This topic is locked from further discussion.

#151 Posted by Gallion-Beast (35803 posts) -
Firstly, thank you very much for moving towards a compromise! It really is fantastic that you're willing to listen to users and attempt to address their concerns. Secondly, your terms are horrendous, and are currently not a better alternative than moving off site. The ability of the community to eject people who are disrespectful to other members is essential to foster the atmosphere than Unions have, and relying on "The mods will ban them if they post pornagraphic content or have been trolling for years" isn't sufficient. Community policing is essential, and the insular nature of unions means moderation from detached authority figures who aren't part of the community making decisions according to gamespot's TOS instead of "Is this the best thing for the board's community" simply isn't good enough. Adressing michaelP4's arguements against moving offsite: [
1) How will you get new recruits? 2) What will be the ToU? 3) Who will keep the leader and officers in check - can you trust them with a huge amount of control and power? 4) What about other features - GS will have an entire site load of features - will you be able to keep up?michaelP4
1) With great difficulty. This is the primary reason unions wish to remain a part of gamespot, if this was not a factor there would be no reason to fight for unions to continue to exist, we would move and not put up with the BS. But giving us our unions in name only is not enough to make up for it. 2) Something to the effect of "1. Be respectful. 2. Be reasonably safe for work". Unions are groups of friends, it's not the same as running an open board that is trying to maximise it's number of users for ad revenue. 3) The leaders and officers are a major part of the community, if they were a problem in the first place there would be no community to care about. Besides, the most they'll be able to do is kick you out and edit your posts, they can already do that in their own union. 4) Videos, reviews, other forums? Unions are the only thing gamespot provides that are not easily available on many other sites to the same level of quality. If gamespot cannot be convinced to not take our communities away from us (and removing community control is doing just that, whether you slap our name on a a regular games board or not), then showing it brand loyalty would be masochistic.
#152 Posted by The-Apostle (12141 posts) -

Gamespot.com removes unions from the front page, and wonders why new people aren't using them.

SAVE THE UNIONS!

starduke
This.
#153 Posted by gunslinger024 (326 posts) -

[QUOTE="michaelP4"]We're very quick to focus on the negative. Here's the positive: we managed to get GS to rethink its position regarding unions. That's quite significant. One thing that is certain is the unions feature itself will be gone. However, the communities - the most important part - will be preserved in some shape or form. Sure, you may not be able to control the board anymore, but honestly, the only powers you had were closing and sticking topics. How often did you do that? And yes, you can and should rely on mods to help you out - that's what we're here for. So don't be afraid to ask one of us to stick or close a topic. Chances are, one of us may even be a regular at your board, and will help keep it clean. As for positions within the communities: you can still have an informal organisation. Create a topic detailing who is what and does what - that should provide recognition. The leader and officer positions in reality only gave you a tag and the power to close/stick topics - they weren't that great really and were all for show. You can still achieve that same effect of organisation. At the end of the day, we have been victorious here. We got GS to rethink what its doing. Instead of no unions, we've got a guarantee that they will be continued as regular boards (which is really what unions are for the most part). GS aren't obligate to do that and have been quite generous to us for doing that. You no longer have to move off site to continue your communities - which is a lot harder than it sounds. How will you get new recruits? What will be the ToU? Who will keep the leader and officers in check - can you trust them with a huge amount of control and power? What about other features - GS will have an entire site load of features - will you be able to keep up? Moving off site sounds attractive at first, but when you get into the details, it's actually harder than you'd think. GS has taken care of the stuff I've listed and more. You will miss its supporting structure if you were to go off site. With what we have achieved, I don't think any community needs to leave GS now - but of course, it's entirely up to them.Juniorpower
Agreed with you Michael. GS has done everything they could for Unions. THis Thread has saved unions (to the Extent that they get moved to Forum Boards) So its good just gotta rely on Moderators like Me and the Rest of the Team to help you out :)

I appreciate GS listening to its users and doing what they asked and to all the people who supported this topic I thank you :) I just wanna point out that a large portion of the community has already left and will not come back so bringing out the bad news first might have been a bad idea. I can live without having control of my board, as long as there is a moderator doing its job, so it turns out I am looking forward to what GS has to offer and thanks again for keeping unions alive! :D

#154 Posted by Dshenlong (4613 posts) -

From what I understand Unions have been fighting for upgrades and better service for years now, but you guys at Gamespot have continually just ignored them and given them less support until you say youre going to be rid of them altogether, and now that there is an uproar, this is your solution? Perhaps if you guys had come up with a compromise when people were trying to compromise with you in the first place this mess would not have happened, and now you're trying to implement these quick fixes and say you'll be sure to help out by making us rely on YOU. You guys are about as competent as the current US government. I think we'd be better off without you at this point if you can't even come to a proper compromise. Taking away officers right and allowing all users in? I can't even begin to think about how many trolls and spam would just flood the boards at that point and were supposed to rely on you guys to help "police" that when you couldn't even come up to proper solutions that people have been asking for for years? No thank you. 

