complaining about stuff, reminds me of how people were complaining about Sonic's shoes in Sonic 4 Ep. 1 and pretty much every Sonic game, well, not as of late
Out With the New, In With the Old: Video Game Controversy
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- Aug 5, 2012
From Mortal Kombat to GTAIII to Mass Effect 3's ending, Gareth Robinson looks at the evolution of video game controversy and what causes it.
This is a strange video, I like this guy, but what does this have to do with in with the old exactly? Skulls smoking joints and marijuana leaves are worse than ninjas ripping each other apart? Also you "think" aspects of Wow might be a negative influence in the long run? Dude you are a little late on the one.
Lastly the part I object to the most is that you?re annoyed when fans of a series voice their displeasure when a (Showing Diablo 3) series takes a turn for the worst? As human beings in 2012, Art helps make up who we are, personally I think it's kind of cool that the people who where such diehard fans of the series Mass Effect3 (that keep it going through other forms of art as well) had somewhat of a say in the ending of their game, what would a franchise be without its fans anyways? You can argue over whether or not "fan-dome" or "Franchises" are a good thing all day, but it?s nice to know that the Art we invest into with our money, time, love, thoughts, and feelings can love us back. It?s narrow minded of you to think the gamers are automatically in the wrong when they just don?t want to see what makes apart of them tarnish.
You don't feed Mogwai after midnight because then they turn into gremlins. If you have gremlins then your problems don't really include whether or not to feed them after midnight.
@erichlof That would be flashback, one of two snes games that followed that art style, the other was Another World.
Totally agree with you on the Mass Effect 3 ending. Gamers nowadays are spoiled litte brats that believe their actually entitled to something. You payed to play a game someone else created. You either like it or dont. You dont DESERVE it though, get that straight right away.
@grim0187" You payed to play a game someone else created." If I pay for a food that somebody else made in the restaurant you damn sure I would say it sucks if it does. Same will go with any other service, so why not games THAT I OWN?
@R2C25 Video games are just a form of media like a movie, TV show or book. They aren't a service like a fast foods restaurant or car mechanic. If you don't like it your more than welcome to express that but if you go to a movie and the ending sucks you don't DEMAND the film studio go back and redo it or create another ending. You write your crappy review on some website and you move on with your life hoping the creators take it under advisement for their next work. Grim is right...they don't OWE you anything.
@Quezocotl Yeah. Every generation has the right to enjoy what they enjoy without the elders shitting on it. In the 90's I had to fend off the same level of criticism and become a philosophical apologist on the content of the games I played, and said 'hey this isn't all baseless gore, it's in context', and there are some thoughtful puzzles to get through too, But with today's AAA titles it's getting harder to make that argument. MGS and COD two different genres, both trying to be 1/2 action film games in their own way. One actually has a 'real story'. How many of our US games would make the effort to talk about the dangers of Nuclear Proliferation, and create really theatrical level boss villains) Hell The first time I heard chatterbox on GTA3's radio I looked at the game objectively. this isn't just tasteless violent freedom, this is an intelligent caricature of America's problems. Not every game aspires to be that super. some come out preachy. and some are smart and fun in simple ways, but back in the days we had humbling abusive boss battles and dead-man walking stages full of nasty traps, scarce health pickup which were agonizing in the 90's but should be fair play in today's multiplayer environment. So it's not the games but if we shared the tricky and yet strangely fascinating content and difficulty, puzzle, clever plot twist, character depth and nuance more with today's Triple AAA titles and gaming environment it would really invigorate the industry.
@DieselCat18 No... at first I was about to lash out at R2C25, but after reading the whole story, he's actually right. Consumers have every right to express distaste. It isn't that modern gamers are spoiled little kids who think they're "entitled," it's that modern developers are operating in a HIGHLY competitive market. Back in the days of the NES, when you would spend 30 minutes beating a game to see an end screen that said "Conglaturation! Thanks for praying our game!," you just rolled your eyes and moved on. But, we live in a time where special effects, a good story and cinematics make a game what it is. Not to mention the (sometimes) weeks you have to invest in a game to complete it, if I get some crappy ending, I'm gonna feel at least disappointed. I'm 32, and grew up in the 8-Bit era, so I feel the lack of appreciation new gamers have for old titles, but I can't stand it when pretentious purists pull this "kids today" crap. Kids today are growing up in a generation where games consistently deliver when it comes to kick-ass elements within' a game, and suggesting that they just keep their mouths shut when it comes to an unsatisfactory release (just because they weren't alive when ALL game endings were crappy compared to today) is bad for the whole industry. How will game developers learn how to improve upon their product without critics to let them know what the problems are? When you're in a creative field like film or game development... or even culinary art (since we're comparing games to food), you HAVE to be able to accept criticism. If you don't know how to learn from what your critics are telling you... especially in THIS savage industry... heh... you ain't gonna make it.
