Feature Article

The Past, Present, and Future of the CPU, According to Intel and AMD

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Power trip.

Ten years ago, if you were to buy the best CPU for gaming or otherwise, you'd have chosen AMD's Athlon 64. My, how times have changed. While AMD has struggled to rekindle its glory days as the CPU-performance leader, Intel's CPUs have gone from strength to strength over the past decade. Today, Intel's CPUs perform best, and use the least amount of power, scaling admirably from powerhouse gaming PCs all the way down to thin and light notebooks and tablets--segments that didn't even exist a decade ago. But this return to CPU dominance might never have happened had it not been for the innovations taking place at AMD back in the early half of the 2000s, which makes the company's fall from grace all the more galling.

The 64-bit extensions of AMD's Athlon 64 meant it could run 64-bit operating systems, which could address more than 4GB of RAM, while still being able to run 32-bit games and applications at full speed--all important considerations for PC players at the time. These extensions proved so successful that Intel eventually ended up licensing them for its own compatible x86-64 implementation. Two years after the launch of the Athlon 64, AMD introduced the Athlon 62 X2, the first consumer multicore processor. Its impact on today's CPUs cannot be overstated: everything from huge gaming rigs to tiny mobile phones now use CPUs with two or more cores. It's a change that even Intel's Gaming Ecosystem Director, Randy Stude, cited when I asked him what had the biggest impact on CPU design over the last decade.

Cores

AMD's Athlon 64 kickstarted the 64-bit revolution. Image credit: flickr.com/naukim
AMD's Athlon 64 kickstarted the 64-bit revolution. Image credit: flickr.com/naukim

"So, the answer to the question is cores," Stude tells me. "I was here at Intel through the Pentium IV days. We hit a heat issue with that part and took a big right turn and introduced a very efficient product out of Israel [the Core CPU] that helped us take over performance leadership that--for the most part--we've enjoyed for the better part of a decade. We've been able to add cores quite efficiently, and that's led to some substantial performance gains for the PC in general."

This focus on cores has dominated the last decade of CPU development. Prior to the introduction of multicore CPUs, the focus was very much on increasing clock speeds. This gave games and applications an instant performance boost, with very little effort required from developers to take advantage of it. Moore's Law--which states that the number of transistors in a dense integrated circuit would double around every two years--was in full swing in the 90s and early 2000s. In the period from 1994 to 1998, CPU clock speeds rose by a massive 300 per cent. However, by the mid 2000s, power consumption and clock speed improvements collapsed, with both Intel and AMD fighting the laws of physics. The solution was to introduce more cores, so that multiple tasks could be executed simultaneously by individual CPUs, thus increasing performance.

The trouble is, unlike increasing clock speed, increasing the number of cores requires developers to change the way their code is written in order to see a performance increase. And, in the case of games development, that's been a slow process.

Games like Battlefield 4 that make use of multiple CPU cores are still the exception, rather than the rule.
Games like Battlefield 4 that make use of multiple CPU cores are still the exception, rather than the rule.

"[Multicore CPUs] have required that the software industry come along with us and understand the notion of threading," says Stude. "For gaming, it's been challenging. Threading on gaming is a much more difficult scenario that both us and AMD have experienced. In general, you've got one massive workload thread for everything, and up until now that's been handled by, let's say, the zero core. The rest of the workload, whatever it might be for a particular game, goes off to the other cores. Today, game engine success is a bit hit and miss. You have some games, the typical console games that come over, that don't really push performance at all, and isn't threaded or lightly threaded."

"[Multicore CPUs] have required that the software industry come along with us and understand the notion of threading. For gaming, it's been challenging." - Intel

"The nature of development work for those platforms, especially in the early years, is that you'd get your game running and publish it and you'd rely heavily on the game engines that you as a publisher own, or that you acquire from third parties like Crytek and Epic," Stude continued. "If Epic and its Unreal engine on console don't have a threaded graphics pipeline--which to date they don't--then you're looking at the same issue that you see on the PC, which is a heavily emphasised single-core performance workload, and then everything else that happens like physics and AI happens on the other cores. It's not a completely balanced scenario, because by far the biggest workload is that render pipeline."

