Are games too easy these days ?

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#1 Posted by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

...medipacks in every corner...a shitload of devastating weapons...more freedom to the player than the already smart enemy-ai can handle.....and youre through with the game in less than 6 hours with dying about 6 times total, spending more time running through the levels than actually fighting, dodging and using your brains to overcome certain obstacles/enemies.

dont you hate that ? wheres the fun with running and gunning through the levels without even worrying about ammo or death ? ok...there probably is a harder difficulty level.....AFTER you played it through the first time...so i am forced to play through the game only to finally have more fun with the harder difficulty level....well...thanks there are save-game-sites where i can get the 100% save-game-stat so i can enjoy the hardest difficulty from the beginning on.

i cant even count the games i found myself way too easy, some of them are just ok on harder settings but still not really that hard, CRYSIS 3 for example...a great game....but the pc exclusive post-human difficulty level isnt really that hard....thanks to certain weapons and all the gadgets of my nanosuit..of cours only if you really know how to use it all.

what i really hate are games with an unballanced difficulty, like LOST PLANET (the first one, havent played the others yet), i remember it being way too easy on normal, on hard it was just right..but then the endbosses were almost unbeatable on that difficulty, so i switched back to normal only to beat the endbosses while i bored my ass off through the rest of the levels.

max payne 3....great game, an ok harder difficulty level...with one flaw....the level in the hangar with that friggin shield-wielding cop....i almost spent more time beating that area than i needed through the whole game.

but after all i have to say...i prefer rather more difficult games than being too easy and getting through it too fast or being bored while running through the levels, and i have the feeling more and more games these days are getting way too easy

except for strategy games i start all games on the hardest difficulty and mostly those are ok then, while the normal setting is just plain boring mostly.

whats your opininion ?

#2 Edited by bowchicka07 (1073 posts) -

I think they should just make most games' hardest difficulty playable from the beginning. I have too many games to play and I don't have the time to beat them all 2 or more times. Even though some games it isn't doable such as Diablo. I hate to be cliche but back in the day beating a game was more of an accomplishment whereas today it's all about taking the time to do it.

#3 Edited by marcheegsr (2522 posts) -

Growing up I use to always play games on Normal and would still find it challenging. But these days I always play on hard. Maybe its because im older and better at gaming or that gaming is getting easier in general. Not sure.

#4 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10301 posts) -

I wonder how long its gona take for someone to bring up Dark Souls........ Oops ! ;)

#5 Edited by bowchicka07 (1073 posts) -

I wonder how long its gona take for someone to bring up Dark Souls........ Oops ! ;)

I can't bring it up without raging inside.

#6 Edited by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

I think they should just make most games' hardest difficulty playable from the beginning. I have too many games to play and I don't have the time to beat them all 2 or more times. Even though some games it isn't doable suck as Diablo. I hate to be cliche but back in the day beating a game was more of an accomplishment whereas today it's all about taking the time to do it.

as i mentioned, there are happily those save-game sites where you can download the save-game stat with the hardest difficulty setting available, i currently play X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE, which i also found way too easy, on the hard mode with using a downloaded save-game, now the game is more fun than on the extremely easy normal mode which you probably could finish with eyes closed, hell even on the harder setting its not really hard, but its better and more fun than that lousy normal difficulty level.

#7 Posted by The_Last_Ride (70753 posts) -

I don't really mind making games easier, having games easy on harder difficulty is kinda stupid though

#8 Posted by bowchicka07 (1073 posts) -

@bowchicka07 said:

I think they should just make most games' hardest difficulty playable from the beginning. I have too many games to play and I don't have the time to beat them all 2 or more times. Even though some games it isn't doable suck as Diablo. I hate to be cliche but back in the day beating a game was more of an accomplishment whereas today it's all about taking the time to do it.

as i mentioned, there are happily those save-game sites where you can download the save-game stat with the hardest difficulty setting available, i currently play X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE, which i also found way too easy, on the hard mode with using a downloaded save-game, now the game is more fun than on the extremely easy normal mode which you probably could finish with eyes closed, hell even on the harder setting its not really hard, but its better and more fun than that lousy normal difficulty level.

good point but bad example

#9 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10301 posts) -

Truth be told you need to consider what difficulty really is. whats difficult to you ? Damage Sponges and scarce resource and hard hitters ? Thats all that does is unbalance the game and drag things out.

#10 Edited by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

@Lulu_Lulu said:

I wonder how long its gona take for someone to bring up Dark Souls........ Oops ! ;)

ok...i just whine and rant about games being too easy....

