CP Grind before Chapter 12?!
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Nov 21, 2012 12:41 pm GMT
tiornys posted...SAB skills are unnecessary for Sazh, and it honestly doesn't speed things up that much for him to have them. Don't use -strikes or Cold Blood; they're both unnecessary. A Fire-Thunder-Fira-Thunder string is pretty easy to input and executes significantly faster than alternating strikes. Repeating that string gets the chain well above 350% before Brynhildr leaves without any need for SAB skills.
t~
I don't know why you wouldn't get Imperil on him to improve the speed of chaining with either -strikes or spells. As for using spells... I can't attest to this as I've never tried it but that's probably true. Regardless, having Imperil up will speed things up and I'm pretty sure that requires getting Deprotect and Deshell for him so you might as well land one or the other on top of Imperil.
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"We running out of time!" Sigurd, Typogears
Nov 21, 2012 12:43 pm GMT
tiornys posted...Data gathered, calculations made.
With an optimized setup--Vanille and Fang at SAB level 4, Sazh at SAB level 1, Vanille and Fang with Improved Debuffing/Debilitation II (to expedite the infliction of all possible ailments), Vanille under Haste for the duration of the fight, and use of ATB refresh throughout the fight--Vanille can fire off 15 Deaths before Adamantoise gets back up. She can often--but not always--get off a 16th Death before it kills the party, but since the debuffs are gone this 16th Death is on a base 1% chance. It's better to simply retry the fight immediately after the 15th Death fails instead of waiting for the 16th Death, especially since waiting means you often die, which costs you quite a bit of time before you can initiate the retry.
Sazh has an Aurora Scarf and Sprint Shoes so he will Haste Vanille immediately. Spica Defenders are used to ensure that Haste lasts throughout the fight. Sprint Shoes are not used on Vanille because they would wear off before Hecatoncheir leaves. I gave Fang both Catalogs, plus a Champion's Badge to help recoup TP. I equipped Vanille with ATB +10% (2x Aurora Scarf), but there's actually no difference from normal ATB to ATB +15% in the number of Deaths she gets off. Vanille gets an Energy Belt in her last slot. If I had the Growth Egg, I'd have given it to Sazh.
Sab/Sab/Syn (default)
Sab/Sab/Sab
Sab/Sab/Sab
The first 6 Deaths have a base 4% chance, the 7th fluctuates depending on how fast Fang inflicts Slow/Curse/Daze, and the 8th-15th have a base 7% chance. It takes about 30 seconds to Summon (skip animation), inflict debuffs, and fire off the first Death. If that Death kills, the total time spent from overworld map to overworld map is ~44.2 seconds. Successive Deaths come out after 6.35 then 7.5 seconds alternating.
Each of the first 6 Deaths has a 5.32% chance to kill assuming Deprotect/Deshell/Imperil have been inflicted. For the 7th Death I assumed a base of 6%, yielding an 8.7% chance to kill assuming Infiltration. The 8th-15th Deaths have a 10.15% chance to kill. Overall, there's a 72.06% chance of killing Adamantoise in any given battle. The average time of a battle with a successful kill is 65.76 seconds. An unsuccessful battle takes 135.6 seconds to the resolution and failure of the 15th Death plus13 seconds to retry and initiate the next battle.
T = 65.76 + .2793 * (135.6 + 13 + T)
T = (65.76 + .2793 * (135.6 + 13)) / 0.7203 = 148.87 seconds
So my estimations turn out to be uncannily close to reality. Vanille expects to kill a turtle with Death in just under 2.5 minutes.
Incidentally, I stumbled across this vid: http://youtu.be/mXtrsC_OuQ0
which demonstrates a way for Sazh to complete mission 63 without needing weapon upgrades by exploiting the differences between Adamantoise and Adamantortoise. I'm certain the vid can be improved upon.
That means there's only one tempting turtle kill that must be done using either Death or Hyades Magnums-*. Death is the superior option for most players.
Example vid for optimized Summon/Death turtle killing: http://youtu.be/uHHQ6jftrP4
t~
If a coin comes up heads 19 times in a row, what are the odds of the coin coming up heads a 20th time? It's still a 50% chance. On average, your numbers may be correct, but there will still be those painfully frustrating times where Death refuses to land and that is why I hate relying on random chance.
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"We running out of time!" Sigurd, Typogears
Nov 21, 2012 12:54 pm GMT
alt_reality posted...If a coin comes up heads 19 times in a row, what are the odds of the coin coming up heads a 20th time? It's still a 50% chance. On average, your numbers may be correct, but there will still be those painfully frustrating times where Death refuses to land and that is why I hate relying on random chance.
There's a thing called the law of large numbers that states your results over a very long period of time should match the expected value. Certainly in the very short term you could experience rapidly different results (i.e., bursts of quick and easy Death kills or bursts of Death never working), but in the long run it should even out.
However, there is this thing called a PRNG that tends to mess with the law of large numbers.
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Divisibility by four? Ha! I mean, even perfect squares are divisible by four!