My vote is obvious. Unions stay or we go.

#155 Posted by The_Last_Ride (69630 posts) -
[QUOTE="michaelP4"]We're very quick to focus on the negative. Here's the positive: we managed to get GS to rethink its position regarding unions. That's quite significant. One thing that is certain is the unions feature itself will be gone. However, the communities - the most important part - will be preserved in some shape or form. Sure, you may not be able to control the board anymore, but honestly, the only powers you had were closing and sticking topics. How often did you do that? And yes, you can and should rely on mods to help you out - that's what we're here for. So don't be afraid to ask one of us to stick or close a topic. Chances are, one of us may even be a regular at your board, and will help keep it clean. As for positions within the communities: you can still have an informal organisation. Create a topic detailing who is what and does what - that should provide recognition. The leader and officer positions in reality only gave you a tag and the power to close/stick topics - they weren't that great really and were all for show. You can still achieve that same effect of organisation. At the end of the day, we have been victorious here. We got GS to rethink what its doing. Instead of no unions, we've got a guarantee that they will be continued as regular boards (which is really what unions are for the most part). GS aren't obligate to do that and have been quite generous to us for doing that. You no longer have to move off site to continue your communities - which is a lot harder than it sounds. How will you get new recruits? What will be the ToU? Who will keep the leader and officers in check - can you trust them with a huge amount of control and power? What about other features - GS will have an entire site load of features - will you be able to keep up? Moving off site sounds attractive at first, but when you get into the details, it's actually harder than you'd think. GS has taken care of the stuff I've listed and more. You will miss its supporting structure if you were to go off site. With what we have achieved, I don't think any community needs to leave GS now - but of course, it's entirely up to them.

i want to make it clear i am not against the new design or other features, but removing sections of a site that people like is wrong.
#156 Posted by The-Apostle (12141 posts) -

From what I understand Unions have been fighting for upgrades and better service for years now, but you guys at Gamespot have continually just ignored them and given them less support until you say youre going to be rid of them altogether, and now that there is an uproar, this is your solution? Perhaps if you guys had come up with a compromise when people were trying to compromise with you in the first place this mess would not have happened, and now you're trying to implement these quick fixes and say you'll be sure to help out by making us rely on YOU. You guys are about as competent as the current US government. I think we'd be better off without you at this point if you can't even come to a proper compromise. Taking away officers right and allowing all users in? I can't even begin to think about how many trolls and spam would just flood the boards at that point and were supposed to rely on you guys to help "police" that when you couldn't even come up to proper solutions that people have been asking for for years? No thank you. 

My vote is obvious. Unions stay or we go.

Dshenlong
Gotta go with this here. How many times does a board that doesn't get traffic from mods get hit with spam? I know the Sports board gets hit with it at LEAST once a week. How are leaders/officers supposed to kick out people they don't want (like trolls or spammers)? They can't. And I know for a fact that mods won't help in that category either. That's why they need control of their unions.
#157 Posted by siberian142 (7773 posts) -

Gamespot.com removes unions from the front page, and wonders why new people aren't using them.

SAVE THE UNIONS!

starduke

From what I understand Unions have been fighting for upgrades and better service for years now, but you guys at Gamespot have continually just ignored them and given them less support until you say youre going to be rid of them altogether, and now that there is an uproar, this is your solution? Perhaps if you guys had come up with a compromise when people were trying to compromise with you in the first place this mess would not have happened, and now you're trying to implement these quick fixes and say you'll be sure to help out by making us rely on YOU. You guys are about as competent as the current US government. I think we'd be better off without you at this point if you can't even come to a proper compromise. Taking away officers right and allowing all users in? I can't even begin to think about how many trolls and spam would just flood the boards at that point and were supposed to rely on you guys to help "police" that when you couldn't even come up to proper solutions that people have been asking for for years? No thank you. 

My vote is obvious. Unions stay or we go.

Dshenlong
Yep. The current state of unions is because GameSpot put no effort into keeping them updated when they switched to the wide layout. To add insult to injury, they made it extremely difficult for new users to find information regarding unions. They provided little to no support for unions these past years, they're only alive because certain unions have developed strong communities over the years.

