April NPD - 360 in the lead with 130k sold. Can we get some new consoles please?

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#1 Posted by rragnaar (27023 posts) -

Stolen from GAF as usual...

8ugAKJJ.jpg?1

Hardware:

Xbox 360: 130k (A 44.9% drop from last year!)

 

If the number one console sold 130k, we need some price drops and new consoles fast.  Interest is clearly drying up.

#2 Posted by Vari3ty (11111 posts) -

Sony and Microsoft both need to cut the prices of their consoles at E3 to regain some interest in these consoles. At this point the best model for each should be going only for $199.

Edit: And more bad news for Nintendo and the Wii U, obviously. Something drastic needs to be done to save this console. 

#3 Posted by CarnageHeart (18316 posts) -
That's just sad. MS and Sony really need to slash their prices.
#4 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

April is traditionally a terrible month for games. 130k in its 8th year is expected. 720 shouldve come out back in November 2011. This is why MS wasnt good for the industry. They put profit over everything else. 

#5 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

Wow that's low. Is that the lowest it's ever been? Wonder what the others did.

Not so unexpected at this price point though. I can't believe they still have $300 bundles. This is what scares me about the price of next gen consoles. I hope they tank even further.

#6 Posted by juradai (2783 posts) -
I'm glad to see Unjustice doing so well. I think that game deserves it. As for consoles, I expected a low number, especially with news of the next generation of consoles just right around the corner.
#7 Posted by Shame-usBlackley (18266 posts) -

Microsoft: Yueah! WOO HOO, we sold more consoles than anyone else last month, we ROCK DURRRRRRRRR!

So fvcking pathetic to watch this false leader behind the wheel of a dead market. Can we get a real leader who knows what the fvck it's doing back PLEASE?

#8 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

Microsoft: Yueah! WOO HOO, we sold more consoles than anyone else last month, we ROCK DURRRRRRRRR!

So fvcking pathetic to watch this false leader behind the wheel of a dead market. Can we get a real leader who knows what the fvck it's doing back PLEASE?

Shame-usBlackley

Huh? Have you read any of the Sony Family or Nintendo Family PR releases? What exactly do you expect?

#9 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

That 360 number is 42% of all hardware sales. WTF does that mean for Wii U.... yikes.

#10 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

Nintendo gave some numbers"

Nintendo April Numbers:

-Lego City 3DS: 94K digital and physical combined
-Luigis Mansion: Dark Moon: 140K digital and physical combined

Nintendo LTD Numbers:
-Luigis Mansion: Dark Moon: 530K digital and physical combined LTD
-New Super Mario Bros. U: 770K digital and physical combined LTD

Luigi's Mansion deserves all the sales. One of the best games of the year.

#11 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

Nintendo gave some numbers"

Nintendo April Numbers:

-Lego City 3DS: 94K digital and physical combined
-Luigis Mansion: Dark Moon: 140K digital and physical combined

Nintendo LTD Numbers:
-Luigis Mansion: Dark Moon: 530K digital and physical combined LTD
-New Super Mario Bros. U: 770K digital and physical combined LTD

Luigi's Mansion deserves all the sales. One of the best games of the year.

dvader654

It's sickening how well NSMBU sold. Nothing else sells on that f*cking console.

*goes back to play BLOPS2 on Wii U*

#12 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

 

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

Nintendo gave some numbers"

Nintendo April Numbers:

-Lego City 3DS: 94K digital and physical combined
-Luigis Mansion: Dark Moon: 140K digital and physical combined

Nintendo LTD Numbers:
-Luigis Mansion: Dark Moon: 530K digital and physical combined LTD
-New Super Mario Bros. U: 770K digital and physical combined LTD

Luigi's Mansion deserves all the sales. One of the best games of the year.

S0lidSnake

It's sickening how well NSMBU sold. Nothing else sells on that f*cking console.

*goes back to play BLOPS2 on Wii U*

 I was going to say the opposite. Those are LTD, not for the month right? Since when is 770k good for a new Super Mario title? 

I'd have to see some comparison with other Mario titles at launch, because I don't remember off the top of my head, but that doesn't look good to me if Mario can't break 1 million after 5 months. Even if it is 2D.

#13 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

 

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

Nintendo gave some numbers"

Nintendo April Numbers:

-Lego City 3DS: 94K digital and physical combined
-Luigis Mansion: Dark Moon: 140K digital and physical combined

Nintendo LTD Numbers:
-Luigis Mansion: Dark Moon: 530K digital and physical combined LTD
-New Super Mario Bros. U: 770K digital and physical combined LTD

Luigi's Mansion deserves all the sales. One of the best games of the year.

alexwatchtower

It's sickening how well NSMBU sold. Nothing else sells on that f*cking console.

*goes back to play BLOPS2 on Wii U*

 I was going to say the opposite. Those are LTD, not for the month right? Since when is 770k good for a new Super Mario title? 

I'd have to see some comparison with other Mario titles at launch, because I don't remember off the top of my head, but that doesn't look good to me if Mario can't break 1 million after 5 months. Even if it is 2D.

It is LTD.

I think Wii U is at 1.5 million units Worldwide at the moment. 770k is a 50% attach ratio. Pretty amazing to me/

#14 Posted by Grammaton-Cleric (7513 posts) -

Injustice is fantastic so good for them.

#15 Posted by Archangel3371 (15354 posts) -
I'm surprised to see Injustice and Dead Island at number one and number two. Nice to see Bioshock Infinite at number three. Not surprised to see the low hardware numbers, well for the 360 and PS3 at least. Everyone knows the 720 and PS4 are on their way not to mention the time of year along with the current price. I expect price cuts shortly. Poor Wii U is REALLY struggling.
#16 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

 

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

It's sickening how well NSMBU sold. Nothing else sells on that f*cking console.

