Damn I forgot how amazing DMC3 was
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Jan 21, 2013 9:19 am GMT
It's probably been about 5 years since I touched DMC3. I never even got to play SE. So glad this collection came out because DMC3 is seriously one of the best action games ever made. If not the best. So yea, just an appreciation thread. Such a solid game.
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=oyA8odjCzZ4#Jan 27, 2013 6:30 pm GMT
I agree. Actually, after 6 years of not playing, I'm appreciating it a lot more, and getting a lot better at it. When I first got the game, I was 15 and couldn't even beat Cerberus on normal. Now I'm getting S combos left and right.
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Jan 27, 2013 8:39 pm GMT
Yeah, too bad its not as good as DMC1 though.
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balls
Jan 27, 2013 10:36 pm GMT
Jan 27, 2013 10:58 pm GMT
From: Sasukefire | #004Duwstai posted...
Yeah, too bad its not as good as DMC1 though.
Too bad DMC1 hasn't aged as well as DMC3.
Youre right, its aged better.
Because while the combat of DMC3 has been surpassed by multiple games (the only thing it really has going for it), the atmosphere, enemy designs, bossfights, weapons, art style, music and level design in DMC1 have yet to be surpassed in an action game.
Checkmate.
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balls
Jan 28, 2013 10:26 am GMT
Duwstai posted...From: Sasukefire | #004
Duwstai posted...
Yeah, too bad its not as good as DMC1 though.
Too bad DMC1 hasn't aged as well as DMC3.
Youre right, its aged better.
Because while the combat of DMC3 has been surpassed by multiple games (the only thing it really has going for it), the atmosphere, enemy designs, bossfights, weapons, art style, music and level design in DMC1 have yet to be surpassed in an action game.
Checkmate.
Lords of Shadow?
Feb 10, 2013 8:41 am GMT
devak108 posted...It's probably been about 5 years since I touched DMC3. I never even got to play SE. So glad this collection came out because DMC3 is seriously one of the best action games ever made. If not the best. So yea, just an appreciation thread. Such a solid game.
Oh, hi, Devak!
I'm starting to get bored with BL2 and I just picked up the HD collection for $16.00. Nostalgia's certainly a good thing, eh?
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Feb 10, 2013 1:06 pm GMT
Duwstai posted...Because while the combat of DMC3 has been surpassed by multiple games (the only thing it really has going for it), the atmosphere, enemy designs, bossfights, weapons, art style, music and level design in DMC1 have yet to be surpassed in an action game.
Checkmate.
Unfortunately the combat is
THE main purpose of DMC games. Most people do not play hack and slash games for enemy designs, art style, atmosphere...
I love DMC 1 to death but I won't be blinded by nostalgia and I can honestly say DMC 3 is the better game.
Feb 11, 2013 2:22 am GMT
nostalgia lol
and yes, level design, enemy AI and attack patterns, enemy placement, mission pacing, boss fights, weapon balance, all of which are either flat-out terrible or unremarkable in DMC3, are important in this genre, especially in this series where there tends to be many breaks in the action, i won't even bother mentioning DMC3's awful music, backtracking, ugly art style, complete lack of atmosphere, and the fact that anything EXCEPT DMD Mode is a joke in terms of difficulty
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Feb 11, 2013 7:24 pm GMT
Youre right, its aged better.
Because while the combat of DMC3 has been surpassed by multiple games (the only thing it really has going for it), the atmosphere, enemy designs, bossfights, weapons, art style, music and level design in DMC1 have yet to be surpassed in an action game.
Citing a random list of game elements unsupported by any actual reasoning, along with some imaginary games you won't list, isn't an argument.
and yes, level design, enemy AI and attack patterns, enemy placement, mission pacing, boss fights, weapon balance, all of which are either flat-out terrible or unremarkable in DMC3, are important in this genre, especially in this series where there tends to be many breaks in the action, i won't even bother mentioning DMC3's awful music, backtracking, ugly art style, complete lack of atmosphere, and the fact that anything EXCEPT DMD Mode is a joke in terms of difficulty
Then we've got this guy who is either flat out lying (DMC3's lower difficulties are more challenging than DMC1's) or simply ignorant of reality (all of the games have backtracking, and DMC3 isn't the worst one by a mile).