Preserving these communities is the least they can do, but taking away what makes a union a union is a poor compromise.
#158 Posted by The-Apostle (12141 posts) -
[QUOTE="starduke"]

Gamespot.com removes unions from the front page, and wonders why new people aren't using them.

SAVE THE UNIONS!

siberian142

From what I understand Unions have been fighting for upgrades and better service for years now, but you guys at Gamespot have continually just ignored them and given them less support until you say youre going to be rid of them altogether, and now that there is an uproar, this is your solution? Perhaps if you guys had come up with a compromise when people were trying to compromise with you in the first place this mess would not have happened, and now you're trying to implement these quick fixes and say you'll be sure to help out by making us rely on YOU. You guys are about as competent as the current US government. I think we'd be better off without you at this point if you can't even come to a proper compromise. Taking away officers right and allowing all users in? I can't even begin to think about how many trolls and spam would just flood the boards at that point and were supposed to rely on you guys to help "police" that when you couldn't even come up to proper solutions that people have been asking for for years? No thank you. 

My vote is obvious. Unions stay or we go.

Dshenlong
Yep. The current state of unions is because GameSpot put no effort into keeping them updated when they switched to the wide layout. To add insult to injury, they made it extremely difficult for new users to find information regarding unions. They provided little to no support for unions these past years, they're only alive because certain unions have developed strong communities over the years.

Preserving these communities is the least they can do, but taking away what makes a union a union is a poor compromise.

Can anyone truly say they didn't see this coming?
#159 Posted by c_rakestraw (14579 posts) -

How many times does a board that doesn't get traffic from mods get hit with spam? I know the Sports board gets hit with it at LEAST once a week. How are leaders/officers supposed to kick out people they don't want (like trolls or spammers)? They can't. And I know for a fact that mods won't help in that category either. That's why they need control of their unions.The-Apostle

Well, if you guys would just report them for once...

You know why it takes so long for us to get some boards with spam? Because we're never told about them. Nearly everytime I hear people complaining endlessly about how we haven't been keeping up with the spam, it's because no one ever took the time to report spam in question or even PM one of us requesting help. If more people were to do that, we could keep the site clean pronto.

As for trolls, there is a little thing called a suspension. We have the tools. We can make this work for you guys, but have you have make some effort. It's not ideal, I know. But it's either this, or lose the boards entirely. Your choice.

#160 Posted by michaelP4 (16680 posts) -
Okay, will generally address the points put forward. Will start with Gallion-Beast: Community policing: unions have always been subjected ultimately to the ToU. They had the option to be exclusive but most remained inclusive of anyone who wanted to contribute. Troublesome users will still be dealt with just like they always have been. Unions were never really given the powers to properly deal with them - there was nothing you could really do apart from relying on the mods to deal with them, formally speaking. Informally, a PM or social pressure was the most that could be done to get bad users to fall in line - this usually works, with extra formal steps being able to be taken if necessary. Not only that, but there is usually a mod or two at the bigger unions that can help in this regard - so unions could form a partnership with this mod to help out in keeping the peace. 2. Unions own rules: true, but believe me, from experience, you will have to draw up clear lines and if/when necessary, enforce them. GS has always taken care of this - doing it in a more insular and personal level can make things trickier. Certainly easier to rely on an outside independent and non-personal force to do this and make non-biased judgements. 3. Yes - but in another site, they'll be able to go much further than that. Actual moderating, suspensions and bannings. I don't think every union officer and leader would have the skills, experience or intuition to make such calls sensibly. Of course, this would be something they'd need to sort out and keep control of, but this time you won't be able to blame GS if something goes wrong. 4. That and things like blogs, levels, events etc. Also, again, unions were never really given that much control - that's really an illusion. The mods and ultimately, the admins control things around here. gunslinger024: Yes, you make an excellent point. I too agree the news was delivered poorly. It focused on the negative rather than the positive. People are psychologically prone to loss - so talk of taking things away heightens their awareness and the self-defence system boots in. So they become anxious and panicky that their safe secure communities they've been in for so long are going to disappear and everything's going to go wrong. GS could have told us what they're adding and improving to cushion the loss and even arrived at this compromise so it wouldn't be all that bad - maybe even had a consultation process for users to put forward their views, so they feel they've been listened to. The compromise: of course this isn't the ideal situation. We want unions to stay; they want unions to go. Two opposite sides. Can't please everyone or reconcile completely, but the compromise we have now is honestly the best we're going to get if you want your community to continue on GS. Let's not forget this is the first time ever really GS has acknowledged its done wrong and is at least trying to do something. I'd like to reciprocate that generosity of spirit by at least trying to make things work in the new GS. Remember, without GS in the first place, there wouldn't be any unions at all - so I'm always mindful not to bite the hand that feeds you. So ultimately, it's up to the communities themselves on what way they want to go. One thing that's sure though is the unions feature will be going - nothing can stop that. What won't be going now is the communities - essentially what they are. This is a victory - we've won this battle. I'd be happy with what we have instead of pushing our luck - as I don't think GS really have anything else in store for us.
#161 Posted by Redders1989 (13410 posts) -