*goes back to play BLOPS2 on Wii U*

S0lidSnake

 I was going to say the opposite. Those are LTD, not for the month right? Since when is 770k good for a new Super Mario title? 

I'd have to see some comparison with other Mario titles at launch, because I don't remember off the top of my head, but that doesn't look good to me if Mario can't break 1 million after 5 months. Even if it is 2D.

It is LTD.

I think Wii U is at 1.5 million units Worldwide at the moment. 770k is a 50% attach ratio. Pretty amazing to me/

Get out of here...it has to be around 3.5 mil, no? I thought it was at 3.5-4 million shipped last month. You mean to tell me more than 50% of their shipment is on store shelves?

Ok in that case it's not so bad for Mario, but that's way worse than I thought for the Wii U. Wow!

#17 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

 I was going to say the opposite. Those are LTD, not for the month right? Since when is 770k good for a new Super Mario title? 

I'd have to see some comparison with other Mario titles at launch, because I don't remember off the top of my head, but that doesn't look good to me if Mario can't break 1 million after 5 months. Even if it is 2D.

alexwatchtower

It is LTD.

I think Wii U is at 1.5 million units Worldwide at the moment. 770k is a 50% attach ratio. Pretty amazing to me/

Get out of here...it has to be around 3.5 mil, no? I thought it was at 3.5-4 million shipped last month. You mean to tell me more than 50% of their shipment is on store shelves?

Ok in that case it's not so bad for Mario, but that's way worse than I thought for the Wii U. Wow!

Oh, nvm. i had outdated info. yeah the 3.5 million number is shipped. I dont think its sold more than 500K units in NA. I'll try to pull up sales numbers. 

#18 Posted by lozengez (509 posts) -

I'm surprised to see Injustice and Dead Island at number one and number two. Nice to see Bioshock Infinite at number three. Not surprised to see the low hardware numbers, well for the 360 and PS3 at least. Everyone knows the 720 and PS4 are on their way not to mention the time of year along with the current price. I expect price cuts shortly. Poor Wii U is REALLY struggling.Archangel3371

Yeah me too.  I only follow the enthusiast press, wre those two marketed broadly?

#19 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

 

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

It's sickening how well NSMBU sold. Nothing else sells on that f*cking console.

*goes back to play BLOPS2 on Wii U*

S0lidSnake

 I was going to say the opposite. Those are LTD, not for the month right? Since when is 770k good for a new Super Mario title? 

I'd have to see some comparison with other Mario titles at launch, because I don't remember off the top of my head, but that doesn't look good to me if Mario can't break 1 million after 5 months. Even if it is 2D.

It is LTD.

I think Wii U is at 1.5 million units Worldwide at the moment. 770k is a 50% attach ratio. Pretty amazing to me/

This is US only numbers. Wii U just broke a million last month.  NSMBU is at 77% attach rate. 

#20 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

 I was going to say the opposite. Those are LTD, not for the month right? Since when is 770k good for a new Super Mario title? 

I'd have to see some comparison with other Mario titles at launch, because I don't remember off the top of my head, but that doesn't look good to me if Mario can't break 1 million after 5 months. Even if it is 2D.

dvader654

It is LTD.

I think Wii U is at 1.5 million units Worldwide at the moment. 770k is a 50% attach ratio. Pretty amazing to me/

This is US only numbers. Wii U just broke a million last month.  NSMBU is at 77% attach rate. 

I thought that didn't sound right. That attach rate seems about right for a Mario game then.

One million is still terrible, but 500k by April would have made it officially dead. Where is it in terms of world wide sales?

Jesus Christ Nintendo, how can you go from the Wii to this in the blink of an eye? Well I maintain my stance. Bury it. Cut out 50% off coupons on the next console to current Wii U owners. And make a real freaking next-gen console ready to go 2 years from now that outperforms both the PS4/720. It didn't sell enough to piss too many people off if they pull the plug now.

#21 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

It is LTD.

I think Wii U is at 1.5 million units Worldwide at the moment. 770k is a 50% attach ratio. Pretty amazing to me/

alexwatchtower

This is US only numbers. Wii U just broke a million last month.  NSMBU is at 77% attach rate. 

I thought that didn't sound right. That attach rate seems about right for a Mario game then.

One million is still terrible, but 500k by April would have made it officially dead. Where is it in terms of world wide sales?

Jesus Christ Nintendo, how can you go from the Wii to this in the blink of an eye? Well I maintain my stance. Bury it. Cut out 50% off coupons on the next console to current Wii U owners. And make a real freaking next-gen console ready to go 2 years from now that outperforms both the PS4/720. It didn't sell enough to piss too many people off if they pull the plug now.

I think you are right. Like 3.5 million shipped worldwide.
#22 Posted by Archangel3371 (15354 posts) -

[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]I'm surprised to see Injustice and Dead Island at number one and number two. Nice to see Bioshock Infinite at number three. Not surprised to see the low hardware numbers, well for the 360 and PS3 at least. Everyone knows the 720 and PS4 are on their way not to mention the time of year along with the current price. I expect price cuts shortly. Poor Wii U is REALLY struggling.lozengez

Yeah me too.  I only follow the enthusiast press, wre those two marketed broadly?

I saw Dead Island ads pretty regularly and a few Injustice ads so they probably were.
#23 Posted by Madmangamer364 (3588 posts) -

Jesus Christ Nintendo, how can you go from the Wii to this in the blink of an eye? Well I maintain my stance. Bury it. Cut out 50% off coupons on the next console to current Wii U owners. And make a real freaking next-gen console ready to go 2 years from now that outperforms both the PS4/720. It didn't sell enough to piss too many people off if they pull the plug now.

alexwatchtower

I don't know about that... With all due respect, that reeks of Sega-like strategy, which is the last company Nintendo needs to be learning from right now. The Wii U as is is already costing Nintendo money, concerning shareholders, and killing confidence in retailers, third parties publishers/developers, and consumers. A new, more powerful console isn't guaranteed to fix ANY of those things, especially if Nintendo was to release it so soon. Not to mention the whole coupon idea does even more damage to Nintendo's bottom line, assuming Wii U owners would be pleased in buying another Nintendo console so soon to begin with.

