This Week in Games - December 22, 2012

Happy Holidays! BioShock, bankruptcy, Borderlands DLC, the decline of western civilization, Bobbty Kotick's dating life, and the NRA.

by

Attempts to find some kind of meaning, and something to vilify, in the wake of a tragedy such as the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, are completely understandable. As seems to be the norm of late, attention is yet again turning to violent video games as something to be singled-out for blame. The political attention began this week with this Tweet from Obama administration advisor David Axelrod.

This sparked plenty of attention on Twitter, and fueled a number of stories throughout the week predicting an escalation of finger-pointing in gaming's direction. It arrived in force on Wednesday when Democratic West Virginia senator Jay Rockefeller (picture below, and no - that's not this particular bill he's waving around) introduced a bill to congress that would task the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) to study the effects of violent video games and other programs on children. The measure comes less than a week after the horrors at Sandy Hook. "Major corporations, including the video game industry, make billions on marketing and selling violent content to children," Rockefeller said in a statement on his website. "They have a responsibility to protect our children. If they do not, you can count on the Congress to take a more aggressive role." The bill would direct the NAS to conduct a "comprehensive study and investigation" of the link between violent games and other violent video programming and harmful effects on children. More specifically, the NAS would be charged with looking into whether or not video games cause children to act aggressively or "otherwise hurt their wellbeing," and if so, determine if that effect is notably distinguishable from other types of media. This study would also look at the "direct and long-lasting impact" of violent content on a child's well-being. "With respect to violent video games, NAS must look at whether current or emerging aspects of games, like their interactive nature and the personal and vivid way violence is portrayed, have a unique impact on kids," the statement reads. Separately, Rockefeller said he will call on the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to further their work in this area. "Changes in technology now allow kids to access violent content online with less parental involvement. It is time for these two agencies to take a fresh look at these issues," he said. If the bill passes, NAS must submit a report on its study within 18 months to Congress as well as the FTC and FCC.

If you've been following this kind of thing for the last few years, you'll no doubt be rolling your eyes at yet another potential waste of government resources and taxpayer money. After all, previous studies of this nature have failed to turn up any data that supports a connection between violent games and real world gun violence, so why will this one show anything different? The Washington Post ran a story on Monday this week demonstrating that video game consumption "does not seem to correlate at all with an increase in gun violence," and cited data from 10 different countries including Germany, Australia, South Korea, and the Netherlands. The outlier on gun violence? The United States.

On Friday, the National Rifle Association finally broke their silence on the subject, taking the opportunity to finger violent games as partially to blame for last week's tragedy. "There exists in this country a callous, corrupt, and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people," NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre said. "Through vicious, violent video games with names like Bulletstorm, Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat, and Splatterhouse. And here's one: it's called Kindergarten Killers. It's been online for 10 years. How come my research department could find it and all of yours either couldn't or didn't want anyone to know you had found it?" He went on to question whether violent media of any kind should be called entertainment. "But is that what it really is?" he questioned. "Isn't fantasizing about killing people as a way to get your kicks really the filthiest form of pornography?"

"Isn't fantasizing about killing people as a way to get your kicks really the filthiest form of pornography?" - Wayne LaPierre, NRA

LaPierre argued that media conglomerates are caught up in a "race to the bottom," and in fact compete with each other to "shock, violate, and offend every standard of civilized society." Complicit in this behavior, according to LaPierre, is the national media, their corporate owners, and stockholders, who are "silent enablers" and even "co-conspirators." He claimed media "demonize" lawful gun owners and "fill the national debate with misinformation and dishonest thinking."

The NRA's solution? "As parents, we do everything we can to keep our children safe. It is now time for us to assume responsibility for their safety at school. The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be personally involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Would you rather have your 911 call bring a good guy with a gun from a mile away ‚ or a minute away?"

If you want to read the full text of the statement, you can find a PDF of it here. LaPierre's comments drew a sharp response from gun-control advocates. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg accused the NRA of "a shameful evasion of the crisis facing our country. They offered a paranoid, dystopian vision of a more dangerous and violent America where everyone is armed and no place is safe," he said.

Please share your feelings on the subject in the comments. There's certainly plenty to chew on.

BioShock Infinite Hype Continues

Irrational Games creative director Ken Levine has offered a tease regarding the BioShock Infinite endgame. Speaking to Outside Xbox, Levine claimed the game's ending is unprecedented and consequently may not be full accepted or embraced by all fans of the franchise. "The plot actually gets more interesting as it goes on, Levine said. "The end of the game, I can't tell whether people will like it or not like it. I can say it's something we're incredibly proud of. It's like nothing you've actually experienced in a video game before. It's quite unique and quite particular to this world, these characters, and this franchise." Levine didn't share much more on the subject, however he did say Irrational is working to make sure the story doesn't decline in its second half, as many feel was the case in the original BioShock. "You had a situation there where you had this amazing character and once he's gone the story loses some of its steam," he said. "That is something we took to heart in this game."