I think your missing the point entirely. No one is denying your right to express an opinion on whether or not you like or dislike a movie, video game, book, etc.
It's about the sense of entitlement that many gamers have before a game is even released. The only ownership we gamers are entitled to is once we buy it, it's ours the time we spend playing it. We don't own the rights to that game, the publisher and developer do. Same as a movie or a book. We own that individual physical or digital copy that happens to be in our position, but we don't own that game out-right.
That was the point of this video commentary, to many people feel they have the right to complain about something before it even becomes available to the public. He was right, one can go on line and find hundreds if not thousands of topics posted on forums of people complaining , arguing and bitching about how this is wrong, it will be bad and how screwed up this franchise will be when the next game is released because of something one didn't like in the game prior and feel they have a right to tell that game developer they better get it right the next time or else.
Well it's like anything, if you spend your hard earned cash on something and you end up not liking it, don't go back for seconds. If you do and you felt like you got burned again, then that's your fault...but none of us are entitled.
@avngr9 Who said that I "DEMANDED" anything? If I don't like something I express it. I don't keep my mouth shut just because a smart ass wrote a crappy review telling me what to do. I payed for a something that I have all the right in the world to criticize, whether you like it or not moron.
G-man, you bring up GREAT points especially in regards to World of Worldcraft and also Modern Warfare where little kids just sit there screaming "F-you" at strangers because they got shot. I don't understand why people start crying about how violent MW3 is and yet sit there and buy it for their immature 10 year old kids to play. Isn't there something wrong with that or is that just me? ._.
@Irukapooka That is Metal Gear Rising Revengence
Ah yes, an early shot in the salvo to justify nominating ME3 for GotY in awards season: "Those whiny, entitled gamers create controversy where there is none. We reviewers, the high clerics of gaming, truly understand greatness when we see it." Too late. Reviewers' fawning praise for ME3 validated their sycophantic, symbiotic relastionship with the companies who advertise in gaming publications. Regardless of the endings, ME3 isn't a 10 for many reasons; it's maybe an 8.5: broken codex; broken journal; broken quest-giving system; clunky cover system; vestigal and almost pointless scanning system; clipping; sound, dialogue and animation bugs; and of course, the plot holes and breakowns in logic--an I'm not even talking about the endings. Throw in the hamfisted, crude, poorly-conceived and poorly writtene endings, and we have a 5.0, a 6.5 at the very best. And here's the bottom line on the ME3 endings and writing: we must judge them in light of what came before. The ME3 endings aren't bad for a Gears of War with Interactive Dialogue Game--but that's not what the ME series was. It was a beautifuly conceived and executed singleplayer RPG-TPS that morphed into a multiplayer TPS-RPG, emphasis on the shooter part. That's why the endings are sad.
I can't see the logic in your argument about ME3. Sure, many complained that they wanted a "real" ending, but that isn't what consumers got. What they got was a bunch of dialogue that was supposed to lay out the subtle nuances of the different choices, to make them, I'm assuming, feel different. I'd say the great majority of people who wanted a new ending (I was not one of them. I understood what they were attempting to do with the ending, I just did not agree with how it felt very much like a bait and switch at the end.) did not care what sort of expounding was done in the DLC. What we wanted we knew we would never get, which was an ending that felt like it mattered. We knew our choices amounted to virtually the same outcome, regardless of how The Child spun the story at the end. I don't feel that this was an unreasonable expectation since we were told all along that our choices DID matter. They forgot to mention that this formula only held until the point it mattered most...
"Screaming upset at people you've never met".... You mean like idiots with road rage? This is nothing new.
Interesting sentiments. People just see the outside surface not the not so obvious concept. As long as the game doesn't have whores or over the top violence its cool. As long as it has a few guns some grenades and people lip bashing each other its cool :)
I've got to say that this is one of the best assessments of Video Game controversy I have ever seen - you should be in the court room ripping apart cases bit by bit.
Kudos to G-Man.
I'm not entirely sure I follow the move from talking about GTA3 controversy to ME3, but OK. In the bulk of cases here the media is generating the shitstorm from thin air and exposing gaming and those weird people who play them. Its not like there isn't still controversy totally generated from the non-gaming world anymore. Like that Modern Warfare 2 level "No Russian" that got everyone all fired up. The Mass Effect 1 lesbian sex fracas? Must be about time for another one of these "incidents".
Maybe its a sign of progress that the ME3 controversy is the media reluctantly responding _to_ that weird community of people who play video games rather than just trotting us out as grist for the news mill.