The problem has been more pronounced for AMD. Its Bulldozer CPU architecture (which all of its recent processors are based on modified versions of) tried to both ramp up clock speeds by lengthening the CPU’s pipeline, increasing latency (an approach not too dissimilar to the disastrous Prescott Pentium 4 from Intel), and by increasing the number of cores by sharing resources like the scheduler and floating point unit, rather than by duplicating them like in a standard multicore CPU. Unfortunately for AMD, Bulldozer's high power consumption meant that clock speeds were limited, leaving the CPU dependent on software that made use of those multiple cores to reach acceptable performance. I asked Richard Huddy, AMD's Gaming Scientist and former Intel and Nvidia employee, whether chasing more cores was the right decision. After all, to this day, Intel's Core series of CPUs consistently outperform AMD's.

"So if you talk to games programmers--there are other markets as well--they have typically found it easy to share their work over two, four cores," says AMD's Huddy. People have changed the way they program for multi-core stuff recently over the last five years to cope with six-eight cores. They understand this number is the kind of thing they need to target. It's actually genuinely difficult to build work-maps of the kind of tasks you have with games to run on something 32 cores or more efficiently."

AMD's Richard Huddy had a hand in creating Direct X, as well as stints at ATI, Intel, and Nvidia.
AMD's Richard Huddy had a hand in creating Direct X, as well as stints at ATI, Intel, and Nvidia.

"The more cores you have, the harder it gets, so there is a practical limit," continued Huddy. "If we produced 1000-core CPUs then people would find it very hard to drive those efficiently. You'll end up with a lot of idle cores at times and it's difficult. From a programmer's point of view it's super-easy to drive one core. So yeah, if we could produce a 100 GHz single-core processor, we'd have a fantastic machine on our hands. But it's mighty difficult to clock up silicon that fast, as we're up against physical laws here, which make it very difficult. There's only so much you can do that ignores the real world, and in the end you need to help programmers understand the kind of constraints they're building to."

"I'd love for us to build a single-core CPU. Truth is, if you built a single-core CPU, that just took all of the power of the CPU and scaled up in the right kind of way, then no programmer would find it difficult to program, but we have to deal with the real world."

The Death of Moore's Law?

The real world is Moore's Law, or rather, the end of it. The death of Moore's Law has been talked about on and off for years, and yet Intel and AMD have continued to see significant performance boosts across their CPU lines. But the upcoming launch of Intel's Broadwell architecture and its die shrink from 22nm to 14nm has seen several delays, prompting many to call out the death of Moore's Law once again. Certainly, both companies face a number of technical challenges when working at such small manufacturing processes. Intel, for example, developed its 3D Tri-Gate transistor technology--which essentially allows three times the surface area for electrons to travel--to deal with current leakage at 22nm and beyond.

"For the last decade--which is a strong portion of our existence, the dominant decade in terms of our revenues and unit sales--we were told Moore's law was dead and that the physics wouldn't allow us to continue to make those advances, and we've proven everyone wrong," says Intel's Stude. "I'm a futurist as a hobby, and I've learned a lot being at Intel. The day I started we had introduced the Pentium and even then the conversation was about what was possible from a die shrink perspective. I'm not ever going to believe in my mind that the pace of innovation will outstrip the human brain."

"I just don't subscribe the concept that there isn't a better way. I think that evidence of the last 50 years would argue that we've got a long way to go on silicon engineering. What we think is possible may completely be eclipsed tomorrow if we find a new element or a new process that would just flip everything on its head. I'm not going to play the Moore's Law is dead game, because I don't think it will be dead. Maybe the timeline slows down, but I just can't subscribe it dying based on what I've seen at my time at Intel."

Intel's
Intel's "tick-tock" strategy has helped the company stick to Moore's Law, but how just long can it last?

AMD's Huddy shares a similar viewpoint: "Moore's Law looks alive and well, doesn't it? It's always five years from dying. For all practical purposes, I expect us to live on something very much like Moore's Law up until 2020. Our biggest problem is feeding the beast, it's getting memory bandwidth into these designs. I want the manufacturers of DRAM to just keep up with us, and give us not only the higher density--and they do a spectacular job of giving us more memory--but also make that memory work faster. That's a real problem, and if we could just get a lot of super fast memory and not pay the price of that wretched real world physics that gets in the way all the time. I blame them, it's all down to DRAM!"