...nice try man...i will not start to whine and rant about games being way too hard now because of that friggin damned shi%&& fu$$% dark souls.

but its ok when a game is too hard...as long if there is a strategy or routine which once found out making it easier to finally master it, a bigger problems ar those games where certain levels, obstacles, bosses etc, are only so goddamn hard because there is no other strategy than being lucky on beating it, like those goddarn endbosses in LOST PLANET where i remember reading walkthrough where they told "there is no strategy! just jump around like an idiot and constantly bash the fire button til you hopefully get the fucker down!"

#11 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10301 posts) -

@ sabretooth2066

Dark Souls isn't hard, its in RPG, there for its a character oriented game, it challanges the character not the player, therefore to lower the Difficulty simply grind and level up and memorise all the trial and error crap and the game will be easy in no time. ;) it applies to just about every RPG.

As for lost planet, I only played the sequel. Theres some minor strategies there i suppose.

#12 Posted by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

Truth be told you need to consider what difficulty really is. whats difficult to you ?

i consider a good difficulty is being unable to manually save every goddamn second, not having all the great gadgets available from the beginning on, not having ammo-crates in every corner, not getting an overload of medi-packs and of course the enemy AI which should be clever enough to force you to overthink your approach to the level....but well...if you can cloak yourself for enough time to reach the next hiding spot....in a level full of hiding spots after every meter....you dont even need any weapons then

#13 Posted by RimacBugatti (1192 posts) -

Well if your referring to 2D games where movement was limited to up down and forward. Back in the day the level on screen was much smaller and the levels were so small that there was really nowhere to hide. Not to mention the controls didn't control much. The games now are more realistic I think. The games are made to be enjoyable and not so frustrating. The reason the old school games were so difficult is so it would take longer being that the games were shorter than they are now.

#14 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (5800 posts) -

Overall, no, I don't think games are too easy nowadays. The last thing I want to feel, when playing, is frustrated from the difficulty.

#15 Posted by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

@ sabretooth2066

Dark Souls isn't hard, its in RPG, there for its a character oriented game, it challanges the character not the player, therefore to lower the Difficulty simply grind and level up and memorise all the trial and error crap and the game will be easy in no time. ;) it applies to just about every RPG.

...yes yes of course...if you grind for hours....in case you always went back to collect the lost souls with every death........and if you play the same level 100000000000 times so you finally know every enemy position and strategy....yes then DARK SOULS is easy!

.....so DARK SOULS is just like any other RPG ???, sorry but that is total bullshit, an RPG does not force you to play the same exact shitty patterns millions of times in order to know enemy behavior and level-design until you encounter the next unknown enemies, patterns and level-designs you must fight through 10000000000s of times again so you finally learned it all and get to the endboss where you just have to learn the next lessons.

in a regularl RPG you gain expierience so that enemies get easier while harder enemies follow..which also become easier the more expierience you gain, WITHOUT FORCING YOU TO REPEAT ONE AREA OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.......so you really cant compare dark souls to regular RPGs

#16 Posted by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

To be honest, I would prefer a game made boring from being too easy than a game that makes me wanna me rip my hair out from being stupidly difficult.

Also, TC, I would recommend looking to more niche games if challenge is what you want. Sin and Punishment 2, FTL, Spelunky, etc.

#17 Edited by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

@hrt_rulz01 said:

Overall, no, I don't think games are too easy nowadays. The last thing I want to feel, when playing, is frustrated from the difficulty.

if i run through the levels of a game without the fear of dying too often, without the need to take cover and not paying attention to any medipacks coz i anyway have a regenerating healthbar which i can regenerate behind one of the shitload of covers in a level....why do i play that game in the first place ? to see the end ? to see the action ? to see the story ?

...if id throw a schwarzenegger movie in and grab me a joypad, moving sticks and pressing buttons while arnie´s actions...it would be a similiar "gaming" expierience.

and as much i am interested in a game like 'BEYOND TWO SOULS" i still ask myself....should i really bother "playing" it or should i just watch the walkthrough video on youtube right away coz that would probably be the same expierience except i am not forced to hold a joypad in my hands the whole time.

#18 Posted by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

To be honest, I would prefer a game made boring from being too easy than a game that makes me wanna me rip my hair out from being stupidly difficult.

the problem could be solved with making enough difficulty grades...and for gods sake please not a harder difficulty you have to unlock first with playing through the whole game on normal setting.