Out With the New, In With the Old is my favorite segment in PC Newsletter in quite some time! Keep it up!
*Media* "The school shooter had a history of mental instability, drug use, avoided people, would often have anger outbursts at the slightest provocation, had a fascination with guns and knives, and played video games as a hobby." *Many parents and every person ever in government* "Video games, you say?"
Gareth, I am tired of game journalist coming down on fans of games complaining about their gaming experience "as if they had some sort of ownership over it in the first place" (if that is an incorrect quote blame it on me speaking English and not Australian). I plop down 60$ for a game, and guess what, I DO OWN IT. Also, Games are the only truly interactive art form and the user experience is integral to the completion of the game.
I bought mass effect 1 and enjoyed it (I knew I would because of reviews, and the fact I liked KOTOR and knew Bioware's reputation). I bought ME2 and enjoyed it. I disagree with some of the changes, and I find the father issues of the majority of characters to be a little narrow creatively, but still I enjoyed it, and the reputation remains intact. Then ME3 comes out, and disapointment abounds. Considering the money and time I have invested in the series, i believe that my expectation that the game be enjoyable and the storyline fulfilling are reasonable.
@Ocard69 You own a copy of the game and nothing else. Those that created the game own it. If you consider video games an art form then it must be treated as such like any other art form. If you buy a painting you technically own the physical copy but you don't own the heart and soul the painter put forth on canvas. If you go see a movie you don't own the movie. The only thing you own is the paper ticket that was printed out after your purchase. The video game is art argument is interesting because gamers want it to be taken seriously yet when the game isn't exactly to their liking the sparks start flying. No other art form, if you lump video games into this category, suffers the same kind of backlash or scrutiny. Either way the most basic definition of art is that it is your perception. If you have no hand in its creation you have nothing but your perception when the final product is completed by the artist regardless if you $60 helped produce a sequel.
My point is that as a consumer you have choice. Buying Mass Effect 3 just because you liked ME 1 & 2 or because of Bioware's reputation is silly in my opinion. Even if I adore the franchise or the developer I always do my homework. Movies are no different. Books are no different. Game are no different. Reviews and word of mouth are your greatest tools as a consumer.
@Ocard69 Just so you know, thinking about your statement when you say video games being an art form of interactive entertainment, then the developers make the art, we (gamers) enjoy it or hate it, regardless of what the outcome ought to be. I understand sometimes the gaming experience are lacking the wow factor, specially when the ending comes and leaves us hanging. One good example is Halo 2 and how every1 hated it, just because no1 fully understood it. But when H3 came out every1 loved the entire trilogy,forgetting the fact they argued about it b4 that. Understand game developers are artist of the XXI century, they take alot of time and effort making the games hearing our congratulations or arguments towards them. At least all we can do is accept the aftermath and wait for an answer.
I like my games bloody and gory and with lots of naked people running in them that are on fire and spitting acid at prostitutes.... and you know what....
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THINKS
games are games, they are either fun or boring.... you find them offensive then gtfo and let us play in peace ...
well that's what I would say XD
I agree that people are getting too uppity about new games--especially games that aren't even out yet. In the last year, I've learned to avoid the GS forums like the plague, due to the sheer number of whiners and cynics in there. *shudder*
I love how he says "(...) their favorite franchise is getting ruined (...)" and simultaneously video shows diablo 3 cinematics. lol
@fael097 I wonder if showing the D3 cinematic was a reference to his opinion of the game, the opinion, or 7 billion Diablo fans who complained about the game, or both. Judging by his laid back nature, i am guessing the middle option.
I grew up a gamer, and I've been playing games for a long time, since atari, and I 've played so many of the violent or "controversial" games over the years. Haven't done a thing to me folks. Sometimes there are bad apples that can spoil the bunch and ruin the fun.
I like video-games better when the game-industries were trying to appeal to geeks/gamers.
Now they just try to appeal to average joe/lee to play the games. And the quality has gone down since. Not the technology but the quality and freedom of expression in games is dying :)
@FemalePervert Yeah, it seems like game developers are hiring mass market screenwriters to write games, now that development is advanced enough to allow storytelling. What I mean by "mass market screenwriter" is "someone who is paid to write a story that the public will want to see."
Contrast that with the good kind of writer: someone who is paid to translate an idea of theirs into a written story. Or, someone who is so good at manufacturing stories that they are paid to translate another person's idea into a written story.
The difference is that, when the good kind of writer is involved, the idea for the story exists before the idea to sell the story exists.
PS. I'm lolling hard at your user name.
I agree with him, its like nowadays when people bitch about stuff they don't like they act as if the protaganist is their personal damn property. The new dante is one such example too many people screamed bloody murder over it and its not even released yet.