Miyamoto says publishers should see game ownership like a "toy company"

Mario creator says games should be something people can "go back to and experience again."

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Games industry legend Shigeru Miyamoto has likened Nintendo's role in the issue of game ownership to that of a "toy company," adding that consumers want to be able to buy games they can "go back to and experience again."

Speaking in an interview with Eurogamer, the Mario creator said that he wants to maintain the idea of games as a product users can keep hold of for many years.

"What's really important is viewing Nintendo almost like a toy company where we're making these things for people to play with," said Miyamoto. "As a consumer you want to be able to keep those things for a long time and have those things from your youth that you can go back to and experience again."

"I really want to retain that product nature of the games that we create so that people can do that and have that experience. To me that's something that's very important about entertainment itself. So from the approach of continuing to create things that are entertaining for people, that's an important direction for me that I want to maintain."

Nintendo also said yesterday that it would release a free-to-play game before the end of its current financial year.

Discussion

424 comments
Vodoo
Vodoo

That's Nintendos' problem... that they treat their console like a toy instead of an advanced interactive media player. They don't want to appeal to core gamers anymore for some reason. Children and casual players that had the original Wii now have smartphones and tablets to keep them occupied, and mostly for free. That's why Nintendo can't give away the Wii U right now. Most core gamers don't want a toy. So until Nintendo decides who their base is, they're gonna have a very difficult time with the Wii U no matter what games they put out.

oUNKNOWNo
oUNKNOWNo

Yes I agree with this very much.

sexyeyes79
sexyeyes79

Dude:  You know what's really cool guys?

Other Dudes: What?

Dude: Not being able to play your games whenever you want.

Other Dudes: What the fuck is wrong with this guy?

Other Dudes: Are you on drugs?

Dude: No!

Other Dudes:  Well maybe you should be!

talamalopilis
talamalopilis

this is exactly why i really dont like dlc, it makes games more of a service rather than a toy.

CraigNinten
CraigNinten

EXACTLY, I still remember days and nights spent playing Mario and teenage mutant turtle on my old, dusty NES, holy crap sweet, sweet memory.

aussiemuscle
aussiemuscle

Devs and publishers should take note, after all Nintendo have done well in this area.

JimmeyBurrows
JimmeyBurrows

To be fair, if everyone made great games that you want to play again and again, I'd never have any time to go back to the old games, so I should be thankful there's so much shit in the market today, because it allows me time to go back and play the old games that I enjoyed the most.

On a side note, although Ninty have a few great games that I enjoy playing, you can't deny they do spam a lot of shit out just like the other companys.

VarietyMage
VarietyMage

Games are toys, but they can be toys for adults, too.  And that's who you're also marketing to...the demographics are changing.  I grew up with arcade games, but I've also bought a PS1, a PS2, a PS3, and I've been playing games on PCs since MS-DOS 3.3.  I pay good money for games that I like.  If I like the story, I buy the game.  If I like the action, I buy the game.  If I like the puzzles, I buy the game.  I buy series of games based on that criteria.  I have bought every main-number Dynasty Warriors that came out, to satisfy my mob-clearing tastes (DW is more fun and drops better loot than Diablo 3, too).  I've bought every Final Fantasy from 4 - 12.  However, I don't count 13 because I was so disgusted with it I never bothered finishing it, and I will demo any future FF before purchase - if I don't like it, I won't buy it.  I've bought most FPSs for PC, except for ones that are mainly online.  I buy a lot of RPGs, too.  I'm old enough to remember SSI's Pool of Radiance, and I bought every game in that series (even the crappy Hillsfar game).  Note that.  I buy series because I like the way they play.  9 Final Fantasy Games, 8 DW games (I bought Empires, too), God knows how many FPSs, and at least 30 years of RPGs going all the way back to Maze Master by HES for the Commodore 64.  I know what I like, and I buy games that match that criteria.  Go back to the Final Fantasy formula used from FF4 - FF10.  Stay with the original DW formula (DW8 will be my first PS4 game, more than likely).  Stop the always-online crap so I can play more FPSs (I do single-player campaigns only).  More RPGs like the original Might and Magic Series, and Ultima series (hell, I've been playing Atelier Ayesha for my RPG fix, what's America's problem?).  And dammit, bring back the space exploration / trading / combat / RPGs.  I won't play EVE Online...I want games with story, and not having to deal with actual people who like to ruin other people's day just for kicks.  Hell, I miss Space Rogue, and Wing Commander: Privateer...but I want NEW stories, and thus NEW games along those genres.  The old games get, well, old, after a while.  I have to rotate games to keep things fresh.  Might and Magic 6, and Fallout Tactics are on my menu lately.  And someone tell Sid Meier to take Civilization back to multiple units per tile, or I won't buy his games anymore.  I still have Civ 4, and it's much better than Civ 5...I know, I bought that crapware too.  Go back to basics, people...give us what we want.  It doesn't have to have super graphics, but it better damn well play good.  No more of Blizzard's "We'll make what we want, and if they don't like it, we'll still have their money!"  Not any more, a**holes.

