Are games being dumbed down too much? The Last of Us has Xray vision?

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#1 Posted by robotapple (663 posts) -

I was watching some gameplay for TLOU and I noticed a bigger issue here

 

I mean why does a Zombi game have melee combat and Xray vision like Sam Fisher in 2013,

 

Are games being dumbed down too much with unnecessary handholding, it completely kills the atmosphere?

 

 

 

#2 Posted by wiouds (5020 posts) -

What being dumbed down is different for each person. It can be as much on the person taste. than anything real.

There is nothing wrong with make it so more people cna enjoy you game.

#3 Posted by sapphire54 (152 posts) -

I don't think it dumbing down. Matter of preference.

 

I'm sure the guys who spend all thier time on puzzle games think us shooers are dumbing ourselves.

#4 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

The X-Ray vision is really stupid and kills the atmosphere.

#5 Posted by sukraj (21902 posts) -

I agree the x ray vision is a silly idea.

#6 Posted by bezza2011 (2321 posts) -

I agree the x vision spoils the game for me and i hope it can be turned off, i mean if the characters in the game are normal and have no tech to show x ray it shouldn't be there, i believe it does spoil the suspense and horror of the game. but i guess some will like it to make it easier for them. 

#7 Posted by Lulekani (2216 posts) -

I agree the x vision spoils the game for me and i hope it can be turned off, i mean if the characters in the game are normal and have no tech to show x ray it shouldn't be there, i believe it does spoil the suspense and horror of the game. but i guess some will like it to make it easier for them. 

bezza2011
They're trying to target a broader audience, my sister would appreciate that. Don't you want my sister to be happy ? :'(
#8 Posted by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

I was watching some gameplay for TLOU and I noticed a bigger issue here

I mean why does a Zombi game have melee combat and Xray vision like Sam Fisher in 2013,

Are games being dumbed down too much with unnecessary handholding, it completely kills the atmosphere?

robotapple

As a guy who started playing horror games with the original Alone in the Dark and is a big fan of Silent Hill, I think the fact that bullets are in short supply and one is often forced to melee with the undead is a good thing. I love RE4, but I don't think every horror game should involve firing thousands of bullets into hundreds of enemies.

I think the idea of the listening mode is cool, but it conveys too much info (you should just hear the positions of enemies, not see outlines). Since its a mode one can activate (going into it apparently makes Joel slower and more vulnerable) or not, it sounds like it can be skipped entirely. I'd like to see it tweaked on harder difficulties though (so you just 'see' footsteps rather than see an exactly outline of an enemy).

#9 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

[QUOTE="robotapple"]

I was watching some gameplay for TLOU and I noticed a bigger issue here

 

I mean why does a Zombi game have melee combat and Xray vision like Sam Fisher in 2013,

 

Are games being dumbed down too much with unnecessary handholding, it completely kills the atmosphere?

CarnageHeart

As a guy who started playing horror games with the original Alone in the Dark and is a big fan of Silent Hill, I think the fact that bullets are in short supply and one is often forced to melee with the undead is a good thing. I love RE4, but I don't think every horror game should involve firing thousands of bullets into hundreds of enemies.

I think the idea of the listening mode is cool, but it conveys too much info (you should just hear the positions of enemies, not see outlines). Since its a mode one can activate (going into it apparently makes Joel slower and more vulnerable) or not, it sounds like it can be skipped entirely. I'd like to see it tweaked on harder difficulties though (so you just 'see' footsteps rather than see an exactly outline of an enemy).

Yeah I think the idea of it is fine. I mean, you can listen in real life and pick up on positioning just fine. Implenting that idea is tough, but I'll just have to wait until the game is out to see how it feels in the game. 

Tomb Raider and Hitman had the Instinct feature that just felt silly in each situation. I understand it was supposed to showcase how in tune Lara/47 are, but when it just highlights everything it kills the immersion otherwise. Luckily, neither of these were necessary to use (you had to use Instinct in Hitman to sneak by certain enemies but you didn't have to use it to see through walls and stuff if you didn't want) so I'm sure TLOU will be similar.

#10 Posted by Tazzman1000 (1108 posts) -

I was watching some gameplay for TLOU and I noticed a bigger issue here

 

I mean why does a Zombi game have melee combat and Xray vision like Sam Fisher in 2013,

 

Are games being dumbed down too much with unnecessary handholding, it completely kills the atmosphere?

 

 

 

robotapple
X ray vision for a slower moving and more vulnrable character seems like a fair trade. Also I have no problem with the melee as it seems if you use it excessively you'll get jumped from behind. Besides I find that having a shed load of ammo in a post apocalytic world is worse, it makes it seem that ammo production factories are apocalypse proof and the people working there are willing to churn out ammo even though they're not getting paid.
#11 Posted by MirkoS77 (7018 posts) -
I can deal with these features because I can simply refuse to use them. Zelda is a prime example when dumbing down and handholding are taken to the extreme, and it's in cases like that that I cannot stand as I find it's far too intrusive and past the point of insulting.
#12 Posted by MonsieurX (29241 posts) -
Oh look,robotapple's thread against the PS3
#13 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

you can turn it off.