Better Integrated Graphics

While cores have dominated CPU development over the last decade, both AMD and Intel have made great strides in bringing other parts of a system onto the CPU to improve performance and decrease system size, most notably with graphics. Until recently, Intel's integrated graphics were considered a poor choice for gaming, with performance that was only really good for rendering the 2D visuals of an operating system, rather than sophisticated 3D graphics. But this has changed of late. While Intel's Iris Pro integrated graphics can't compete with a separate GPU, they are able to run many games at acceptable frame rates and resolutions. There have even been some neat small-form-factor gaming systems designed around Iris Pro, such as Gigabyte's Brix Pro.

But when it comes to integrated graphics, AMD is far and away the performance leader. The company's purchase of ATI in 2004--despite some integration issues at the time--has given the company quite the performance lead; AMD's APU range of CPUs with built-in Radeon graphics are the best choice for building a small gaming PC without a discrete GPU. It might be just a small win for the company on the CPU side, but it's one that has had a significant impact on the company's focus.

"We took a decision 18 months ago to focus heavily on graphics IP," says Darren Grasby, AMD's VP of EMEA. "Driving the APU first, first with Llano, and fast forward to where we are today with Kaveri. Kaveri is the most complex APU ever built, and if you look at the graphics performance within that, you're not going to get the high-end gamers with that. But if you look at mainstream and even performance gaming, an A10 Kaveri is your product to get in there. And you don't have to go spend $1500 or $2000 dollars on a very high-spec gaming rig, that quite frankly, a mainstream or performance gamer isn't going to be using to its full capability."

"If you think about it from a gaming aspect, what are gamers looking for? They're looking for the compute power from the graphics card. The CPU almost becomes secondary to it in my mind." - AMD

"So you're right on the ‘halo effect’ on the CPU side," continued Grasby. "Obviously we can't talk about forward-looking roadmaps, but it's leaning into where the graphics IP is, and where that broader market is, and where the real revenue opportunities sit within that. That's why, if you look at Kaveri, if you look at the mass market and gaming market you're getting right up there. Then you start to get into 295 X2, and then you're talking about where the gamers are. If you think about it from a gaming aspect, what are gamers looking for? They're looking for the compute power from the graphics card. The CPU almost becomes secondary to it in my mind."

The Growing Threat of ARM and Mobile

While Intel continues to lead on pure CPU performance and AMD leads on integrated graphics, both companies have stumbled when it comes to mobile, which is problem as PC sales continue to decline. All-in-one system on a chip designs based on designs from the UK's ARM Holdings power the vast majority of the world's mobile devices--and that doesn't just mean cellphones and tablets; Sony's PlayStation Vita is built on a quad-core ARM chip. Intel has tried to stay the course with X86, creating the Atom line of processors specifically for low-power devices like phones and tablets. They haven't exactly set the world on fire, though. Intel's Mobile and Communications group lost over $900 million earlier this year.

AMD, meanwhile, took a different path and signed an ARM license to begin developing its own ARM processors. The question is--with the vast majority of the company's experience being in X86 architecture--why?

Phones and tablets like the Nvidia Shield mostly make use of ARM processors, rather than the traditional X86-based designs that AMD and Intel produce.
Phones and tablets like the Nvidia Shield mostly make use of ARM processors, rather than the traditional X86-based designs that AMD and Intel produce.

"Did you see Intel's earning results yesterday? [Note: this interview took place on July 17, 2014] Just go and have a look at their losses on mobile division," says AMD's Grasby. "I would suggest at some stage their shareholders are going to have a challenge around it. I can’t remember the exact number, it’s on public record, but I think it was 1.1 billion dollars they lost on 80 million dollars of turnover. Our clients suggest that isn’t the best strategy. I encourage them to keep doing it, because if they keep losing that amount of money, it’s definitely not good...the primary reason why we signed the ARM license was because two years ago we bought a company called SeaMicro. We were basically after its Freedom Fabric [storage servers], and that’s why we signed the ARM licence, to go after that dense, power server opportunity that’s out there. It’s a huge opportunity."

"As soon as we got the ARM 64-bit license, other opportunities opened up on the side. Think embedded, for example. Embedded from an AMD perspective had always been an X86 Play. Just to give you an idea, ARM and X86 are a nine to ten billion dollar business. Take ARM out of that it comes to around four to five billion dollars. It’s to exercise the opportunity."

PC Market Decline

Despite AMD's efforts, though, its ARM strategy and planned turnaround hasn't gone entirely to plan. The company posted a $36 million net loss in its recent financials, and predicted that its games console business to Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo--which, to date, has been one of its biggest successes--would peak in September. Shares plummeted by 18 percent after the announcement. The still declining PC market means both Intel and AMD are looking for ways to expand beyond the desktop, but the companies maintain that their CPU lineups, and in particular their CPUs aimed at gamers and overclockers, remain an important part of what they do.