VenkmanPHD
VenkmanPHD

Half right: Games should be something we want to go back to and experience.
We all play Mario 3 still, admit it.

Half Wrong: Games should be toys. 
No. Games were toys in the 80s and early 90s. This medium has evolved from "toys" to being above the summation of TV, Music, Movies and Books. It is an all encompassing experience, that should not be squandered on games that are equivalent to "toys" (IE. Half the Fn library on the Wii)

corrus
corrus

Lame i am going to play with my doll  barbie

liandrikonflict
liandrikonflict

I bought a Bill Gates bobble head toy and if it doesn't connect to the internet every 24 hours it doesn't bobble anymore...:(

TheHappyDrunk
TheHappyDrunk

I like his analogy for two reasons. First, the point he is trying to make is that you should be able to go back and play the same game again and again, while still having fun. It's called replayability; this is something many games lack these days. It's the reason we can play Candy Land with our kids 500 times before they outgrow it. Of course, there's also the nostalgia factor. The second reason, one that I doubt he meant to imply, is that we  actually OWN any toys we have purchased. The toy makers didn't just give us some BS "license to use" the toys while retaining ownership of the ones in our homes.

91210user
91210user

Japanese government move! Japan doesn't want to go to China or Korea, they want to keep their island and keep what they've produced and they've asked Nintendo to keep it that way! Keep it in there own turf and pass that around! Maybe I'll pick up one game again and replay it but not an entire library. I also don't mind passing around my toys but I would say that everyone will have the same toy, which is why I would ask, what's going to happen if everyone has the same toy which will bore me looking back onto those games?

SeAzhrei
SeAzhrei

He needs to change his name to Solomon.

FULGOREY2K
FULGOREY2K

Twenty years ago, the video-game business was a niche hobby, so nerdy that nerds were embarrassed to be associated with it. Now, thanks in large part to Ken Kutaragi, the former president and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, video games take in more money than movies. An electrical engineer by training, he joined Sony in 1975, but his gut-check moment didn't arrive until 1990, when Nintendo backed out of a partnership with Sony to build a new video-game machine. Most in the company wanted to cede the battlefield, but Kutaragi believed Sony could go it alone; he led an in-house splinter cell...

Dagus0323
Dagus0323

I guess he is right. I never viewed them as "toys" I guess since I've been more matured most of my gaming life. I've always viewed the ones I enjoy (anything with a good storyline) more along the lines of a movie or a book, but I can imagine wanting to pass down your Mario 64 to your kids just like my mother wanted to pass down a rubix cube or rock em sock em robots lol.
(i'm 23 and my mom had me young haha)

SGTbilk0
SGTbilk0

Well according to micr$oft mr. Miyamoto if you want to experience your old games "you are backwards", that's the word of their boss. Hmm... It seems like micro$oft doesn't understand what gaming is all about, and just want to force their agenda on everyone, screw off you money grubs and take that junk tv remote with ya

keldarironfist
keldarironfist

Miyamoto is right, as usual. Physical media that is not crippled by DRM is one of the best ways to own your content. Digital means once the "service" is done, unsupported, out of business, so goes all the "stuff" you bought.

