Has this game made you so mad before you just want to throw your system etc?

Sazh/Fang/Hope isn't the worst party for the fight, but it's not a good party either. Allow me to critique in depth:

You say that Fang can replace Vanille as your debuffer, but that's not really true. Vanille has Imperil; Fang does not. Since Barthandelus halves all elements, Imperil will double the rate that you increase the chain gauge. This is relevant both for staggering Barthandelus, and for post-stagger chaining. With Imperil, you can easily build the chain to over 700% while still having more than half of a stagger period to capitalize on that damage modifier with Commandos; without Imperil, you have to settle for either a lower chain multiplier or less Commando time.

A second problem with using Fang is her lack of Ravager. This means you can't use the most efficient chaining paradigm: Tri-disaster. You can use Smart Bomb, but since you have Fang under AI control, she'll stop casting as soon as she inflicts all the debuffs. This means you're forced to do a decent amount of chaining in Relentless Assault or Mystic Tower. This isn't terrible, but it's not ideal, especially during the second half of the fight where you're constantly racing against the regular buff/debuff resets from Apoptosis.

A third problem with the party lies in healing. One healer struggles to stay ahead of Barthandelus's damage output (even with Curaja, which Hope lacks) unless you maintain constant Shell (and ideally Protect too, since 2 of the heads use physical attacks). This is partly because it's easy for a single healer to get distracted into removing status effects while you drop below half health, which can leave you vulnerable to Thanatosian Laughter. But it's also because you're trying to keep up with ~1700 damage per round before reductions, and it takes quite a bit of reducing to get that down to reasonable levels.

With that in mind, consider also that Hope will prioritize Veil. This means you have to spend quite a bit of time--about 3 rounds--with Hope as a SYN after each Apoptosis to reestablish Shell. If Hope is being a Synergist, he's not being a Medic. Do you see the problem here? If you're comfortably overdeveloped for the fight, you can maybe get away with this, but I don't think that's true for DemonxPrincess (characters mostly in the 3000 HP range sounds like mid stage 8 to me).

Vanille brings RAV, she brings Imperil, and she brings a second (superior) Medic to the party. These contributions outweigh Fang's assets by a significant margin. Sazh/Vanille/Hope is the best (unassisted) lower-level party to bring in, especially if you teach Ruin to Hope. At mid to high levels, Sazh/Vanille/Lightning is the way to go.

Now, Fang is a strong COM, which can certainly be useful. She also has Slow, which is very nice, but weaker here than normal since the four faces (responsible for 1100 damage per round) are completely unaffected by it. So it's a great idea to use Fang if you can fit her in, but all optimal (unassisted) parties start with Sazh and Vanille, and Fang just doesn't round out the group as well as Hope or Lightning do.

Which brings me to your advice about "overbuffing" the party. I do agree that it's not worth spending a lot of time casting buffs in-between Apoptosis resets. I don't agree that it's a waste of time to buff up during the first half of the fight. I think you should absolutely get every buff going early on--and then you should dodge the first Apoptosis to preserve those buffs into the second half of the fight!

And since you can dodge Apoptosis (once), the most effective way to handle the fight is to use a Fortisol and an Aegisol to buff a party of Fang/Vanille/Lightning (thus all the "unassisted" qualifications above). For details on dodging Apoptosis, or on how to use these parties effectively, see my topic linked by destrian in post #4.

(incidentally, I absolutely agree that Veil rocks and that you should buy status curing items)

t~

I didn't do enough analysis to draw firm conclusions here, but I believe that Apoptosis isn't significantly affected by Slow, although Thanatosian Laughter might be.

The data I have shows Thanatosian Laughter occurring every 8th non-Apoptosis attack by Barthandelus. Without Slow, Barthandelus makes 8 attacks between each Apoptosis. With Slow, Barthandelus makes about 5-6 attacks between each Apoptosis. Both data sets have an aberrant early Apoptosis near the end of my tracking.

Therefore, I think Apoptosis is timer-based, while Thanatosian Laughter is #attacks based. But there's something going on that I can't explain, and I don't have enough data depth to be sure of anything.

t~

Yes, if you're developed enough to make significant inroads in the secondary roles, your good options for party configurations increase dramatically. I don't like to assume that level of development when I'm giving advice to someone who appears to be playing the game for the first time.

Sentinel can be quite nice against Thanatosian Laughter, but it's a minor benefit unless Fringeward kicks in. You either have to get lucky on a 1 in 3 chance, or anticipate early enough to Challenge Barthandelus before he initiates the attack. The benefit isn't all that great compared with the other factors in the fight.

What level of development are you used to here? I mean, you're talking about solid investments in multiple secondary roles, and you're blowing off the three rounds it takes to reestablish Shell after each Apoptosis as though it were nothing. I feel like you're used to fighting this encounter with max stage 8 primaries and then some, but that could easily be a mistaken impression.

t~

Hadien posted...

I usually unlock the first abilities for secondaries as soon as I'm able to in chapter 10. After that I wait till I get some specific abilitiies in the primarys, ignoring stat and technique node branches, before I start to develop on secondary role for each character. I usually make a beeline for the ATB upgrades, then Accessory upgrade.

I remember taking Daharka down in a with at least half of the first stagger remaining. This is also the playthrough that I brought down Proudclad I's HP so fast that I discovered that you CAN'T kill him (he becomes invicible) until after he uses that scripted "limiters deactivated" move (which healed only like 15% of its health and made me laugh).

Interesting. You ignore most of the stats offered within the primary roles, yet you're strong enough to kill Dahaka within half of a stagger, and you can kill The Proudclad (definitely first encounter, 2nd heals to full with Limiters Deactivated) in just over a stagger (most likely without using a full-ATB RAV skill).

This suggests to me that you've indulged in extensive stat boosting through weapon and/or accessory upgrades. And if that's the case, I'll accept that your Hope could manage as a single healer, since sufficiently boosting his Magic would make that realistic.

It also suggests to me that your play experience is not well-suited to offering advice to an average player during chapters 10-13. I don't think very many people open up the secondary abilities as early or aggressively as you do.

t~