Don't want to stray too far off-topic, but I had to mention that. Nintendo has to weather this storm the best in can in the upcoming years and hope its tried-and-true IPs can keep the system afloat long enough to have a reasonable life span, while Nintendo tries to understand just what exactly it can do with its next console to make it at least somewhat desirable.

#24 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

Jesus Christ Nintendo, how can you go from the Wii to this in the blink of an eye? Well I maintain my stance. Bury it. Cut out 50% off coupons on the next console to current Wii U owners. And make a real freaking next-gen console ready to go 2 years from now that outperforms both the PS4/720. It didn't sell enough to piss too many people off if they pull the plug now.

Madmangamer364

I don't know about that... With all due respect, that reeks of Sega-like strategy, which is the last company Nintendo needs to be learning from right now. The Wii U as is is already costing Nintendo money, concerning shareholders, and killing confidence in retailers, third parties publishers/developers, and consumers. A new, more powerful console isn't guaranteed to fix ANY of those things, especially if Nintendo was to release it so soon. Not to mention the whole coupon idea does even more damage to Nintendo's bottom line, assuming Wii U owners would be pleased in buying another Nintendo console so soon to begin with.

Don't want to stray too far off-topic, but I had to mention that. Nintendo has to weather this storm the best in can in the upcoming years and hope its tried-and-true IPs can keep the system afloat long enough to have a reasonable life span, while Nintendo tries to understand just what exactly it can do with its next console to make it at least somewhat desirable.

No Sega's strategy was to continue supporting failed hardware which eventually led them to not having enough cash to continue. Sega was mismanaged as hell. And still are.

I don't think extending this out is going to help them if sales don't pick up. You gotta realize when you have a console like the Wii, they are used to a certain revenue stream. You can't possibly just weather the storm without making massive cuts in a lot of areas if the Wii U doesn't bring in some serious revenue. 

#25 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

New numbers

PSV Soul Sacrifice ~ 33k

Console sales:

360>ps3>100k>50k>Wii>40k>WiiU>33k

Wii U in the 30k range. YIKES.

Vita < 20k  DAMN

#26 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

New numbers

PSV Soul Sacrifice ~ 33k

Console sales:

360>ps3>100k>50k>Wii>40k>WiiU>33k

Wii U in the 30k range. YIKES.

Vita < 20k  DAMN

dvader654

Woah....

I think that about does it. If they're smart, they're scrambling jets and start working on the next console now.

As massive as this drop is, a turnaround to bring this thing back around, would be just as unprecedented. Beyond creating the next Pokemon, I don't see how they turn this around with the 720/PS4 coming out in the fall and the loss of third party support.

 

33k a month means under 10k a week...in the USA. To put things in perspective these are similar to 360's post launch numbers numbers per week...in Japan!

#27 Posted by 1PMrFister (3134 posts) -

No Sega's strategy was to continue supporting failed hardware which eventually led them to not having enough cash to continue. Sega was mismanaged as hell. And still are.

I don't think extending this out is going to help them if sales don't pick up. You gotta realize when you have a console like the Wii, they are used to a certain revenue stream. You can't possibly just weather the storm without making massive cuts in a lot of areas if the Wii U doesn't bring in some serious revenue. 

alexwatchtower
Sega's problem wasn't continuing to support failing hardware, it was continuing to crank out multiple systems in rapid succession, causing major problems in consumer confusion and confidence. It's still too soon to officially declare the Wii-U a complete bust, no matter how much negative news it continues to pick up. We still have to give it at least to the holidays when some of Nintendo's heavy-hitters are supposedly getting released. If things are still going badly for it, then they can start making plans to introduce a new system.
#28 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

Sega's problem wasn't continuing to support failing hardware, it was continuing to crank out multiple systems in rapid succession, causing major problems in consumer confusion and confidence. It's still too soon to officially declare the Wii-U a complete bust, no matter how much negative news it continues to pick up. We still have to give it at least to the holidays when some of Nintendo's heavy-hitters are supposedly getting released. If things are still going badly for it, then they can start making plans to introduce a new system.1PMrFister

Well it didn't help because Sega had their hands in the Saturn, Arcade hardware and Dreamcast R&D, and developing games like Shenmue which began on the Saturn, all at the same time. That's where they suffered most of their damage.

As far as the Wii U, forget the negative news. That doesn't really matter and it's the least of the Wii U's worries. The under 10k per week sales and publishers jumping out is a real problem though. 

How much do you expect Nintendo's heavy hitters to turn things around this fall though with the 720/PS4 coming out? Again, unless Nintendo pulls a miracle out of a hat with something along the lines of Pokemon, what kind of software do you see spiking consoles sales enough to turn it around?

#29 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

Monthly, launch-aligned.

LTD, launch-aligned.


Against Vita, weekly average in post-launch months.

OMG the Wii U is selling worse monthly than the Vita did. 

#30 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

I think the 770K figure of Mario is a good sign. It shows that Nintendo software still sells. I think come November when all the moms go out to buy a Mario game, they will see that its only available on the Wii U and will buy it along with the game. Just like they did with the 3DS. Nintendo should have it down to $250 by then.

They will be fine. 

#31 Posted by Madmangamer364 (3588 posts) -

No Sega's strategy was to continue supporting failed hardware which eventually led them to not having enough cash to continue. Sega was mismanaged as hell. And still are.

