Sony on PS4 used games: 'We are going to do the right thing'

VP of Worldwide Studios says Sony understands secondhand market is "massively important"; full vision will become clear in "good time."

Sony vice president of Worldwide Studios Michael Denny has promised the company will "do the right thing" with regard to used games on the PlayStation 4. Speaking to CVG, the executive described the issue as one of serious importance.

"It's a massively important issue and I understand why it's one that keeps coming up and will keep coming up, because people want to know what the exact stance is," Denny said.

"In relation to points like that, of course we're mindful of what the game development community wants and what the wider industry issues are with those things. I think in good time that will become clearer," he added.

Denny did not provide a simple yes or no answer, but said Sony will do right by developers and consumers alike.

"It's not something that I feel I have any further announcement or comment to make on, other than to acknowledge with you that it's a massively important issue and of course we are going to do the right thing," he said.

It has long been rumored that the PS4--along with Microsoft's rumored Xbox 720--will block secondhand titles in some fashion. Sony has even applied for a patent related to blocking used games. However, the analyst consensus is that both platforms will play used games.

Sony president of Worldwide Studios Shuhei Yoshida last week confirmed that used games will play on the PlayStation 4. However, it was not made clear if users would have full access to secondhand titles or if they would need to pay to activate the game as a second owner.

"When you purchase the disc-based games on PS4, it should work on any hardware. So that's what I'm saying," Yoshida said at the time.

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Discussion

535 comments
jsmooth954
jsmooth954

so does can it play ps3 and ps2 disc games?

macka26121
macka26121

question if you are saving your xbox one games to the cloud tell me if the cloud crashes or gets hacked what happens if the game gets wiped or your hard drive malfunctions done it before you put your game back in you bought new do you then have to pay to use it.

eatcat1
eatcat1

So, im gonna sell my truck to a guy across the street, but hes gonna need to send Nissan a few hundred bucks to get a key that works, cause mine wont work for him. ive always thought that once you purchased something it belonged to you, for you to do whatever you like with. I guess I was mistaken, but yeah, its complete bullshit, and as a computer science major in college, I know that even the smallest game is a miracle work of art with gazillions of lines of code and hard work. but I disagree with this, I will not purchase a system that implements this. and I own 2 xbox 360s n 2 ps3s, 5 pcs n a few servers. they can do what they like, I hope they sell 100 systems at launch. I hope someone literally kills themselves because the launch is so bad

MajinSquall
MajinSquall

just keep the online passes or implement a pass system like it for all games buy the game new and it plays buy it used and you have to buy a pass for a small price off the relevant services (PSN, XBL) to get it to play i think that would work the stores still get money from the used game sale, the gamer would still be saving as used games are usually pretty cheap so the overall cost is still cheaper then buying new and the developer will still be getting some money back for it so everyone is happy

yixingtpot
yixingtpot

PC gaming is graphics, lighting, I've yet to see a single player PC level match the shell shocked madness of certain levels of Killzone 2 or Killzone 3, the area where you have to get to the elevators while that giant mech's legs are crashing through... it's pure shell shock inducing madness and no PC game ever achieved such a feat... SO I just hope Sony's first party developers don't just use Unreal engine, even though it has many unknown strengths I just don't want more SHINIER PC generic shooters, I want the REAL Killzone experience fully realized and amped up on the new hardware via proprietary game and graphics engine.

xninjagrrl
xninjagrrl

Ok so if they block used games then new games should be $30. Only fair. 

XAF1
XAF1

Sony is playing it safe with the industry but sitting on the fence with gamers. I have a feeling that it might bite them somewhere in the end. The fact is if a developer wants to put a lockout in their game then that developer should state it to consumers so they can decide if they want to buy that developer's games or a specific game. For me it would mean not buying games from certain developers because I know that they sell lemons and would prefer not to get stuck with junk.

danusty
danusty

if you are talking to me, I'll tell you this: when you buy online for the most part, you are buying from other gamers. there are other websites where you can trade your games (or other items) for other games (or other items). both of those online service give you what you want for less and you don't have to involve yourself with the likes of gamestop.

