California Adventure theory

#1 Posted by Mcbasilrocks (91 posts) -

I found this piece of concept art: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7oizlJN641r9q4gno1_500.png

It can be seen in the 'Brief History of Oswald' trailer for EM2. What's odd is that this scene NEVER APPEARS IN THE GAME. Let's whittle it down:

Could it be Mean Street? No, because there are too many green plants around.

Therefore, one may assume that it is Ventureland. But no, because it is too bright, and Ventureland looks nothing like that at all.

It's clearly not Bog Easy or OsTown either. That doesn't even need mentioning.

So again, we can assume that the game was cut. I can't deny it. But this screenshot, I feel, warrants deeper inspection.

I have a theory. We all know that Wasteland is a decrepit version of Disneyland Park. In EM2, you were originally going to be able to visit the Wasteland version of California Adventure, the other CA Disney park. Of course, it was planned for the first game, as an area called WasteCot, as DCA's original name was WestCot, ie the Western version of the Epcot park in Disney World. You probably think I'm mad, but let's look at this a bit:

- The area greatly resembles Buena Vista Street, the opening area of DCA. Note the tram tracks on the floor to the left, which bear a striking resemblance to the Red Car trams you can ride there.

- Buena Vista Street has lots of green plants and palm trees, so that would explain their presence in the picture.

- Look where Oswald sitting. He is sat on a pile of suitcases, near the tramtracks. In DCA, there is a statue of Mickey standing on suitcases, near the tramtracks. It can be seen here: http://www.originald.com/matt/updates/2012-09-12/DCA/Large/IMG_0251.jpg

Here's a slightly more comprehensive image of the real scene I'm talking about: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disney-358752-street-walt.html

Thoughts?

#2 Posted by Mcbasilrocks (91 posts) -

And while we're on the topic of revealing concept art, I made a pretty big find that may actually be proof enough to take this further. Video game website Fenton recently published a slideshow of 17 Epic Mickey 2 concept art pieces. The first one can be found here: http://fentondesigns.com/?attachment_id=343

Next to none of them appear in the actual game.

From there, just keep pressing the 'next' button in the bottom right. Let's analyse each concept art piece:-

1. OK, this was never in the game, ever. I assume that it's meant to show the Mad Doctor meeting Prescott for the first time, but we never see it ingame. Definitely a cut-out plot element that needed to be there to make the overall story better.

2. Granted, this scene was in the game, but compare this drawing and the actual game. Loads of differences.

3. Now this is getting ridiculous. We NEVER FIGHT THE MAD DOCTOR ON MEAN STREET. And look - he's bursting up from under the ground. Does this show that we'd have had to battle him in the Mean Street Underground first, or at least chase him? Sure looks like it.

4. These are clearly computer drawings to show the game makers how to model the Alice in Wonderland area. This would hold with Spector's early statement that there'd be a Wonderland area. Instead, all we got was a rubbish Floatyard section. And those weird playing cards don't appear.

5. These are alright - they're in the game. That's all well and good.

6. Same here - this is in the game.

7. Now THIS is where it gets interesting. People are always fussing about the turnstile in OsTown and the Epilogue. Well, I think this one page proves everything we've ever said to be correct. This warrants further inspection:-

-Top-left picture: This area is in the game, but it's a lot smaller than in the picture.

- Top-right picture: Same as above.

- EVERY SINGLE OTHER PICTURE ON THE PAGE: Not in the game. Look - there's robotic Pluto heads, Chip n' Dale heads, the works. Do we get them? No. This was probably going to be the Epilogue area. I feel so enraged right now. Thoughts on this one in particular?

Pictures 8-10: These are OK. These scenes are all in the game.

Pictures 11-17: Here we have some scrapped Blotworx, and boy are there a lot of them. I kinda like the Roger Rabbit one on Picture 12 - wish they'd have left that in. Anyway, this clearly shows that the Blotworx were going to play a bigger role, but were downplayed to just being an irregular enemy at the last minute. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this one too.

So, general thoughts overall? I think this is a pretty big revelation, personally. 

#3 Posted by katydiddd (314 posts) -

So, now  the Mcbasilrocks and others have the name of a reputable Disney employee, who actually worked on EM2.  Why don't you write to him, and ask him why he put in   TWO  sets of transportation tubes under OsTown, why they are active with their lights on, and where they were supposed to transport Mickey to?

http://fentondesigns.com/?attachment_id=351

Published January 30, 2013

...and, gently, have him change the word

"they're" to "their" when he writes about their third child in his biography, and

"were" to "where" when he writes about where he creates, and

"studios" to "studio's internal and external, etc.