Despite a decline in recent years, overclocking is still alive and well.
Despite a decline in recent years, overclocking is still alive and well.

"The overclocker market certainly is relevant," says Intel's Stude. "Every time we come out with a part there's a fraction of a fraction of people that are the utmost enthusiasts. They care about every last aspect of that processor and they want to want to push it to the limits. They are tinkerers, they don't mind buying a handful of processors to blow 'em up just to see what they can do, and to make their own living, be it working in Taiwan for the ODMs who make motherboards, or be it in other capacities in the media to submit their opinions on Intel's top end parts."

"We love the boutique nature of it," continued Stude, "because the people in that seat typically have very interesting compute perspectives that influence the decisions that others make. So, if you're very overclockable, you have a very influential position...so we do the best we can to feed this community our best story and we'll continue to that."

While there's no doubt AMD CPUs offer excellent value for money (we used one to great effect in our budget PC build), they still lag behind Intel when it comes to outright performance and performance per watt; to stay in the PC market, AMD has a much tougher job ahead of it then its rival.

"From an engineering perspective, performance per watt becomes the limiting factor in a lot of situations so there's no doubt that we need to do a better job," says AMD"s Huddy. "It's very clear that Intel and Nvidia, and everyone that competes in the silicon market has to be more aware of this. If you go back 10 and in particular 20 years ago, performance per watt, wasn't a big issue, but it increasingly is, and we aim to do better. I have absolutely no doubt about that. There's a lot of attention being paid to that. There are limits over how much we control our own destiny, but particularly for us where we use companies such as TSMC as others do, then those companies work with the same constraints as us and we should be able to just match them."

"From an engineering perspective, performance per watt becomes the limiting factor in a lot of situations so there's no doubt that we need to do a better job." - AMD

AMD Bets On Mantle

The future for AMD may lie in more than just hardware too. Mantle--its competitor API to OpenGL and Direct X--allows console-like low-level access to the CPU and GPU, and it's clear from speaking to the company that it has a lot of hopes pinned on the technology, even if Microsoft's upcoming Direct X 12 promises to do something very similar.

"It's very clear people have seen there's an artificial limitation that really needs to be fixed, and it's not just about giving you more gigahertz on your CPU," says AMD's Huddy. "We can be extremely proud of Mantle, getting the CPU out of the way when there was an artificial bottleneck. There's no doubt that people will use the extra CPU horsepower for good stuff, and we're seeing that in the demos that we're already able to show. However, let's not get hung up on gigahertz, sometimes it's smarts that get you there, and if you're looking for the fastest throughput API on the planet, then you'd have to say it is Mantle, and you'd have to say 'okay, now I get why AMD is leading the way', don't just count the CPU gigahertz, but look at the technology innovation that we're coming up with."

"Amusingly, and I don't know how relevant it is, you can make your own decision on that, for me it's entertaining: one of the companies that approached us [about Mantle] was Intel, and we said to Intel, 'You know what, can you give us some time, to fully stabilise this because this has to be future proof, but we'll publish the API spec before the end of the year.’ And if Intel want to do their own Mantle driver and want to contribute to that they can build their own. We're trying to build a better future."

For more on AMD's Mantle, and why the company thinks Nvidia is doing "something exceedingly worrisome" with Gameworks technology, check back later in the week for our look at the developing war between PC graphics most prolific companies.

Got a news tip or want to contact us directly? Email news@gamespot.com


markypants

Mark Walton

Mark is a senior staff writer based out of the UK, the home of heavy metal and superior chocolate.

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intotheminx

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I believe the future of gaming is integrated graphics. The Iris Pro 5200 for Intel was a big step in the right direction. It is capable of 1080p gaming in a lot of cases, but isn't quite there yet. Hopefully the Iris Pro 6200 will see a 30%-40% boost in performance. That would make it capable to play a game like Crysis 3 at a 1080p resolution. If you've never built a PC before it can be a daunting task to select the proper parts. AMD and Intel need to up their igpu to a mid level range so people can stop worrying about GPU's and such and have the ability to just buy a Desktop. A strong igpu in a pre built desktop for a reasonable price could boost sales imo.