#14 Posted by yellosnolvr (19302 posts) -
relativity and preference.
#15 Posted by 23Jarek23 (2617 posts) -

The X-Ray vision is really stupid and kills the atmosphere.

Pffrbt

What's even worse is that ND is going on about how difficult this game will be and that you'll die a lot and that they don't believe in holding the players hand blah blah...meanwhile, x-ray vision. 

#16 Posted by ReddestSkies (4087 posts) -

People in this thread are overreacting. This is something that you need to activate; if you don't like it, don't use it.

#17 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

Firstly, easier and dumber are not necessarily synonymous.

Secondly, I don't fathom how giving the player an extended toolset, much of it optional, qualifies as a simplification of gameplay.

If anything, ND appears to be giving the player a myriad of options and letting them decide just how intelligently (or not) they want to play the game.

If that turns out to be the case, I would posit this game is the antithesis of being a watered down experience.  

#18 Posted by Blueresident87 (5335 posts) -

I don't care that it's there, I'll just choose to not use it.

#19 Posted by Lucky_Krystal (1730 posts) -

you can turn it off.

S0lidSnake

Oh, so its optional?

If that's the case then I don't see the problem with it.

#20 Posted by Cyberdot (3514 posts) -

I'm very disappointed to hear that we can see through walls in The Last of Us. It was almost a deal breaker for me, but I'm not sure as of yet.

It's a console game. You know their audience...

#21 Posted by Ish_basic (3978 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

The X-Ray vision is really stupid and kills the atmosphere.

23Jarek23

What's even worse is that ND is going on about how difficult this game will be and that you'll die a lot and that they don't believe in holding the players hand blah blah...meanwhile, x-ray vision.

The concept of a listen mode without any kind of visual interface poses problems for hearing impaired players and those with lesser sound systems. It only makes sense for ND to include this kind of set-up so as to not deny this particular tool to certain players. You can turn it off or not use it. Seriously, why don't you guys bitch about subtitles while you're at it.

No real need to put too much thought into what the TC is saying. This thread was conceived as thinly veiled jab at what is shaping up to be an amazing title by someone who either can't or won't be playing and is trying to convince themselves and others like them that they won't be missing anything. Mm-hmm. Keep telling yourself that.

#22 Posted by Kevlar101 (6008 posts) -

[QUOTE="23Jarek23"]

[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

The X-Ray vision is really stupid and kills the atmosphere.

Ish_basic

What's even worse is that ND is going on about how difficult this game will be and that you'll die a lot and that they don't believe in holding the players hand blah blah...meanwhile, x-ray vision.

The concept of a listen mode without any kind of visual interface poses problems for hearing impaired players and those with lesser sound systems. It only makes sense for ND to include this kind of set-up so as to not deny this particular tool to certain players. You can turn it off or not use it. Seriously, why don't you guys bitch about subtitles while you're at it.

No real need to put too much thought into what the TC is saying. This thread was conceived as thinly veiled jab at what is shaping up to be an amazing title by someone who either can't or won't be playing and is trying to convince themselves and others like them that they won't be missing anything. Mm-hmm. Keep telling yourself that.

#23 Posted by keech (1326 posts) -

I don't see any issue with melee combat.  It would seem rather odd if I were forced to shoot an enemy that's right in front of me when it would be easier to knife them.  ND has also said stealth can play an important role in the game, which makes the option to melee even more important.

 

As for the X-Ray thing, It really depends on how well implemented it is.  From the looks of it your movement slows to a crawl and the camera zooms in so tight you can only see what's directly in front of you.  Given the number of times the players got insta-killed from behind in both fairly short videos, I don't see this being a broken mechanic.

 

Though I will admit the detailed character outline seems a bit obtrusive for a game that's so heavily striving for realism and atmosphere.

#24 Posted by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -

You can turn off the x-ray mode. Crisis averted.

8uA3OWY.gif

#25 Posted by Blueresident87 (5335 posts) -

You can turn off the x-ray mode. Crisis averted.

8uA3OWY.gif

CarnageHeart

People will overreact to anything.

#26 Posted by donalbane (16182 posts) -
Maybe the idea is that it simulates the awareness an actual person would have in an actual environment... something that's hard to truly simulate in a game. I don't know, maybe I'm just reaching... it does seem like a curious choice for a game like this one. I really appreciated it in Far Cry 3, though. It made the scanning aspect relavent.
#27 Posted by IndianaPwns39 (5037 posts) -

You can turn off the x-ray mode. Crisis averted.

8uA3OWY.gif

CarnageHeart

I laughed at being able to turn "Violence" off. 

There are a ton of options though. I look forward to having all the hints and prompts turned off.

#28 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

People in this thread are overreacting. This is something that you need to activate; if you don't like it, don't use it.

ReddestSkies

The problem is that the game is being designed with it in mind.

#29 Posted by keech (1326 posts) -

[QUOTE="ReddestSkies"]

People in this thread are overreacting. This is something that you need to activate; if you don't like it, don't use it.

