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Looks another Castlevania game with lots of silence instead of music

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shadestreet

Nov 4, 2012 9:07 pm GMT
I am worried this game is going to have a soundtrack like Lords of Shadow - one filled with long sections of silence. Those trailers are making me nervous... can't believe how badly the dropped the ball on the music in LoS...assumed this would right that wrong.
Shad0wDance

Nov 4, 2012 9:10 pm GMT
Not sure what people want from the soundtrack...it's not an enclosed space metroidvania that should be accompanied by constant jingles. If the atmosphere calls for something more minimalist they shouldn't divert from it just for nostalgia's sake.
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Yami_Sasha

Nov 4, 2012 10:03 pm GMT
From: Shad0wDance | #002
Not sure what people want from the soundtrack...it's not an enclosed space metroidvania that should be accompanied by constant jingles. If the atmosphere calls for something more minimalist they shouldn't divert from it just for nostalgia's sake.

Classicvanias did really well with music too (possibly better than most Metroidvanias) so I see no excuse for them not to give us the music we want. Even throw in already made classic tunes from the series rather than boring silence or dull music.
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shadestreet

Nov 4, 2012 10:32 pm GMT
Not sure what people want from the soundtrack...

Excellent music that perfectly fits the atmosphere? You know, like almost every single other Castlevania in the 15+ game franchise featured?

it's not an enclosed space metroidvania that should be accompanied by constant jingles. If the atmosphere calls for something more minimalist they shouldn't divert from it just for nostalgia's sake

It's not like the series became known for having exceptional music once SotN came out. Despite the changes in structure, gameplay, etc - if there was one thing that tied the franchise together, whether it was a platformer, puzzle game, metroidvania, 3-D adventure, or 1 on 1 fighter, was incredible music.

That was somehow lost with the release of Lords of Shadow, and based on the trailers I have seen so far, looks to repeat with this game.
Robin_Mask

Nov 4, 2012 11:58 pm GMT
shadestreet posted...
I am worried this game is going to have a soundtrack like Lords of Shadow - one filled with long sections of silence. Those trailers are making me nervous... can't believe how badly the dropped the ball on the music in LoS...assumed this would right that wrong.

Is the music that big of a deal? That's quite the exaggeration there.

Different developers, different tastes.

At least Mercury Steam tried something with new music and giving it an epic sound, instead of just rehashing the same songs for the past 26 years.
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Gaawa_chan

Nov 5, 2012 5:03 am GMT
shadestreet posted...
It's not like the series became known for having exceptional music once SotN came out. Despite the changes in structure, gameplay, etc - if there was one thing that tied the franchise together, whether it was a platformer, puzzle game, metroidvania, 3-D adventure, or 1 on 1 fighter, was incredible music.

That was somehow lost with the release of Lords of Shadow, and based on the trailers I have seen so far, looks to repeat with this game.

Agreed, but to be fair, LoS doesn't have 'bad' music; it just doesn't leave any particular impression that gives the series a unique identity like before... It sounds like a typical movie soundtrack. If you played it without playing the game, you'd never be able to guess who the composer was or even that the music was for a game. The same problem has never existed before in the series; it's always had a strong musical identity. I can't help but feel that was taken away in an effort to homogenize the series as if that would somehow appeal more to 'the masses.' Maybe it does. But I don't like it.
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shadestreet

Nov 5, 2012 6:55 am GMT
Is the music that big of a deal? That's quite the exaggeration there.

Yes, it really is that big of a deal. Regardless on the quality of the game, a Castlevania fan always knew at the very least we would have an amazing soundtrack - take Lament of Innocence for example, it was a very bland game, but had probably the 3rd best soundtrack in the series and a regular album I listen to.

At least Mercury Steam tried something with new music and giving it an epic sound, instead of just rehashing the same songs for the past 26 years.

I guess you mute the game if you play them? You would know that recycling of music is very rare in the franchise - aside from Castlevania online (Harmony of Dispair) and 2001's Circle of the Moon, every game has almost a completely original soundtrack. Occasionally a bonus mode might feature "Vampire Killer", or for continuity sake you get "Dance of Illusion" at Dracula, but your statement is wrong.
Robin_Mask

Nov 5, 2012 7:40 am GMT
shadestreet posted...
Is the music that big of a deal? That's quite the exaggeration there.