ShimmerMan
ShimmerMan

The Gaming industry is getting greedy, very greedy

KBABZ
KBABZ

I think the current "block second-hand online features through a voucher" model works rather well.

Moi_Hahaha
Moi_Hahaha

Whether its next gen or the gen after, one day used games will be no more, the stories and rumours are simply for a future purpose... for you to get used to the idea of it, and for the fuss to die down when it actually happens.

make digital downloads 10-20% off RRP and all these problems go away.

Moi_Hahaha
Moi_Hahaha

Block them.... I buy all my games new anyway, let the devs make the money they worked for, I bet none of you would like it if you went to work and only got paid half the time for it. I'm all for complete block of used games, we are out there, its just these kids don't understand why its a problem, they assume its the evil mega corps (too much TV, what can you do?) or a more reasonable response would be  charging you an unlock fee... you all cry about Micro transactions and day 1 DLC (any DLC actully) well if you buy used games, you're the reason these things exist, and I got stuck with them too even though I wasn't part of the problem.

no used games... count me in.

Flamerdragon
Flamerdragon

Blocking second hand games is stupid.

|I mean they not pirated or something, it is the original game I bought from the store, I just lend it to my friend to play it and he will give it back to me, or he could like it and buy another copy for himself, or a game I dont really need and give it to him. I bought it, I own it, is my property now. I didnt crack it, pirate it or did anything illegal with it.


Blocking used games is another way to take our money by force.

A very stupid way.


Tee_Mal
Tee_Mal

It is absolutely ABSURD that they would stop the used game market, it is complete and utter greed. For a used game to even exist, that means someone ought to have bought it new in the first place right? So what exactly gives them the right to want even more money from the game the second time it gets sold, it's complete GREED. DLC being abused for extra money is one thing, making us PAY for endings? Locked disc DLC? Now this?!!? I'm sorry, but I will WHOLEHEARTEDLY NOT be buying a "next gen" console, I feel fucking insulted on behalf of the ENTIRE gaming community about the way these bastards are acting. 

Oh and BTW if you want one company to be held responsible for all of this point your finger at none other than EA. THEY introduced online pass, THEY are pushing digital distribution, which by the way if becomes the new standard and physical games are abolished will destroy the used market entirely, and the thing that's the most disgusting about them is that they try to make it sound like they're doing you a favor, they'll publicly speak of it being a service theyre providing, and they make BILLIONS of dollars in revenue, in complete profit AS IT IS and as it was before this complete farce of events, there's absolutely no warrant for this other than complete and utter greed.

Grow some balls guys, don't buy their shit if you're not happy with what they're giving you, I certainly won't be, because if you do that trust me, it WILL hit home.

toyo75
toyo75

A used or 2nd hand game is still a legitimate version, so why is Sony even considering blocking them? It's as if Sony execs and other game developers are treating these used games as pirated copies.

CaptainGamespot
CaptainGamespot

I remember when the PS3 and 360 were rumored to not play used games. the industry keeps recycling rumors. good that sony is combatting that.

00J
00J

In other news regarding PS3 - Slightly off topic...

Blizzard is rumored - well it sounds pretty solid, that on PS3 and PS4 Diablo III will allow "couch co-op" with no spit screen the camera just zooms out to show every character, AND will not require an always online connection to play. Offline play with 4 player co-op, WITH all the latest DLC available/packaged at launch... 

Sounds pretty damn good to me. Glad i bought both Xbox and PS3. lol

They ought to play in the background "In for the Kill" from Skrillex while they run the commercial of this... 

Valen_Ca
Valen_Ca

At what cost I wonder, sure the games will play but perhaps that is it, maybe they lock out trophy support, online play and any extra features until you pony up for whatever the devs are going to be calling online passes by that point.

 Heck maybe non of that happens and they just stream 30 second to 1 minute  unskippable ads into the title screen to help pay the devs, either way it will be interesting to see what kind of compromise Sony and, eventually, Microsoft will make in this regard.