DEAD SPACE 3 for example has superb difficulty grades for all kind of gamers, in this case it has 4, where the last one is really ass hard.

i must also say that those games offering two difficulty levels of "normal"..already being hard and "hard" being so extremely hard to the point of being ludicrous, are also not really the best idea when it comes to difficulty levels....at least not for gamers who prefer having an easy way with the games, a game should offer difficulty levels for all kind of gamers...in the case of DARK SOULS it wouldnt have been a bad idea to give an optional feature of a regular save-point system...at least before every bossfight or at the middle of a level.

#19 Edited by Namgis (3572 posts) -

Just because the gear is there for one to use does not mean they are required to do so. I am replaying Bioshock at the moment, the first time I played through it, I remember needing every one of those ammo drops. Last night, I touched less than half of them. The difficulty is the same, I play on normal. It's easier today because I have played many more shooters since then. Sure I can save at any moment, but do I? No. I don't mind if a game kicks my ass to the point I have to replay the level. If I could turn off autosave, I would. Would that make the game harder? Death being final, restart back to 0? Or would it force you to change your play style? You would eventually become desensitized to that style, and be back to the point you are now.

It's only natural that we evolve into better players with enough practice.

#20 Edited by Some-Mist (5630 posts) -

maybe..
gaming became "mainstream" therefore the difficulty was adjusted to cater to the consumer base... but difficult games are still readily available.

big budget (AAA) titles are trying to make their money back, and alienating a large group of mainstream gamers by creating a barrier of entry (steep learning curve) won't help make the money back. The overall average difficulty per game may have decreased, but there are new games being released that could be considered "hardest of all time" (i.e. Pink Sweets (360), Dodonpachi Saidaioujou (360))

for standard "difficult" games... try ketsui (360/PS3), baroque (SS/PS2/Wii), espgaluda II (360), etc...

#21 Edited by LegendaryxRush (7 posts) -

I agree with you.. Game companies should adjust the game difficulty to the hardest as the easiest difficulty of the game so it would be a more challenging game and not too easy to play...

#22 Posted by platinumking320 (666 posts) -

@Some-Mist: I think somewhere up in the corporate offices of big publishers these pubs are exercising too much creative control over the functions of gameplay. like " Just QTE this part ". or " the kids want more guns. why don't you just give it all to them" or force timelines that end up making difficulty cheap, because getting a balance just right is a harder exercise for developers and a creative fix.

Its indifference between the folks with cash waiting to rake in release day revenue, vs the actual makers who have some idea of what it takes to make a good solid experience over time.

#23 Edited by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

the harder certain games are, the more it forces you to actually THINK on how to solve certain problems, and that again is much more fun, that can go until the point where a "dumb and mindless" shooter like "PAINKILLER" for example, where you in fact do nothing else but killing enemy wave after enemy wave in smaller or bigger levels, suddenly forces you on the hardest setting to think and use your brains on how to master the enemy-waves....that ranges from how and where you place yourself in the level, which weapons you use for which enemies and how you save your bullets...coz all of the sudden youre empty on ammo for the bolt-gun which you need to nail a certain kind of enemy at the last wave with a better chance of success, giving the game an almost tactical and strategic note.......or places in the level being death traps you have to avoid because of the huge ammount of enemies storming the level........things you dont have to worry and think much on the easy settings coz you mostly run and gun through the levels without any bigger problem.

#24 Edited by ConorHat (138 posts) -

If you want challenging games, you need to get StarCraft II, Dota 2, Counter-Strike GO, etc. PC games mostly.

#25 Edited by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

@conorhat said:

If you want challenging games, you need to get StarCraft II, Dota 2, Counter-Strike GO, etc. PC games mostly.

the question here is if games these days are getting too easy.....considering the fact that the games you just named are pretty old.....probably also answers the given question here with a clear YES!

i also wouldnt say that just pc games are mostly harder...that only counts for strategy games, being rare on consoles,

actually ego-shooters are easier on pc because of the mouse controlling, an ass hard ego-shooter on the last difficulty level.....play it with a controller and you wont give headshoots every second anymore unless youre used to play with a controller to the point where youre as good as someone playing it with a mouse....and even then you cant move as fast as someone playing with a mouse.

for my part i often play certain ego shooters even on pc with an xbox 360 controller coz the aiming and movement gets a little harder then and so the whole game

#26 Edited by Lulu_Lulu (10301 posts) -

@ sabretooth2066

Well to be fair in the Arkham Games not having every gadget from the beginning makes the game pretty easy. The challenge in Batman comes from juggling multiple attacks in single encounter, having more gadgets increases the number of attack variations the player can use wich in turn creates a bigger challenge. The problem with Upgrades from what Ive seen in other games is the new stuff you unlock is so objectively better that it renders your previous equipment/skills pretty useless. Just alil something I noticed in Bioshock Infinte.

