Is this really a good game?

#1 Posted by Seremoth67 (24 posts) -

To clarify some things, i'm an rpg fanatic and have been playing rpgs etc since a long time ago in both PC and SNES. Some of my favorites were ultima, the baldur's gate, daggerfall, terranigma and ofcourse planescape torment. I also like difficult games, i play almost every game on max difficulty or add mods to enhance it.

 

I got Dark Souls, applied the dsfix and launched it. Didn't like the character creation very much but i don't pay much heed in these things. But later, when i got into the game, i was stunned at how glitchy the controls/animations/character/terrain really were.

 

I am NOT talking about the game not being keyboard optimised. I am talking about how drinking an estus flask freezes your character for 3-4 full seconds while being hit or threatened by horrendous demons, how a little rock can make your character get stuck and not be able to keep walking, how the character freezes to cast a spell which a slow rotting corpse can avoid by just walking, how a skeleton bumps on to you and makes your one foot hover at the edge of a cliff and when you try to move you slide down the cliff, how your character and the rolls he is doing feel stiff altogether, how you can kill the second boss with just rolling on him and not taking a single point of damage.

 

As for the rest of the game - nice atmosphere, interesting leveling system, mediocre animations, average model art - BUT i didn't get too far in the game to have a solid opinion of it so i can't tell anything for sure.

 

And i can't help but wonder - are glitchy controls the kind of difficulty people are talking about in this game?

Is it considered good because console players don't get to play good rpgs and think the world of it (e.g. dark alliance)? 

Don't get me wrong, i mean no offence but is it really worth my while?

#2 Posted by Cobra5 (1949 posts) -
Don't heal while vulnerable, avoid obstacles while fighting, don't stand near cliffs, don't cast spells while the enemy can dodge, etc... Knowing the terrain and the battle system is part of it. It sounds to me you are more interested in passive RPGs, like final fantasy and so forth, so this might not be your type of game. It has a very different style of gameplay and it does kind of expect you are willing to learn how to play, rather then trying to teach you.
#9 Posted by Seremoth67 (24 posts) -

Passive rpgs? Final fantasy? Have you played any rpg on pc? The rpgs i mentioned - do you know them? Also similar "non-passive" -as you say- rpgs like gothic (not 4), risen, darksiders 2, all the elder scrolls series and even ultima (decade+ ago) had much better feel and control of the character and felt less glitchy.

Now about your suggestions, i was talking about obstacles which the character should have been able to go through, and i mentioned slow rotting corpses easily avoided spells by taking a *slow* step towards my general direction because my character "casts like a retard Sorry, i had to say it. As for the cliffs even in decade old games (hell even in real life) you don't slide like that and you are not that stiff so that you can't stop the movement you had ordered 2 seconds ago. Also forgot to mention that he can't even hit enemies near a wall without hitting the wall and be knocked back as well /facepalm. The character feels like a stiff corpse (maybe because he is?) in its controls and animations compared to every other open world "non-passive" game i played.

Also if i wanted to be picky i would also mention the funny (poor) model selection in character creation (but i don't mind this) and the terrible voice acting of the 3-4 npcs i've met so far (maybe it gets better?).

The things you say mate only reinforce my opinion of what i said in the line before the last in my post.

#11 Posted by q-bert39 (137 posts) -

Now about your suggestions, i was talking about obstacles which the character should have been able to go through, and i mentioned slow rotting corpses easily avoided spells by taking a *slow* step towards my general direction because my character "casts like a retard Sorry, i had to say it. As for the cliffs even in decade old games (hell even in real life) you don't slide like that and you are not that stiff so that you can't stop the movement you had ordered 2 seconds ago. Also forgot to mention that he can't even hit enemies near a wall without hitting the wall and be knocked back as well /facepalm. The character feels like a stiff corpse (maybe because he is?) in its controls and animations compared to every other open world "non-passive" game i played.

 

Also if i wanted to be picky i would also mention the funny (poor) model selection in character creation (but i don't mind this) and the terrible voice acting of the 3-4 npcs i've met so far (maybe it gets better?).