Levine bookended this statement on Wednesday by releasing video of the first five minutes of the game (below. Watch it at your peril.) "Want to see the first few minutes of Infinite?" he asked on Twitter. "If you watch it and complain about SPOILERS, you're dead to me."

Keeping up the media onslaught ahead of the Holiday break, Levine held a Reddit Ask Me Anything session on Thursday where he talked about his inspirations and motivations. When asked about the decision to stick to a first person perspective to tell the new game's story, he explained that the method allows for a more intimate level of detail. "I love first person because it gets you so close to the detail of the world," Levine said. "[BioShock Infinite] wouldn't work in any other perspective." He was also asked if he would consider tackling other genres for different products in the future, but he did not respond. Later in the session, Levine revealed that original BioShock and BioShock 2 composer Garry Schyman is returning to create the music for BioShock Infinite. Levine teased that Schyman's score this time around is "very different" from the first two games, but at the same time "very much guided by the same aesthetic principles."

THQ Filed Chapter 11, Ubisoft May Pick Up Pieces

Beleaguered Saints Row publisher THQ filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Wednesday. The company has entered into an asset purchase agreement with a bidder to acquire "substantially all of the assets of THQ's operating business." This includes THQ's four wholly-owned studios and games in development. "The sale will allow THQ to shed certain legacy obligations and emerge with the strong financial backing of a new owner with substantial experience in software and technology," the company said in a statement. The company's day-to-day operations will not be affected during the sale period, the company said. Every THQ studio remains open and development on all projects (Saints Row 4, Homefront 2, Metro: Last Night, South Park: The Stick of Truth, and Company of Heroes 2 along with the unannounced game from Assassin's Creed developer Patrice D√©silets at the company's Montreal studio) is unaffected. No layoffs are expected. Employees will continue to work on their usual schedules and will receive their previously agreed upon compensation and benefits. "The sale and filing are necessary next steps to complete THQ‚ transformation and position the company for the future, as we remain confident in our existing pipeline of games, the strength of our studios, and THQ‚ deep bench of talent," said THQ CEO Brian Farrell in a statement. "We are grateful to our outstanding team of employees, partners and suppliers who have worked with us through this transition. We are pleased to have attracted a strong financial partner for our business, and we hope to complete the sale swiftly to make the process as seamless as possible."

"We have incredible, creative talent here at THQ," new THQ president Jason Rubin said. "We look forward to partnering with experienced investors for a new start as we will continue to use our intellectual property assets to develop high-quality core games, create new franchise titles, and drive demand through both traditional and digital channels." Rubin spent much of the day responding to questions on Twitter. He assured concerned gamers that he is doing "everything in my power" to ensure that the Saints Row sequel, in particular, is unaffected by the changes. To hammer the point home, he made this comment accompanied by a photo of himself wielding the iconic dildo bat from Saints Row 3.

In a blog post at the end of the day, Rubin noted "Chapter 11 is a safety net for U.S. companies. American Airlines is currently in Chapter 11 restructuring, yet I flew back and forth on that airline when I visited Volition two weeks ago. Donald Trump and his companies have been in Chapter 11 four times. You can add to that list household names such as Macy‚ Eddie Bauer, the Chicago Cubs, Chrysler, Delta Airlines, General Motors, the Pittsburgh Penguins, Marvel Studios, and MGM, among many others. MGM filed Chapter 11 two years ago, and this year it released ‚ Skyfall‚ and ‚ The Hobbit,‚ two of the biggest titles of the year. That‚ what I mean when I say new start!"

On Friday morning it was revealed that Ubisoft is one of the top candidates interested in purchasing THQ's assets,. Sources told trade news site MCV that the French publisher has shown interest in buying THQ's wholly-owned studios and franchises. As you may recall, this is not the first time Ubisoft has publicly acknowledged interest in THQ. Last month, Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot said, "They have good things. We are always interested in good brands. For sure, it's something we can consider, but I can't tell you more." MCV's sources say Ubisoft has held "lengthy discussions" with THQ to get a deal done. One of the main sticking points in the negotiations, according to the sources, is that of price. Ubisoft is reportedly interested in a "bargain buy," and will hold out until THQ decides to sell specific properties instead of a total package.

The War Z Woes

Dissatisfied consumers took to Reddit early this week to voice their concerns surrounding the release of The War Z on Steam. Users accused developer Hammerpoint Interactive of releasing a patch for the Steam version of the game following Reddit reports that claimed this version of the game wasn't complete. According to Reddit user "IAmFluffey", the patch "proves [Hammerpoint Interactive's] quick money-grabbing and game-breaking schemes."

"After changing the description of their game due to [Reddit user] TotalHailbut calling them out on false advertising, they have now updated the game with a new patch," he continued. The post goes on to list a variety of changes in the new patch, including "increasing the respawn-timer from 1 hour to 4 hours", while adding a "revive" button where players can spend real-world money to revive instantly. Reddit users have suggested that this addition forces players into a micro-transaction model. According to the post, the update is also forcing players to sign a terms of service agreement before playing, which reportedly "disallows refunds" of the game. After publishing a similar thread on the Steam forums, user "IAmFluffey" was reportedly banned. The users claim that Hammerpoint Interactive subsequently shut down the entire The War Z discussion thread on Steam.