I don't think extending this out is going to help them if sales don't pick up. You gotta realize when you have a console like the Wii, they are used to a certain revenue stream. You can't possibly just weather the storm without making massive cuts in a lot of areas if the Wii U doesn't bring in some serious revenue. 

alexwatchtower

In all likelyhood, if Nintendo was to axe the Wii U for a PS4/Xbox Infinity counterpart, the losses Nintendo's facing now are only going to be compounded by even more losses. Sega threw out more hardware in a relatively short span of time (Genesis, CD, 32X, Game Gear, Nomad, Pico, Saturn, Dreamcast) than anyone should ever have, yet, it's not a really hard thing to do if you're going to pack it in for one console so quickly. What works in Nintendo's favor is a history being able to hold its own during software droughts because of the strength of its own IPs. That's not to say the Wii U will have that same luxury, but even a little momentum will allow the Wii U to be around for a decent amount of time.

Unfortunately, Nintendo may never have a console that can generate Wii-like revenue again. The momentum that was created by the system's success is almost entirely gone at this point, and it's going to take a sound, if not also radical approach for Nintendo to reposition itself as a viable AND profitable console maker again. I definitely don't think the solution is a more powerful system that's likely to discourage people just as much, if not more, than the Wii U is doing right now because of its costs and the fact that Nintendo pulled the plug on its last system so quickly. To me, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. If Nintendo's going to take its lumps, it's probably best to just take them right now and begin the healing & learning process as soon as possible.

#32 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

No Sega's strategy was to continue supporting failed hardware which eventually led them to not having enough cash to continue. Sega was mismanaged as hell. And still are.

I don't think extending this out is going to help them if sales don't pick up. You gotta realize when you have a console like the Wii, they are used to a certain revenue stream. You can't possibly just weather the storm without making massive cuts in a lot of areas if the Wii U doesn't bring in some serious revenue. 

Madmangamer364

In all likelyhood, if Nintendo was to axe the Wii U for a PS4/Xbox Infinity counterpart, the losses Nintendo's facing now are only going to be compounded by even more losses. Sega threw out more hardware in a relatively short span of time (Genesis, CD, 32X, Game Gear, Nomad, Pico, Saturn, Dreamcast) than anyone should ever have, yet, it's not a really hard thing to do if you're going to pack it in for one console so quickly. What works in Nintendo's favor is a history being able to hold its own during software droughts because of the strength of its own IPs. That's not to say the Wii U will have that same luxury, but even a little momentum will allow the Wii U to be around for a decent amount of time.

Unfortunately, Nintendo may never have a console that can generate Wii-like revenue again. The momentum that was created by the system's success is almost entirely gone at this point, and it's going to take a sound, if not also radical approach for Nintendo to reposition itself as a viable AND profitable console maker again. I definitely don't think the solution is a more powerful system that's likely to discourage people just as much, if not more, than the Wii U is doing right now because of its costs and the fact that Nintendo pulled the plug on its last system so quickly. To me, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. If Nintendo's going to take its lumps, it's probably best to just take them right now and begin the healing & learning process as soon as possible.

 

The only way I see them getting back on the horse, assuming the console industry remains healthy, is to offer what Sony/MS offers PLUS Nintendo. Great hardware, geared towards the core gamers, third party support PLUS Nintendo games. Not "in exchange for" which has been the case with Nintendo hardware for a few generations now. They also need to back off a little bit, and realize much the way Sony and MS did, that when you are the leader in hardware sales, you shouldn't be flooding the market with your own games. Leave room for third party developers and make your money off royalty fees. Help third party developers make money. Nintendo have always been kind of greedy when it comes to that. They wanted third party support and to feature and push their games above anyone else's. Doesn't work that way.

Sega, oth, made a number of hardware mistakes in succession. That's a big difference. Nintendo can afford one and bounce back. Any company can. They did it with the Virtual Boy.

But they need games that are not just Nintendo, but that push the envelope to appeal to the rest of the core gamers out there like they once did.  Either that, or like I said, something cooky and strange and wildly popular like Pokemon.

#33 Posted by Shinobishyguy (22420 posts) -

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

No Sega's strategy was to continue supporting failed hardware which eventually led them to not having enough cash to continue. Sega was mismanaged as hell. And still are.

I don't think extending this out is going to help them if sales don't pick up. You gotta realize when you have a console like the Wii, they are used to a certain revenue stream. You can't possibly just weather the storm without making massive cuts in a lot of areas if the Wii U doesn't bring in some serious revenue. 

alexwatchtower

In all likelyhood, if Nintendo was to axe the Wii U for a PS4/Xbox Infinity counterpart, the losses Nintendo's facing now are only going to be compounded by even more losses. Sega threw out more hardware in a relatively short span of time (Genesis, CD, 32X, Game Gear, Nomad, Pico, Saturn, Dreamcast) than anyone should ever have, yet, it's not a really hard thing to do if you're going to pack it in for one console so quickly. What works in Nintendo's favor is a history being able to hold its own during software droughts because of the strength of its own IPs. That's not to say the Wii U will have that same luxury, but even a little momentum will allow the Wii U to be around for a decent amount of time.

Unfortunately, Nintendo may never have a console that can generate Wii-like revenue again. The momentum that was created by the system's success is almost entirely gone at this point, and it's going to take a sound, if not also radical approach for Nintendo to reposition itself as a viable AND profitable console maker again. I definitely don't think the solution is a more powerful system that's likely to discourage people just as much, if not more, than the Wii U is doing right now because of its costs and the fact that Nintendo pulled the plug on its last system so quickly. To me, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. If Nintendo's going to take its lumps, it's probably best to just take them right now and begin the healing & learning process as soon as possible.