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Tabarnaque

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<< LINK REMOVED >> The GPU is about the only part gamers look at when choosing a prebuilt, no one is annoyed to look a graphic card, it's part of life, and shoving two huge blocks of fans and computer chips together in SLI or Crossfire is part of the fun when building, if everything is integrated, there is no more choice, well like a prebuilt, but building your PC the entry test to the Master Race.

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DanGleeSack

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<< LINK REMOVED >> That is a tall order. Games are pushing a lot of pixels around now, just wait till 4K starts to hit mainstream. The dedicated GPU allows a much more doable process as it has its own bank of fast and dedicated memory and the ability to perform calculations internally parallel and independent of the CPU clock. This frees up a lot of your CPU for the number crunching, while letting the GPU handle rendering and maybe some physics. I really don't see integrated graphics ever being anything past something just to let people be able to use a desktop for non-gaming purposes. Even if we could reach GPU levels now on a small integrated chip, it would still never be as good as what we could achieve in a GPU.

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VaLkyR_Anubis

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I personally find it very amusing and interesting to consider the whole situation of Intel's and AMD's CPU development and what paths they might choose in the future. Kinda funny to think of it, when I got my first own PC, it had a AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU and most of the time I used this CPU for games like UT2004 and Doom 3. However, today I got Intel Core i5 3450 and to compare these CPUs is pure madness somehow. I mean, the time difference is only something like 8 years (release), but if you consider the technology, they achieved so very much and they done a good job. Of course, there are many other CPUs on market, which are much better and faster than my own one, but I'm happy with it.


What I wonder about is, if the developer can get a better CPU optimization done. I don't play all current games, not even a hand full, but it is kinda interesting to see, how a application uses your CPU cores. However at this point, you also have to pay attention to the fact, that it is not that piece of cake to get this done. I remember talking about this at school and we only scratched the tip of the iceberg. Interesting indeed, but also pretty complicated, but it is not something you can force. It takes time. Looking forward to see how this thing turns out in case of 6 core and even 8 core CPUs. Having a 6 or 8 core CPU is indeed very much fun, but does any game really require this? I'm not really sure about this!


In the end, I'm really looking forward to the future. Let's see how DX12 turns out, more use of Mantle, which next step CPU development might take, etc. Despite that, I never really got the point of this Nvidia Gameworks business and why AMD is worried about it to be something negative. How many games use this Nvidia Gameworks? Not that many, aye.



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SuppaPHly42

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so about ten years ago intel was playing around with using diamonds instead of silicon because it can endure 2-4 times the heat and get speeds in the range of 81ghz.

now here we are 10 years later and still no diamond based cpus if they wish to keep moores law intact then should they not be pursuing this.
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DanGleeSack

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<< LINK REMOVED >> They are very expensive and the diamond has to be very very very chemically pure so it can be doped correctly to create a p-type substrate. The issue is also creating an n-type substrate to form the transistors, as you need both types of doping to create the potential. You also have to be careful with the radiant heat frying everything else on your motherboard. We have pretty much pushed our silicon MOSFETs to their physical limits so they are working more with stacking and better architecture.


Not sure how well we can create synthetic diamonds, but if that improves, this might become more commonplace, along with diamond coatings to create stronger and lower friction parts.

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Tr4newreck

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@DanGleeSack aren't artificial diamonds too perfect, a discerning feature, and dead giveaway for a jeweler.


and they are made en masse, many industries require either pieces, or dust of diamond, for cutting and drilling tools/equipment


but the heat wash issue seems like a damning problem

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DanGleeSack

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Yeah I believe that is an issue for cosmetic reasons, it looks too artificial, although now even some jewelers are having a hard time because they can approximate the natural conditions better and use different components.


You would still need the diamond dust I'm sure for the transistors, but that shouldn't be too big of a problem. Synthetic diamonds are softer than real diamond, so a diamond drill and/or heat should be able to grind them down no problem while keeping impurities to a minimum.


Again the real issue comes down to the composition of the material; it has to be almost an 100% pure element so that you can reliably dope (introduce impurities, in the form of another pure element, to allow for free and bound electrons) the substrates. It is that potential that allows current to flow with applied voltage. Unaccounted for impurities can potentially harm sensitive electronics that must operate within a finite range of voltage/current/heat.