On Wednesday the game itself was removed from Steam. A Valve representative told Kotaku that the game was mistakenly published in the store and will not return until the company speaks with Hammerpoint Interactive to resolve issues. "From time to time a mistake can be made and one was made by prematurely issuing a copy of War Z for sale via Steam," the Valve rep said. "We apologize for this and have temporary [sic] removed the sale offering of the title until we have time to work with the developer and have confidence in a new build." Gamers who already bought The War Z can continue to play it. Those who bought the game and are not satisfied can seek a refund by opening a support ticket at Valve's website.

On Thursday, Arma II mod Day Z creator Dean Hall spoke out about the situation, saying the controversy had left him "depressed" and led to him considering quitting game development altogether. Writing on Reddit as "rocket2guns," Hall broke his silence, saying, "I know I have been very quiet lately. So this will be really all I'll say for the moment. I've been pretty depressed about the whole situation," Hall said. "From a personal standpoint, this whole 'saga' of the development made me seriously question if I wanted to be involved in the industry and I gave serious thought to cutting my losses and not being involved in the project." Hall said he has been "hammered" with requests from media and fans alike, asking for his take on the situation and for further information about Day Z. He declined to provide any insight, noting he is keeping to himself while working on the standalone version of Day Z, which is scheduled for release next year.

Minecraft Documentary Hits This Weekend

Minecraft: The Story of Mojang will premiere Saturday, December 22 on Xbox Live. The documentary from 2Player Productions will be available for Xbox Live Gold subscribers in the U.S., UK, Ireland, Belgium, Portugal, Austria, France, Finland, and Sweden. As for the film itself, Minecraft: The Story of Mojang follows Notch, and documents the challenges he faced during the company's first year. It addresses the massive success of Minecraft, and also features insight from journalists and industry professionals. The documentary began its life as a Kickstarter project in February 2011 and surpassed its $150,000 target, raking in a total of $210,297 when it closed in March of that year.

The Business News Part. Stay Awake

Electronic Arts has been removed from the NASDAQ-100, an index of the 100 largest domestic and international non-financial companies. Electronic Arts was pushed out as part of NASDAQ's annual reshuffling of the list to make room for newcomers like Western Digital and Liberty Global, and the new list will be effective from December 24. EA had a rough time of it this year, with shares hitting their lowest prices since 1999 partially due to its struggle to retain subscribers to Star Wars: The Old Republic, a game rumored to be one of the most expensive (if not the most expensive) video game ever made. Netflix, Blackberry maker RIM, and Green Mountain Coffee Roasters were also dropped. Major EA competitor Activision is now the only traditional video game publisher to remain on the NASDAQ-100 list, though several companies with ties to the business like Microsoft and Nvidia remain.

‚ Think about what it‚ like for my dating life when the first picture that comes up is me as the Devil." - Robert Kotick, Activision

Speaking of Activision, CEO Robert Kotick was profiled by the New York Times this week, in which he noted that firing Infinity Ward head honchos Jason West and Vince Zampella in 2010 was not a difficult decision for him to make. Kotick addressed the swift and severe action taken against the high-profile developers. You find out two executives are planning to break their contracts, keep the money you gave them, and steal 40 employees. What do you do? You fire them,‚ Kotick said. Activision's high-profile court case against West and Zampella, along with those 40 former Infinity Ward developers, was settled in May this year before it could be heard by a trial. Terms of the deal were not disclosed at the time and have not been since, though one analyst previously projected this figure to be in the tens of millions. Elsewhere in the profile, it was revealed why the massively popular Call of Duty brand has not spawned a Hollywood adaptation. Kotick said game-to-film adaptations rarely work out and could in fact blemish the franchise. Hollywood studios have reached out to Activision, he said, though all requests thus far have been denied.

Kotick also noted in the profile that the online hate (which frequently manifests as Photoshopped pictures of him with horns) directed his way is cramping his style with the ladies. Think about what it‚ like for my dating life when the first picture that comes up is me as the Devil,‚ he said, noting that he is recently divorced. ‚ You see all this chatter and you realize that they game the search results. These super-sophisticated 19-year-olds are smarter than our expensive PR firm.‚

On the subject of unpopular game publisher CEO's, here's something about everyone's least favorite gaming executive. Zynga CEO Mark Pincus was awarded the illustrious title of one of the "worst CEOs of 2012," by Dartmouth College Tuck School of Business professor Sydney Finkelstein. His list of the five worst honchos was published at Bloomberg, and provided multiple reasons for why Pincus came up short this year. Finkelstein said Pincus made some "rookie mistakes" including depending far too heavily on Facebook. Additionally, the professor cited Pincus unloading 16 million Zynga shares as a reason to believe he may not have much confidence in his own company. As you'd expect, Zynga's PR folks were reluctant to give comment to Bloomberg and have also not responded to GameSpot's requests either. The other four CEOs named were Best Buy's Brian Dunn, Chesapeake Energy top executive Aubrey McClendon, Avon's Andrea Jung, and Bankia executive Rodrigo Rata. Zynga shares have tanked this year. After peaking in March at around $15, the company's per-share value as of Friday stands at $2.32.