Currently playing: Final Fantasy XIII, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy.
Nov 21, 2012 1:49 pm GMT
Divisibility by four? Ha! I mean, even perfect squares are divisible by four!
lolwut?
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"We running out of time!" Sigurd, Typogears
Nov 21, 2012 2:31 pm GMT
If you have a perfect square that happens to be even, then it's a multiple of four. However, I was making a play on the "Property X? Everything has property X! I mean, even object Y has property X!" thing.
Congrats on being the first person to point it out!
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Divisibility by four? Ha! I mean, even perfect squares are divisible by four!
Currently playing: Final Fantasy XIII, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy.
Nov 21, 2012 2:35 pm GMT
It's nice theory, but I can't find too much validity in the calculations. Sorry, tiornys. We can talk probability all day but if we're comparing strategies over long time periods (which is the only relevant comparison since with only a few toise battles, Death is superior) we need to be taking potential RNG manipulation into account. Experimental probabilities over large data sets with different attempts at manipulation would be more telling.
Maybe Lady will see this and post what she has found. She has probably done more with Summon/Death than most anyone.
TheGaijin posted..."Make three Aurora Scarves, three Sprint Shoes, and at least one Morale Talisman. I'd also make a Blessed Talisman and buy a Warrior's Wristband. "
Hello,
What is the best way to make above-mentioned item?
On some guide they advise to do mission 7 for a drop but I did maybe 30 times and no drop so far... any advise on all those item the most efficiently?
Thank you
In case the answers you have received thus far don't fully answer your question, I recommend using the Item Location Guide on this website to find out what you need. It will tell you what piece of equipment you need to transform and what catalyst component transforms it (if applicable). You don't need to farm Mission 7 because you get two Tetradic Crowns and Hermes Sandals before completing Chapter 11 if you know where to find them (again, I would use the Item Location Guide for this).
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CWLSIV
Nov 21, 2012 2:46 pm GMT
I just got the "Growth Egg" off of Neouchu. Took about 10 tries. What is the other monster similar to Neochu on the other side of the pasture? Also why do you guys suggest I stop at mission 34?
Nov 21, 2012 3:04 pm GMT
That's an Ochu. Go ahead and fight it. It's a decent challenge but you should be able to win without need to pull any lame tricks. If you didn't already get the treasure sphere you can always grab it and sell the Bangle inside. You've got too many good accessories to need so many Platinum Bangles.
After Mission 34 is Titan's Trials. You won't find the early missions too difficult (except maybe Mission 36) but the later fights can get round at Stage 9. Go for it if you are looking to challenge yourself. Otherwise, I would more on with the story after the first 34 and do the Trials first thing in postgame.
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CWLSIV
Nov 21, 2012 3:07 pm GMT
julzrulz145 posted...I just got the "Growth Egg" off of Neouchu. Took about 10 tries. What is the other monster similar to Neochu on the other side of the pasture? Also why do you guys suggest I stop at mission 34?
You'll have two extra stages of crystarium after beating the final boss. If you were able to survive mission 52, you can safely complete the rest of the main game no problem. You CAN do everything there is to do now if you really want but you get a substantial amount of growth between now and then, but there's no reason to.
With the Growth Egg, you'll get roughly a million CP from Chapters 12 and 13 (or at least I think that's how it worked for me.) That's a nice dent in maxing out crystariums but it won't quite get it there. Still, do the rest of the game first and THEN tackle the other missions. Unless you really want a challenge.
Did you get the Sazh method to work? If so, feel free to grind as much as you want now because you're going to do it eventually... though Fang turtle killing is a lot easier and you can do it repeatedly without recharging your TP.
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"We running out of time!" Sigurd, Typogears
Nov 21, 2012 3:09 pm GMT
LewdDolphin21 posted...If you have a perfect square that happens to be even, then it's a multiple of four. However, I was making a play on the "Property X? Everything has property X! I mean, even object Y has property X!" thing.
Congrats on being the first person to point it out!
I found that to be entertaining since 9 is the first perfect square after 4 and it is definitely not divisible by 4. Math can be used theoretically but it can also be used for absolute truths... that statement is definitely not one.
(I used to be a math major
)
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"We running out of time!" Sigurd, Typogears
Nov 21, 2012 4:17 pm GMT
destrian522 posted...That's an Ochu. Go ahead and fight it. It's a decent challenge but you should be able to win without need to pull any lame tricks. If you didn't already get the treasure sphere you can always grab it and sell the Bangle inside. You've got too many good accessories to need so many Platinum Bangles.
After Mission 34 is Titan's Trials. You won't find the early missions too difficult (except maybe Mission 36) but the later fights can get round at Stage 9. Go for it if you are looking to challenge yourself. Otherwise, I would more on with the story after the first 34 and do the Trials first thing in postgame.
Alright thanks.
Nov 21, 2012 4:20 pm GMT
alt_reality posted...LewdDolphin21 posted...