RikusTwilight
RikusTwilight

"We are going to do the right thing" .... 'For the developers and make them block used games trololololol' Says Sony

PodXCOM
PodXCOM

Am I the only one who thinks Sony & the Game-Makers should have the right to make *some* money from used games?

They work so hard on the games, and GameStop gives nothing to  the Game-Makers from the secondhand market.

HairyMetalHead
HairyMetalHead

@macka26121 i think the cloud will be mainly for processing help and external save games, not a full game. But in regards to crashing, xbox live will have 300,000 servers for xbox one at launch and back-ups so crashing wont really be an issue. and hacked, ive been on xbox live for about 6 years non-stop and i've never had any problem with it so i don't see why it would be any easier to hack now.

if something that big were to happen they would be dealt with properly, but no don't worry once you buy a game its yours

yixingtpot
yixingtpot

@XAF1 you're not very intelligent obviously... we need to shut down big box game stores like Gamestop etc, they are the problem. They rip off US and they rip off game publishers and developers period. If you want to sell via ebay etc, then I'd say that should be allowed, after all you can do what you want with what you bought, but when you deal with places like Gamestop you're doing ALL THE WORK FOR THEM, you bring them the product, you more than likely bought new from them, that's where publishers get their cut, BUT then when you bring it back to sell or trade in, you get raped and so do the publishers, because everything penny places like Gamestop makes off used games is pure hand delivered profit margin. They didn't pay you to ship it to them and the publishers and developers don't get any of that profit, only Gamestop does and the idiots that bring them their products make next to nothing on the exchange.

tigress666
tigress666

@Moi_Hahaha You know, some of us buy used games cause that is what they can afford. At 60 dollars for new games, that just means I decide to give up on gaming, I can always compromise and waste my time on .99 cent iphone games (not as good, but for my budget a lot healthier and will still be fun). 

As some one else said, the people who buy used games either, 1. Don't think the game is worth full price or 2. Are like me and can't justify buying them at that price. Therefore they really aren't losing too much money on used games cause the people buying them wouldn't buy new anyways. You are being very short sighted.

Loshead
Loshead

@Moi_Hahaha you never took a game over your friends house that your friend didn't have so you guys can play together. If they blocked used games then we can't do that. Also I use used games to buy new ones. I sell them on craigslist/ebay or go to gamestop.

videogamer008
videogamer008

i loved your comment by the way but what are they saying... are they saying that they aren't going to allow PS3 games to play on PS4 or what..... i am getting confused here.... thank you for your help

lordcheddar2010
lordcheddar2010

@Tee_MalWHOLEHEARTEDLY NOT be buying a "next gen" console, I feel fucking insulted on behalf of the ENTIRE gaming community about the way these bastards are acting. 


Absolutely how I feel.



Kayweg
Kayweg

@Tee_Mal Exactly ! And they're calling US a bunch of entitled brats ?

00J
00J

@Valen_Ca Pay the developers what? lol 

They make 10 fold off the game when it initially hits the market... Second hand repurchases should not even be an issue. That should be the thanks to stores like Game Stop and Amazon.com for  promoting and carrying their products. 

The fact that the don't make any money off second hand games just alludes to greed plain and simple. 

If they want a percentage of second hand game sales i'm sure they could work out a deal with Amazon or Gamestop to get a percentage of second hand game/console sales.

lordcheddar2010
lordcheddar2010

@PodXCOM Why are they entitled to sales from the second hand market?

why would gamestop( a third party) have to or want to give their profits to a game publisher?


if you buy a used iphone do you send Apple money?

if you buy a used carof house do you then feel you should send a check to someone other then the person you are purchasing your item from?


Please explain to me why you believe a game publisher is entitled to additional money that was not accounted for in their business plan or quarterly review?

danusty
danusty

@PodXCOM if you somehow whant that to happen, you'll be the one paying for it, why? because if gamestop sells a used game for $20 for example and they know they will now charge you $25 or something like that. their $20 remain intact and you have to pay the extra $5 to that company. you know what I say to that? I say F... it! I'll be buying my used games online then which os what I normaly do anyways. hahaaaaa!