Get Your Own Gravity Gun

On a much lighter subject: Fans wishing that Gordon Freeman's iconic Gravity Gun was a real thing are in luck. Kinda. Toy maker Neca will release a 1:1 recreation of the classic Half-Life weapon this spring, the company announced through its blog. A price for the gun was not announced and quantities will be limited, much as they were for the original version of the firm's Portal gun earlier this year. As any self-respecting fan is aware, the Gravity Gun's real name is the Zero Point Energy Field Manipulator. It first appeared in Half-Life 2, given to players by Alyx Vance at Black Mesa East. Neca's Gravity Gun will be on display at the 2013 New York Toy Fair in February and preorders for the toy will begin "soon." The company has created a prototype, which shows that the Gravity Gun will also light up.

On the subject of Half-Life and Valve, the Steam sale season kicked off on Thursday this week. Among the many bargains is the entire Valve Collection for just $49.99.

Godus Crowd-funded

Peter Molyneux's new God game Godus reached its Kickstarter goal on Wednesday, with just under two days to go to its final funding deadline. The fund closed at over £526,000 ($850,385) pledged of an original £450,000 ($727,515) target. Godus, as you may be aware, is a reinvention of Molyneux's classic God game Populous. It is in development at 22Cans for PC, Mac, and mobile devices, and will not require a constant Internet connection for its single-player mode. The game is due out during September 2013. Separately, 22Cans announced that it has been contacted by a range of composers and musicians wishing to contribute to Godus. One such musician is Harry Waters, son of Pink Floyd bassist and vocalist Roger Waters. No firm collaboration plans have been nailed down yet, but 22Cans said it is exploring how it can work with Harry Waters on the soundtrack for Godus.

Sir Hammerlock Cometh

The third batch of downloadable content for Borderlands 2 has been revealed. Due out January 15 (that's my birthday, in case you care) for Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and PC will be Sir Hammerlock's Big Game Hunt. It follows Captain Scarlett and Her Captain's Booty and Mr. Torgue's Campaign of Carnage. Sir Hammerlock's Big Game Hunt is included with the $30 Borderlands 2 Season Pass and will be available for others at $10. The content adds a new zone called Aegrus, as well as new areas to explore like Savage Lands, Lodge, and Scylla's Grove. It also brings new hunting-themed weapons (including legendary weapons) and loot, and a fanboat vehicle, which is kinda similar to the sand skiff from Pirate's Booty. The new content takes place just after the end of Borderlands 2, and pits players against a new villain named Professor Nakayama. You will also be battling new creatures including Wetland Drifters, Spores, Armored Boroks, Scaylions, Bandit-style Savage Warriors, and a new Seraph Guardian team raid boss called Voracidous. What's most interesting about these creatures is that there are new behaviors associated with them, notably more of a tribal hierarchy whereby "chiefs" both coordinate and heal their minions. Savages are controlled by Witch Doctors, the Varkid-like Scaylions have a queen that controls their behavior.

Happy Holidays!

This is the final (and looking back at it, somwhat depressing--sorry about that) entry in This Week in Games for 2012, as it will be on a break during the Holidays. Have an excellent season, plays some awesome games, and have a great New Year. See you in 2013.

Discussion

85 comments
k7z7
k7z7

Heard it on the news.The kid that did all these killings in Newtown used a Bushmaster assault rifle.Since then, sales of the particular brand have gone sky-high.That piece of info tells a lot; it's the American society that has the problem, video games are not the cause.(You cannot legally buy a gun if you are a kid...).

 

So basically they say that if a kid (without any game experience) was trusted with a loaded assault rifle to his/her disposal, he/she wouldn't get any ideas of killing others, only games do that.You can find this games sold all round the world, yet there are no global-spread acts of violence such as this one, only in America -repeatedly.Did any Congress member ever bother to wonder why?

 

And if this is the case, maybe they should ban pornography (since NRA mentioned it) since it 'could' be responsible for the HIV, or high-horsepower cars because they 'could' lead to fatal traffic accidents.Or maybe they should ban Hollywood action/thriller movies because they 'could' lead society to moral decay.

 

(To the u.s. politicians)You people live in such a huge moral plastic bubble.

Buck_Swaggler
Buck_Swaggler

Everyone knows Kotick isn't the Devil... He's just one of the lackeys.

 

Also, violence is STILL being blamed on games?  How?  Do they also think video games caused the Crusades or the World Wars or 911?

 

How can people in positions of power be such idiots?

SpikeSpeagal
SpikeSpeagal

See a lot of NRA comments but what I want to know is, Why is Robert Kotick whose almost 50, Scoping 19 year old girls. Rather creepy there to me, a guy who probably has a son or daughter that age or older checking girls that are only 2 years past the jail sentence.