 

The only way I see them getting back on the horse, assuming the console industry remains healthy, is to offer what Sony/MS offers PLUS Nintendo. Great hardware, geared towards the core gamers, third party support PLUS Nintendo games. Not "in exchange for" which has been the case with Nintendo hardware for a few generations now. They also need to back off a little bit, and realize much the way Sony and MS did, that when you are the leader in hardware sales, you shouldn't be flooding the market with your own games. Leave room for third party developers and make your money off royalty fees. Help third party developers make money. Nintendo have always been kind of greedy when it comes to that. They wanted third party support and to feature and push their games above anyone else's. Doesn't work that way.

Sega, oth, made a number of hardware mistakes in succession. That's a big difference. Nintendo can afford one and bounce back. Any company can. They did it with the Virtual Boy.

But they need games that are not just Nintendo, but that push the envelope to appeal to the rest of the core gamers out there like they once did.  Either that, or like I said, something cooky and strange and wildly popular like Pokemon.

Yeeeeah, they tried backing off and giving third parties breathing room during the launch of the 3ds and wii u.

That didn't work out so well.

#34 Posted by rragnaar (27023 posts) -

I think the 770K figure of Mario is a good sign. It shows that Nintendo software still sells. I think come November when all the moms go out to buy a Mario game, they will see that its only available on the Wii U and will buy it along with the game. Just like they did with the 3DS. Nintendo should have it down to $250 by then.

They will be fine. 

S0lidSnake
I agree to a point. Nintendo will have a captive audience that will buy most anything they release. If they can keep that high attach rate, they don't need to sell that much hardware.
#35 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

If there is one company that understands how to make money in this industry it is Nintendo. They will be fine, they will figure this out. Its going to be ugly compared to the Wii years but I dont expect them to dump the Wii U. 

This is the profits between the three main console makers. Only game divisions for Sony and MS.

zYw1A_zps3ab31986.jpg

#36 Posted by c_rakestraw (14599 posts) -

Yeeeeah, they tried backing off and giving third parties breathing room during the launch of the 3ds and wii u.

That didn't work out so well.

Shinobishyguy

They've been burned too many times before. Only way they're going to be able to garner third-party support is if Nintendo can guarantee their success.

#37 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -


^well yes and no. during the gamecube days, the handheld sales kept them profitable. that and gc was always sold for a profit. the problem now is that both the 3ds and wii u are beind sold for a loss. they lost moneyfor the first time last year. it might be the same this year.

#38 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

 Yeeeeah, they tried backing off and giving third parties breathing room during the launch of the 3ds and wii u.

That didn't work out so well.

Shinobishyguy

Might have been too late at this point and their hardware design was their own choice. I highly doubt they went around the world asking developers what they wanted, or core gamers, and they said we want old tech, low RAM, and the Wii U controller. They went their own way, caught lighting in a bottle, and now thought they could replicate it but they seem to have been very secluded and introverted when it comes to working together with the industry to push it forward.

#39 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -


^well yes and no. during the gamecube days, the handheld sales kept them profitable. that and gc was always sold for a profit. the problem now is that both the 3ds and wii u are beind sold for a loss. they lost moneyfor the first time last year. it might be the same this year.

S0lidSnake
Actually the Japanese strength of yen kept Nintendo profitable last year but that was totally by accident. Are they still selling 3DS at a loss? Well see the first time they adopt the strategy of the other two they lose money. :P
#40 Posted by Madmangamer364 (3588 posts) -

The only way I see them getting back on the horse, assuming the console industry remains healthy, is to offer what Sony/MS offers PLUS Nintendo. Great hardware, geared towards the core gamers, third party support PLUS Nintendo games. Not "in exchange for" which has been the case with Nintendo hardware for a few generations now. They also need to back off a little bit, and realize much the way Sony and MS did, that when you are the leader in hardware sales, you shouldn't be flooding the market with your own games. Leave room for third party developers and make your money off royalty fees. Help third party developers make money. Nintendo have always been kind of greedy when it comes to that. They wanted third party support and to feature and push their games above anyone else's. Doesn't work that way.

Sega, oth, made a number of hardware mistakes in succession. That's a big difference. Nintendo can afford one and bounce back. Any company can. They did it with the Virtual Boy.

But they need games that are not just Nintendo, but that push the envelope to appeal to the rest of the core gamers out there like they once did.  Either that, or like I said, something cooky and strange and wildly popular like Pokemon.

alexwatchtower

I believe this is where we'll have our difference in opinion then. What you're mentioning is why I think Nintendo has and will continue to struggle as we speak. Sony/MS's model simply doesn't work to Nintendo's advantage, and I feel the relationship between the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii U is a perfect example of this. Sure, the Wii U came out 6/7 years later, but even though it's closely compared to platforms that old, the Wii U is still costing Nintendo more money to make than it can get back AND selling poorly. Honestly, I just don't think the so-called "core gamer" market works to Nintendo's favor at all, especially considering what it would have to do just to have a chance to cater to it.

If anything, Nintendo's much more likely to create that "strange and wildly popular" game than it is to be relevant and successful in the conventional market at this point. Heck, it was with games like Wii Sports, Nintendogs, and Brain Age that propelled Nintendo to the new heights it reached only a handful of years ago. Not only can those games reach out to an audience outside of Nintendo's niche more effectively than settling for being the third wheel to MS and Sony's platforms, Nintendo can also do it without such major financial risks or with the (false?) hope that third party content is ever going to be enough to help carry the load alongside the usual Mario and Co. However, Nintendo has no chance to sell such games with $400+ hardware and consoles focused on a very specific group of consumers (the "core gamer"). Much like with the DS and Wii, it's going to take a focus on creating a platform with a very unique philosophy and approach to game design.

It's either this or following the AAA game-design herd that has faced its share of losses in recent years. Just not sure how long Nintendo will be able to survive in such a climate, especially if it's only able to get a relatively small piece of a pie that everyone else is trying so desperately to get their hands on.