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SuppaPHly42

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@DanGleeSack @suppaphly42 so i looked up all of that before i made that post and you are right on all points but one.

there are a few companies who make diamonds and with the right infrastructure they could be on par in price with silicon now i don't know how much adding the dope will cost and that might be the problem.

thank you for responding

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DanGleeSack

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<< LINK REMOVED >> No problem, I'm studying for an engineering and physics duel degree, so figured I'd give my 2 cents. Had a class on transistors/semi-conductor physics and it really only went into silicon based components due to time. That's cool what you found, maybe there is good hope in new technology coming public

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ArabrockermanX

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I just want IBM CPU's to join the home PC market then we'll have an actual competition and cheaper prices. Currently it is like Intel and AMD decide to to really compete against each other(1 takes the high ground other takes the low ground)...

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MJAPOX

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To kill AMD is to kill the console market since every gaming console carries an AMD GPU.

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ArchoNils2

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Well, AMD fits very well into weak systems :P

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klugenbeel

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> That's a pretty ignorant statement from someone who probably has to pay someone to fix his computer.

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ArchoNils2

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> How is that ignorant? They made weaker CPUs and they are in (weak) consoles (compared to Pcs)? Oh and lol, you are totally wrong, I actually studied Computer Science. Nice try though :)

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wm3sv

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> As an engineer i tell you, you know the reallity and directX is the real problem. I hope Mantle envolve and substitude the old directX. Or the programmers inproves into multicore programming which would be better.

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klugenbeel

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> Because AMD isn't weak, Intel Lemming. Did you sleep through computer science class or did you study at Intel University? The only thing you have shown is your are narrow minded and clearly don't know as much as you would like people to think you do. Let me guess, anytime your computer has a problem the solution is to format C: right? LOL

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ArchoNils2

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> lol? What's up with you? That Intel is stronger than AMD right now is a fact and is also stated like this in this very article. So yeah, when it comes to power, AMD < Intel and since Consoles (with AMD) < PC I thought it would be funny, hence the :P smiley.

I do like how you try to insult me though. i don't know why you need to attack me personal that much, but I guess this is for your lack of actual arguments? I really do not need to proof my knowledge to some random dude in the internet :)

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klugenbeel

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@ArchoNils2 @klugenbeel @mjapox You should probably PROVE you have a grasp of the English language first. Also if you want to use the writer's, Mark Walton, article as facts, you should probably check a few things. It's fairly interesting that someone who studied Music production at Buckinghamshire New University, is some how a expert on computer processing chip sets. Next time your computer breaks, you bringing it to the experts at Geek Squad?

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motopramaus

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<< LINK REMOVED >> What are you talking about. AMD is clearly behind at the moment and it's hurting the CPU market as a whole. Intel have not been pushed in years and release incremental upgrades each year because the performance gap is so large back to AMD.


AMD make very cheap parts that were ideally suited to the console market. I mean the consoles are using 8 core AMD CPU's running at 1.6ghz (PS4) and 1.75ghz (X1). AMD even have 5Ghz FX-9590 8 Core CPU on the market at the moment which is clearly outperformed by the cheaper i5 Intel CPUs.


It's not rocket science to see AMD are lagging behind at the moment and that consoles used extremely cheap AMD parts. PC's are my hobby, love building them, over clocking them and of coarse gaming on them.


If you want some proper numbers head over to guru3d and check out some benchmarks, you don't need a computer science degree to do that do you ???

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Fia1

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> just wanted to say that... that's insane there's no currently i5 processor that outperforms FX-9590, the best i5 intel has in the market 4690, 4690k is like 30~32% weaker than 9590, maybe in single application performance i5-4690 could be a little better, there's plenty of strong i7 and xeon models which obviously are better than 9590, some very high xeon e5's are almost twice as powerful as FX-9590, but you have to be joking if you think the best i5 at the moment is better than amd's 9590, the best i5 is probably not even better in performance than a fx-8320...

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motopramaus

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> That's not even nearly true, even the i5 4670 beats the FX-9590 easily. Not sure where you're getting your information from.


<< LINK REMOVED >>


<< LINK REMOVED >>

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ArchoNils2

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Well I am sorry, but after swiss german, german and french, english was the 4th language I learnt. So yeah, I might not be as good as a native speaker, but I'm at least good enough that you understand me.