- - - - -

The Fenton "ABOUT" page is

http://fentondesigns.com/?page_id=73

and says:

ADAM FENTON / CONCEPT DESIGNER

Adam currently leads the concept art team at Disney Interactives -- Junction Point Studios were he creates various concepts and Illustrations for the studios internal and external needs.  He has 10 years of experience creating AAA console, XBL/PSN downloadable, family friendly MMO and Casual video games.  He has worked for several major developers most recently completed work on Disneys Epic Mickey 2.  He has helped develop various titles for Disney, Activision/Blizzard, THQ, Zynga, Incinerator Studios, Upper Deck and Buzztime.

Adam currently lives in Austin, Texas with his wife and 2 kids.  They are expecting they're third child soon!

#4 Posted by Mcbasilrocks (91 posts) -
OK, so I got in touch with Mr. Fenton via my private email, and he responded with the following two things: 1) Another piece of concept art: http://dribbble.com/shots/924004-Dribbble-Special-Epic-Mickey-2/attachments/102610 These were going to be the Mad Doctor's original plans, by the look of it. 2) And this message, which I quote: 'Thank you for your enquiry. Now that Junction Point is down, yes, it probably is the right time to tell all. In the beginning, when I was first hired at Junction Point, Epic Mickey 2 was being kept relatively secret. Several ideas were thrown around, but the plot point that was finally settled on was my idea for the earthquakes and the Blotworx. As such, I designed the various Blotworx images you see here, most of which were rejected. In the original, we were going to have a much bigger, emotional plotline. Pete was going to have been helping out the Mad Doctor, acting as a spy on Mickey and Oswald. The Blotworx were going to be a result of a failed experiment by the Mad Doctor, and there was going to be this huge thing about the Mad Doctor siding with you halfway through to help stop them. As for Prescott, as my concept art shows, he was going to play a bigger role (I think one early script actually had him falling to his death!). About my attached concept art: http://dribbble.com/shots/924004-Dribbble-Special-Epic-Mickey-2/attachments/102610 The Mad Doctor's original plans were to be thus: he would perform his musical number in the beginning. However, the weird Tiki thing he pops out of would have been what caused the earthquakes, as my concept art shows. Forget all the stuff about a TV show, I can tell you truthfully that that was a 'creative decision' on the part of Warren Spector once he realised that we couldn't finish the game in time. I remember this huge hullabaloo when he announced that - it was crazy. Concept art redesigns, voice re-recordings, it was one messy operation by the end, and that's why, and I can say this now that I've been sacked, the game is the sloppy, nonsensical mess that it is. As for the Epilogue, that was actually a coding mistake, made by Junction Point's programming department. It wasn't until we were mass-producing that we found that turnstile text in the coding, but by that point it was too late. So yeah, I can honestly tell you that you were gypped out of what really looked like it was turning out to be an epic adventure. I hope this answers your questions. Regards, Adam' Well... I think we've just made a breakthrough.
#5 Posted by katydiddd (314 posts) -

1)  I am dumbstruck that he would be so honest.

2)  You called it all !!!

3)  Download as many of his pages that you can, in case Disney forces them off the internet.

4)  I read that he lives in Austin, Texas -- but doesn't he write British to you?

5)  As to the content -- I am still digesting it !!!  All I can say this early in the morning is WOW !!!  You did it !!!

6)  And thanks.  I spent all those hours on the turnstile Epilogue:  Work together to open a way forward.   And, now you have absolute proof that it and other sections were hastily truncated, because they ran out of time, to get it out for the holidays.  And, all the inconsistencies and nonsense you wrote about.  I'm babbling.  Thanks.

#6 Posted by katydiddd (314 posts) -

I think you should make an entirely New Topic about the email exchange -- about Disney admitting game was truncated, AND they had mistakenly left in the "Epilogue:  Work together to use the turnstile and open the way forward."

Disney knew about the problem, while the game was being manugactured -- way before it was ever sold. 

My problem is that they did not properly notify customers about the Epilogue message.  How dare they have a message that there is more to the game, and if I were smart enough and looked long enough, I could find it !!!

They could have put the notice about the Epilogue in many pages and advertisements.  It could have been part of their referral to other forums, or a notation in the little walkthrough they came out with. 

1)  I worked for hours on it.

2)  I went to the site in the booklet that came with the game, which sent me to "videogames.com" and "gamefaqs.com"  (videogames.com does not exist).

3)  When I couldn't find an answer, I "joined" and posted my question.

4)  Several people posted their uneventful searches.

5)  As allowed on the Disney site, I  wrote them my question about getting blue water / paint in the OsTown fountain.  I got received an email saying to go to videogames.com and gamefaqs.com., but I waited for a real reply.

6)  Two weeks later I received a survey, asking how they had done.

7)  For well over a month I kept looking in every inch of the game, trying to find more.

Anyway, as I said:

I think you should make an entirely New Topic about the email exchange -- about Disney admitting game was truncated, AND they had mistakenly left in the "Epilogue:  Work together to use the turnstile and open the way forward."