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Feb 12, 2013 7:06 pm GMT
Lol people actually think DMC1 is better than 3 now? Wtf is next? those same people are going to say 2 is da best in like 5 years.
It's like saying Pokemon R/B/Y are superior. F****** take off the glasses and get bent.
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Feb 13, 2013 4:12 am GMT
i'll cut dmc3 some slack, i at least got good enough at the game to trivialize most of it even years after not playing it, i was never "good" at dmc1, i did have more trouble with dmc3 dmd than dmc1 dmd tho
dmc4 has the worst backtracking, i'd say dmc1 has the least worst, it's not horrible in dmc3 but i'd place it between the two
those are just two complaints anyway, minor ones at that, if dmc3 were the hardest 3d beat em up ever with no backtracking at all, i'd still consider it unremarkable outside of the weapons/attacks and maybe a few bosses
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Feb 13, 2013 7:37 am GMT
Replaying DMC1 is like replaying Castlevania SotN or Megaman. You're after the whole experience. You don't play it for the combat alone. I'd say that nostalgia is a factor too. Despite being a better put-together game overall compared to DMC3, in action game standards though it's already an old relic. Besides, let's face it, assuming equal restrictions on what stuff you can use, it has lower skill requirements/ceiling compared to DMC3/4 when it comes to beating/being a bawse at the game, partly due to being such a concise game when it comes to the tools it gives you and the scenarios is throws at you. Once you beat DMD once each with Alastor and Ifrit, that's it (aside from sadist runs like Force Edge/E&I only, etc.).
DMC3 on the other hand, for all its flaws (stupid enemy design, tankish enemy HP, bad enemy DT mechanics, terrible lull in the third quarter), is an 8-year-old game which still holds up admirably compared to its successors DMC4 and Bayonetta. You can even see the DMC3-ish Itsuno magic juice transplanted onto DmC. I don't replay it from start to end like I do with DMC1, but I pick some select awesome scenarios, like Mission 2, Mission 3, Mission 12, crystal skull room, Mission 18 boss rush, or Mission 20.
A large part of what makes DMC3 great is the number of options it gives you. It's not applicable if you want to take the most efficient route possible at all times (Quicksilver/Kalina Ann/Spiral) like how DMC1 demands you with its "a specific tool for every situation" mantra, but for everyone else the options are great to faff around with.
I'd put it at this - DMC1 is an excellently put-together game (the best in this regard among all DMCs) that's a must-have in your library, one that you play from start to finish every year or so. For the experience and the nostalgia.
DMC3 on the other hand, is among the holy quaternity of action games (along with Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden Black, and Ninja Gaiden 2) to which every subsequent action game will be measured against.
I'd give it to DMC3, by a hair.
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Feb 14, 2013 2:41 pm GMT
To me, the biggest difference between the two is that DMC1 is a more strategic form of combat, while DMC3 is a more creative form.
With such a limited arsenal in the first game paired with generally deeper enemies, the focus point becomes dealing with those enemies and exploiting their weaknesses.
In DMC3, you're got a much bigger arsenal of weapons, paired with a much wider array of moves and abilities, paired with relatively simple enemies. Here, the focus shifts more to the enemies having to deal with you.
Both fun in their own way, but DMC1's design allows it to be more cohesive, while DMC3's design gives it a much higher ceiling.
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Feb 15, 2013 5:12 pm GMT
the most efficient route possible at all times (Quicksilver/Kalina Ann/Spiral)
What makes you say Quicksilver is the most efficient Style, instead of RG? QS is generally inefficient for groups of Hells, completely hit or miss against bosses, and the bosses it is good for can usually be beaten down harder with Royalguard. In terms of damage, on the ground a regular DTE is as efficient as QS against a single target, and it doesn't grant extra attacks like SM/GS. It's got utility, but for single target damage dealing it's only better than a DTE for jump cancellable attacks (never better for groups as far as I know). RG builds the resource QS consumes.