I really don't get why you are so ndefensive over AMD? Just check any recent high tier CPU benchmark. Go over to tomshardware and ccheck some charts and show me any where AMD is in the top 5 spots. Factss are against you and all you can do is insulting me. So this is where I leave the conversation. If all you can do is insult me (without even knowing me), I'm done writing to your responses

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Darksimm

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<< LINK REMOVED >><< LINK REMOVED >> Yes AMD is the weaker processor but to just call it weak pretty much shows your ignorance on the subject. A Lambourghini is weak compared to a Bugatti, but is a Lambourghini really weak. We call this a reality check.

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ArchoNils2

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Where did I call it weak? I called the consoles weak. And I just thought it's funny that the weaker major player on CPUs works with the weaker major player on gaming systems. How anyone can get crazy over a funny comment with a :p smiley is beyond me

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ArchoNils2

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Where did I call it weak? I call consoles weak and that the weaker of the two major players fit to them. As I said I just thaught that's funny, why everyone goes crazy for a comment with a :p smiley is beyond me

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KIDFOX

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<< LINK REMOVED >> AMD always sucked, they still suck, they will continue to suck.

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rolla020980

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<< LINK REMOVED >>

Geek Squad Experts... lol...I had a good laugh at that gem of a joke....

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Gamer_4_Fun

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Feedback:


1: Gametech should have a permanent spot in the GameSpot homepage.


2: You guys should do reviews of stuff which are just really hard to decide to come to conclusion to: Gaming mice, keyboard, headsets.

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ArchoNils2

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I know this might sound stupid, but why don't they just increase the size of the CPU with a new soket? Or build them on more than one layer? If the physical restrictions in going smaller are the problem?

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JoMr3

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@ArchoNils2 As far as I know, making the die of the cpu larger also means longer physical pipelines, which has a negative effect on speed. But even more importantly: larger dies / cpu's means you'll be able to cut less dies out of the wafer, thus making the cpu more expensive to produce. Also it increases the number of faulty dies, once again making the cpu more expensive to produce.


As @shymis rightfully said, the way to go might be using extra layers, but this is still quite early in the development phases.

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ArchoNils2

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<< LINK REMOVED >> thanks for the info :)

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shymis

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@ArchoNils2 Well it's not stupid at all - Intel introduced a 3D CPU prototype in 2004. There are many challenges to create and mass produce something like this - physical restriction, complexity in designing the dye itself, building the mass production ecosystem and so on. On a side note - there will be a 3D part in the Carrizo APUs - they will have stacked memory. I hope I helped a bit :)

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ArchoNils2

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Thank you very much for your reply, looking forward to see how CPUs progress :)

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bbbl67

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I'll echo everybody else's comments here: brilliant! Just write a good balanced article, and keep to the facts, and let the praise come pouring in! I recently read an article entitled "AMD vs. Intel..." on another site, which in the end was entirely about Intel, and had nothing but generic info about AMD, and that article was roundly and properly criticized. Good on you to actually do more than a half-assed job! I guess we'll be praising more journalists like this these days, just for handling their jobs properly. ;)

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CaptinHairybely

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Bloody brilliant article... it's great to hear from industry experts.

Very informative, even though I am by no way a computer expert and had to look up most of the terms; saying that, I appreciated that Mr Walton didn't address the reader as if we were children.


Congrats

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Oggy1985

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Great article mr. Walton! Really enjoyed the reading!

Regarding the push from desktop to mobile, i think that every PC oriented company which decides to enter a mobile market will end with a loss and that move will result with a fail. Same happened to Microsoft and many others when they tried to push their way into markets which weren't their primary field. In such cases there is also extra downfall which appears on their primary market since they allocate their resources all over instead of focusing on the primary target.

I hope that both AMD and Intel, as well as AMD/ATi and Nvidia will stay true to the PC platform and cooperate with others (like mobile platform) in cases where the exchange of technology and patents can boost innovation in their primary field. Otherwise they'll face more and more loss in the process of experimentation, while the dominant players (ie. ARM) will continue to dominate the mobile platform.

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Darksimm

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<< LINK REMOVED >> Another problem with jumping into the mobile market in a word "saturation". You end up with too many companies vying for your dollar because the market is inundated with too many brands. It was a problem in the 80's with Colecovision vs Atari 2600 vs Intellivision vs Leasurevision (Arcadia 2001) vs Odyssey vs Vectrex vs Telestar etc. That is another reason why Microsoft had issues trying to get a foothold on mobile.

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arsenito

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Great article! Enjoyed reading it.

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gamefreak215jd

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Great article Walton.

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rohitv2312

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Gametech is probably the best feature in Gamespot IMO. :)

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