Currently our union is debating whether or not to stay here. From what I've been able to do research-wise, we seem to be the only Formula One specific union; and a rare case of a motorsports/cars kinda union (not been able to find many which focuses on cars/racing games in general - do say Hi by the way if I'm wrong!).

Naturally, our union does actually require frequent action with sticky threads/closing of threads (GP events, games etc.) and one of the sticking points is that, yes, while we accept that the leaders/officers thing will go, just so we know for certain our board would be run efficiently to what we're looking for is that just one of us (that's all) becomes a mod.

We'd rather not have to pester someone what could be quite a few times each week just to keep stickying/closing threads on our behalf when one of us would certainly be willing to do it there and then. To your argument of "we may already have a mod in our ranks", we did - I can recall at least two - but I haven't seen them on here in years, leading me to believe no active mods use our union (not the best advert, I admit, but...).

Anywhoo, long story short (just so we can make our mind up) - would just one person from our union be able to become a mod in order to sort through our forum in the future just so we're not consistently bugging someone who may not even have an interest in what we do?

#162 Posted by SavoyPrime (40915 posts) -
One of the reasons unions failed in the first place was because of GameSpot's lack of support. Hiding them away and making it hard to even find the kind of union a user would be interested in isn't going to help the union system work. And then the reason given for removing them is the lack of traffic. Really?! How is anything going to generate traffic if a) it isn't supported by the website and b) you make unions almost impossible to find. As some have stated, no thank you to the idea of having a board that we have no control over. I don't see how what GS is offering is a compromise. Just seems like a half-ass attempt to appease when it is really just a spit in the face to go along with the slap they gave us when it was first announced that unions were being kicked to the curb. I understand that every union might have not been active or successful. But there were some that were active and successful and gave a TRUE sense of community. And the way GameSpot just disrespected the users by making a soulless announcement about the system being killed off made things worse. Not sure who thought handling it the way it was handled was going to go over well. But then again, as long as y'all getting that ad revenue and traffic, I guess it's all good right?
#163 Posted by michaelP4 (16680 posts) -
Interesting insight Redders. While the appointment of mods is entirely up to the Community Manager, I don't think such a decision would be based on that criterion alone. However, as a user, I've always been passionate about unions - I like seeing them do well and growing. This is why I made this thread, and I'm very glad that at least something has been achieved in all my years of campaigning for unions since 2006. On closing/stickying topics in your union: I've had a look at your union and you have over 10 stickies. For me, stickies have always served the purpose of highlighting important threads. If you have too many, it kinda eliminates the point of them - like highlighting most of the text in a page, as then nothing is actually highlighted. So I think a reform on your end is possible. On our end: I can certainly promise to help out on closing/stickying topics. I'm sure something could be easily arranged, so I wouldn't make such a decision on that basis alone.
#164 Posted by killerfist (19807 posts) -
Let the unions and ucb's stay. They help to build better communities. One of my first posts on this site was in the Legend of Zelda Union, such a great place that once was..Oh the memmories :cry:
#165 Posted by leon2365 (13050 posts) -

i would love to see the unions remain here on gamespot. it is one of the main reasons i frequent this site. however, i also suggest that union members and owners discuss alternatives for your unions in the likely event of union liquidation. i know i will be contacting my unions and discussing alternatives. i suggest you do the same. just in case.

#166 Posted by the_plan_man (1546 posts) -
Save our unions.
#167 Posted by Gallion-Beast (35803 posts) -
[QUOTE="michaelP4"]Okay, will generally address the points put forward. Will start with Gallion-Beast: Community policing: unions have always been subjected ultimately to the ToU. They had the option to be exclusive but most remained inclusive of anyone who wanted to contribute. Troublesome users will still be dealt with just like they always have been. Unions were never really given the powers to properly deal with them - there was nothing you could really do apart from relying on the mods to deal with them, formally speaking. Informally, a PM or social pressure was the most that could be done to get bad users to fall in line - this usually works, with extra formal steps being able to be taken if necessary.