Yes, it really is that big of a deal. Regardless on the quality of the game, a Castlevania fan always knew at the very least we would have an amazing soundtrack - take Lament of Innocence for example, it was a very bland game, but had probably the 3rd best soundtrack in the series and a regular album I listen to.

At least Mercury Steam tried something with new music and giving it an epic sound, instead of just rehashing the same songs for the past 26 years.

I guess you mute the game if you play them? You would know that recycling of music is very rare in the franchise - aside from Castlevania online (Harmony of Dispair) and 2001's Circle of the Moon, every game has almost a completely original soundtrack. Occasionally a bonus mode might feature "Vampire Killer", or for continuity sake you get "Dance of Illusion" at Dracula, but your statement is wrong.

Woah, looks like you got some rough words, about muting the game and all.
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MasterInferno

Nov 5, 2012 11:23 am GMT
From: shadestreet | #007
I guess you mute the game if you play them? You would know that recycling of music is very rare in the franchise - aside from Castlevania online (Harmony of Dispair) and 2001's Circle of the Moon, every game has almost a completely original soundtrack. Occasionally a bonus mode might feature "Vampire Killer", or for continuity sake you get "Dance of Illusion" at Dracula, but your statement is wrong.

Recycling songs? Comparatively rare outside the occasional series standard, but recycling chord progressions, song structures, similar melodies, etc., shows up in basically every CV game. This isn't necessarily a bad thing since the music is so damn good, but to say each soundtrack is "completely original" is patently false.
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shadestreet

Nov 5, 2012 1:57 pm GMT
Recycling songs? Comparatively rare outside the occasional series standard, but recycling chord progressions, song structures, similar melodies, etc., shows up in basically every CV game. This isn't necessarily a bad thing since the music is so damn good, but to say each soundtrack is "completely original" is patently false.

You left off my full quote - "almost completely original" - as in, typically around 85%-90% of the music is original.

Most Castlevania games have 2 or 3 recycled songs out of around 20 songs in total - notable exceptions I pointed out as Circle of the Moon and Harmony of Despair as recent examples, the later of which is a completely recycled game so that is expected.

Reusing 2 or 3 themes per game in a series is quite low compared to the average franchise recycle rate. Simons Quest, Bloodlines (not counting the alt music using the hidden cheat), Lament of Innocence, Curse of Darkness have I believe entirely original soundtracks; SCIV, Rondo, are on the higher side with 3 each.

In that "2 - 3" estimation I am including song which are heavily modified arrangements (like the interpretation of Richters theme in SotN).

Not sure how to take recycling chord progressions, song structures, that leaves a lot of interpretation - you could take that to draw the similarities of the Halo theme to MGS theme if one chose.
MasterInferno

Nov 5, 2012 8:07 pm GMT
What I mean is that...hmm, hard to explain since I forgot most of my music theory terminology...there's a definite style to how most Castlevania songs are composed, how they sound. After playing a couple of games the style is pretty much instantly recognizable. You could take nearly any song from nearly any CV game and put it in another CV game and it wouldn't sound out of place at all (though after thinking about it a bit more, SOTN is a very notable exception to this - only a couple of songs from it would work in the other games in my opinion). It's the style that's being recycled. That's what I mean by the soundtracks not being original.
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shadestreet

Nov 5, 2012 11:36 pm GMT
I think the "style" you find common, is because for the past 15 years, one composer, Michuru Yamane has been the primary composer for the franchise - she started with Bloodlines, but gained mainstream recognition for her work on Symphony of the Night which lead to her composing almost every game since then - certainly every composer has a recognizable style.

But the point remains, whether you prefer the style of Yamane, Taro Kudo, Masahiko Kimura, or Jun Funahashi, the series was know for the music.

Gaawa_chan, above noted (correctly) that Lords of Shadow had a bland movie soundtrack - which is my complaint here.

Each game yielded an amazing soundtrack, UNTIL, Lords of Shadown. Just look at Youtube, each entry to the series probably inspired 20+ people to try their own renditions of particular songs on piano, guitar, etc yet Lords of Shadow broke a 26 year tradition where (so far) only one person felt compelled to take up a song to piano.
Shad0wDance

Nov 6, 2012 12:16 am GMT
Mad old school fan crucifies reboot for lacking old school qualities while simultaneously exaggerating importance of the score.

