Are angry fanboys bad for gaming?

PBS Game/Show made a pretty interesting video on the subject that's worth a watch.

We should support our favorite creators for how they create, not always for what they create. In film, you might be a fan of Kathryn Bigelow or Quentin Tarantino, but that doesn't mean that you expect them to make 10 sequels to Point Break or Pulp Fiction. ... It's important that we give game designers the exact same latitude.

I've never really agreed with this underlying idea that sequels are bad though, to me, execution of the idea is more important than it's originality. Much used themes and ideas can still make great games, games with original and fresh ideas can still be crap. Still, not a bad video, and relevant given the increased bleeding over of System Wars culture into this forum. (something that really is going to have to stop)

Interesting video which doesn't really come with its own opinion but merely states other peoples ideas.

But are Fanboys bad for gaming, of course not. Fanboys are just really invested and as a artist/developer/director/creator they should be valued because those are also the same people who will spend a shit ton of cash on your product.

What however is bad for gaming is developers with soft-skin who doesn't seem to get that their work is their work and they should give a rats behind what some fanboy or girl goes crazy over and just be happy that someone actually takes that time to be a fanboy or girl.

And if anyone thinks that movies, music, books, tv-shows doesnt get the same shit, then they are insane. Only difference is just that seemly those people have a harder skin and do not take what's being said so serious.

Although @Jacanuk makes an important economic point, I'd say that on a more social level angry fanboys are bad. Criticism is fine, but being angry just means you're unreasonable and can only cope with these situations via aggression. It makes video games look bad and it makes people who play games look bad, because these angry people get the most attention. Again, criticism is always justified, but rage serves no purpose at all. But it's not just rage. It's also a lack of respect for other people and a lack of knowledge about how to communicate. I don't understand how people can think they can convince anyone by putting rage or insult in their words. But apparently these angry people influence developers. That's not to say developers shouldn't be able to cope with this rage. Gamers who put any form of rage in their comments should be instantly ignored, even if their arguments are solid. This whole idea about not having to be polite or considerate on the internet is beyond me (although it's very unrealistic of me to desire otherwise).

On a sidenote: why do almost all game videos have this frantic presenting style? The insistent consistency in volume and tempo (not to mention the overenergetic shouting) is tiring and chaotic (in my humble opinion, of course), as is the breakneck cutting speed. I know these people want to say a lot in as little time as possible, but if you make a 10 min. video, you can also make a 15 min. video. People who don't care will have bailed out way before the 10 min. mark anyway and people who are interested don't care about 5 minutes extra. And what's the deal with the annoying coin sound on every single cut? I'm not angry, though. I'm just pointing it out. ;-)

Actually i wasn't making a sole economic point.

I was also at least trying to make that point that if we look at the art world or more comparable movie/music/tv-show/book world we don't hear the same whining, which is interesting because why is that? I think its because there are more pride and also more "hey go eat a donkeys leftovers if you dont like it" attitude. Because imagine a Van Gogh today, would his masterpieces be less criticize ? or Michelangelo? of course not, its in the human and particular kids behaviour to go crazy when they become fans

So the only thing bad is the game developers whining and they should really grow a pair.

Fanboys Encourage Exclusives, Exclusives Limit the number of people who can actually play the game, A Win for the Manufactures and a lose for Developers and Gamers.

Fanboys can burn in hell.

I don't think the guy in the video knows what a "fanboy" means. Angryjoe is someone who paid sixty dollars for a choice game. Granted, in any game with a choice system, you get different scenarios depending on the choices you made. Instead, Angryjoe and any angry person at mass effect's 3 ending got three similar endings instead of three different ones even though it's a "choice" game. There's nothing "fanboying" about this. A fanboy or a fangirl is someone who likes a game and not someone who simply critiques it.

The guy makes it seem as if what's written on message boards or social media ALWAYS influences game makers which is wrong. Many things influence game makers and pushes them to making either right or wrong decisions. The maker of Fez might have cancelled the game after being called an asshole hipster but that doesn't mean the case applies to all game developers. Here's a list of things which influence developers besides "what's written out there": Sales, business offers as a movie adaption/commercial/collaboration, personal circumstances as death, lack of finances, pressure... Anything could influence game developers. It doesn't have to be "angry fanboys" I would say developers rarely listen to "angry fanboys" Fez is a rare case of the subject in hand.