Anyway Dark Souls is pretty much like other RPGs execpt it was designed by sadists for masochists. Other than that, yep, just like every other RPG.

#27 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10301 posts) -

@ sabretooth2066

Also I wana defend Beyond Two Souls, waching it on youtube is not the samething as playing it. Its an interactive story, making it challenging is kind of like watching movies on a rollercoaster, the challenge will intefere with the narrative. Hence why its literally impossible to die throughout the entire game.

#28 Posted by platinumking320 (666 posts) -

@sabretooth2066: I think the word we're looking for here is "stripped'. Too easy games may seem 'stripped' of what they really wanted to be. Cliif Blezinksi of Gears summed it as the 'casual market chase' amplified and affected by the release of the Wii and online small social games.

Balanced encouraging difficulty and a good experience is no simple feat. We know what we've played and why it was good. in smart level design, powerups are cleverly placed. And devs loved to place traps and setups in labyrinths to scare the pants off of us in old FPS, and force us to make critical decisions about resources, what to get, what to leave, and how to approach danger.

I wonder how much publisher creative control and anxious release times is getting in the way of allowing good talent to create unique games. Especially in genres that folks feel are overdone.

Difficulty is part of the game's artistic statement. If they don't get to do that, they're left with trying to shake us up through the plot, with twists and endings, and not really employing those things well

#29 Posted by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

i remember an experiment in a german gaming magazine, testing out GEARS OF WAR (dont remember which part, but i think it was the 2nd) on the subject of games making it too easy for the gamer, in this experiment they tested out how far they could go if they let the AI-squadmates do all the work....with the amazing conclusoin that, expect for a few areas....they finished the game with mostly doing nothing but letting the squad-mates do the work.

...i am not sure if the developers were aware of it but i think it sucks if they worry so much about unexperienced players to make it so goddamn easy that all you have to do is fire a few shots once a while and let the squad AI finish the job for you

..squad-AI....i hate it when they do far more than i want them to do...like clearing whole rooms while i just run after them like a lost dog, and i am not talkin about the scripted sequences in call of duty and all of its clones

#30 Posted by hrt_rulz01 (5800 posts) -

To be honest, I would prefer a game made boring from being too easy than a game that makes me wanna me rip my hair out from being stupidly difficult.

Also, TC, I would recommend looking to more niche games if challenge is what you want. Sin and Punishment 2, FTL, Spelunky, etc.

Yeah 100% agree.

#31 Edited by PyreofKoL (5826 posts) -

Since most games include an automated checkpoint system and regenerating health I think it's safe to say that the basic modes in most games are a bit too easy. That's why most games come with extremely challenging modes and side content to satisfy the punishment hounds (such as myself). One of the best examples is Gears of War. When you bump the difficulty to insane you very quickly realize how invaluable cover is due to the fact that, when you go down, you don't go into a last stand mode but instead are treated to instadeath. Some games messed this concept up, though. Fallout: New Vegas is one of the worst offenders. Hardcore mode is just needlessly obnoxious.

#32 Posted by Gargus (2147 posts) -

No. Most games have a difficulty setting.

I always laugh my ass off at people who say "Oh games are too easy....back in my day..... blah blah blah" but they never seem to notice that most games have difficulty options in them. But then the people who mention those difficulties usually follow it up with "Oh its so cheap because you die so easy and instant death all the time that's not hard its unfair" hate it to break it to you but that's the way hard games have been since the NES. People who complain about difficulty will never be satisfied because they always find some inane loophole to continue their argument and will nit pick anything to do to support it.

The games that are easy are casual games aimed at kids and non core gamers as well. But those kinds of games have been around forever.

#33 Posted by Kid_Black_Star (485 posts) -

I like my Video Games just as much as I love women. Hard to get, mission accomplished when you win her heart over with your hard work.

#34 Posted by Ctls_Rajesh (13 posts) -

Games are not easy these day.

#35 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16678 posts) -

You need to keep in mind that many games also do away with dated gameplay mechanics, for better or worse.