Leaders (and officers? I'm not sure) can eject users from the union (without changing settings to invite only). From the unions perspective, this is equivalent to a ban on any other forum. That people ejected from unions are not deprived of any other gamespot services is pretty irrelevant. At the RPG Temple, we have had cases in the past where new users couldn't respect other people's opinions and after being given a chance and appropriate social pressure weren't willing to change. And it's perfectly possible for such users to continue acting that way without openly breaking the TOS.
Not only that, but there is usually a mod or two at the bigger unions that can help in this regard - so unions could form a partnership with this mod to help out in keeping the peace.michaelP4
While I have on very rare occasions seen a mod post in a union, no union I've frequented in my 8 years of gamespotting has had an active mod. I'm sure there are unions with active mod members, but it doesn't address anything because they're still stuck rigidly to making decisions from the TOS and taking actions that effect the user across the entire site. Permabanning someone is obviously never going to be as easy as ejecting users from a union.
2. Unions own rules: true, but believe me, from experience, you will have to draw up clear lines and if/when necessary, enforce them. GS has always taken care of this - doing it in a more insular and personal level can make things trickier. Certainly easier to rely on an outside independent and non-personal force to do this and make non-biased judgements.michaelP4
You're in or you're out. When everyone's a group of friends, things are a lot simpler. it's the way we've been operating for years, and it works great.
3. Yes - but in another site, they'll be able to go much further than that. Actual moderating, suspensions and bannings. I don't think every union officer and leader would have the skills, experience or intuition to make such calls sensibly. Of course, this would be something they'd need to sort out and keep control of, but this time you won't be able to blame GS if something goes wrong.michaelP4
Moderations resulting in removal from forum: As mentioned above Unions have this, it just doesn't effect any other boards. Moderations resulting in suspension: Wildly unnecessary in a small community, if someone's bad enough to warrant a suspension, they're not welcome, and can be removed instead. Moderations with no penalty: Pointless
4. That and things like blogs, levels, events etc. Also, again, unions were never really given that much control - that's really an illusion. The mods and ultimately, the admins control things around here.michaelP4
Blogs are a decent feature, if not one I've looked at in years. Levels I wouldn't really call a feature, and certainly not one worth using the site for, they just exist and do nothing. Events I know literally nothing about, so i can't speak for anyone else in that regard. Mods are pretty much totally irrelevant to unions other than the fact that they could theoretically see TOS violations in boards they're rarely a part of. I haven't seen anyone doubting admins controlling things, destruction of communities is certainly control, yessiree. [QUOTE="michaelP4"]The compromise: of course this isn't the ideal situation. We want unions to stay; they want unions to go. Two opposite sides. Can't please everyone or reconcile completely, but the compromise we have now is honestly the best we're going to get if you want your community to continue on GS. Let's not forget this is the first time ever really GS has acknowledged its done wrong and is at least trying to do something. I'd like to reciprocate that generosity of spirit by at least trying to make things work in the new GS. Remember, without GS in the first place, there wouldn't be any unions at all - so I'm always mindful not to bite the hand that feeds you. So ultimately, it's up to the communities themselves on what way they want to go. One thing that's sure though is the unions feature will be going - nothing can stop that. What won't be going now is the communities - essentially what they are. This is a victory - we've won this battle. I'd be happy with what we have instead of pushing our luck - as I don't think GS really have anything else in store for us.

Well, when the hand that feeds stops feeding and starts become the hand that throttles, stating one's objections is at least rather justified.
#168 Posted by PumpkinBoogie (3366 posts) -

[QUOTE="The_Last_Ride"]They won't be unions anymore then...

mitu123

And you're okay with them just disappearing as a whole? At least fight to keep your board intact. The community you're a part of should matter more than the layout of the place that they gather to.

*Applauds*....THANK YOU, mitu123. I mean seriously....I can't believe the shit that's coming from some of you. Mind. Blown. :|

We're very quick to focus on the negative. Here's the positive: we managed to get GS to rethink its position regarding unions. That's quite significant. One thing that is certain is the unions feature itself will be gone. However, the communities - the most important part - will be preserved in some shape or form. Sure, you may not be able to control the board anymore, but honestly, the only powers you had were closing and sticking topics. How often did you do that? And yes, you can and should rely on mods to help you out - that's what we're here for. So don't be afraid to ask one of us to stick or close a topic. Chances are, one of us may even be a regular at your board, and will help keep it clean. As for positions within the communities: you can still have an informal organisation. Create a topic detailing who is what and does what - that should provide recognition. The leader and officer positions in reality only gave you a tag and the power to close/stick topics - they weren't that great really and were all for show. You can still achieve that same effect of organisation. At the end of the day, we have been victorious here. We got GS to rethink what its doing. Instead of no unions, we've got a guarantee that they will be continued as regular boards (which is really what unions are for the most part). GS aren't obligate to do that and have been quite generous to us for doing that. You no longer have to move off site to continue your communities - which is a lot harder than it sounds. How will you get new recruits? What will be the ToU? Who will keep the leader and officers in check - can you trust them with a huge amount of control and power? What about other features - GS will have an entire site load of features - will you be able to keep up? Moving off site sounds attractive at first, but when you get into the details, it's actually harder than you'd think. GS has taken care of the stuff I've listed and more. You will miss its supporting structure if you were to go off site. With what we have achieved, I don't think any community needs to leave GS now - but of course, it's entirely up to them.michaelP4

