The HotSpot - 11/9/11 - Post-Modern Warfare 3

Activision delivers its latest high-octane shooter, and The HotSpot crew responds; plus, Mass Effect 3 beta leaks and, really, why was Dark Souls' ending so lame?

The HotSpot enters its adolescent years in its journey to video competency, and what better way to celebrate that milestone than with the game on loads of adolescent boys' wish lists, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3. Chris Watters, Kevin VanOrd, Tom Mc Shea, and Tom Magrino delve into how fun, and amoral!, it is to wreck wanton paths of destruction in Activision's latest, before launching into the particulars of the leaked Mass Effect 3 beta.

The HotSpot - 11/9/11 - Post-Modern Warfare 3 by gamespot

iTunes/Zune/etc.: It's not here yet; I don't know what to say. RSS here, audio above, video below.

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68 comments
VintAge68
VintAge68

@featheon Once again, it is NOT about (violence against) living creatures we are talking here, even in their depiction, since a symbol still is only a representation of something, not the actual thing itself..., and this is certainly my point of view (I don't believe in voodoo, either). Please note that the discussion is mainly about MW3 being criticized (not only by you) which is but a military game. And please quote correcly what one is writing: I clearly stated that the vast majority of acts of violence is not due to automated weaponry, yet in principle you can cause damage even with polyvalent technologies not invented to this purpose, e.g., Internet...

featheon
featheon

@VintAge68 So something that symbolizes the human is exactly identical to something that symbolizes a non-existing entity if they are both "virtual"? I don't understand that argument. On your view, slaughtering a pig is more violent than killing a human by lethal injection because you might see more blood and guts. I'm claiming that view, that visual aesthetics (your "cosmetics") is the decisive issue in determining the intensity of violence, is a red herring precisely because it equalizes the value of all living creatures, which no person on this planet actually believes (even the staunchest vegetarian). This is not an argument about censorship, it's about a fundamental distinction made between the depiction of violence against humanity and violence against other depictions of life. Virtual, real, doesn't matter. The majority of the people on the planet make it, but you pretend not to. I doubt that you actually don't, however. I can't understand the first part of your argument. I never "blamed" anything in particular, let alone military games. And what do you mean that real-world acts are not due to automated weaponry? Most casualties in modern war are executed by looking at a distant target through a computer monitor and pressing a button. What is your refutation of that fact? Do you want my sources?

VintAge68
VintAge68

@featheon The "violence in media"-argument castigates any representation of violence in all media, including television, movies, sensation press, and not exclusively in video games, let alone a single type of them, so you cannot blame military-type games alone, as more as the vast majority of violent real-world acts is not due to "automated weaponry". I did never argue that there could impossibly be an incitative in "playfully" exercising violence through a game, what I doubt is violence being "more violent" against soldiers than zombies here for both of them being entirely artificial in a purely virtual setting, the difference to me here is just cosmetic (i.e., you could give the AI creature any appearance, the actual act remains the same). Moreover, often times reality-simulating games like, say, Medal of Honor, or also Splinter Cell, encourage less a rambo-like but more responsible attitude than a couple of other monsterizing games. But I wouldn't want to use one sort of videogames against another, either, my argument is rather that technology as such is neutral, it always depends on the use one individually does make of it.

featheon
featheon

@VintAge68 We have: the majority of modern war casualties are the result of automated weaponry controlled using a computer monitor and controls that resemble those of video game. As for you maintaining that there is no difference between representing the killing of humans and the killing of mythical creatures because both are virtual, I can only repeat that this is a bizarre statement--nothing more. Add something new to your argument. There are thousands of philosophers, politicians, literary critics, etc., who have written about the possible detriments of simulated violence in media. Your response to all of them would seem to be no more than: "Hey, chill out man; it ain't real."

VintAge68
VintAge68

@featheon There's no such thing as "human life" in any video game but all life form is just virtual and intelligence artificial, and it is no more "real" to shoot an enemy soldier in a terrestrial war zone than killing a cyber zombie out in space. Do you really say that cutting an enemy into pieces with a fancy weapon, say, a huge electric saw, was less brutal than killing a supposed-to-be human at 20 yards with a sniper rifle only for the one representing an about real situation, and the other not? Shadows of the Damned's cynical demon-slaughtering seems to having been less an offense to Mr. McShea's sensibility than so-called postmodern warfare -- and if we were about to virtualize all real war-doing?

featheon
featheon

@VintAge68 this is quite a bizarre position to take, given the fact that you think fictional monsters are equivalent to the portrayal of human life. Even though I'm not in a position to agree with Tom on his criticism of violence, I find it equally ill-formed to say that depicting the killing of fictional creatures, let alone animals, is equivalent to human life.

mehrdad19872010
mehrdad19872010

@TomM_GScom Thanks for the reply, looking forward to the show.