 

Robert Kotick---Now Officially a Creeper as well as the Devil.

colt_a
colt_a

The NRA wants to suppress the first amendment to protect the second.  As Penny Arcade said, what an odd sort of 'patriot'

trophywhore
trophywhore

The NRA wants everybody to have real guns, because that is safer, but wants nobody to have pretend guns, because those make you want to use real guns?  I'm lost...

kenmanius
kenmanius

NRA- passing the usual sh*t off to next guy. Your turn.

Kotck- cuz being fat and rich just isn't enough these days.

Alexander327
Alexander327

Well isn't it up to the parent from stopping their kids from playing video games such as GTA?  Don't blame the video game industry blame the parents who allow kids to play violent video games.

Agent_Vincent87
Agent_Vincent87

Will they ever increase the level cap in Borderlands 2? I would like to wait til they do to play anymore DLC...

orthodox1976
orthodox1976

Holy smokes, what a kaleidoscope of differing stories!

 

C'mon Molyneux, what's with the Kickstarter? Now you need people to fund your games? Oh that's right, no more investors will finance you because you couldn't make a good Fable since the original Xbox... what a shame too because that game was awesome.

slefo29
slefo29

I already know the ending to Bioshock! You either get a green, red or blue wave! 

RaveNRolla
RaveNRolla

"for every bad guy with a gun we need a good guy with a gun" is an actual statement of an american about what happened. and the americans still wonder why this stuff happens so frequently in the u.s.? if every mad kid in europe would be able to buy guns this easily i'm sure it would happen here more often too, but well, it isn't. think hard americans, what can u do? hmmm

Sheik2
Sheik2

For me, this situation has a simple explanation: Leaders of our society (such as government and high-business men) don't want to accept their fault for NOT taking care of problems in young people, like all these kids that shoot guns in their schools all around the US. And then, with a lot of fear and desperation, they develop a psicological defensive mechanism, so they try to blame everyone but them.It's too bad for them that in these times, many of us are actually smarter than them and we know the truth. Their marketing doesn't work anymore. However this time they passed the line even more: Blaming the gaming industry is just... well, stupid.

nate1222
nate1222

Axelrod's comment?

No need for critique from a guy who holds meeting in "the SPIN room". He himself is more about marketing and image than actually solving social issues. And I'm saying this as someone who voted for Obama.

 

LaPierre?

Loser. Rather than critique the person (the shooter's mom) who'd given a mental patient access to guns -AND TRAINING, he'd rather go into panic mode in an attempt to divert attention. Fail.

 

Rockefeller?

Talking out of his ass. This shooter wasn't a "kid". He was a twenty-something mental patient whose own mother taught him how to shoot and gave him access to GUNS -not video games. Besides, the ERSB has done a better job than Hollywood or the music industry at labeling products to NOT be sold to minors. The kids' parents need to read the ratings on the packages before buying.

poster012
poster012

 @k7z7 Don't forget to ban music, too. After all, Charles Manson attributed his actions to a song.

RevanBlake
RevanBlake

 @Buck_Swaggler Yes indeed studies have proved that Pacman has caused 911.

Those ghost running around surely was a great deal of influence on Alqaeda

deathblow3
deathblow3

 @trophywhore lol you make more sense than the nra. this sandy nook killer wasnt a as the nra called it a bad guy he was a nut that if he could get a gun wouldnt of had one. and i am sure his mom taking him to the gun range had nothing to do with his gun love or video games. hell i love to shoot fools in the face in video game but i hate real guns and have no desire to fire or ever use one. even though it was the norm when i grew up.

 

RAD_RADIO
RAD_RADIO

 @Alexander327 Or... stop blaming. Pointing fingers at who's responsible solves essentially nothing. 

Buck_Swaggler
Buck_Swaggler

 @RaveNRolla making guns harder to get legally doesn't do anything to those who get them illegally

RAD_RADIO
RAD_RADIO

 @RaveNRolla For lack of a more witty come back, you're an idiot.No one is talking about making it easier for angry kids to buy guns (and for the record, it's not that hard for someone to get a fire arm illegally), there is however a discussion about making it easier for people to defend themselves... in the case of this tragedy, teachers being able to defend their class. Tell me... how do you prevent a mass murder? How can you tell someone is thinking about committing one?  That's right, there is literally NO FREAKING WAY to preemptively stop a mass murder before it's actually about to happen. How do you stop it once it's about to happen? You pull out your concealed fire arm and blast that crazy person (or... a big knife or club if you prefer)Had the principle of that school had a fire arm, or ANY sort of weapon (to my knowledge they were able to tackle the assailant before being shot) those 20 children would still be alive.Evil will always find a way.  The only thing you can do is allow people the chance to properly  defend against the evil. No statistic or irrelevant data can counter that logic, you just can't.

SweetPandaLove
SweetPandaLove

 @RaveNRolla oh really?  by that logic, we should make heroin and meth illegal too, cause that'll get them off the streets.  wrong.

 

making guns illegal only takes guns out of one persons hand; the law abiding citizen.