TigusVidiks
TigusVidiks

@PodXCOM does BMW, FIAT has any right to money from their second - hand cars?  Does any brand or company, of any type of commerce, asks for the right to get money from products they already sold to clients and no longer own, should those clients decide to sell it to someone else? It's ridiculous,  and the fact that there's already some people buying into their PR brainwashing campaign to convince us that they have that right and it's fair, shows the direction the industry is going. A decade ago, talks in the industry were about the recognition of videogames as art. Today, talks are about how to increase profits and turning games even more commercial in order to suck more money.

Marshal_Wilhelm
Marshal_Wilhelm

@PodXCOM 

Bob buying Jim's second hand game, gives Jim some money to buy a new game. Therefore the game makers are getting some return from games being resold. They've already made profit in the first place, they don't need to double dip, imo.

It strikes me as something similar to a particular bank making a solid profit AND laying off staff. Just not needed. 

We buy second hand cars, and the manufacturer gets nothing from that sale. Why would games be any different?

:)

lordcheddar2010
lordcheddar2010

@yixingtpot @XAF1 game spot is a choice, consumers needs to have choices and options.

if you do not like gamestop(like me) then simply don't shop there.


however after years of hearing EA complain how used sales hurt, I still do not understand the concept.


if you make a game and sell a million copies(just a random number) then you have made your quota. if then all one million games get sold to a secondary customer how are you losing? you were already paid  for the game.

anyone running a businness would or at least should be aware of  several quota when making your business plan.

how much to produce, how much to break even, and projected cost and revenue. beyond this saying you are losing money just dopesn't click with me.


I mean I paid almost 20 grand for my car, do you think if i sell it Ford will hold their hand out and say hey! were losing money on the car you already paid for?


this is what confuses me.

no other industry I can currently think of has this mindset.

do you pay extrra when buying a used (anything)?

do publishers ask for extra cash for that old paperback novel you are trying to buy at the used book store?

does Levi's ask for extrea cash for the used pair of jean you want to buy off your friend?

no, because they were already paid for the product and are happy to move on to the next sale.


and if Used sales really hurt why then during the 90's when used game sales were at one of their highest points did the industry and the very same companies who are crying "we need more money" thrive and expand?

It simply doesn't make sense.

Trading and bartering has a long and proud history, and should be encouraged not diminished.


besides aren't we just Keeping it Green and "recycling" our games? lol


Chrispm1984
Chrispm1984

@yixingtpot @XAF1  

 Stores like GameStop are not the problem... I agree that GameStop sucks, but for different reasons that don't apply here. Whether or not you use GameStop to sell your games for next to nothing is your choice. They don't force you to sell to them. It's a rip-off, yes, but it's your choice. Second-hand games don't affect game publishers in any significant way. The vast majority of people who by second-hand games are mostly in one of two different groups. The first group is the people that think the game just isn't worth the price of a new game. And the second group are the people who can't afford new game prices. 

  If someone thinks the game isn't worth the price new and find that they can't use it second-hand, then they're more than likely just not going to play it. The second group can't afford it unless they can get it second-hand. And, as far as the industry suffering because of second-hand games, it's odd that the net worth of the gaming industry continues to increase every year and a research group has estimate that it will reach 83 billion dollars by 2016. That's mostly thanks to mobile and online gaming. But the simple fact is, if you make a great game then people will want to play it as soon as it comes out. If game developers want more money, they should make better games. Simple as that. It's like the old and accepted thought that piracy kills the movie, music, and gaming industry. A lot of research has shown that the effect from piracy is negligible at worst and usually totally insignificant. Consumers just want a different consumption model. Look at the success of Steam, Netflix, Hulu, etc. Consumers want easier access. Give them that and piracy hurts no one. Try to live in the past and your business model will be the death of you, not piracy. 