#41 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

The only way I see them getting back on the horse, assuming the console industry remains healthy, is to offer what Sony/MS offers PLUS Nintendo. Great hardware, geared towards the core gamers, third party support PLUS Nintendo games. Not "in exchange for" which has been the case with Nintendo hardware for a few generations now. They also need to back off a little bit, and realize much the way Sony and MS did, that when you are the leader in hardware sales, you shouldn't be flooding the market with your own games. Leave room for third party developers and make your money off royalty fees. Help third party developers make money. Nintendo have always been kind of greedy when it comes to that. They wanted third party support and to feature and push their games above anyone else's. Doesn't work that way.

Sega, oth, made a number of hardware mistakes in succession. That's a big difference. Nintendo can afford one and bounce back. Any company can. They did it with the Virtual Boy.

But they need games that are not just Nintendo, but that push the envelope to appeal to the rest of the core gamers out there like they once did.  Either that, or like I said, something cooky and strange and wildly popular like Pokemon.

Madmangamer364

I believe this is where we'll have our difference in opinion then. What you're mentioning is why I think Nintendo has and will continue to struggle as we speak. Sony/MS's model simply doesn't work to Nintendo's advantage, and I feel the relationship between the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii U is a perfect example of this. Sure, the Wii U came out 6/7 years later, but even though it's closely compared to platforms that old, the Wii U is still costing Nintendo more money to make than it can get back AND selling poorly. Honestly, I just don't think the so-called "core gamer" market works to Nintendo's favor at all, especially considering what it would have to do just to have a chance to cater to it.

If anything, Nintendo's much more likely to create that "strange and wildly popular" game than it is to be relevant and successful in the conventional market at this point. Heck, it was with games like Wii Sports, Nintendogs, and Brain Age that propelled Nintendo to the new heights it reached only a handful of years ago. Not only can those games reach out to an audience outside of Nintendo's niche more effectively than settling for being the third wheel to MS and Sony's platforms, Nintendo can also do it without such major financial risks or with the (false?) hope that third party content is ever going to be enough to help carry the load alongside the usual Mario and Co. However, Nintendo has no chance to sell such games with $400+ hardware and consoles focused on a very specific group of consumers (the "core gamer"). Much like with the DS and Wii, it's going to take a focus on creating a platform with a very unique philosophy and approach to game design.

It's either this or following the AAA game-design herd that has faced its share of losses in recent years. Just not sure how long Nintendo will be able to survive in such a climate, especially if it's only able to get a relatively small piece of a pie that everyone else is trying so desperately to get their hands on.

Yeah I guess we do. I believe they need to come back to their roots and appeal to the core gamers. Some of us, at least me, are still waiting and have been waiting since the day they showed Celda and Sunshine for a TRUE next gen, technology driving sequel to games like Mario 64, Wave Race 64 and Zelda 64. To this day they have not done that and when they did, they still felt dated compared to what was out at the time on competing consoles. I don't know how many people feel this way, but the Nintendo name alone is not enough for me. I love their games, but without the innovation and tech behind it, it's not enough.

If anything the fickle casual market has proved one thing: easy come, easy go. 

#42 Posted by Vari3ty (11111 posts) -

So EA has completely pulled the plug on the Wii U, at least for now. Then again, considering how well most 3rd parties do on Nintendo's hardware, maybe this won't matter much. 

#43 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

The only way I see them getting back on the horse, assuming the console industry remains healthy, is to offer what Sony/MS offers PLUS Nintendo. Great hardware, geared towards the core gamers, third party support PLUS Nintendo games. Not "in exchange for" which has been the case with Nintendo hardware for a few generations now. They also need to back off a little bit, and realize much the way Sony and MS did, that when you are the leader in hardware sales, you shouldn't be flooding the market with your own games. Leave room for third party developers and make your money off royalty fees. Help third party developers make money. Nintendo have always been kind of greedy when it comes to that. They wanted third party support and to feature and push their games above anyone else's. Doesn't work that way.

Sega, oth, made a number of hardware mistakes in succession. That's a big difference. Nintendo can afford one and bounce back. Any company can. They did it with the Virtual Boy.

But they need games that are not just Nintendo, but that push the envelope to appeal to the rest of the core gamers out there like they once did.  Either that, or like I said, something cooky and strange and wildly popular like Pokemon.

Madmangamer364

I believe this is where we'll have our difference in opinion then. What you're mentioning is why I think Nintendo has and will continue to struggle as we speak. Sony/MS's model simply doesn't work to Nintendo's advantage, and I feel the relationship between the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii U is a perfect example of this. Sure, the Wii U came out 6/7 years later, but even though it's closely compared to platforms that old, the Wii U is still costing Nintendo more money to make than it can get back AND selling poorly. Honestly, I just don't think the so-called "core gamer" market works to Nintendo's favor at all, especially considering what it would have to do just to have a chance to cater to it.

If anything, Nintendo's much more likely to create that "strange and wildly popular" game than it is to be relevant and successful in the conventional market at this point. Heck, it was with games like Wii Sports, Nintendogs, and Brain Age that propelled Nintendo to the new heights it reached only a handful of years ago. Not only can those games reach out to an audience outside of Nintendo's niche more effectively than settling for being the third wheel to MS and Sony's platforms, Nintendo can also do it without such major financial risks or with the (false?) hope that third party content is ever going to be enough to help carry the load alongside the usual Mario and Co. However, Nintendo has no chance to sell such games with $400+ hardware and consoles focused on a very specific group of consumers (the "core gamer"). Much like with the DS and Wii, it's going to take a focus on creating a platform with a very unique philosophy and approach to game design.

It's either this or following the AAA game-design herd that has faced its share of losses in recent years. Just not sure how long Nintendo will be able to survive in such a climate, especially if it's only able to get a relatively small piece of a pie that everyone else is trying so desperately to get their hands on.