Noformation
Noformation

 @RaveNRolla So making it harder for people to buy guns is the solution? What's to stop them from using knives or everyday items to make an explosive? These things are just tools – the users are what we need to curb.

RAD_RADIO
RAD_RADIO

 @Sheik2 To even think the government was even partially capable of taking care of troubled youth would be idiotic, they simply can't and shouldn't take any responsibility, because it's obvious they weren't capable in the first place. Besides who the hell cares who's responsible... at this point does that really matter? All we can do is what we can as individuals, protect what is ours, and hope for the best.I think the real problem is idiots thinking there CAN be something done about this (other than shoot to kill)... as if collectively we need to be accountable for the carnal evils of on person in our country. Forget rugged individualism, forget pursuing our own objectives... if somewhere an American commits a horrible act its suddenly up to everyone else to figure out what happened.I'll tell you what happened, those kids weren't safe enough, when the ultimate evil engulfed them all. 

k7z7
k7z7

 @poster012  @k7z7we should ban also spirits because they can be responsible for alcoholism.Hell, why cut corners, let's ban everything and be proud for Democracy!

 

BTW, please someone arrest me, because I have the audacity to play on the terrorist faction in Counter Strike.

deathblow3
deathblow3

 @GamerLegend10  @Alexander327

  sure they do so does movies, tv, books and art. the last 3 big movies are all based on books that are more violent than the movies. hunger games anyone? a movie about kid having to kill kids at the enjoyment of adults. any war movie glorifies killing.

deathblow3
deathblow3

 @RAD_RADIO  @RaveNRolla your assumming the principle would have the guts to run to the sound of gunfire and shoot someone. or that the teacher would have time to get to her gun before. getting shoot the killer knows he is shooting some one the victim does not so unless she pulls her hand on her gun everytime some one walks into her class she will be entirely unprepared to protect herself. also having a loaded gun around kids is extremely unsafe.  if what you say is true cops would never get shoot because they would always be fast enough to shoot first when some one pulls a gun on them. think before you talk less guns is the only way all countries where guns are illigal dont have mass murder incidents.

 

GamerLegend10
GamerLegend10

 @RAD_RADIO  @RaveNRolla Most murders are not planned, its usually in the heat of the moment, given time a lot of people would calm down and rethink their actions.

 

If a gun is easily available then in that moment of blind anger they might use it, but most people wouldn't wait to get hold of an illegal weapon (not many people even know how to). The availability of illegal guns would also drop if gun bans were introduced.

 

Your argument about people defending themselves is ridiculous. People wouldn't need to have guns to defend themselves against other people with guns if there simply were no guns. Giving everyone guns is just adding fuel to the fire.

 

"No statistic or irrelevant data can counter that logic, you just can't." lol idk what to say to that, its just stupid.

Rat_King
Rat_King

 @RAD_RADIO  @RaveNRolla Actually RAD they did a study-simulation to act out that scenario. I believe they ran it 20 times, some cases had defenders with fake guns, or defenders with swords or hammers etc. For every single simulation, all 20 times, more damage was done to the school than to the assailants, most of the time the assailant still ended up shooting themselves. I liked the idea at first, but this was a very convincing study.

 

Point being it seems an ineffective way. I don't think there's much we can do other than stricter limits on gun sales. You'd think one thing a European would be able to understand is modern day laws rooted in historical societies. Most of the world knows NOTHING about America other than what they hear on the news, which is usually garbage about our government. The second amendment was put in place so citizens can defend themselves FROM their government, not each other. It made a lot of sense at the time and for many years after. However now things have spiraled out of control, and much of our constitution needs some revisioning.

 

So stop spewing your "stupid American" hate when your knowledge comes exclusively from BBC and/or Wikipedia. Talk to a few Americans sometime...preferably not GS members though, they're more spiteful and hate filled than most people around the world.

deathblow3
deathblow3

 @SweetPandaLove  @RaveNRolla problem is mass shootings are rarely done by criminals  they are done by law abiding people that have snapped. every mass shooting the last 30 years. so you are wrong colombine those kid didnt have a rap sheet neither did the sandy hook guy he was by all accounts a law abiding person till this. learn the facts then speak. gang bangers dont get guns and kill 40 people it has never happened.

 

GamerLegend10
GamerLegend10

 @SweetPandaLove  @RaveNRolla Its often those "law abiding citizens" that end up killing people. Putting guns into the hands of untrained idiots is not a way to make the world safer.

deathblow3
deathblow3

 @Noformation  @RaveNRolla at no formation umm knowledge to make explosives no guns no gun powder. and knives please people that use guns to kill people are cowards no way would they get close enough to take out a whole bunch of people with a knife it takes more thought and planning.

 

GamerLegend10
GamerLegend10

 @Noformation  @RaveNRollaWith a gun you could easily kill dozens of people, with a knife its not so easy and gives the victims a good chance to defend themselves.

 

Although its not difficult to make explosives not many people know how and most people would probably end up killing themselves trying.

