Thief delays support for AMD’s “groundbreaking” Mantle API days before launch

Thief will not support AMD’s Mantle API at launch, patch set for March.

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Just a few days before it releases Thief, developer Eidos Montreal has announced that the PC version of the game will not support AMD’s “groundbreaking” Mantle graphics API.

Mantle is AMD’s alternative to Microsoft’s DirectX, which aims to greatly improve graphical performance on compatible games and AMD Radeon graphics cards. Thief was going to be one of the first games to take advantage of it.

“We’re extremely proud of the work we've done with AMD to make the PC version of Thief a stand-out, definitive experience although we have a little more work to do to accommodate all of these new PC-specific features,” Eidos Montreal said on its website.

The company said it’s working on a patch to support AMD’s Mantle and TrueAudio, which improves audio with certain AMD Radeon GPUs.

The patch is scheduled to release in March. If you own an AMD Radeon card that supports Mantle, you’ll still be able to run Thief, just without the promised performance boost.

“We’re confident this patch will ensure the best and fastest Thief experience for AMD Radeon customers," Eidos Montreal said. "We’re sorry we couldn't bring this to you sooner – although we will use this time to bring you the very best experience possible and will let you know when the patch is ready.”

Star Citizen, Sniper Elite 3, and Battlefield 4 are some of the few games that support Mantle. “It is a major change and improvement to how we are able to program and use modern GPUs in order to get the most out of them," DICE technical director Johan Andersson said.

"Battlefield 4 on PC is already quite heavily optimized using DirectX 11 and DirectX 11.1, but with Mantle we are able to go even further: we've significantly reduced CPU cost in our rendering, efficiently parallelized it over multiple CPU cores and reduced overhead in many areas."

The game's art technical director Jean-Normand Bucci previously said that Thief will look better on the PC than on the Xbox One or PlayStation 4. He explained that while Thief for the new systems from Microsoft and Sony will deliver "much more" than what console gamers have come to expect, the PC version will go even further.

You can read Thief’s revised PC system requirements on Eidos Montreal’s website.

Discussion

205 comments
xantufrog
xantufrog

Gave mantle a try today on Thief with a Phenom II X4 BE processor and R7 260X OC card - massive improvements in my benchmarks over DX11. Very pleased

quickshooterMk2
quickshooterMk2

still waiting for a good sale on this game 

this game doesn't look like 50$ worthy 


maybe 25$ 

hal2k
hal2k

So we're trying to minimize CPU usage; a resource that is not in demand on the computer, while at the same time pushing the world back to card or brand dependent graphics APIs.  Awesome.  Why would anyone think we need a competitor to DirectX or OpenGL that no other major company besides AMD will ever support...

ZeroFallout1
ZeroFallout1

Frickin bit coin miners driving up the price on AMD cards. If not for a friend I would've spent and arm and leg on my r9 290 non reference model. Glad more games are getting optimize for And cards. Maybe we can get Nvidia to start lowering their price.

smillz999
smillz999

shouldn't they have just delayed the pc version? or the launch altogether?

santinegrete
santinegrete

no rush, I still haven't unpacked my R260X, wich is going to replace the N560GTX. It maybe not be a big jump, and arguably it's not a good call, but this two years with the card taught me that Nvidia may be worth for the brute force, but it ungers on everything else so much, silence included. Gonna miss how the sound of the cooler mixes with the sound of driving in Farcry 3.

Tommi88
Tommi88

Thief on ps4: 1080p, 10fps. LOL

istuffedsunny
istuffedsunny

Can't wait for Mantle to take off. My latest GPU is from Nvidia but I'm never supporting them again. It's loud, hot, and the drivers suck.

pcmusturdrace
pcmusturdrace

This just shows how mantle is going to need some serious help.

lionheart051
lionheart051

Nvida fanboys really crack me up, they pay 300+dollars more for a amd equivalent gpu that runs hotter, consumes more power and then gloat and brag about their 2-3 fps increase over the amd card. They remind me of retarded xbox one and apple/iPhone fanboys.

Phatetic really lol.

Hakkology
Hakkology

Guys is this game good ?

I heard more news of its "incapabilities" compared to its "state" as a game.