Kayos90
Kayos90

@TomM_GScom Will you be doing livecalls for the Zelda podcast or will it just be a normal podcast?

Magrino
Magrino

@mehrdad19872010 I'll explain it on today's show. As it would turn out, only audio is on iTunes at the moment. Tech is currently futzing around with our video player/video pages, and until that's sorted, it will remain audio-only on iTunes. No ETA.

VintAge68
VintAge68

I have to agree with @endorbr -- quite hypocritical to consider e.g., fancied 3rd-person demon-slaughtering an act of lesser violence than what happens in more realistically simulated war games..., curious Yankee-bashing, btw. Yet not even approved CoD haters would wish seeing it reduced to a mere Facebook application...

evilweav
evilweav

@gfantini I think saving private ryan is an accurate portrayal of the horrors of war, but spielberg can't help but inject his hollywood glamour into everything he does. while the film respects war for what it is, it was still "cool" enough to inspire medal of honor, which of course led to call of duty, which of course led to call of duty: modern warfare series, the ultimate scourge on the industry. Black hawk down was also a fairly realistic portrayal of what that conflict may have been like, but if it hadn't been ridley scottified it wouldn't have sold tickets. most people don't like films like the hurt locker or estrepo because they unabashedly portray war without much of the hollywood glamour or cool factor. whether or not modern warfare portrays war in a callous or flippant fashion doesn't change the fact that consumers prefer it over realism.

mehrdad19872010
mehrdad19872010

@TomM_GScom yeah I was right. I can't get the video podcast on iTunes. Do you know when that feature will be available? Thanks again

mehrdad19872010
mehrdad19872010

@TomM_GScom hey thanks for the iTunes update but it's a little confusing and I can't seem to get video, only audio. Could you explain a bit more about it on the podcast or here? Thanks

DSmon
DSmon

@TomM_GScom Thanks for the heads up! I will most defiantly be looking forward to that!

Magrino
Magrino

@DSmon Expect a whole hell of a lot of Zelda talk on the Skyward Sword-exclusive 11/18/11 podcast.

DSmon
DSmon

I hope we can get some Zelda talk on the 11/16/11 podcast. :D

Magrino
Magrino

@gfantini More than make it look like a lot of fun, they make it feel like a lot of fun, too.

chicknfeet
chicknfeet moderator

Glad we are all on the same page that Lark...broke...the site :P Oh wait, that's what you said, right?

gfantini
gfantini

@TomMcShea thumbs up, Tom! I'm with you 100%. The exact word I would use to describe my feelings towards the MW3 fever is "disgust". @evilweav Your argument doesn't apply here. Great war movies like Saving Private Ryan do not glorify war like MW3 does. On the complete opposite, they portray how horrible and stupid it is. MW makes war look like a lot of fun, and that's most definitely not a positive effect.

Magrino
Magrino

@everyone iTunes has arrived! Looks like the storefront is still lagging, but if you subscribe, you'll get the most recent episodes.

crimsonbrute
crimsonbrute moderator

"Please don't hack me holy Jesus." Greatest. Quote. Ever.

evilweav
evilweav

@TomMcShea tom, does that mean you don't like war games in general, and for that matter the vast majority of war films as well? i would respect that, but it seems unlikely. do games that sensationalize war ease the conscience during times in which real people are being killed every day in (somewhat) similar situations? do they show respect to the fallen or minimize their sacrifice? i have no idea, but a 29/10 on battlefield makes it hard to care.

evilweav
evilweav

@arjun1 hahaha i can't remember a single hotspot that wasn't littered with soapboxes and rants. it's always been that way-- that's just how they roll.

The_Tricko
The_Tricko

I feel everyone loves Tommy McShea... I hope you do, because I do! Quit censoring the McShea! xD

twztid13
twztid13

uncharted disgusts me cuz it sensationalizes treasure hunting. it's absurd they would turn something that people have an interest in into a videogame. people die in real life looking for long lost treasure. i can't believe it's trivialized like that. also, it's going to make young kids thaink that it's "cool" to go on far away voyages looking for long lost valuables. what is this world coming to....right, Mr. McShea ;).

arjun1
arjun1

I don't think I can listen to this show anymore. When I first started listening, It used to be lighter-hearted, they used to make more jokes and have more fun. They also used to appreciate truly awesome games, but now it seems like they take the awesome games for granted, only rip average games for not being "innovative" or different enough. This would be like a movie podcast only ripping Transformers or Jack and Jill the entire podcast. It feels like they say "this is what is wrong with the gaming industry" a good 3 times a show. In addition, the list of games that Tom McShea is "disgusted by" seems to get longer, as it seems like he heavily criticizes anything that isn't Alice:Madness returns or Uncharted. The show has gotten gradually more pompous over the past year, and I'm sad to say I'm done listening to it because I used to enjoy it so much.