This is a very interesting post. While looking at that chart i was thinking about how Nintendo basically avoided the whole practically toxic atmosphere of this gen where its all monster budgets, selling hardware at a loss, needing to sell insane amount of units and DLC to even be profitable. Nintendo had their magic, stayed out of the arms race and profited greatly. ONE YEAR into them having no choice but to join this modern era of gaming and they are falling apart. 

You are right, Nintendo may not have any role in this new kind of game market. I am not saying its all this gens fault, Nintendo made a bunch of mistakes with the Wii U but some of that might be a product of them not being used to this giant budget, huge online focused world they have no entered. 

#44 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

The only way I see them getting back on the horse, assuming the console industry remains healthy, is to offer what Sony/MS offers PLUS Nintendo. Great hardware, geared towards the core gamers, third party support PLUS Nintendo games. Not "in exchange for" which has been the case with Nintendo hardware for a few generations now. They also need to back off a little bit, and realize much the way Sony and MS did, that when you are the leader in hardware sales, you shouldn't be flooding the market with your own games. Leave room for third party developers and make your money off royalty fees. Help third party developers make money. Nintendo have always been kind of greedy when it comes to that. They wanted third party support and to feature and push their games above anyone else's. Doesn't work that way.

Sega, oth, made a number of hardware mistakes in succession. That's a big difference. Nintendo can afford one and bounce back. Any company can. They did it with the Virtual Boy.

But they need games that are not just Nintendo, but that push the envelope to appeal to the rest of the core gamers out there like they once did.  Either that, or like I said, something cooky and strange and wildly popular like Pokemon.

dvader654

I believe this is where we'll have our difference in opinion then. What you're mentioning is why I think Nintendo has and will continue to struggle as we speak. Sony/MS's model simply doesn't work to Nintendo's advantage, and I feel the relationship between the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii U is a perfect example of this. Sure, the Wii U came out 6/7 years later, but even though it's closely compared to platforms that old, the Wii U is still costing Nintendo more money to make than it can get back AND selling poorly. Honestly, I just don't think the so-called "core gamer" market works to Nintendo's favor at all, especially considering what it would have to do just to have a chance to cater to it.

If anything, Nintendo's much more likely to create that "strange and wildly popular" game than it is to be relevant and successful in the conventional market at this point. Heck, it was with games like Wii Sports, Nintendogs, and Brain Age that propelled Nintendo to the new heights it reached only a handful of years ago. Not only can those games reach out to an audience outside of Nintendo's niche more effectively than settling for being the third wheel to MS and Sony's platforms, Nintendo can also do it without such major financial risks or with the (false?) hope that third party content is ever going to be enough to help carry the load alongside the usual Mario and Co. However, Nintendo has no chance to sell such games with $400+ hardware and consoles focused on a very specific group of consumers (the "core gamer"). Much like with the DS and Wii, it's going to take a focus on creating a platform with a very unique philosophy and approach to game design.

It's either this or following the AAA game-design herd that has faced its share of losses in recent years. Just not sure how long Nintendo will be able to survive in such a climate, especially if it's only able to get a relatively small piece of a pie that everyone else is trying so desperately to get their hands on.

This is a very interesting post. While looking at that chart i was thinking about how Nintendo basically avoided the whole practically toxic atmosphere of this gen where its all monster budgets, selling hardware at a loss, needing to sell insane amount of units and DLC to even be profitable. Nintendo had their magic, stayed out of the arms race and profited greatly. ONE YEAR into them having no choice but to join this modern era of gaming and they are falling apart. 

You are right, Nintendo may not have any role in this new kind of game market. I am not saying its all this gens fault, Nintendo made a bunch of mistakes with the Wii U but some of that might be a product of them not being used to this giant budget, huge online focused world they have no entered. 

Having high tech capable hardware doesn't mean you have to create Hollywood-level experiences. I don't buy the cries of these developers. They don't HAVE to do that. Capable hardware can actually lower developer costs. Same game being developed on more powerful hardware means they don't have to spend hundreds or thousands of man hours developing tricks to deal with hardware limitation.

The fact there are companies making big budget titles means they see a larger profit to be had from that.

#45 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

I believe this is where we'll have our difference in opinion then. What you're mentioning is why I think Nintendo has and will continue to struggle as we speak. Sony/MS's model simply doesn't work to Nintendo's advantage, and I feel the relationship between the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii U is a perfect example of this. Sure, the Wii U came out 6/7 years later, but even though it's closely compared to platforms that old, the Wii U is still costing Nintendo more money to make than it can get back AND selling poorly. Honestly, I just don't think the so-called "core gamer" market works to Nintendo's favor at all, especially considering what it would have to do just to have a chance to cater to it.

If anything, Nintendo's much more likely to create that "strange and wildly popular" game than it is to be relevant and successful in the conventional market at this point. Heck, it was with games like Wii Sports, Nintendogs, and Brain Age that propelled Nintendo to the new heights it reached only a handful of years ago. Not only can those games reach out to an audience outside of Nintendo's niche more effectively than settling for being the third wheel to MS and Sony's platforms, Nintendo can also do it without such major financial risks or with the (false?) hope that third party content is ever going to be enough to help carry the load alongside the usual Mario and Co. However, Nintendo has no chance to sell such games with $400+ hardware and consoles focused on a very specific group of consumers (the "core gamer"). Much like with the DS and Wii, it's going to take a focus on creating a platform with a very unique philosophy and approach to game design.

It's either this or following the AAA game-design herd that has faced its share of losses in recent years. Just not sure how long Nintendo will be able to survive in such a climate, especially if it's only able to get a relatively small piece of a pie that everyone else is trying so desperately to get their hands on.

alexwatchtower

This is a very interesting post. While looking at that chart i was thinking about how Nintendo basically avoided the whole practically toxic atmosphere of this gen where its all monster budgets, selling hardware at a loss, needing to sell insane amount of units and DLC to even be profitable. Nintendo had their magic, stayed out of the arms race and profited greatly. ONE YEAR into them having no choice but to join this modern era of gaming and they are falling apart. 