/thread.
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theAPPLEking

Nov 6, 2012 2:55 am GMT
I played LoS with custom soundtrack and, honestly, it took away from the mood of the game. I was playing tracks from other Castlevania games and it just didn't feel natural. Don't get me wrong, I love some CV tunes. But LoS needs to find a different approach to get a more impressional score that doesn't clash with its style or sound like LotR stock music.
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I_am_who_am

Nov 6, 2012 7:43 am GMT
Mad old school fan crucifies reboot for lacking old school qualities while simultaneously exaggerating importance of the score.

Apparently having good music in videogames is an "old school quality"?

Very sad.
Robin_Mask

Nov 6, 2012 8:50 am GMT
Shad0wDance posted...
Mad old school fan crucifies reboot for lacking old school qualities while simultaneously exaggerating importance of the score.

/thread.

Agreed, having seen all the boards from the franchises of the old days and now, it is safe to say that all fanboys just want a game that fits THEIR needs only and no one elses.
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shadestreet

Nov 6, 2012 9:26 am GMT
I played LoS with custom soundtrack and, honestly, it took away from the mood of the game. I was playing tracks from other Castlevania games and it just didn't feel natural.

Yes, it would be hard to map songs from other games to LoS without taking away the mood - I think the only game which would lend the themes well would be Super Castlevania IV, as it has the most atmospheric music in the franchise. There are a handful of other songs in various games that might work in particular areas, but very few of Yamane's pieces.

Don't get me wrong, I love some CV tunes. But LoS needs to find a different approach to get a more impressional score that doesn't clash with its style or sound like LotR stock music.

Agrree - and most importantly, use silence sparingly - not as the dominant "music".
theAPPLEking

Nov 6, 2012 1:23 pm GMT
Yes, it would be hard to map songs from other games to LoS without taking away the mood - I think the only game which would lend the themes well would be Super Castlevania IV, as it has the most atmospheric music in the franchise. There are a handful of other songs in various games that might work in particular areas, but very few of Yamane's pieces.

I even tried using orchestrated versions of old songs like Bloody Tears:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRZpGKPLCk0

And then it dawned on me. Lords of Shadow's has no organs, pianos, or anything differing from orchestrated chanting. It doesn't need Progressive Rock, but something like haunting ballroom music, suspense, or creepy violins. A soundtrack with varying styles. Being a more realistic game, it can capitalize on scary music. Like the dining hall scene for example. Using some sort of eerie tune could have made the scene creepier, but the silence added nothing to it.

I've been playing Pandora's Tower recently, and some of the music really sounds like it can fit in LoS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr0tJCvwQS8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KUx2wNSDV0&feature=relmfu
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shadestreet

Nov 6, 2012 9:41 pm GMT
The "jingle" songs which dominated very early Castlevania (1 and 2, to some extent, Rondo of Blood) certainly wouldn't have a place in a game like LoS.

Almost the entire soundtrack from Super Castlevania IV however could be perfectly mapped to the game, and some selected tracks from other games. Some examples I think would work:

For Forest/Bog type area:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJH9E2x87EY
-smart composer would layer the organ part to cerain areas as you explore

Or, either parts 1 or parts 2 of Cave, Waterfalls, Sunken City fom SCIV (not sunken city though, the Jazz wouldnt work) - supposedly these were remixed into LOS but I could never detect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqPbRzJ-v40

For several sections of chapter 9 (Cellar SCIV)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9yuZqiOMPs

Either chapter 6 or Chapter 8 could use Courtyard from SCIV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB3dvr7OFGQ

At some point should have either recreated the Dracula theme from SCIV here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgo3Qp04yzU
Or Dance of Illusions, as a theme for Gabriel - but they should have done so in a manner were you don't really realize it - much like how Castlevania 64 had that incredible rendtion of "Bloodlines" found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES8Vefxz470&feature=related

Which was amazingly based on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR0UjAQIX6E

For Electric Labratory, I actually think in a bold move some of Yamane's work from LoI would hold up such as Anti Soul Mysteries Lab:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5skhBmzOS90

And House of Sacred Remains
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQhLG4dOk7o

Best song I have linked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2B5boqLej8
kirusu

Nov 7, 2012 1:50 pm GMT
guess its not true to the original as i thought, but i give them credit for not atleast reusing the same themes. but if people tend to complain more about it they might just go back to vampire killer, bloody tears, and the beginning. i think i can see the main reason they made this reboot lol.
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