I would be really pissed if Eidos managed to screw up one of the best franchises i have ever played.

faizanhd
faizanhd

I think we really need a good alternative to Direct X to stop Microsofts monopoly with their crappy OS. One day...................one day.

DarkSaber2k
DarkSaber2k

Good, Mantle is just ATIs desperate attempt to force people over to using their inferior graphics cards anyway.

TehUndeadHorror
TehUndeadHorror

Oh wow, never even heard of Mantle. We've been stuck with DirectX and OpenGL for so long. Any chance Gamespot will write an article about it?

bloody-hell
bloody-hell

The Mantle API won't save this game though, besides, if it runs on Consoles it most definitely runs better on PC anyways unless the developers simply half-heartedly port it over. (or one tries to play it on a 8+ year old PC)

Saw the gameplay videos - 5 hour linear walkthrough with absolutely braindead guard AI, filled with cutscenes and illogical NPC behavior.

Might pick it up for 5 EUR in a Steam sale though because it doesn't have extra DRM and maybe it's playable or at least mod-able by then. (that's all I can give them for doing such a piss poor job with the Thief franchise)

They could just skip Mantle all together and bring it to OpenGL / Linux instead to be SteamOS ready.

squall_83
squall_83

@hal2k Mantle is not brand dependent. ATI is just the first to implement it. It will work fine with GeForce and Intel chips if they choose to adopt the tech.

bwat47
bwat47

@hal2k  Mantle can result in very significant increases even when you have a reasonably powerful CPU. The main benefit of mantle is significantly higher minimum FPS, amd much more consistant FPS (less drops). This results in a much smoother experience. For example I have an i5-2500 @ 3.8ghz and an amd 280x. When playing BF4 in dx11.1 mode I consistantly get annoying drops to 40-50 fps on maps like seige of shanghai and hanai resort. When playing in mantle mode these drops are gone, and my minimum fps on these maps is *doubled*. Playing BF4 with mantle gave me far better performance than dx11.1. Mantle's performance benefits are real, and cpu performance *is* important. People need to stop spreading such nonsense fud like 'cpu performance doesn't matter' or 'mantle only benefits low end apu's etc... even with an intel quad core mantle can give a very good performance boost.


Here's some screenshots of my bf4 performance on a spot in seige of shanghai where I always get a huge fps drop in dx11:


DX11: http://s22.postimg.org/y0j8o86v3/Screenshot_Win32_0004.png [s12.postimg.org]


Mantle: http://s22.postimg.org/qlyi9ladb/Screenshot_Win32_0005.png [s23.postimg.org]


As you can see, the FPS is double in mantle. And if I look at the task manager and gpuz when I'm in this spot, in the dx11 screenshot gpu usage is significantly lower (drops to 60-70%) and cpu usage is around ~80% on all four cores with occasional 'spikes' to %100. With mantle the cpu is pegged at 95-100% consistently on all four cores, and gpu usage is consistently at ~99%. Mantle clearly makes more efficient use of the hardware, and this is a *good* thing.


Even if all mantle does is push DX and OpenGL in the right direction then it will be good for the industry. Its clear that directx has been hampering performance and efficiency significantly.

sh4rkill3r
sh4rkill3r

@hal2k  opengl is open source. mantle is going to.

directx is shit, even the first version of mantle has better result, imagine a few version later.

mantle is a low level api that talk better than opengl or dx to the hardware. the future is mantle

xantufrog
xantufrog

@santinegrete I'm very happy with my MSI R7 260x. Quiet and very fast (for the price range). I actually tried an XFX first with the tiny-ass reference style cooler and it sounded like a jet turbine. If that's the type you bought I would return before opening. Get one with a good aftermarket cooler like the MSI (single large "propeller blade" fan). Never exceeds 60c in my case while gaming and is very quiet.