 

The things you say mate only reinforce my opinion of what i said in the line before the last in my post.

Seremoth67

Most of what you are talking about is simply due to console coding limitations and or realistic developer constraints (they cant all be "open world"). Yes the slip'n'slide terrain can get especially annoying at times, but you wont encounter it too much. The casting is the way it is because if it wasnt it would be insanely overpowered (esp in pvp). The control scheme can be a bit "laggy" but really it is more of a que system, and is mostly for your benefit (helps you react faster and chain attacks better). The reason why your weapons are being deflected when they hit walls is because weapons dont go through walls, and they try to be as realistic as possible with combat. Certain weapons attack in certain ways; this is intended, and allows for a lot of different strategies and templates (ie a rapier vs a halberd, fighting in corridors or open spaces, etc). I find character animations to actually be rather fluid, and i find the combat to be among the best i've ever experienced. Dark souls offers what i would say is actually the most freedom in combat that you could hope for.

About the seemingly nonexistant story, NPCs, etc, well yes its intended, and no, its not just lazyness, you just have to read between the lines a bit and make connections for yourself (though it is still a bit too vague at times). I found the character voices to be exceptionally well done and they do an excellent job immersing you in the world of dark souls.

From what you talk about ultima, baldurs gate, etc, it seems like you'd more enjoy a challenging oldschool RPG like dark souls. But then from the rest of your post it seems like you'd rather just go back to skyrim. Confusing.

 

#12 Posted by q-bert39 (137 posts) -

Sorry i have to double post man. The animations are FAR from stiff, what i said was an understatement. They are probably some of the most fluid i've seen in recent games. Just had to get that off my chest.

#13 Posted by Seremoth67 (24 posts) -

Combat is good indeed - i don't like being able to spam attack and kill the opponent. The characters so far have made a bad impression on me - for example that guy after the asylum - "ring two bells of awakening one there and one there" speaking in a creepy-like voice. But it's not right to judge a game that early. I'll take your word and give it a try. Thanks for the input.

#14 Posted by williebazerka (305 posts) -
I'm new to Dark Souls too.The first time I was hit while drinking fom the Estus I just thought it meant you have to do it not so close to the enemies or you would be hit.If you want to always hit the enemy even when near walls use the targeting system and you will hit them.Just make sue you unlock from the targeting system since it will lock onto the next enemy.If you were talking about the boss on the bridge I sort of got caught between him and the stairs and was able to beat him pretty easy without getting hit and it felt kind of cheap.I don't know if I just happened to end up in a perfect position.Yeah the game doesn't have the best graphics but I didn't really care about that.And I've fallen of cliffs but didn't notice anything about the foot hovering like you said.I really like the game and it's alot of un so maybe I'm not noticing any problems.
#15 Posted by vicariousk (4 posts) -
I think if you gave Dark Souls a little more time it'd grow on you. The combat is a queue system, so make every button press deliberate or you'll suffer the consequences. There is a "correct" time to heal, and many enemies are programmed to do a specific attack if you heal at the "wrong" time. Try backing up and putting a static (non-moving) piece of the world between you and your foe for safe healing. I personally enjoy the voice acting very much, as you'll soon learn that there isn't a single person in the world of Dark Souls that isn't insane or going insane. Hollowing, I think they call it. Unfortunately, the terrain is something you have to learn, I probably died more from falls than anything else. As far as the little bits of land you can't walk over, if you hold your dash and press your dash again at the right time, you'll do a short jump that does the trick on stuff like that and small gaps. Oh, and you beat the second boss without getting hit you said? I think you're doing it right.
#16 Posted by LookAnDrolL (2483 posts) -

To clarify some things, i'm an rpg fanatic and have been playing rpgs etc since a long time ago in both PC and SNES. Some of my favorites were ultima, the baldur's gate, daggerfall, terranigma and ofcourse planescape torment. I also like difficult games, i play almost every game on max difficulty or add mods to enhance it.

