Am I the only one who doesn't like Shifter?

short answer: yes

long answer: I like stealth in DX, but it was quite pointless. Now thanks to this awesome mod, I have an actual purpose for stealth gameplay, just like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
Not only that, this mod really removes the sucks out of the original game. It's so cool I can't even play the original, unmodded game anymore... even though I love it

Delta123456789 posted...

The new skill system does slightly undermine your freedom to choose your approach (rewards will influence you) but you can always disable that.

Sure you can. OR, you can simply do whatever the hell you want without caring for rewards! Because you know, if you wish to shoot enemies with the GEP gun, it's very unlikely you will get any "headshot" or "stealth" bonus.

It always struck me the fact that ppl complain for things ADDED in the games.. like the ones who claim "i don't put cheats in my FAQs" because I think I will go to hell for this".... what are you talking about??? Just put those damn cheat codes, and then I will decide if I want to use them or not!!! If I WANT cheats badly, I will find them elsewhere and you guide will only be "incomplete", not "pure and holy"... what is this, "gaming ethic contest" or something?

Likewise, if you don't like a new feature, then IGNORE IT! Is it so hard not-doing something?
So, in the end, it's clearly FALSE your statement that "the new skill system undermine your freedom to choose your approach"... no it doesn't.
If so, then HOW?

"oh, because you don't get any skill reward for doing stuff!"

Yes but... wait a minute, isn't it JUST what you wanted? Seriously I don't understant, maybe I'm dumb I don't know...

"rewards will inflience you"

No it doesnt, you can do like I did in DE: HR and play in whichever way the HELL you want, getting less XP and stuff, and then make many new gameplay to get pacifist, stealth achievement etc.
It's YOUR choice, not the game's

I find this quite silly. I mean, this month I began another (3rd) playthrough of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I'm trying to get the stealth achievement (foxiest of the hounds or something), BUT I'm not making any effort to maximize XP, nor to get cash (in fact I spend all the money on praxis points and weapon mods when I find them, but never buy anything else).

Also, I like to kill people with the "lethal melee takedown" (or whatever it's called, the move where you kill ppl with blades), and that's DESPISE the fact that a) it makes A LOT more noise than the non-lethal version, so it's actually awful for stealth purposes b) it gives less XP c) non-lethal takedown is overall better, takes the same bioenergy but is extremely silent and gives more XP

I just don't CARE for the fact that it doesnt' fit my objectives, it's just like using the Xbow instead of the stealth pistol in DX: it's not "better", but it's more fun.

So I think that everyone can make up his own limitation, even better if he decides them before starting a new game: "i will play so, so and so".

What's the point in deactivating headshot XP bonus? don't make headshots, and there you go...

oh, and in case someone's wondering: yes, DX is STILL better than HR, but it's not THAT bad as some ppl concerns about. It's even better than Deus Ex 2...

Delta123456789 posted...
I'm not too bothered by the issue, but I hope you'll agree that it would be better if the game rewarded all kinds of approach equally, unrealistic as that may be.

Oh well, I know a way to get around this issue... using cheat codes to "award" myself, but I guess you would not consider this one, do you? Anyway, I seriously appreciate the option to customize my gaming experience through use of cheat codes (not on the first playthrough, obviously: rather only when I get accustomed, and thus a little "bored", to the game)

DX pretty much did that by not giving points for skill at all, so you can see why people would like it and not be keen on a change of approach.
I'm not saying it would influence everyone, but better to influence no-one. I think you are also erring in assuming all players will have a fixed idea how they want to play a character and wouldn't be persuaded to do something differently by the promise of new toys. There will always be people who look at a decision and think "which would get me more points" instead of or in addition to simply thinking "what would my character do" (e.g. "which choice gets me more paragon points in Mass Effect, giving me more dialogue options later?"

Yeah, of course it would influence people. In fact, the first 2 gameplays in DE, I was franctically searching all the "insertion paths" in missions, just for the sake of maximizing XP bonuses - because THAT was my designed objective. I was spending more time on finding all the "exploration bonus" paths and exploring the whole game levels, than that spent on actual missions...