Pffrbt

The problem is that the game is being designed with it in mind.

The fact that you can disable it entirely in the options suggests It's not particularly integral to the gameplay.  I can't speak for anyone else, but after following this game since it was originally announced, this is the first time I've even heard of this feature.  They certainly haven't been presenting it as some major gameplay mechanic by any means.

#30 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

[QUOTE="ReddestSkies"]

People in this thread are overreacting. This is something that you need to activate; if you don't like it, don't use it.

keech

The problem is that the game is being designed with it in mind.

The fact that you can disable it entirely in the options suggests It's not particularly integral to the gameplay.

That's a relief.

#31 Posted by GeoffZak (3715 posts) -

you can turn it off.

S0lidSnake

The issue with that, is that in video games, normally you feel the need to use everything in your power to win.

Jon Tron and Egoraptor talked about this once in an episode of Game Grumps. Referring to it as the "dominant strategy."

Typically in a game, if you have access to something that can help you, you're going to use it. Even if you feel it makes the game too easy. The option to use it will always be there, lingering in your mind. You know you have the ability to make the game easier. Why not use it?

That's why even including the option is bothersome. Being able to have too much power takes away from the atmosphere and immersion.

#32 Posted by Justin_G (198 posts) -

blah blah blah, the industry sucks. go do something about it. Last of Us is set to be a great game.

#33 Posted by Pffrbt (6474 posts) -

The issue with that, is that in video games, normally you feel the need to use everything in your power to win.

Jon Tron and Egoraptor talked about this once in an episode of Game Grumps. Referring to it as the "dominant strategy."

GeoffZak

They were talking about it in reference to the helper shit that shows up in Nintendo games if you suck really bad though. To complain about something that's completely optional because it makes the game easier is idiotic. It's like being outraged at a game featuring an easy mode.

If anything it makes me more determined to not use it.

#34 Posted by Ballroompirate (22281 posts) -

Games have always been "dumbed down", there might be a few in every gen that are actually hard.

#35 Posted by LAN7ERN (373 posts) -
I am not a big fan of the x ray vision in the game.
#36 Posted by GeoffZak (3715 posts) -

It's like being outraged at a game featuring an easy mode.

Pffrbt

I don't mind when a game has an easy mode because you normally can't change the difficulty after you begin playing.

But some games allow you to change the difficulty after you've already started. And that bothers me.

It allows you to cheat. If you get to a really hard boss, you can just turn the difficulty down and then win without even trying.

#37 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

It's like being outraged at a game featuring an easy mode.

GeoffZak

I don't mind when a game has an easy mode because you normally can't change the difficulty after you begin playing.

But some games allow you to change the difficulty after you've already started. And that bothers me.

It allows you to cheat. If you get to a really hard boss, you can just turn the difficulty down and then win without even trying.

But really, who gives a shit?

If somebody wants to "cheat" to get through a game they purchased that is most certainly their prerogative and it most definitely has no bearing on the game as you and I choose to play it.

#38 Posted by Lucky_Krystal (1730 posts) -

But really, who gives a shit?

If somebody wants to "cheat" to get through a game they purchased that is most certainly their prerogative and it most definitely has no bearing on the game as you and I choose to play it.

Grammaton-Cleric

You'd be surprised at how many people actually give a shit.

I've heard some crazy stuff thrown out there in response to the supposed "dumbing down" of games. It mostly people acting like someone across the country, who they've never met and don't care about, playing on super easy mode somehow sours their gaming experience. I think the most ridiculous claims were the ones that make assumptions about people who want an easy mode in a game failing at life, because "There's no easy mode in life! You just want everything handed to you don't ya! Real life ain't like! Kids these days don't wanna work for nothing!" And its like...wait....weren't we talking about video games? ENTERTAINMENT!? Not my college courses, my life, or my job?

I can kind of understand some outrage if a traditionally hard game was made easy with no easy-normal-hard modes that gave you choices. But when you're given a choice, like in this situation in the TLOU, I just don't see the point in complaining either. Let Joe Schmoe play on Super-Easy-Handholding mode if he wants. He paid for the game just as I did. And maybe he's got a wife, kids, a job, and far less time than me. It certainly wouldn't affect my playthrough on Super-Intense-Ultra-Hard mode.

#39 Posted by Blueresident87 (5335 posts) -

[QUOTE="GeoffZak"]

[QUOTE="Pffrbt"]

It's like being outraged at a game featuring an easy mode.

Grammaton-Cleric

I don't mind when a game has an easy mode because you normally can't change the difficulty after you begin playing.

But some games allow you to change the difficulty after you've already started. And that bothers me.

It allows you to cheat. If you get to a really hard boss, you can just turn the difficulty down and then win without even trying.

But really, who gives a shit?

If somebody wants to "cheat" to get through a game they purchased that is most certainly their prerogative and it most definitely has no bearing on the game as you and I choose to play it.

Exactly right. It's impossible to cheat in a single player game/campaign. Whatever the person playing the game enjoys, fine.