....and THIS adds the icing onto the cake of it all! Oh, and I might add some of y'all NEED to give a little better props & gratitude to michaelP4 here what he was able to spearhead and get accomplished for ALL (active) union communities, as a whole.

You know, it baffles my mind. People were pissed and frustrated when it seemed GS was going to toss the Unions out and voiced 'well why can't GS at least give something comparable on the new site!'; yet when details came out that they really DID hear our concerns and voices (a rarity in any since), some have the freakin' audacity to turn around and bemoan 'well if it's not the same as now I don't want it' or 'eew, but we've gotta become public forum??' (and those types of comments aren't exclusive to this thread, I've seen then peppered elsewhere).

Really?? So, some of you are so hung up on technically petty BS that much that you can't appreciate that they're actually, HONESTLY, trying to help make this change as painless as possible by offering to migrate over EVERY SINGLE thread, EVERY SINGLE post IN those threads--which really is the true 'core' of your union, next to the people that are involved and participate. And when it ALL boils down to it, as michaelP4 so eloquently pointed, THAT'S the shit that should really matter to you. Because like michaelP4 stated, they didn't HAVE TO do it. Hell, for that matter they didn't even have to LISTEN...but they did.

Is the perfect compromise? No, obliviously it's not; but it better than them not offering to anything. They've owned up to the fact that they should've done better w/ maintaining and updating the unions section and trying to work something out because of that. Take it if you want or whatever; but making knee-jerk statements complaining about what you're losing--control-wise, I guess--before you even know the final product, or what you might even gain from it, is premature and silly.

#169 Posted by siberian142 (7773 posts) -
People are allowed to voice their disappointment, PumpkinBoogie. While it is a good thing that the admins are doing something to preserve unions, they were still allowed to get to this state. Union communities persevered for quite a long time despite the increasing difficulty of managing a union so it is understandable that they would be upset that all their work might be undermined.

You're right that we do not know how this will work out, but the boards will likely be painfully limited. There is the possibility that leaders and officers will not be given basic moderation abilities on their boards and they will have to rely on unaffiliated moderators to do their work for them. Other features, like the leadership positions and basic customization (limiting who can join, kicking people, sending out union telegrams), won't make it over, either. Given that UCBs are also being removed, I can't see them adding in a variable that gives certain users basic moderation powers on certain boards and if they don't even have that, it is no wonder why leaders would be annoyed trading in their union for these boards, they'd have very little control over them.
#170 Posted by Redders1989 (13410 posts) -
On closing/stickying topics in your union: I've had a look at your union and you have over 10 stickies.michaelP4
In that regard, yes, I'm sure that were we to continue as a public forum there are things we're less likely to sticky (I can see at least six we don't necessarily need up there, a seventh is the one discussing the GS issue currently and two are only there for the weekend as we speak - so realistically we'd have 5 regular (at some points of the year it'd be 4), going up to 7 (6) on race weekends) - so I could easily see the compromise from our side (I say compromise, the overload is pretty much my fault!). We could easily cut down dramatically for the change if it means we could get someone on our side to mod (if we don't get that, cheers for the offer to help out by the way!). To be fair looking at our poll we have going it seems people want to stay on GS!
#171 Posted by michaelP4 (16680 posts) -
Gallion-Beast: Fair enough. Valid points. We differ on what's important about unions. Really, I can't think of what more to say. I think PumpkinBoogie and Redders have the right idea towards this. GS could have got rid of unions and that would be it. They haven't, and met us half way - in what I think is the best they can do. I believe we should reciprocate this generosity with trying to make things work - compromise. That does mean changing what we do and how we do it, yes, while fundamentally staying true to what we ultimately want and aspire to. Reality hits hard. If you don't roll with change, you'll be rolled over by it.
#172 Posted by The-Apostle (12141 posts) -
I'm still leaving when this hits. I can't tolerate the loss of unions/UCBs. I feel like we lost control of them. And to say we "never really had control of them in the first place" is a bold-faced lie. Anyone who says we didn't is nothing more than a liar.
#173 Posted by coylenintendo (13713 posts) -