 

You're right that guns are just the tools, but without these tools the person would not be so dangerous, by giving them guns you are putting many peoples lives at risk.

hinkwokching
hinkwokching

 @RaveNRolla @Noformation  I used to think that gun curb is not effective to control shooting incidents as well, however, just comparing the number of mess-shootings (just from reading the news, I haven't actually go and look at the stats) across the number of first-world countries seemed to suggest that the U.S. has the highest numbers.

 

There had been similar cases of mess-shooting in Australia too some years back, they introduced gun buyback scheme and eventually took out a lot of guns off the streets, and it seems to be effective as there hasn't been such cases for a long time now.

 

Do agree that the user is ultimately responsible and something should be done to the people that exhibit violent behaviours. But I think the real solution in the end is both gun curb and professional help for the violent-minded (didn't like the label, but for the lack of a better word...) are needed to reduce the overall number of violent crimes.

 

It is usually a difficult task to detect if someone is violent in nature because such behaviours may be hidden or a professional opinion is just not available everywhere. So the most immediate, and simplest way, to control shootings would almost certainly be a gun curb.

 

Sure, knifes, screw-drivers and pencils can kill too, but at least they have no possibility to kill at 60 rounds per minute and cannot hurt anyone more than 10 meters away.

Alexander327
Alexander327

 @Noformation  @RaveNRolla Well there will always be fucked up people everywhere.  But said fucked up people can do a lot more damage with a fully automatic assault rifle then using a knife.  Making an effective bomb requires a good amount of knowledge to do, like chemistry.  So why should we allow destructive tools be so readily available to people who just want to cause harm?   

Sheik2
Sheik2

 @RAD_RADIO There, @GamerLegend10  explains it very well. Don't think that all the world is like the US just because you live in the 1st economy and the 1st military power. There are other first world countries where this shit DOESN'T happend. And guess what: kids play all kind of videogames there too.

GamerLegend10
GamerLegend10

 @RAD_RADIO  @Sheik2 If You looked at other countries you would see that things can be done by the governments  to reduce gun crime.

 

"I'll tell you what happened, those kids weren't safe enough" the reason they weren't safe is because your country allows any idiot to own a gun, take that away and they would still be alive aswell as thousands of others who have died in similar cases.

 

"Besides who the hell cares who's responsible... at this point does that really matter?" the point of finding who is responsible is to learn from things like this and try to prevent it from happening again.

GamerLegend10
GamerLegend10

 @deathblow3  @Alexander327 What i meant was that people who play games are not going to suddenly feel compelled to pick up a gun and shoot a bunch of people.

 

Its true that often killing is glorified, and that the real emotions and horror of death is covered up within many games & films, but what the NRA is suggesting is that people are too stupid to see the difference between a piece of fiction and real life.

 

You cannot blame games for murders, its ridiculous. There are many factors that affect a persons mental state and play into such actions, parenting has a huge influence on each of our lives, then theres social life & relationships, work, traumatic experiences, perhaps just daily stress wearing a person down is enough, but all of these things and more should be looked into before pointing a finger at games.

 

The argument is that games desensitize people, that players will find blood, violence and death normal, which is just not true as many studies have shown. My personal experience with games also backs this up, i have played many violent games and watched many gory films yet i am not at all violent. If i see real life violence it sickens me, if i see someone hurt i want to help, if i see death it saddens me.

 

If anything games act as a stress relief and an escape from our problems as all forms of entertainment do.

GamerLegend10
GamerLegend10

 @RAD_RADIO  @deathblow3  @RaveNRolla 

 

You want to place guns inside of schools? wow dont be ridiculous, you really think that would be safe?

 

So what if next time its the principle or teacher that loses it? teachers often break down (happened plenty of times when i was in school) the job is very stressful.

 

Besides even in the situation you described there would be a high risk of the principle injuring or killing someone else, either by missing (the bullet could easy hit someone behind, or go through a wall or ricochet) and also if he was moving around the school looking for the guy he might accidentally shoot a pupil or teacher who surprises him by running around the corner (it wouldn't be easy to see who is who in all the panic, and when you're on edge like that mistakes are easily made). Also you assume the gun would be readily available for the principle to pick up and start firing straight away in defense, but if there was to be a gun inside a school then for safety reasons it would need to be locked up and ammo stored separately, so by the time the principle got it out and loaded he would probably already be dead.

 

Now on to illegal firearms, most illegal guns started as legally made ones, others (very few) are homemade but vastly inferior to the real thing, and some are deactivated guns which have had the barrels drilled out, but these are again not as good as just getting a stolen gun. Oh and in some countries illegal guns are smuggled in from elsewhere, but the US has so many i doubt this happens, in fact you have so many you smuggle them out to other countries, nearly all guns in Mexico come from the USA. Though i dont know why we are talking about this as most of these shootings are from legally owned guns.

 

Anyway you're right that it would probably take decades to destroy most illegal guns, i never said it would be easy and im not so naive to think that all illegal guns can be gotten rid of, but if its possible to get rid of most then it would be worth it as the result would be a far safer country.