 

I got Dark Souls, applied the dsfix and launched it. Didn't like the character creation very much but i don't pay much heed in these things. But later, when i got into the game, i was stunned at how glitchy the controls/animations/character/terrain really were.

 

I am NOT talking about the game not being keyboard optimised. I am talking about how drinking an estus flask freezes your character for 3-4 full seconds while being hit or threatened by horrendous demons, how a little rock can make your character get stuck and not be able to keep walking, how the character freezes to cast a spell which a slow rotting corpse can avoid by just walking, how a skeleton bumps on to you and makes your one foot hover at the edge of a cliff and when you try to move you slide down the cliff, how your character and the rolls he is doing feel stiff altogether, how you can kill the second boss with just rolling on him and not taking a single point of damage.

 

As for the rest of the game - nice atmosphere, interesting leveling system, mediocre animations, average model art - BUT i didn't get too far in the game to have a solid opinion of it so i can't tell anything for sure.

 

And i can't help but wonder - are glitchy controls the kind of difficulty people are talking about in this game?

Is it considered good because console players don't get to play good rpgs and think the world of it (e.g. dark alliance)? 

Don't get me wrong, i mean no offence but is it really worth my while?

Seremoth67

Man the **** up Best game I've played in years, man up or die, is that simple

#17 Posted by Droogie_1 (183 posts) -

Combat is good indeed - i don't like being able to spam attack and kill the opponent. The characters so far have made a bad impression on me - for example that guy after the asylum - "ring two bells of awakening one there and one there" speaking in a creepy-like voice. But it's not right to judge a game that early. I'll take your word and give it a try. Thanks for the input.

Seremoth67

 

yeah, i didn't like the blue guy either...so i killed him.

 

a lot of what you're complaining about are intended game mechanics.  once you get used to them i think you'll find that dark souls is an amazing game.

#18 Posted by waseemred (47 posts) -
very bad game , don't waste your time on boring games ....
#19 Posted by Gankstar_VX84 (32 posts) -

it sounds like the PC version is terrible. I mean the console version had a few bugs and stuff here and there, but if you don't absolutely love it immediately, you either don't like this type of rpg AT ALL, or the pc version is utterly terrible.

oh and just so you know. consoles get all the decent rpgs, pc just has those old skool crappy ones :P i do like planescape torment though, bought it recently.

#20 Posted by 2bitSmOkEy (2713 posts) -

This game is incredible, you just need to keep playing, it will click. Not that it means much but, some of my favorite rpgs are baldurs gate 1/2, planescape torment, system shock 2, kotor, etc etc the list could go on and on and on.

Edit: You NEED a gamepad and also the dsfix.

#21 Posted by Lyrebon (942 posts) -

Dark Souls is not a game for everyone though. It requires patience, and alacrity of mind to conquer. It's unforgiving and boundless purely to challenge you, and to reward perseverance. Not many games are of the same difficulty like this any more. I struggle today to find truly challenging games (Ninja Gaiden satisfied that for awhile) so when Demon's Souls hit the shelves I was blown back.

The plot being minimalistic was intentional. At some point you meet another serpent who tells you a different recollection of the past than Frampt does. At this point you have to look at the gods in a different light. Then of course there's Anor Londo, with most of it being an illusion. The game forces you to question your faith in characters and the truth. In the end your decision is ambiguous whatever option you chose. There is no morally good or bad option, only the one you concluded to be subjectively good and bad for yourself. That, I think, was a brilliant idea.

Everything about Dark Souls is fantastic. The environment, the art, the music, all build this incredible and yet forlorn land that has surrendered to madness and decay, that is now the home of death and suffering immortal. You kill without question only to reflect on why you had to. Was that giant wolf really a demon? Or was he just as desperate to survive as the rest of Lordran's denizens? And you killed him. Or Priscilla; tyrant of her own world, or just looking for solitude and peace?

I challenge any developer to evoke the same feelings in me that DS has.

