as a character in charge of an army that is trying to fend off an invasion but you can actually be a ruthless general the whole game even as far as having the country you fight for stop trusting you. What's interesting about this game is not only do you do this by decisions you make but also through gameplay by bullying the enemy's army (by sending your strongest troops to slaughter their weakest)
#33 Posted by wiouds (5065 posts) -

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

If they give you just crayons and tell you to paint. Since crayons has nothing to go with painting, you can not paint.

The same thing with place holder and story telling.

Place holders always feel distant from any story you are watching. What relationship they have is cheap and not deep. They are all more of outside dealing with the problems.

smerlus

Part of me seriously doubts you play any of these wrpgs you're bent on trashing but another part of me can imagine you just sitting there all stink faced wishing you could hear your protagonists pre-pubescent voice and instead of choosing a dialogue option in a game you wish the AI would automatically pick the boy scout option as you grumble through the game. Once again, if you're unable to create an interesting character when you're given a blank slate, then it's nobody fault but your own. I'm going to send you a blank check and watch you complain i'm poor because you only wrote $1.00 on it.

I play a huge number of WRPG but I am not going to be blind to their weakness. You seem to be one of those that would nitpick everything about JRPG while overlooking the weakness in WRPG.

It more like being able to pick the color of the check to be purple, pink, or yellow and also picking the last digitis of the cents. Even then the check is still not as valueable as other checks you can not pick from.

#34 Posted by koospetoors (3244 posts) -

overlord 1 and 2dakan45

Fantastic choice, gosh it was good to be bad in that game.

There's also the first Fable game, you can be pretty nasty (and besides, you look quite badass when evil, sprouting horns and having this deathly red aura around you) and the evil ending was also quite cool.

#35 Posted by 190586385885857957282413308806 (13084 posts) -

I play a huge number of WRPG but I am not going to be blind to their weakness. You seem to be one of those that would nitpick everything about JRPG while overlooking the weakness in WRPG.

It more like being able to pick the color of the check to be purple, pink, or yellow and also picking the last digitis of the cents. Even then the check is still not as valueable as other checks you can not pick from.

wiouds
because you don't like something doesn't make it a weakness. When you see me say Oblivion has a great story, then you would know i'm overlooking a weakness, but to sit there and say NWN 2 MotB has a bad story and a place holder character when it was has one of the better RPG stories/dialogue of 90% of recent RPGs and also do the same for KOTOR, who Lucas Arts has said is cannon and many fans/critics say is better than the last 3 Star Wars movies...then you're delusional.
#36 Posted by Lebron181 (837 posts) -

Oh man. The rush of killing little annoying girls with their high pitch.

Forget about that, how about making them extinct!!!

#37 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

I'm really suprised there isn't any RPG's that have you play the role of the antagonist on console. All the games with the choice to be good or bad still have the same storyline ending. I thought maybe there would be a RPG game where you are the bad guy from the get go and there is a party of good guys coming after you the whole game.

ristactionjakso

Antagonist doesn't necessarily mean evil, it just means someone that's trying to impede the progress of the protagonist. So if you wrote a book about a down on his luck mad scientist trying to destroy the world, the antagonist would be the typical hero/James Bond type trying to stop him. I know that has nothing to do with anything, just throwing that out there.

I think the reason there are so few games were you play as someone directly evil is because the video game industry kind of gets enough flak for violence as it is. If you try to make the main character likeable or relatable, it's a sort of defense mechanism. Like in The Darkness, you're a demon possessed hitman working for the mob, but it has some of the more soul crushing moments in a video game that make you legitimately care for Jackie. At least with place holder RPGs, if anyone tried to criticize Knights of the Old Republic for having an insanely evil ending Bioware could have just said "Well, you don't have to play like that".

Or maybe it's just because being that destructive and murder-y can wear thin quickly. Like Kratos in GoWIII. I remember when you just blatantly murder Hera I said "well, that escalated quickly". I think GoWIII had to introduce Pandora to get a little bit of Kratos' humanity back, or it just would have failed in an area a lot of people already disliked.

#38 Posted by Dracula68 (33102 posts) -
Others may have said this but there is no "winning" in an RPG.
#39 Posted by thom_maytees (3669 posts) -

The best example I can come up with is Tales of Vesperia. You are not evil exactly, but the main character, Yuri, is a criminal who doesn't mind breaking the law and commiting murder to acompish his goal. One of the big antagonsts is a knight, who is after him because of breaking the law.

lazyathew

This would make Yuri an anti-hero, not an antagonist.

#40 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

I'm really suprised there isn't any RPG's that have you play the role of the antagonist on console. All the games with the choice to be good or bad still have the same storyline ending. I thought maybe there would be a RPG game where you are the bad guy from the get go and there is a party of good guys coming after you the whole game.

