Are Invaders Too Gimped?

Obviously invaders should not be able to invade a host on equal terms. That would be terrible. But, being an invader and invading often, I must ask if invaders are being too gimped.

Let's examine it from a Darkwraith perspective:

Assuming I'm the first invader, I know for a fact I will more than likely have no other phantoms helping me. Unless the host uses the dried finger, I will be alone for 10 minutes. The host, however, more than likely already has two buddies with him, and can summon them if he doesn't already. Not only that, but he can resummon any phantoms that I kill. On top of that, the host is likely to be a much higher level than me (depending on where I am), as well as his phantoms. The only back-up I get is from any mobs still alive, but they are very rarely useful.

Let's look at positioning. The host will know exactly where I am the very instant he sees the message pop-up on his screen, as well as his phantoms. I will be completely oblivious to his position, as well as whether or not he has help. I'm completely blind, and they know everything. This can be used their advantage to either high-tail it to the fog gate, or to jump me with their phantoms as I'm spawning.

Let's look at healing. This is one of the worst parts. Humanity and healing are available to all, but they are relatively risky to use. The thing that makes healing completely unfair is estus. I can't use my estus, but the host can rapidly chug his estus to heal the entire party and undo the hard work I put into wittling down the party's health. The host can even heal his phantoms in the middle of what would have otherwise been a fatal critical attack. I can display all the skill in the world, back-stab and parry these people all over Lordran, and then all that work is instantly undone when the host retreats to chug some estus. If you can't one-shot someone, then good luck killing anyone.

Here are my proposed fixes:

Darkwraiths: Have scaling health/defenses/damage based upon both ranking within the covenant and how many phantoms the host has summoned. I haven't worked out any numbers, so feel free to contribute to this part. Similar to how the bosses receive a buff based on how many phantoms the host has summoned, darkwraiths should get a buff based on how many phantoms there are when we invade. Perhaps some extra health and a minor increase to damage and defense? To account for the summoning of phantoms after invading, perhaps a health/spell refill? Just some ideas to make it more balanced.

White/grey phantoms: Exactly how they are now, except they are unaffected by estus. Neutral other players summoned to help out. No buffs or nerfs, and no health restoration from host's estus. Would encourage people to get into covenants.

Subros: These guys would be affected by estus, HOWEVER. . . they are a PvE covenant. They should gain buffs in damage and defense against mobs and bosses. On the flip side, they should also have reduced attack power and defenses against invaders. They are not a PvP covenant. This would make them not wanted for ganking, but coveted for actual jolly co-op.

New Covenant: This should be a covenant similar to the sunbros, except a PvP oriented covenant. This would be pretty strict due to what I'm about to propose being abusable. They would not be affected by host's estus. They would also get reduced effectiveness against mobs and bosses. However, they will also get increased defense/attack against invaders, probably similar to the invader's buffs, except without the health increase. They can also get a health/spell refill after an invader gets killed if they retrieve the remaining power of the invader instead of the host. To counter the covenant being too powerful for ganking, they can only be summoned one at a time. No other friendly phantoms would be allowed with them. They would also act as passive dried fingers and allow constant invasions to allow the possibility of 2v2.

So, what do you guys think? I believe these changes would make the PvP in this game more enjoyable, and more fair overall.

Oh, and more notes on estus. To compensate for it not affecting the other phantoms, its healing effect should be buffed. However, it shouldn't affect a phantom who is in an animation that they can't otherwise be affected in. For example, if they are knocked down and can't be hurt, they shouldn't be able to be healed. And a host shouldn't be able to save a phantom who managed to put himself into the position of a fatal back-stab. If he's already in the animation, he's done for.

So, NOW what do you guys think? I thought about this for a while, and I think everything is as fair as can be.It would add diversity to the game, and diversity is always fun. I'm always open to constructive criticism and ideas. Let me know and be completely honest.

Lodiss posted...

I say invaders have the advantage.

Healing is easier for the invader. Yes estus heals phantoms, but the host runs out of estus in three backstabs or so and then is completely vulnerable, should they spam it to save a phantom.

Meanwhile the invader has up to 99 humanity and has the mobs to hide behind while he uses them at will. A host chugging estus is wide open for a backstab, assuming the invader is minimally competent.

How? The invader is a lower level (generally), alone other than near worthless AI, and fighting three people.

You say that a host using estus is completely open, but then say that invaders are free to use humanity. Do you realize how hypocritical that is? Especially considering humanity takes a LOT longer to use. The mobs aren't much of a challenge to a decent player.

I can tell you probably don't invade much. It's hard being an invader, and by all means it should be. But sometimes, it's just ridiculous.

Number4Rocket posted...

You know what else is "unfair"?

When you're trying to get through your goddamn playthrough and have already been spell exhausted from the enemies you've killed, and an invader comes in fresh and happy.

If you think it's "unfair" to an invader, go be the biggest douche you can and abuse the enemies as much as possible.
Then somebody will come in here and whine about how invaders are too OP due to that.

Then I will use what seems to be the number one response around here. "Get good".

Honestly, if you're really trying to get through an area, you rarely have to fight at all. If you don't want to fight an invader, you don't have to.