this is horrible. a union that I've been a part of for like 6 or 7 years is a big part of the reason that I still come to Gamespot. while it's nice to be able to use this site for reading about video games news, updates, reviews, etc. unions have always been a part of this website during the 8 years that I've been a part of this website (okay maybe minus a year or two that I wasn't active on Gamespot) more than likely, I don't think I'll even bother visiting Gamespot anymore if unions are taken away. maybe the unions would have been more active and more people would have visited them if Gamespot actually took the time to address the problems with them and tried to improve them so more people would have at least checked it out. instead of at least trying, it looks like Gamespot just wants to throw it aside and focus on things that aren't even that big of a deal. after reading the whole "big changes" post, I don't see any good changes or anything that interesting. no need to make changes if it just hurts people. oh well. if unions are deleted then it looks like IGN will be my to go website for video games.

I'm officially signing in this topic to NOT get rid of unions and for Gamespot to actually attempt to make them better.

#174 Posted by ArmoredCore55 (23819 posts) -

If GS had the way to have some people donate money for GS, do you think it could help keep unions alive? Noteldnep has been talking to me about it today.

#175 Posted by SavoyPrime (40915 posts) -

Reality hits hard. If you don't roll with change, you'll be rolled over by it.michaelP4

This saying is only true when you don't have options. GameSpot is not the only gaming site on the internet and with free boards, unions can live on in other ways.

It's appreciated that you put forth the effort michaelP4. But you and others see this new development as us winning and GameSpot hearing us, while the rest of us don't see this as GS meeting us halfway at all and instead see this as GameSpot just doing this so those who are against unions dying will shutup. Everyone is going to have their own perspective of this situation. It is what it is. Some will stay, some will leave. Hopefully those who stay will be satisfied with the new system.

#176 Posted by Noteldnep (20165 posts) -

If GS had the way to have some people donate money for GS, do you think it could help keep unions alive? Noteldnep has been talking to me about it today.

ArmoredCore55
Yes, we have been talking about this when Armored asked me if GS would have money to keep unions if they hadn't gotten rid of the paid subscriptions. I told him I don't know about that, as I noticed less people signing up for that paid service.
#177 Posted by Ardain (463 posts) -

I WANT THE UNIONS TO STAY! please and thank you.

#178 Posted by The-Apostle (12141 posts) -
I do appreciate your effort, michaelp4, but their response was a knee-jerk reaction to try to appease us when they first announced they were getting rid of unions. It didn't work. The fact is, they should've thought things through. But they didn't. It was a crap compromise. A better one would've been to just let them stay as they are.
#179 Posted by AzelKosMos (34194 posts) -
I do appreciate your effort, michaelp4, but their response was a knee-jerk reaction to try to appease us when they first announced they were getting rid of unions. It didn't work. The fact is, they should've thought things through. But they didn't. It was a crap compromise. A better one would've been to just let them stay as they are.The-Apostle
I fully agree with this. To be honest community is all I come to GS for, I prefer Eurogamer for articles, reviews and news. I literally use GS to chat to friends and gamers, more in unions than the main boards. With them gone this site has nothing for me really.
#180 Posted by game-ster23 (17328 posts) -
I certainly would like for unions to stay on GameSpot. I've spent a great deal of time posting and getting to know great users through unions. Turning them into public forums is better then nothing, but that'll allow disrespectful people to flood the topics, arguing just because someone has a different opinion than you...
#181 Posted by Javinho (20463 posts) -

I honestly only post on unions 

#182 Posted by valereth85 (4683 posts) -

The unions are the only reason that I even come here

#183 Posted by DieselCat18 (2960 posts) -

I honestly only post on unions 

Javinho

The unions are the only reason that I even come here

valereth85

What does this say about what GS has to offer it's members ?.....nothing really. This site has gone so far downhill that it has to look up to see bottom. Really just so sad....:(

 

*+

#184 Posted by KenshinGirl (9454 posts) -
It's obvious GS stopped caring about unions long ago, and their recent actions confirm this. I've really only ever visited this site to post in the unions, so I won't be hanging around on the new site. Our union will survive though. It just won't be here.
#185 Posted by The-Apostle (12141 posts) -
All these posts are why I believe this Website is a sinking ship. :(
#186 Posted by ShadowsDemon (10124 posts) -
I left Game Trailers for this reason. Don't make me doing the same thing here.
#187 Posted by ArmoredCore55 (23819 posts) -
[QUOTE="ArmoredCore55"]

If GS had the way to have some people donate money for GS, do you think it could help keep unions alive? Noteldnep has been talking to me about it today.