TomMcShea
TomMcShea

@Chimmeister, What disgusts me in Call of Duty, Battlefield, and other similar games is that they sensationalize military action, making war come across as something that's fun and entertaining.

koorkoor
koorkoor

I love when games have fulfilling endings like MGS4

Thelibarr
Thelibarr

Criss waters reminds me of TinTin somehow....wierd

koorkoor
koorkoor

I really don't like how Tom Mcshea is interrupting everyone. I mean there are manners when you're having conversations. He's just so annoying.

theshonen8899
theshonen8899

@Chimmeister Yeah his argument just doesn't make sense. In GTA you're mimicking gangsters who carry out hit jobs. Why is he only singling out military shooters and not games like Hitman which present very realistic and detestable scenarios. I'm not saying that Call of Duty shouldn't be viewed as glorifying war, but if you feel that way then that's how you should feel pretty much any FPS, not just the military ones.

Chimmeister
Chimmeister

@endorbr I would actually really like to see McShea answer that question. Why doesn't he complain about GTA rather than military fps's? In a military fps, there is some idea that the people whom you are killing accept the fact that they may die, whereas in GTA (I have an Xbox, so no Infamous for me) you can kill innocent civilians like its a big joke.

kittygus
kittygus

Tom Mcshea is getting a lot of hate this week O.O

endorbr
endorbr

I believe that's what is called hypocrisy Tom McShea. You love Infamous and Uncharted both of which involve you killing a lot of random nameless dudes. So what's the difference? Those games are more fantastical so that makes it okay? Those games are third person so killing has less impact? Just because games like CoD and Battlefield focus more on realism (albeit highly dramatized) from a first person perspective doesn't make them any different from every other game right down to Mario and Zelda that makes the act of killing random nameless whatevers the focus of our enjoyment.

TheProfileth
TheProfileth

@kittygus I guess you could say he is playing the real life version of street fighter, just challenging random homeless people and drifters to fights. Go Shaun Go beat those homeless ra ra ra give that drifter a taste of your iron claw! Yay Shaun yay! Odd that I am creating cheers to encourage Shaun McInnis to attack strangers, maybe I have been playing too much Condemned 2 and ncaa 2010

UppityPrimate
UppityPrimate

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

RDEChandler
RDEChandler

I would love to hear Kevin speak for more than 20 seconds without getting interrupted.

AzNs3nSaT1On
AzNs3nSaT1On

Wow can Tom Mcshae be any more condescending, please tell me I'm not the only one who can't stand his attitude of belittling every game he himself doesn't approve. Get off your moral highground, let people enjoy what they want to enjoy. I myself don't play MW3 but I don't go off telling people who do that their opinion is wrong or what they should spend their free time on.

PorkPoltergeist
PorkPoltergeist

It's not related to games, but I would like to know how Tom McShea feels about the new G4 show bomb squad Afghanistan.

robbiejones
robbiejones

ì agree with magrino bout mw3, amazed me!!

D27x
D27x

those guys are too much flirtatious with each other.

kiopta1
kiopta1

Mc Shea...seems like a very annoying person.

kittygus
kittygus

Still no Shaun? Is he out killing more drifters?

FreedomPrime
FreedomPrime

Tom Mc Shea, when it comes to call of duty, I agree with you %100.

eiji1
eiji1

@TomM_GScom 51GB? That's patently insane! Can't you record directly to a codec that's more compressed than raw video? I mean, one hour at 720p using MKV is around 1 GB. Since you don't display higher resolution video on the site, is there no way for the recording to be converted same-time to a 720p format? That has to be easier to edit, cut, and scale down to 540p, 480p and 360p... But I'm guessing you've looked into that already. Also, I gather this is the reason for the shortened length and for the no more censorship. But just in case, if you want to censor again, you can put in one of the old sounds and, instead of blurring/black-boxing mouths, just replace the relevant frames with still pics (like, if you censor using the Donkey Kong sound, fill the screen with an 8-bit DK or something.

Arther-la-Blunt
Arther-la-Blunt

McShea has a good idea with the valuing of a life, but I'm not so sure that people are as desensitized as McShea is saying. You can tell by opposition to real life wars. LOL. thanks for not calling him a re-*****r. Noone likes McShea, ever. Know-it-alls are the worst coworkers. You are talking about intellectual property law. It's valuable.

thebogle
thebogle

Thank you McShea for your thoughts on war games. As someone effected by war from a civilian perspective, it's very refreshing to hear those words.

holtrocks
holtrocks

Tom Mc Shea, makes a good point but at the end of the day it still is a game