But that still doesn't change my point, in fact I don't do it anymore because I just don't CARE anymore about XP bonuses. It's always my decision, and also it's fully revertible through the use of cheat codes...
Of course it would be more convenient if the game calculates automatically the XP bonus based off my actions within gameplay, but the fact that it doesn't, is not a good reason to consider my experience ruined. Just think about it, when DX went out there were no achievements in games, but did that refrained people from doing amazing "because I can" stuff? Of course not, and that's just the way in which gamers invented pacifist runs, ghost runs and all that stuff, that ONLY NOW with DE:HR became "official".

p.s. sorry for my english, and feel free to correct me so I can learn from my mistakes, lol

well, you know what I meant. Maybe "ruins it" is way too far, but I don't think that it "impairs" the gaming experience, or makes it "lame" somehow, you know.

I didn't like the fact that in Human Revolution, stealth/pacifist gaming style racks up WAY more XP than plain, classic headshotting. Especially since I'm not able to make headshots with the controller (I have it on PS3...) so I end up firing blindly from corners, taking lucky shots.
But I still like to make "all big guns" playthrough, and I don't feel "unfunny" the fact that I am practically never able of getting headshots with the Heavy Rifle, and thus getting very few XPs. Yes, I end up with much less augmentations unlocked (kinda like half, compared to a "standard" stealth gameplay) but that's all I need, really.

The games who allows for so much freedom of action and gamestyle choice, are so few that I consider this xp distribution issues irrelevant, while I consider terrible the fact that even famous games like Half Life are extremely linear, since I find linearity to be extremely lame and unfunny, basically killing replayability and RPG-ness. Personal tastes I guess, but Warren Spector declared Half Life to be "the best game on rails ever". For me, it's like saying "the best of the worst kind of games".

So in the end this type of games should be encouraged, so that software houses decide to make more games of that kind. According to my opinion, whining on minor design issues will end up in software houses making more "game on rails", like there isn't enough of them.
simply put, it's best to have the option of getting XPs for sneaking or headshotting or whatever, than not having the option of doing these actions AT ALL. The fact that these options rack up more or less XPs is irrelevant, and for me it can even be skipped for the sake of gameplay freedom, just like in the original DX. But it's still a nice, "why not?" bonus for mods. And I read somewhere that in Biomod it can be deactivated, so it's even more irrelevant.

About my english, I pretty much learned it from these internet boards if you can believe that. Moreso than from english grammar books lol.

Delta123456789 posted...

None of us are saying the game is bad, just that it could be better. And I very much doubt any developers will make design decisions based on ancient message boards.

ever heard of Law of Attraction?

In any case it would go too far to say "we want more of this game so we shouldn't ever mention its faults". If anything we need to hold games to higher standards, so developers can't get away with making mediocre derivative stuff.

that's exactly my point

Linearity may not be ideal but it's fine for some games, such as more action-focussed ones. Not every game has to be a multi-approach sandbox (though I agree it would be nice if more games implemented these choices better).

not every game has to be a linear game, but in modern videogame market, that's a matter of fact.

If you are annoyed at how stealth is rewarded more than skilled shooting then you are feeling pretty much the same way I do about Shifter rewarding shooting more than stealth.

I do, but I don't complain about it, I don't think it a bad design and I pretty much don't care and enjoy the game anyway, "as it is".
oh, and Shifter do reward stealth... in the last mission (versalife 2, iirc: the last one in HK, prior to returning to Hell's Kitchen) I get 998 skill points for stealth, counted. Obviously I gone "total ghost" and killed no one but as you can guess, potential XP bonuses in Shifter are pretty hefty and that's awesome, since the vanilla game was quite stingy on XP bonuses

If you are into shooters I would recommend looking into playing on PC. Mouse and keyboard makes things so much easier when aiming. PC gaming also has great services supporting it like steam, so it has a lot of advantages if you can push past the initial cost hurdle.

oh yeah, I know... I know very well. How can one POSSIBLY aim with a PS3 controller, is beyond me. But my PC is old and can't take the burden of fancy modern gaming graphics.