Although I'd say there's still a healthy amount of challenging games, plus difficulty settings. In most games, should you turn up the difficulty, what a surprise, you'll find yourself dying often. I think Gargus perfectly summed it up. The difficulty options are there, and people who bitch about dying all the time clearly have nostalgia goggles for old games, because, if anything, older games were cheaper than many of today's hard games. I've found that few old games that are considered "challenging" are actually just pretty cheap.

#36 Posted by Shmiity (5042 posts) -

Yes. Absolutely. I want every game to be Dark Souls. I wish I was joking... but I feel like I am consistently under-challenged.

#37 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10301 posts) -

@ Shmiity

Dark Soul's challenge is divided, the action challenges the player and the Role Playing challenges the character you build. one is genuine and the other is Artificial.

#38 Posted by Shmiity (5042 posts) -

@ Shmiity

Dark Soul's challenge is divided, the action challenges the player and the Role Playing challenges the character you build. one is genuine and the other is Artificial.

It's a video game, dog. It's all artificial.

#39 Posted by LeftClick007 (76 posts) -

I think less people would play games if they were all really difficult :/. What I hate though is when the difficulty comes from crappy controls or a really terrible camera system. The last game to really give me a challenge without cheap tricks was Dragon Age Origins on Nightmare. Now that was fun. I don't always play a game for the challenge of it though, sometimes its just cool to see the world that the artists create and the presentation of that world.

#40 Edited by DigiTM64 (110 posts) -

I'm okay with easier, getting older, not having as much time to play them, but still want to play as many as I can. I don't have the time anymore to sit at one level for days trying to get through it.

I now play games totally for entertainment value, preferring to come home from a hard day at the office and relax with my favorite game at the time.

#41 Posted by Lulu_Lulu (10301 posts) -

@ Shmiity

Nope. There are genuine challenges inside a video game, or do you not no the difference between real difficulty and artificial difficulty.

#42 Posted by WR_Platinum (4666 posts) -

Compared to the 8 bit and 16 bit generation. Games have been easier. The youngins don't know what difficulty is unless they experienced the older games.

#43 Posted by DigiTM64 (110 posts) -

All I remember here is the dreaded Death Star levels in X-Wing. No such thing as death and just respawn where you were, it's start the entire mission from scratch, and it was hard. Such an awesome game though, wish they would remake it.

#44 Posted by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

i read some guys claiming "yadda yadda the games have difficulty options!!"

people...i dont know how many games you play per year, but surely not all games got difficulty options and not all game with difficulty options really mean that the hardest difficulty is also satisfying for people like me, like i said there are games where the hardest difficulty ist still easy or just extremely unballanced.

there are also some major AAA titles missing a difficulty setting.....but...like ASSASSINS CREED...giving optional tasks and/or the option to get that 100% rating is a good thing again, which actually makes the game a little harder then and therefor no difficulty setting is needed.

or GTA V for example, having no difficulty options but the option to get gold medals which are sometimes really ass hard, thats also a good way of raising the difficulty level but not forcing anyone to play it that way..and just in the middle of the game you can decide if you go for the gold medals or not...you dont have to restart to start off with another difficulty level, which brings me to the next problem in certain games:

the option to change the difficulty during the game, do you think thats a good idea ? i dont think so coz people often end up switching to an easier setting as soon they got into trouble and raising it again when they think its too easy...at the end they end up with constantly switching from one difficulty level to another during the whole game...just my opinion but i feel better when i know i am stuck on a certain difficulty level than constantly fighting myself not to switch to an easier level as soon i got stuck for a little longer than usual.

#45 Posted by Kenocratic (92 posts) -

As the games got better looking they got easier to play it appears? Maybe that was brought up already, didn't read every part of the posts.

#46 Posted by Some-Mist (5630 posts) -

@Shmiity said:

Yes. Absolutely. I want every game to be Dark Souls. I wish I was joking... but I feel like I am consistently under-challenged.

you should choose a genre that caters to your "needs" then. you want a difficult RPG? play baroque (wii) or resonance of fate (360/ps3).

I can recommend you about 20 shoot-em-ups released this gen that you will not be able to clear on one credit without month(s) and sometimes year(s) of practice.

if you feel consistently underchallenged, it's probably because your sticking to games aimed at inexperienced gamers (most mainstream titles).

#47 Posted by The_Last_Ride (70753 posts) -

i think Forza is the best example of difficulty. You can let the car almost drive itself and make it hard with all assists off and with greater challenge

#48 Posted by sabretooth2066 (61 posts) -

@Shmiity said:

Yes. Absolutely. I want every game to be Dark Souls. I wish I was joking... but I feel like I am consistently under-challenged.

you should choose a genre that caters to your "needs" then. you want a difficult RPG? play baroque (wii) or resonance of fate (360/ps3).