When it comes to business, no. When it comes to discussions and what's good for gamers sometimes it's bad for us. People that are buying bad games or generic games are hurting the business and are bought by fanboys or casuals (mostly). People that pre-ordered X1 between the reveal and the 180 shows you that

Fair enough. And I agree that developers should/could grow a pair. But I also think it's too easy to completely blame the developers for other people's social shortcomings. I can sit here and say these developers simply have to deal with all the hate, but that wouldn't be fair. I simply don't know what it would be like to be in that situation. I can imagine that not every individual can deal with all that aggression, no matter how much you prepare for it or are aware of how the media work. And I can understand that it must be frustrating if pretty much everything you do is constantly hated by a significant amount of people and that every attempt to defend yourself is met with more hate. There's no excuse for being an asshole, no matter how the internet and people work. And the whole Van Gogh example doesn't fully fly, because the massive scale of criticism by (often) ignorant and entitled people really isn't that old yet. And just because a lot of people can't handle the freedom of the internet (and many forms of freedom in general), doesn't mean we should just expect others to simply grow a pair and deal with it.

I also think we don't hear the same whining in film, music, etc. because people there have accepted there are different audiences and genres (and they stay within the context of that audience or genre). When it comes to videogames, there are a lot of people who still think videogames in general belong to a very specific group of people and that when they speak they express the opinion of the majority of gamers out there. They think their anger is the majority's anger. And they get their anger justified by other angry and loud people. That's the problem with the internet: there are always enough people who will support your opinion and keep the illusion alive that your opinion is the majority's opinion.

So, no, angry fanboys shouldn't be valued, because they have lost the ability to think straight. They should be fully ignored, until they can criticise with a bit of composure and respect.

That's what annoyed be about Fez's guy the most. He cancelled something he spent hours making, poured his heart in for a guy who didn't look like he had the skills to review a game. And if he did had the skills, why didn't he use them instead of name calling? I think he felt he was making a game for an unappreciative, unsupportive and uneducated audience who can't even construct an opinion.

@loafofgame: I agree with you, unsociable and hateful fanboys are scaring decent people away from the hobby and holding it down while making the rest of us gamers look bad. Stereo types exist because there's some truth to them despite being portrayed unfairly at times.

Having passion about your hobby and favorite games/company is fine, but when you defend them blindly or get insulted as though you yourself are being attacked personally, well then things have gone way too far and you've developed an unhealthy bonding and relationship with in-animate objects.

I don't think other media personalities face less than game devs, I just think the other media personalities facing this kind of bullshit are rich and so can afford to insulate themselves against it. It's hard to put up with this shit AND work 10+ hour days of hard mental grinding while only making 60-100k.

Loved the comment at 4:00 about how most gamers that play don't know shit about making games. On one hand, the criticisms would be more relevant. When you're experienced with something you know better how to break it down even if you can't do better yourself...but you're also more tolerant because you know what it takes to do what these guys do. People just bitch as if making a better game was as simple as talking about it, no clue what these guys are putting in and no clue of the particular and general limitations they face.

That being said, BioWare, your Mass Effect ending was shitty by any standards. It's not your fault...you don't have enough competition in your genre and game critics have been padding your ass for years, so you didn't see it coming. But maybe you should have.

@Bigboi500: @gamingqueen: It's a difficult situation. It's not that I think there's no value in having (or growing) a little backbone in dealing with angry fanboys. I mean, it's not realistic to expect the angry people to change, so I get why some people say that developers should just (learn how to) deal with it. And maybe the Fez developer (for example) was a bit of a douche. I mean, some of his comments point in that direction (although they're always snippets from a larger personal context we'll never have access to). But well, that doesn't mean the angry fanboys are ever excused. In my opinion, they are a very important problem, but sadly they're also the problem that is most difficult to solve.

I disagree with the guy's premise that angry fans prevent innovation. My belief is that the problem is that many people are fans of franchises and not the game designers behind the franchises.