#22 Posted by WillyChong (201 posts) -

Hell yeah, Dark Souls PTDE is the best thing out in PC, controls on keyboard and mouse become easy when I applied the DsFix with keyboard texture for display and practice to get use to it, the only thing I still not use to is the shield block and parrying, which kinda awkward use of key, especially walking is involve. This game is open, yeah its not a super wide open world but everywhere is accessible and can return to farm or practice, that's a open world RPG, no need to be super large map, I mean Dark Souls is major in solid fighting, and challenging gameplay. The lore of the game is vague at its best, but in the Artorias of the Abyss edition, i see a stronger connection of Artorias, Sif and Alvina and the world of Londran, basically by the time you came, Londran is already a state of damnation, after Artorias was fallen.

The Character have few dialogs, but their armor and tone reflect rchly on their personality.What I like about this game is how much unknown and conspriacy was involve yet never explained, and allow me to imagine what was is like in Londran, there is no strong background connection between Dark Souls and Demon Souls, barring the few resemble reccuring characters. Its a game you create your own story, rather than a story create for you. 

Its a blessing that Dark Souls was on PC, the only thing makes me sad its that mine is a GFWL game, which sucks in connection and service in Malaysia compared to Steam! I want Steam version, but it is not avaiable in my region, damnmit!

#23 Posted by WillyChong (201 posts) -

[QUOTE="Seremoth67"]

Combat is good indeed - i don't like being able to spam attack and kill the opponent. The characters so far have made a bad impression on me - for example that guy after the asylum - "ring two bells of awakening one there and one there" speaking in a creepy-like voice. But it's not right to judge a game that early. I'll take your word and give it a try. Thanks for the input.

Droogie_1

 

yeah, i didn't like the blue guy either...so i killed him.

 

a lot of what you're complaining about are intended game mechanics.  once you get used to them i think you'll find that dark souls is an amazing game.

 

Dude, yo just killed the only guy in this world that can repent your sin, or you really mind sin at all. Wish I was invaded cause I saw an invader make hand gesture to his victim before a duel, and pointing downward after he kills his victim.

#24 Posted by VGjunkie87 (64 posts) -

After reading your first two posts it seems you weren't aware of the ability to target/lock-on to enemies, if not then you couldn't be more wrong in the majority of your posts.  Compared to the likes of Skyrim, Dark Souls' combat is many times better both in control/realism and fun factor.  I hope you've come to the realization of these facts.

#25 Posted by Melocotones (16 posts) -

The plot being minimalistic was intentional. At some point you meet another serpent who tells you a different recollection of the past than Frampt does. At this point you have to look at the gods in a different light. Then of course there's Anor Londo, with most of it being an illusion. The game forces you to question your faith in characters and the truth. In the end your decision is ambiguous whatever option you chose. There is no morally good or bad option, only the one you concluded to be subjectively good and bad for yourself. That, I think, was a brilliant idea.

Lyrebon

 

A lot of people don't understand that a lot of the game is told by piecing together descriptions on the hundreds of items you find.  Pretty much every character and location has a huge backstory to it, but most people don't bother reading item descriptions so they don't see any of that and assume the game has no plot.

#26 Posted by tjns03 (1 posts) -
I can deal with glitches, bugs, etc forever. This game was made for die hard RPG fans. I could stat grind forever, and you almost HAVE too to make it 3 feet. Patch it and play it bro. It's a classic
#27 Posted by jeffdee107 (7 posts) -

I hated this game for the first few hours.  Now I love it.  Learning the system and controls was part of the rewarding experience.  It's actually great to see a game that takes skill and patience rather than just brutt force, or simply lower the games settings.  I can see how it's annoying though; but, anyway, I find it engrossing and different than most other games availabe these days..

#28 Posted by csadhoo (1462 posts) -

learning the enemie's attack patterns is essential...especially the bosses. i personally found it easier to fight some bosses without locking onto them. its a lot of studying and analyzing the enemies and making sure you are upgrading your character properly. sometimes straying off and exploring is essential in finding better gear, souls, etc. im on my first run through of this game right now and I am loving every moment of this. I do with the summoning mechanics were fixed. I keep having summonings fail on me.