IndianaPwns39

Antagonist doesn't necessarily mean evil, it just means someone that's trying to impede the progress of the protagonist. So if you wrote a book about a down on his luck mad scientist trying to destroy the world, the antagonist would be the typical hero/James Bond type trying to stop him. I know that has nothing to do with anything, just throwing that out there.

I think the reason there are so few games were you play as someone directly evil is because the video game industry kind of gets enough flak for violence as it is. If you try to make the main character likeable or relatable, it's a sort of defense mechanism. Like in The Darkness, you're a demon possessed hitman working for the mob, but it has some of the more soul crushing moments in a video game that make you legitimately care for Jackie. At least with place holder RPGs, if anyone tried to criticize Knights of the Old Republic for having an insanely evil ending Bioware could have just said "Well, you don't have to play like that".

Or maybe it's just because being that destructive and murder-y can wear thin quickly. Like Kratos in GoWIII. I remember when you just blatantly murder Hera I said "well, that escalated quickly". I think GoWIII had to introduce Pandora to get a little bit of Kratos' humanity back, or it just would have failed in an area a lot of people already disliked.

O you know what I meant with the antangonist lol.

#41 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

Others may have said this but there is no "winning" in an RPG.Dracula68
??

What I mean is a rpg where you are the bad guy and kill the good guys in the final battle and win. Bad guys always lose in the end.

#42 Posted by lazyathew (3748 posts) -

[QUOTE="lazyathew"]

The best example I can come up with is Tales of Vesperia. You are not evil exactly, but the main character, Yuri, is a criminal who doesn't mind breaking the law and commiting murder to acompish his goal. One of the big antagonsts is a knight, who is after him because of breaking the law.

thom_maytees

This would make Yuri an anti-hero, not an antagonist.

Yeah, I know. I was just suggesting the closest thing I could think of. Not exactly what he was asking for, but I figured it was worth mentioning and may pique his interest.

#43 Posted by ristactionjakso (5713 posts) -

[QUOTE="thom_maytees"]

[QUOTE="lazyathew"]

The best example I can come up with is Tales of Vesperia. You are not evil exactly, but the main character, Yuri, is a criminal who doesn't mind breaking the law and commiting murder to acompish his goal. One of the big antagonsts is a knight, who is after him because of breaking the law.

lazyathew

This would make Yuri an anti-hero, not an antagonist.

Yeah, I know. I was just suggesting the closest thing I could think of. Not exactly what he was asking for, but I figured it was worth mentioning and may pique his interest.

It's cool dude. I like like hero's like that. Hero's that are whiney mr. goody pants are annoying. Playing Lords of Shadow right now and really liking it. Belmont isn't exactly a anti hero or a d!ckhead, but he is still a good character.

#44 Posted by Reptylus (1875 posts) -
Soul Nomad & The World Eaters on PS2. The title sounds like a bad speedmetal band but it's actually a strategy RPG by the makers of Disgaea. Close to the beginning you get to decide either to resist that demon which posseses you or to accept his offer. On first playthrough you basically have to take the hero route because the evil route has high level opponents that can't be beaten without using the New Game + option. But on that second playthrough feel free to follow the path of the demon. It's supposed to be a completly different campaign. That's what the game description says anyway. I haven't played the evil route myself yet, so I can't elaborate on how much it really differs from the hero route. But at least I can tell you that the first thing you do on the evil route is killing the people in you home village.
#45 Posted by tjricardo089 (7429 posts) -

Warcraft I and II, if I remember correctly, allowed you control of the Orcs. You could play their campaign and still win. Not sure about WC III though.

Metamania

Orcs aren't the 'bad guy'.

#46 Posted by CRS98 (9036 posts) -
From my experience, and to be a more specific modern example, I could say New Vegas, but trying to be evil in that game isn't very rewarding. Still, you could go with the blatantly evil faction or just get your karma really low and go the independent route.
#47 Posted by Justforvisit (5047 posts) -

Not really an RPG and I have only played the beginning of the first, but in Overlord I you play a bad guy. Overlord II features the same evil guy I guess. But if he wins in the end, no idea, and it also has a comical humor to it.

#48 Posted by Sagacious_Tien (12562 posts) -
Overlord is a fun game, and there is a sequel as well. And well, you play the lord of darkness. There is no morality or choice to be a good overlord. There is just bad, and really bad play mechanics. Well worth giving it a try.
#49 Posted by Ilovegames1992 (14221 posts) -

KOTOR?

#50 Posted by Venom_Raptor (6958 posts) -

I don't think there are any games where you actually have to play a bad guy and prevail in the end. In Fallout 3 you can choose to be a truly evil person and succeed in some ways in the end depending on your decisions, but otherwise I couldn't think of any others.