Generally speaking, people don't write angry letters to Polyphony Digital when they make a non-GT title (nods towards Omega Boost and Tourist Trophy) or Miyamoto when he makes a non-Mario/Zelda game (nods towards Pikmin) or Hideo Kojima when he makes a non-Metal Gear game (nods towards Zone of Enders) they just ignore the game.

People getting pissed off about what they see as crappy design decisions is an entirely different phenomena than people preferring safe sequels to original games.

I agree with the guy that people should follow developers rather than franchises, but most (but by no means all) gamers disagree.

no point in thinking about it.

people have to feel like they are a part of something and be fanboys about it.

it's true with movies, music, comics, political parties, nationalism ect ect ect...

it's just the psychology of human tribal nature.

what i like is best and what you like is stupid.

it's that simple.

Anger and hatred are soul poison and should be expelled at all costs whenever possible.

Bunch of pathetic, whiney ass, kiddie-minded losers. That's my view of them.

Hmm, its a bit easy also to blame fan-dom on social failures, because for some if not a lot its not actually social shortcomings but more passionate people being passionate and with passion comes this kind of tunnelvisioned behaviour.

So developers have to ask themselves why do we create this game? do we do it just to make cash, because then i get that it can be hell having to deal with "fanboys" who invest way to much time. But if its created because they love what they do and want to share their passion with the world, then the only answer is that the developers grow a pair, because they 100% want the passionate people who cosplay, buy deluxe, collectors edition or what extra special they dish out and also create mods, fanficition, rewrites etc. and keep coming back for more and with those also comes the people who get angry and get passionate about this game. Because its the same people who will defend and buy your work to the end, even when the "non-fanboys" run the other way, they are the ones who will stick around.

So sorry i cant agree with you or anyone else who thinks that fanboys are bad , because its not. Also its not like you can ever get rid of them,

Old saying goes like this… "Hate is the most useless emotion their is. Half the people you hate don't know you hate them, and the other half don't care". It's a good saying. Like the drunk I had to walk out of the store that threatened to kill me a little while ago when I went up there to order the truck for tomorrow. :P He hates me, and I just don't care.

Absolutely yes.

Oh brother, I could tell you some stories about escorting shoplifters out of retail locations all over the DFW metroplex.

When I was on the night crew, we had an honest-to-God martial artist who worked with us. He was an immigrant from Thailand and he would take an occasional weekend off to go to competitions, and would place regularly. If the shoplifter code was called, he was always the first out the door even if he started in the back room. If this guy had a rodent fetish and an inherited fortune, you'd think he could be Batman for reals.

I don't like to take any kind of glee from the misfortune of others, truly I don't. But I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a little bit of schadenfreude when some of these fellows would take a swing at this guy. The look on their face was always priceless. Big lumbering drunken swing followed by 3 or 4 quick strikes to the solar plexus, immediately robbing them of breath for a few seconds. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't satisfying to watch.

Sorry, not trying to derail the thread or anything. :)

while he passingly mentioned the complaining about the ME3 ending and rude behavior, he seemed more focused on the issue of outcry for more sequels than actually defining the term "fanboy." if you use the word to describe every bad behavior in the video game audience, then i guess fanboys are bad for gaming.

about the point that it's the complaining that leads to more sequels, i disagree. the vast majority of sequels don't get made because people go on forums and say "i want a sequel!" they get made because people went to (or clicked to) stores and bought the previous games in the series (rational businesspeople don't favor a few forum posts or convention goers when they have hard sales data). the decision to make the game is often motivated by maximizing profits. this decision puts at least as much responsibility on publishers/backers as on consumer tastes.

if publishers/backers wanted to finance a game for the developer(s)' tastes then they could, because some games do get made that way. they are pretty much never the most profitable games, but that goal is chosen by the people giving the developers the money. they aren't forced to make that decision based entirely on who gives them money.

Anytime more than 3 people enjoy a product or an activity you will find people who are angry about said product or activity. They are everywhere, they are involved in everything, they always have been, they always will be, and you can not nor will you ever get rid of them.