Noteldnep
Yes, we have been talking about this when Armored asked me if GS would have money to keep unions if they hadn't gotten rid of the paid subscriptions. I told him I don't know about that, as I noticed less people signing up for that paid service.

The subscription thing ended months ago.
#188 Posted by JBL_Fan7 (665 posts) -

Please save the unions! I love them and always have ever since I have joined. Without them, I will retire. I rarely post on the main forums because I am afraid that I will be bashed for being gay. :(

#189 Posted by siberian142 (7773 posts) -
[QUOTE="ArmoredCore55"]

If GS had the way to have some people donate money for GS, do you think it could help keep unions alive? Noteldnep has been talking to me about it today.

Noteldnep
Yes, we have been talking about this when Armored asked me if GS would have money to keep unions if they hadn't gotten rid of the paid subscriptions. I told him I don't know about that, as I noticed less people signing up for that paid service.

Not a whole lot of people subscribed. If they did, that money likely went towards maintaining the more important aspects of the site.

As for donating, no. GameSpot doesn't deserve the communities money for a feature that they abandoned when they switched to the wide version.
#190 Posted by Sagem28 (10498 posts) -

Signed.

#191 Posted by Noteldnep (20165 posts) -
The subscription thing ended months ago.ArmoredCore55
I know it did. It ended at the end of January this year because hardly anyone signed up for it anymore, and GS said the service doesn't really offer users as much as it used to. Anyway, now that I think about it, I don't think a donation would work since unions weren't given much of a chance to begin with.
#192 Posted by DynV (256 posts) -

Please keep some unions! At least those with some level of activity.

If need be, make a new union rule that within a certain amount of time from creation or from overhaul (notify union leaders by PM) ; that a certain amount of liveliness has to be reached or will become archived or deleted.

#193 Posted by c_rakestraw (14579 posts) -

As for donating, no. GameSpot doesn't deserve the communities money for a feature that they abandoned when they switched to the wide version. siberian142

More accurately, there would probably be some legal hiccups preventing them from taking donations given they have the backing of a major corporation like CBSi. Hard to justify taking donations for a site feature given those circumstances.

#194 Posted by The_Last_Ride (69630 posts) -
I don't think they will do anything regarding unions. I think it's over. They didn't mention anything in the last fireside chat
#195 Posted by TwistedRKO2012 (154 posts) -
I think it's not a good idea to bin all the unions on GS. I use to use union quite a lot in my childhood and it holds fond memories...so i say NO to getting rid of unions. Oh and hi 'The_Last_Ride' long time lol
#196 Posted by sonictrainer (15184 posts) -

I don't think they will do anything regarding unions. I think it's over. They didn't mention anything in the last fireside chatThe_Last_Ride

When was the last one?

#197 Posted by lancelot200 (61977 posts) -
Good thing that our union went offsite last year. Now, I really have no need for Gamespot.
#198 Posted by The_Last_Ride (69630 posts) -

[QUOTE="The_Last_Ride"]I don't think they will do anything regarding unions. I think it's over. They didn't mention anything in the last fireside chatsonictrainer

When was the last one?

Last week, i believe it was wednsday or thursday if i am not mistaken
#199 Posted by DeadManRollin (4131 posts) -
Sometimes getting rid of the source for "quarter of a 1% of traffic" can cause the disappearance of a quarter of your active users. Data and statistics don't always give proper insight on a true nature of things. You should look in to the contributors of this small amount of users and dig down. How many of them are 10 year old users? How many of them have made most of their posts in the unions? How many of them only accesses the unions? How many of them didn't show up at all while unions were down for maintenance? Only then you can take the decision of shutting them down. I want unions to stay, please.
#200 Posted by Garfield360UK (19506 posts) -
Another solution to the issues regarding unions becoming public boards would perhaps to allow people the leader nominates to be moderators/administrators for that specific board so they can continue to moderate their own union board and also day to day tasks like changing sticky threads and the like. I am quite sad unions are going, but it does seem to have been a long time in the coming (lack of visibility, no updates for a long time bar the union levels coming back to life). I have made a few friends on this site based off unions and a close knit community, allowing unions to continue in a public forum at least gives us more of a chance to continue and gain more activity in members, but, a lot of control over the content is lost and also increases the work rate for current moderators, so I hope my suggestion is something that could be taken into consideration to solve issues for both parties here. However I am sure Gamespot can work this out and at least the unions will stick around in a forum form at least.