Either way, I don't intend on buying a console (a.k.a. Extremely limited PC that is next to impossible to upgrade) to play games on that becomes outdated after 6 months. I choose to avoid all this crap by having a much more cost-effective PC. But, that's a story for another time.

TheBigChewbacca
TheBigChewbacca

@yixingtpot @XAF1 If we shut down all of the game stores that have used games where will people buy games? and keep in mind game stores only make profit on used games.

MegaPhilX2
MegaPhilX2

@Loshead @Moi_Hahaha
@ Moi_Hahaha: The devs don't get the money either way. The publishers do.
@ Loshead: You are right. Except about the part about going to GameStop. GameStop rip you off and they are the reason prices for used games are so high and that publishers want a piece of that rip off money too.
Bottom line, buy new or buy used. It's as you wish. But don't buy from GameStop. You buy a game console, you should be able to own the game you purchased and play it no matter where it came from.

Flamerdragon
Flamerdragon

@videogamer008 Ye, you wont be able to play your disc PS3 games on your PS4.

I am not sure about them digitally though.

PodXCOM
PodXCOM

@lordcheddar2010@PodXCOM  When you buy a used iphone, you buy new apps for it, right? Who do you think would get a bit off the top of the apps?

 If publisher THQ could have made a little more money, then maybe we could of had a Homeworld 3. Maybe we wouldn't be getting so much sequels and, you know, maybe we can try some new gamplay.

 You know, I heard that  movie writers get something like 0.14% of the sales off of DVDs and blu-ray. So that means, a good writer can stay alive just from his old movie sales.

lordcheddar2010
lordcheddar2010

@TigusVidiks @PodXCOM Totally agree,

the real issue to me isn't that the industry is trying to screw us, it that people seem ok, even excited to get screwed ( and i don't mean your buddies sister on saturday night screwed)

pspearman
pspearman

@TigusVidiks @PodXCOM However, most modern games have an online component which costs money to run which is usually funded by game sales. Therefore, from this, surely developers have every right to atleast block the online component from people who have not paid them to use it?

Moi_Hahaha
Moi_Hahaha

@Marshal_Wilhelm well no, because believe it or not, people don't only buy games with money gained from game sales.... in my experience most people are selling there crap because they have debts or to buy drugs... or have drug debts.

Sarijon
Sarijon

@Marshal_Wilhelm  totally agree, in other areas of consumerism 2nd hand market its the owner that recieves the profit and not the originator - this is the market & the games market is no different

PodXCOM
PodXCOM

@Marshal_Wilhelm Cars rusts and break-down. Games don't.

 I've seen a lot of good game developers die off, because they couldn't make the bill. Great developers like THQ. If they only had a little more money, they could still be with us.

TheBigChewbacca
TheBigChewbacca

@MegaPhilX2 The price of used games isn't because of Gamestop or any other store for that matter it's because of supply and demand. If people will pay those high of prices why should any company sell them for less?

TigusVidiks
TigusVidiks

@PodXCOM@lordcheddar2010 You know, I heard that  movie writers get something like 0.14% of the sales off of DVDs and blu-ray. So that means, a good writer can stay alive just from his old movie sales.

Of the sales. Not of the second hand sales.

danusty
danusty

@Moi_Hahaha @danusty @PodXCOM andy dean is the king of new content and I am the king of funny. hahaaaaaa!

victorlamy
victorlamy

@pspearman @TigusVidiks @PodXCOM that was included when the game got sold. you really think homefront is still worth the $10 they're STILL asking. hell, is the servers even up anymore?

wcbigguy4
wcbigguy4

@pspearman Also developers are forcing the online into games as way to sell more DLC.

PodXCOM
PodXCOM

@Sarijon  @Marshal_Wilhelm  I love the way you go: 'nononono, no, it's not our problem, it's their's! ' Just keep saying that and before you know it, EA is going to be the only one making games and DLCs.

Sarijon
Sarijon

@PodXCOM @Marshal_Wilhelm thats more to do with the current market, ie making games that don't sell and the publishers squeezing them and totally nothing to do with a different market enterpise ie the used games one