Just ignore them, you give them their power when you let it effect you. Besides, why do you give a shit? How exactly do they impact your personal life or make a difference to you?

I could use a guy like that at the store, would just have to make sure anytime he did his thing it was in self defense. Even if we catch someone red handed all we can do is ask them to leave the building. A few of the more hot headed managers will find a way to provoke them into taking a swing so they can claim self defense, but I don't get paid anywhere near enough to do that. I only get physical when I have absolutely no choice, and to date in my life, I've never been put in that situation.

I'm honestly scared I'll overreact and end up being the one who goes to jail, so I actively avoid it as best I can.

There can be some times that some fan get over the top of something.

The other side can be just as bad. Those the just brush off fans when the fan's emotionally investments is not inline with what they did. Worse they use the angry fanboy as a reason to brush off anything they say.

Not true at all. Brand loyalty is what most fanboys are all about. Fallout would come to mind, I remember a fan of the original Fallout sent death threats to Todd Howard. They were, and still are more than ever, raging about Bethesda taking the licensee from Black Isle studios. And then take Obsidian Entertainment, they can churn out anything and everyone would call it a masterpiece. If that's not being a fan of the designers I don't know what is.

I don't doubt your Fallout story, but Fallout 3 is the bestselling game in the series by far so while a few people might have gone insane with rage, clearly most fans didn't care who was at the helm, they were just happy to see a true sequel rather than another spinoff.

Obsidian Entertainment has a vocal but tiny fanbase. Its worth keeping in mind that all of their past commercial successes spring from them hiding behind other people's franchises. Their sole original game (Alpha Protocol) was a commercial failure.

*Shrugs* There are exceptions to my rule. On the Playstations, Naughty Dog has known nothing but success, despite going from Crash to Jax to Uncharted to TLOU. And there are a lot of small developers (such as Vanillaware) whose fans follow them rather than key on a particular franchise.

Yeah, I don't buy that. You can be passionate about something and still be reasonable. Rage is lazy and inconsiderate. And they only get so angry, because they can hide behind anonimity. To call it 'social shortcomings' is a bit harsh, so I'll take that back. But I'm passionate about a lot of things and I can get annoyed when people make statements based on nothing, but I don't rage, insult or make baseless arguments.

Well, I agree there should definitely be fanboys, I just don't agree with the angry and insulting part. And I also agree that it's far more realistic to expect developers to grow a pair and I also think they should be able to deal with criticism, but just because this anger won't go away, you can't expect every individual to be capable of dealing with it and blame them if they can't. And if good games and talent go to waste, because people can't control their emotions, then I will blame the angry people first.

Slightly off topic but "fans are the reason why we see so many clones, ripoffs and sequels." This guy needs to play more games: clones, ripoffs and sequels are what drive the industry forward. Something invented by one game is ripped off and improved upon by another and then the roles switch again, leading to further improvement. Sequels are what allow developers to perfect their own formula, often turning an "ok game" into a masterpiece (see the leap between Uncharted and Uncharted 2).

It doesn't take a degree in game design to understand this concept.

I agree with your statements. Those who are passionate about their respected system are able to have a healthy "debate" towards their system, game, genre, etc. Unfortunately, like everything else in the world...you have those who haven't quite understood the meaning of social interaction. They tend to focus only on the negatives and bash others for absolutely no reason at all. I agree with you that they scare potential players because some people believe if this is the type of person who plays this game on this system...I don't want to be apart of it. For example: Call of Duty... even now when some are reading this they already know the main complaint when it comes to that game (besides no originality) ....the players. The players on that game ruin the experience because they can't simply play the game for fun. Yes, you have your HARDCORE gamers every where in every genre, but there are some who take it way too far! Even on this very website people ruin the experience for others because they troll around and bash others for simply asking a question to something they might not know? Or my favorite, "this question has been asked 1,000,000,000 times....learn to use the search bar!!!!" Why can't that person just simply explain to them how to use it? Or maybe use a little more tact when speaking to others? Who knows!?

Angry fanboys are bad for everything, and it's a waste of everybody's time. It's a shame people are so petty they waste their time bashing on things other people like.