I look forward to doing some before and after benchmarking with Thief and Mantle. I'm running an "old" Phenom X4 so there may be gains to be had with Mantle.

xantufrog
xantufrog

@Tommi88 This is your favorite troll comment. Thanks for sharing (again)

dannydopamine28
dannydopamine28

@istuffedsunny Thats funny you say that.. i've always been a die hard nvidia fan (my last four pc's were nvidia) and once i returned my gtx 670 for a radeon 7950 i was blown away.. Even games that had the same fps just felt so much smoother on the radeon card. And ALL older games worked perfectly with the radeon card. It seemed like nvidia i would have to adjust something or change something to get it to work with EVERY old game.. The nvidia would have uneven framerates, screen tearing, strange jerking.. The radeon is just night and day better a smoother and more stable card all around..

koBe_zero
koBe_zero

@istuffedsunny  I love my Crossfired 290X's, but they ran hotter than Mt. Doom before I put them under water.

iMpLuX
iMpLuX

@pcmusturdrace Needing to reassure yourself after overspending on an overpriced space heater?

ogger151
ogger151

@lionheart051 Isn't the Xbox one AMD?  I have always had Nvidia but am ready to try AMD I like what I have heard about Mantle and that Amd is DirectX 11.2 My Nvidia has overheating issues. You have to use the evga fan utilty because if you do not the fan speed will not increase. So I blame evga for this. Both Amd and Nvidia have cards that overheat. Next time I will pick one that has more than one fan. My card a Superclocked GTX670 4BG DDR5. I am going to wait a while for a new one probably AMD.

SpicaAntares
SpicaAntares

@lionheart051

What cracks me up is when people spend fortunes on processors and video cards for differences in performance that cannot be subjectively observed and in which they need special software to observe those differences.

pcmusturdrace
pcmusturdrace

@lionheart051  300+$? 
Are you on crack? More power and heat? 
God you are fucking retarded. 
The 290x proves every single on of your statements wrong. Pleb

uchihasilver
uchihasilver

@lionheart051  i dont buy nvidia for the 2 - 3 fps increase i buy them because i have never had an issue with a single nvidia card, although i have also never used AMD but as people say "if it aint broke don't fix it".


But i ask you this, If you don't like these fanboys why is it you sound butthurt about the fact people like Xbox One and Nvidia O.o seems kind of hypocritical doesn't it?

SpicaAntares
SpicaAntares

@Hakkology

When you get to a certain age and played many games you'll never get that WOW feeling you had with the first games that impressed you, whatever games it was. You have to accept that and move on. You'll always keep found memories of them even if you couldn't play them today being as outdated as they are. Pretty much like the first love of your life. May not be the one that mattered the most but was the one that made you saw things differently forever.

That said I played many since the beginning of PCs and the last one who really impressed me on all levels was Red Dead Redemption. But between older games like Deus Ex, Thief, etc. and Red Dead Redemption there weren't many that I considered masterpieces, although I enjoyed many. Still I keep enjoying newer games.

bloody-hell
bloody-hell

@HakkologyYou should decide for yourself, but from what I've seen and read - no, it's not.

Here's a ArsTechnica review that's just been published : http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/02/review-thief-reboot-should-have-stayed-hidden/

If the developers have at least half a brain, they'll allow modding so at least the community can save this fiasco.


If you value your love for the Thief franchise, save yourself the trouble and just buy / replay the "Thief Gold" edition you can pick up for 10 USD on GoG or play "The Dark Mod" which is a free Doom Engine mod / total conversion. (or buy / play Dishonored instead)

MadKeloo
MadKeloo

@Hakkology Meaning ? Well it's definitely not going to be a remake of the first game that's for sure. If you expect it to be exactly like the older games you'll probably end up disappointed. But hey you can always replay the older games if you don't like this one. It's not like this one is erasing the older games.

uchihasilver
uchihasilver

@faizanhd  steam OS and OpenGL my friend =P hopefull they make steam OS into a fully fledged OS that would be awesome then i can finally get rid of windows 

Talavaj
Talavaj

@DarkSaber2k They don't need to force anybody, anybody with a grain of brain would pick a card with lower noise, heat and power consumption levels for 40% cheaper even if it was 5% slower than the overpriced alternative, which it is only because of developers deliberately nerfing the performance on AMD cards because of "the way it's meant to be played" BS.

lionheart051
lionheart051

U mad nvidia fannie? Y u mad bro? All nvida cards do is burn a whole through your mother board loI.

ramyland
ramyland

@bloody-hell i know linear , bad ai , small levels.....but i preordered because it is only 24 $ in Romania !