I can recommend you about 20 shoot-em-ups released this gen that you will not be able to clear on one credit without month(s) and sometimes year(s) of practice.

if you feel consistently underchallenged, it's probably because your sticking to games aimed at inexperienced gamers (most mainstream titles).

its great that you can recommend 20 shoot em ups with harder difficulty or some certain harder RPGs, but are you aware that some people will not switch to another genre only because of the difficulty offered there ?

but on the other side...in some way...i have to agree that some certain other genres offer far harder gaming expierience than AAA titles and especially harder than first person shooters, there are a shitload of indie 2d sidescroller platforming games with pretty darn hard difficulty. as example i currently play THE ANGRY VIDEO GAME NERD ADVENTURES offering perfect difficulty levels and never being unfair to the player, once you get to know the level and enemy patterns its a walk in the park.

#49 Posted by tompkins5 (13 posts) -

Games are FAR too easy now-a-days! Many games just raise health and damage output with opponents when you change difficulty... Like TES: Skyrim for example, that game on legendary wasn't much harder, just more time consuming with the higher health of enemies. I'd like to see more games like Dark souls where the player had to just learn as he went on. Other than telling the player over about 4 small messages he/she had the option of reading on the ground about which buttons did what at the beginning (which was on a sign that the player had to choose to read), there wasn't any kind of tutorial... Unless you want to call the asylum a tutorial. Most games force the player into a 10 minute session of just spamming the A button (or X for PS). I know this is probably there to help younger or newer gamers get used to gaming, but in the time we live in, there are so many people accustomed to many different types of games. It'd be nice to see some games being made JUST for veteran players.

#50 Edited by Some-Mist (5630 posts) -

@sabretooth2066 said:

@Some-Mist said:

@Shmiity said:

Yes. Absolutely. I want every game to be Dark Souls. I wish I was joking... but I feel like I am consistently under-challenged.

you should choose a genre that caters to your "needs" then. you want a difficult RPG? play baroque (wii) or resonance of fate (360/ps3).

I can recommend you about 20 shoot-em-ups released this gen that you will not be able to clear on one credit without month(s) and sometimes year(s) of practice.

if you feel consistently underchallenged, it's probably because your sticking to games aimed at inexperienced gamers (most mainstream titles).

its great that you can recommend 20 shoot em ups with harder difficulty or some certain harder RPGs, but are you aware that some people will not switch to another genre only because of the difficulty offered there ?

but on the other side...in some way...i have to agree that some certain other genres offer far harder gaming expierience than AAA titles and especially harder than first person shooters, there are a shitload of indie 2d sidescroller platforming games with pretty darn hard difficulty. as example i currently play THE ANGRY VIDEO GAME NERD ADVENTURES offering perfect difficulty levels and never being unfair to the player, once you get to know the level and enemy patterns its a walk in the park.

the RPGs were listed because of the dark souls reference, and the shmups because of the under-challenged remark. If you (he) want to be challenged, then why not play a genre that offers challenging games? you know... the same genres that established the difficulty standard of prior gens...

anyway... this is usually a recurring unoriginal topic every few months... and this is typically how it goes:

1: "don't you remember how hard those arcade shooters and retro platformers used to be? how come current games don't offer the same challenge?"

2: "there are plenty of arcade shooters and platformers that retain the same old-school difficulty and they're still being released today"

1: "no, I don't play those games any more. I mean the games I play now: first person shooters and action games that weren't highly relevant back when those hard arcade games were around"

2: "well you can blame that on the shift of demographics in the gaming community. gaming has become a popular form of media and developers are now trying to cater to a large consumer base instead of focusing on the very small population of nerdy retro gamers who helped popularize gaming".

Maybe if gaming didn't become as popular as it is today, those new first person shooters would retain the same difficulty of games that you used to play... but that's just a hypothetical. Even if you complain to developers/publishers, it's not going to change the fact that your opinion is about 750,000 to 1.

Challenge is something you give up if you're looking for other refined aspects of gaming. Whether it's high quality graphics, cinematics/story-telling, a large community, etc.. If you're looking for a challenge from games, you're either gonna have to unlock harder difficulties in these popular games you're choosing to play or choose something that isn't popular among the "casual"/mainstream userbase. You can't have it all.