DMC3 on the other hand, is among the holy quaternity of action games (along with Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden Black, and Ninja Gaiden 2) to which every subsequent action game will be measured against.
No God Hand love?
Feb 15, 2013 8:16 pm GMT
From: Lord illogical hawk | #015To me, the biggest difference between the two is that DMC1 is a more strategic form of combat, while DMC3 is a more creative form.
With such a limited arsenal in the first game paired with generally deeper enemies, the focus point becomes dealing with those enemies and exploiting their weaknesses.
In DMC3, you're got a much bigger arsenal of weapons, paired with a much wider array of moves and abilities, paired with relatively simple enemies. Here, the focus shifts more to the enemies having to deal with you.
Both fun in their own way, but DMC1's design allows it to be more cohesive, while DMC3's design gives it a much higher ceiling.
Yeah, that's a pretty good synopsis; I completely agree.
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Feb 15, 2013 11:41 pm GMT
SBK91 posted...the most efficient route possible at all times (Quicksilver/Kalina Ann/Spiral)
What makes you say Quicksilver is the most efficient Style, instead of RG? QS is generally inefficient for groups of Hells, completely hit or miss against bosses, and the bosses it is good for can usually be beaten down harder with Royalguard. In terms of damage, on the ground a regular DTE is as efficient as QS against a single target, and it doesn't grant extra attacks like SM/GS. It's got utility, but for single target damage dealing it's only better than a DTE for jump cancellable attacks (never better for groups as far as I know). RG builds the resource QS consumes.
lol don't mind the example. I agree generally.
I just meant to illustrate that you can go 'stylin' (such as rolling with Trickster/Rebellion/Cerberus/E&I/Shotgun in DMD, high safety but bottom-tier DPS, thus higher skill requirement to not get hit and get a low clear time). And that you can do the opposite, which is to go safe and efficient with your boomsticks RG/Spiral/KA cancelling, Twister juggling, QS/TS safety.
SBK91 posted...DMC3 on the other hand, is among the holy quaternity of action games (along with Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden Black, and Ninja Gaiden 2) to which every subsequent action game will be measured against.
No God Hand love?
Just "averaging out" opinions, where popularity is also a measure. Mikami games always sufficiently advance the genre. It's just they often turn out to be niche games. The "big 4" just has the better combination of visibility and being genre-defining, that's all.
For what it's worth the points of comparison for Max Anarchy are GH and Power Stone. So there is GH love after all.
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Feb 16, 2013 6:08 am GMT
Why isn't DMC2 loved? The combat isn't as bad as fanboys claim and if you sit down to learn DT freeform you'll see this.
2's combat was about knowing when to lockon, when to DT swap to alter combos and when to tap the stick
And yes it IS pure fanboy hate that DMC2 gets. It wasn't DMC1 therefore it was bad?
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#1 Cactus
Feb 16, 2013 7:44 pm GMT
EX_Bortthog posted...Why isn't DMC2 loved?
Overpowered guns
Zero weapon variety
Dull, barren environments
Wonky enemy physics
The combat isn't as bad as fanboys claim and if you sit down to learn DT freeform you'll see this.
2's combat was about knowing when to lockon, when to DT swap to alter combos and when to tap the stick
Nope. It was about standing as far away as you can and spamming guns. As OP as the guns are in DMC2, it's more effective than what you suggested.
And yes it IS pure fanboy hate that DMC2 gets. It wasn't DMC1 therefore it was bad?
No, it's not. DMC2 even started as a new IP and was shoehorned into a DMC game about 60% into development.
Also, every time you attacked an enemy in DMC1, the hits feel impactful and you feel like you're honestly hurting them. The screen actually shakes to demonstrate that. DMC2 has none of that. The closest thing that DMC2 has to impactful attacks is the Desperation DT hyperbeam, and even then Ifrit's charged PPKK combo beats it.
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