If you have a perfect square that happens to be even, then it's a multiple of four. However, I was making a play on the "Property X? Everything has property X! I mean, even object Y has property X!" thing.
Congrats on being the first person to point it out!
I found that to be entertaining since 9 is the first perfect square after 4 and it is definitely not divisible by 4. Math can be used theoretically but it can also be used for absolute truths... that statement is definitely not one.
(I used to be a math major )
Alright, I'm currently looking for Mission 30 right now. I haven't fought any turtles as of yet. I'm guessing you guys suggest I turtle farm to get final weapons & accessories for my characters now? Is that correct? All this post game talk is confusing because after I beat this game I will move onto FF13-2.
Nov 21, 2012 4:22 pm GMT
I don't think mission 30 requires turtle farming... well none of them require turtle farming since everything has been beaten at stage 8 or stage 9 or something around that... but for the average player, you SHOULD be able to do that.
Remind me what mission 30 is and I might be able to help?
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"We running out of time!" Sigurd, Typogears
Nov 21, 2012 4:29 pm GMT
I definitely don't suggest you turtle farm right now. The Mission 30 stone is up near where you fought Neochu. You have to go down the path to the end. If you aren't planning on going for trophies (notably Treasure Hunter) then I suggest you avoid grinding altogether. It is unnecessary.
To find the mark, head to Sulyya Springs and ride Atomos back into the mines. This will open up a new area for you to explore.
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CWLSIV
Nov 21, 2012 4:48 pm GMT
destrian522 posted...I definitely don't suggest you turtle farm right now. The Mission 30 stone is up near where you fought Neochu. You have to go down the path to the end. If you aren't planning on going for trophies (notably Treasure Hunter) then I suggest you avoid grinding altogether. It is unnecessary.
To find the mark, head to Sulyya Springs and ride Atomos back into the mines. This will open up a new area for you to explore.
Really? Anyone who gets the Growth Egg in Chapter 11 NEEDS that platinum. It is their purple heart.... their mark of valor... their gold star for this game. (Sorry if those earlier terms offend army vets... I don't know what those things actually are....)
You're fine to run around where you're running around if you took out Neochu and you understand that the game can kick your ass at any point because you aren't fully developed just like a 12 year old girl with half a breast. Do what you want to do. Back off when you want to back off. It has all been done before with much less so you can figure it out if you want or power up and come back later if you want.
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"We running out of time!" Sigurd, Typogears
Nov 21, 2012 7:04 pm GMT
alt_reality posted...I don't think mission 30 requires turtle farming... well none of them require turtle farming since everything has been beaten at stage 8 or stage 9 or something around that... but for the average player, you SHOULD be able to do that.
Remind me what mission 30 is and I might be able to help?
Yeah Cieth stone for Mission 30 is next to the pasture.
Nov 21, 2012 7:04 pm GMT
destrian522 posted...I definitely don't suggest you turtle farm right now. The Mission 30 stone is up near where you fought Neochu. You have to go down the path to the end. If you aren't planning on going for trophies (notably Treasure Hunter) then I suggest you avoid grinding altogether. It is unnecessary.
To find the mark, head to Sulyya Springs and ride Atomos back into the mines. This will open up a new area for you to explore.
Thank you
Nov 21, 2012 7:06 pm GMT
alt_reality posted...destrian522 posted...
I definitely don't suggest you turtle farm right now. The Mission 30 stone is up near where you fought Neochu. You have to go down the path to the end. If you aren't planning on going for trophies (notably Treasure Hunter) then I suggest you avoid grinding altogether. It is unnecessary.
To find the mark, head to Sulyya Springs and ride Atomos back into the mines. This will open up a new area for you to explore.
Really? Anyone who gets the Growth Egg in Chapter 11 NEEDS that platinum. It is their purple heart.... their mark of valor... their gold star for this game. (Sorry if those earlier terms offend army vets... I don't know what those things actually are....)
You're fine to run around where you're running around if you took out Neochu and you understand that the game can kick your ass at any point because you aren't fully developed just like a 12 year old girl with half a breast. Do what you want to do. Back off when you want to back off. It has all been done before with much less so you can figure it out if you want or power up and come back later if you want.
Hahaha alright cool. Ima start working on the characters other roles
Nov 21, 2012 8:36 pm GMT
Beating Neochu for the Growth Egg requires almost no work or skill. Getting Platinum is a significantly greater commitment. They aren't comparable, honestly. I'd recommend that any player get the Growth Egg but Platinum is something that you have to want to get (mostly because of the grinding aspect).
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CWLSIV
Nov 21, 2012 9:26 pm GMT
destrian522 posted...Beating Neochu for the Growth Egg requires almost no work or skill. Getting Platinum is a significantly greater commitment. They aren't comparable, honestly. I'd recommend that any player get the Growth Egg but Platinum is something that you have to want to get (mostly because of the grinding aspect).
Oh alright. What is the point of Post game? After I finish this game I am going to pick up FF13-2. When should I get Final weapons and ultimate accessories for my party?
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