 

"As far as people just "in the heat of the moment" committing mass murder... it's so incredibly rare" Actually this is how most murders are committed, very few are planned. And mass murders are not usually done by criminals (not sure why you have been talking about criminals so much) but by ordinary people who have lost it. Criminals have no motive to shoot up schools.

 

You talk about logic yet you dont show any, all of your arguments are flawed. Obviously you love guns as you will say anything to defend your "right" to own them. Its fine to like guns, but lives are more important.

RAD_RADIO
RAD_RADIO

 @deathblow3  @GamerLegend10  @RaveNRolla I clearly have not gotten through to any of you, and you continue to avoid the logic behind my arguments.FACT: The principle of the school WAS able to physically tackle the assailant, shortly after being shot and killed.STRONG LIKELIHOOD: Had the principle of the school (having been able to physically tackle the assailant) had ANY sort of weapon that could inflict deadly force, there is an astonishing chance they could have prevented this atrocity.You all clearly have absolutely no clue how illegal fire arms are produced and or acquired. True, many of them are stolen and resold underground illegally, however there are many types of fire arms that can be illegally produced. My point is, legal weapons manufacturers are not the only ones that can manufacture fire arms (or weapons/explosives for that matter), some can and are hand made with the proper tools.You somehow believe that some magic law of the land banning the production and sale of certain types of fire arms is suddenly going to strip the guns from criminals, which even if it were effective (it would not be) it would literally take decades to track down and destroy those weapons, that IS provided the government is able to halt ANY AND ALL gun manufacturing (legal and illegal). You're simply living in a dream land if you believe that something can be done to keep weapons out of the hands of dangerous people.As far as people just "in the heat of the moment" committing mass murder... it's so incredibly rare, from a moderately utilitarian prospective, even if gun laws could magically mitigate (much less, prevent) these things from happening, it would not be worth the loss of law abiding people's freedoms to protect themselves and their families HOWEVER they see fit. Seeing as the non-existence of fire arms would not stop being from trying to infringe on other people's lives and property. Wait... you mean people actually committed murder BEFORE guns were invented? Riddle me that batman.I'm not assuming anyone would do anything, that's exactly what sets my argument aside from most anti-gun nuts, they assume so much. They assume that criminals abide by gun laws, they assume that people are irresponsible.Even if the outcome ended up the exact same amount of people dead/injured, with the principles and or teachers armed, I would still say having them armed was a better situation, as at least they had a fighting chance. Why on earth you would be against leveling the playing field in favor just seems idiotic to me.Quote me about my logical argument, and admitting you don't know what to say to it, further illustrates that you can't argue with sound logic. You're arguments simply have no logic.

deathblow3
deathblow3

 @GamerLegend10  @RAD_RADIO  @RaveNRolla

  also illegal guns are legal guns that have been stolen.  so the fact that they will disappear is a true statement. what makes a gun illegal is that it is not registered to the person that has it in his possession. i.e. has been stolen from the owner.

allan308
allan308

 @Rat_King  @RAD_RADIO  @RaveNRolla 

The thing is when a shooting is going on, people are going to die.  If someone has a gun who knows maybe some other people can escape, maybe they can kill the assailant, and maybe the good guy with the gun will do more harm.  But in the end people are going to die, and I would rather have a gun and never have to use it than to never have a gun and need it.  It's risk reward.

GamerLegend10
GamerLegend10

 @RAD_RADIO  @Sheik2 school shooting in particular are extremely rare anywhere else in the world, but common in the US.

 

You cant hide it, you cant pretend all is ok, you need to face up to it & do something about it.

 

And stop crying about your "freedoms" all the time its stupid, these kids have a right to their lives, thats far more important than your silly gun rights which you will go to the end of the earth to defend.

GamerLegend10
GamerLegend10

 @RAD_RADIO   Just look at the number of mass shooting & school shooting in the US compared to the rest of the world, its crazy, then look at the number of guns per person you have compared to other countries...do you see the obvious link??

RAD_RADIO
RAD_RADIO

 @GamerLegend10  @Sheik2 I take that back, when 0.00000003% of a population brakes a law, there's no reason to make that law even more strict for the 99.99999997%

RAD_RADIO
RAD_RADIO

 @GamerLegend10  @Sheik2 We've already learned how to prevent it again, allow people to defend themselves."...your country allows any idiot to own a gun" ... now you're just talking out of your ass.You people love to get emotional and over analyze things, almost seeming to ignore statistics. Fact is, in almost every country around the world (mass shootings are not exclusive to the US) you're more likely to be struck by lightning or eaten by a  shark then to die in a mass shooting. Another interesting statistic is that even though guns and weapons technology and the availability of weapons has increased exponentially, mass murders still have not even come close to the peak they hit in the early 1900's.One of the most recent and deadly mass shootings happened in Norway, with some of the most stringent gun laws in any free country in the world.To sheik2, there is virtually no country in the free world as we know it where a mass murder hasn't happened, it happens everywhere.To add, when 0.001% of a given population does something wrong, there is absolutely no reason to pass legislation to prevent that, that infringes on the rights of the 99.999%, especially when there is zero evidence that it would actually help in preventing a purely individual social issue.