You are right, Nintendo may not have any role in this new kind of game market. I am not saying its all this gens fault, Nintendo made a bunch of mistakes with the Wii U but some of that might be a product of them not being used to this giant budget, huge online focused world they have no entered. 

Having high tech capable hardware doesn't mean you have to create Hollywood-level experiences. I don't buy the cries of these developers. They don't HAVE to do that. Capable hardware can actually lower developer costs. Same game being developed on more powerful hardware means they don't have to spend hundreds or thousands of man hours developing tricks to deal with hardware limitation.

The fact there are companies making big budget titles means they see a larger profit to be had from that.

Then why are almost all of the big developers doing the same exact thing? It does seem broken, stupid and mindboggeling that it takes 600 people to make one game. But basically all big devs are doing the exact same thing, there is no way the entire industry is stupid and has no clue how to make games. There is a reason this is constantly happening.

#46 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

Then why are almost all of the big developers doing the same exact thing? It does seem broken, stupid and mindboggeling that it takes 600 people to make one game. But basically all big devs are doing the exact same thing, there is no way the entire industry is stupid and has no clue how to make games. There is a reason this is constantly happening.

dvader654

Because people buy it.

And they all want to converge and direct their resources to making fewer, higher quality games, establish a popular IP's, which will then be easy to create sequels for a higher level of profits. When they have most of the art, engine, experience etc...

It's really not that much different than how Nintendo makes their high quality titles. Some third party developers want to churn out these AAA, high production games.

But I don't think it stops anyone from doing something more modest, and more capable hardware would only help those wanting to do something like this.

#47 Posted by S0lidSnake (29001 posts) -

Then why are almost all of the big developers doing the same exact thing? It does seem broken, stupid and mindboggeling that it takes 600 people to make one game. But basically all big devs are doing the exact same thing, there is no way the entire industry is stupid and has no clue how to make games. There is a reason this is constantly happening.

dvader654

No they arent. It's just Ubisoft who is making all their studios work on AC games and Capcom. It took Epic a total of 45 people to make all three gearts games. ND is 150 people working on two IPs. GG is 200 people working on 2 IPs. PD is 100 people.

#48 Posted by dvader654 (44752 posts) -

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

Then why are almost all of the big developers doing the same exact thing? It does seem broken, stupid and mindboggeling that it takes 600 people to make one game. But basically all big devs are doing the exact same thing, there is no way the entire industry is stupid and has no clue how to make games. There is a reason this is constantly happening.

alexwatchtower

Because people buy it.

And they all want to converge and direct their resources to making fewer, higher quality games, establish a popular IP's, which will then be easy to create sequels for a higher level of profits. When they have most of the art, engine, experience etc...

It's really not that much different than how Nintendo makes their high quality titles. Some third party developers want to churn out these AAA, high production games.

But I don't think it stops anyone from doing something more modest, and more capable hardware would only help those wanting to do something like this.

But how can someone that wants to do something modest compete with the big boys. The success stories like Minecraft is the exception more than the rule. The middle ground seems to be disappearing in the console market.
#49 Posted by Madmangamer364 (3588 posts) -

Yeah I guess we do. I believe they need to come back to their roots and appeal to the core gamers. Some of us, at least me, are still waiting and have been waiting since the day they showed Celda and Sunshine for a TRUE next gen, technology driving sequel to games like Mario 64, Wave Race 64 and Zelda 64. To this day they have not done that and when they did, they still felt dated compared to what was out at the time on competing consoles. I don't know how many people feel this way, but the Nintendo name alone is not enough for me. I love their games, but without the innovation and tech behind it, it's not enough.

If anything the fickle casual market has proved one thing: easy come, easy go. 

alexwatchtower

What ARE Nintendo's roots, though? Look at Nintendo's most successful games and systems. Guess what... they where products that expanded the market and reached out to a wider group of consumers. NES, Game Boy, DS, Wii... Super Mario, Tetris, Pokemon, Wii Fit... they all aimed to be simple, approachable ideas to entice to new players, while using being deep enough for the existing player. None of them were invented to wow people through visuals or scale, but through accessibility and adaptability to an individual player's preference, whether he/she be skilled or new. Everything else, including the "glory days" of the SNES, has only seen millions of people lose interest in Nintendo systems and find platforms with designs more to their liking. The irony is that it's the "casual" market that is called fickle, yet Nintendo has seen it's conventional platforms become decreasingly relevant.

IMO, Nintendo's offerings with the DS/Wii were as good as they've ever offered, but that's all subjective at the end of the day. I could go on and on about the beauty of the having greatness of the Super Mario Galaxy games, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Pokemon Black & White 1&2 while also offering truly unique titles like Wii Sports, Art Academy, and Brain Age to compliment them... but it doesn't really matter. What's important is that if anything, Nintendo was closer to its roots with those two platforms as it has been in many years. There were innovative and used technology... just not in the way many have come to expect. However, expectations don't change the fact that Nintendo was able to do what it does best with those two platforms, and I think universal appeal is what the Wii U is missing more than anything.

#50 Posted by alexwatchtower (1561 posts) -

But how can someone that wants to do something modest compete with the big boys. The success stories like Minecraft is the exception more than the rule. The middle ground seems to be disappearing in the console market.dvader654

But why does everyone have to compete with the big boys? If you have a 5 million dollar budget, make the best game you can for 5 million dollars.

Why should developers with small budget expect to compete and create games that compete with the high budget game makers?

If anything, maybe Sony/MS need to start considering different levels of game prices.