c0deman057
c0deman057

@iMpLuX @pcmusturdrace lol i just bought an nvidia gtx770, a month later the mantle patch for bf4 came out and I learned about this "Mantle" API, Now I wished I got an ATI, Not cryin though the shit looks sweet with the gtx770.  I really think that the Mantle API is key to the Steambox's future.  As for the Steambox, "ah No Thanks, I already got one" 

santinegrete
santinegrete

@SpicaAntares @lionheart051 makes me wonder if the dudes benching the 1000 barrel level on Crysis actually enjoyed the game enough to bitch about how Mario Galaxy got the GoTY award..

c0deman057
c0deman057

@SpicaAntares @lionheart051As a kid I had a pretty crappy computer with low frame rates on low settings on any game.   Now I'm older and able to dish out the cash on my hobby, I notice every bit of the difference smooth frame rate and high settings make. Your confident opinion proves you are blind. Go check your vision.  Anyone else hate when VSYNC drops framerate from 60fps to 45fps? I notice and it affects my quick thinking gaming skills when i see it and has cost me more than a life or two in BF4. You dont need software to observe it.

McGregor
McGregor

@SpicaAntares @lionheart051  Exactly why I bought an AMD chip instead of Intel...That was an actual $300 difference (motherboard and processor price difference). As for the AMD video card I have...I bought it because it came with free games that I was planning on purchasing anyway, which helped me justify buying a card that was a few steps above what I was going to purchase. It did happen to be about $50 less than the equivalent Nvidia card, and according to real life tests, got an average of about 1-2 fps higher than the Nvidia. I'd buy an Nvidia card if the price were right and the reviews were good. I have no brand loyalty when it comes to this stuff. Same goes with Intel and AMD processors. I just want the best gaming rig for the money, and not have to spend thousands of dollars.

radu8982
radu8982

@uchihasilver  My first card was Nvidia FX5500,after three months of use it got smoked and blew up my monitor to i am not joking since then i am going with AMD my cards have been ATI 9550/ HD2600XT /HD6670 /

HD6970 and now R9 270x ,for me Nvidia equals zero.

McGregor
McGregor

@SpicaAntares @Hakkology  Nothing will ever equal the way I felt when playing FF II, III, and VII for the first time. And to this day, Zelda: A link to the past is the best game I've ever played...but I had a hard time replaying it when trying to get some of that Nostalgia back. What I would give to have the SNES/PS1 days back.

McGregor
McGregor

@uchihasilver @Talavaj @DarkSaber2k  My AMD card gets to about 65c while playing a game...not sure if that is hotter than an Nvidia card or not...The fans kick in and I can hear them, but it's not so loud that it's an issue. Same goes for my processor and case fans...I guess another reason I don't hear them because I wear a headset.

MadKeloo
MadKeloo

@ramyland Singurul joc pe care am dat 200 de lei(sau aproape) a fost SC2, in rest mai mult de 100 nu prea dau pe ele. E alegerea ta, oricum pare interesant, n-am fost fan Thief, cu toate ca am jucat Deadly Shadows acum 10 ani si mi-a placut mult. Imi plac jocurile stealth, asa ca nu cred ca-i intr-atat de prost precum spun unii. Human Revolution a fost destul de bun, nu prea te poti lua dupa niste clipuri de pe youtube, care au fost jucate pe easy/normal probabil.

ramyland
ramyland

@MadKeloo @ramyland@Printul_Noptii la banii astia imi convine sa cumpar daca era 2 milioane ca alte porcarii de jocuri sigur anulam !

ramyland
ramyland

@Printul_Noptii @ramyland e ieftin pt ca noi avem o sora a companiei Ubisoft ( toate jocurile ubisoft sunt ieftine ex  assassins creed 4 black flag ) in Romania !

Printul_Noptii
Printul_Noptii

@ramyland  am facut si eu acuma pre-comanda pe altex, costa 86RON cu costurile de cureriar. Are Bank Heist DLC si e in cutie pe disc :D Comparat cu 44 Euro de pe Steam asta e un real steal :))))

ramyland
ramyland

@Printul_Noptii @MadKeloo@ramyland da are bank heist , da nu stiu dace primesc cod steam inaite de 28 pe mail pt activare inainte sau retail box dupa 28 !