Digital is pure profit for companies, and only benefits them in the long run. Steam is DRM, and an anon. xbox developer has even said as much, despite the steam fanboys crying differently. Steamworks is DRM, most PC retail dvd releases use steamworks, which effectively cripples the game and turns it into the same crap you see with Xbone. Don't support this crap guys, the PC kids already sold us out with steam, don't let it happen with consoles too.

Microsoft has been and always will be anti consumer, please, we need to stop supporting that company and support ones like nintendo :).

Necro_Fear89
Necro_Fear89

I think Miyamoto still views himself as a child inside, coming on-stage during reveals with Link's Master Sword and Hyrulian Shield are obvious childlike antics lol. That said I agree with him, all the memories as a child playing video games came from Nintendo back in the day, and the PlayStation. The Xbox 360 gave me lots of fun memories too, it's where I first played online with my first GT, which is why I am sad why the Xbox One is turning out the way it has.  

nintendians
nintendians

his smiles make me happy, his like the Ronald McDonald of video games.

megafitch
megafitch

Is there ever a picture of Miyamoto san where he isn't grinning like that? He must be the happiest person in the world, or that Japanese "seaweed" is really good. How can you not like nintendo when their frontman is always so happy hehe :)

ominous_prime
ominous_prime

You ever notice how few 1st party Nintendo games are in the used games section at Gamestop? Makes you think, doesn't it?

Mafia217
Mafia217

Issue is that game publishers and developers are trying to complicate things. Back then, a game was made purely out of enjoyment, a hobby. Was played for entertainment, which some games still are...but most force themselves

anonymousicko
anonymousicko

Yup exactly. Games should be viewed as GAMES, not some movies which you watch once or twice and never look back.


Even Angry Bird has more replayability than some AAA games

Chai_Tea
Chai_Tea

You know why his face is weird and or annoying, it's because it's almost a triangle face.  Not a lot of people can stand triangle faces.  They are terrifying.  Just ask Danny Mcbride. 

bfa1509
bfa1509

Miyamoto's face is really irritating.

YearoftheSnake5
YearoftheSnake5

I wish more publishers/developers had this mentality. If you buy a game, you should be able to play it 20 years later without worrying if its servers are still going to be online to validate your copy. If I want to play my old copy of Kirby's Adventure, I can bring out the NES and play it. I'd like to expect the same for new games.

Itsthetruth
Itsthetruth

And Nintendo should see hardware as something that should be up-to-date, because more power means more possibilities too for the good developers. Right?

mjswooosh
mjswooosh

People will buy a "toy" in droves, but not at the $349 price point. Nintendo needs to get the Wii U 32GB down to $249 and the 8GB down to the $199 sweet spot, begin offering some packages with their new 1st party titles coming out soon, and they will be just fine. Sales thus far have pretty much matched the 360 to this point after its release, and when the 360 came out we were in an economic boom whereas in 2013 we are still in a global economic recession and people simply have less money to spend than they did back then. So, all in all, the Wii U is not doing nearly as badly as many people seem to think.

Nintendo may have timed the Wii U wrong and certainly didn't have enough good, system selling games for it at launch...but it's way too early to say Nintendo is in any real "trouble" yet with this console. They are a very cash rich company and should end up selling a lot of Wii U's once some games hit and the inevitable holiday price drop goes into effect. A nice X-Mas package deal should be enough to put it in 2nd place behind the PS4 for holiday sales.

silvergol
silvergol

@VarietyMage Thanks for all these reasons! i jumped Nintendo products and never comeback.

bunchanumbers
bunchanumbers

@VenkmanPHD Games still are toys. Tell me when you aren't playing games anymore. What will you call it? Interacting? Experiencing? You PLAY a game. You PLAY with a toy. 

When the games were twisted and became interactive books or military simulators they stopped being games. Whatever you want to call the medium... I couldn't care less. But those aren't games.

Nintendo has been making games for gamers for decades now. It focuses on the gameplay, puzzle element and overall fun. Keep on making games Nintendo, and as long as you make great games I'll always buy them. 

They can keep their interactive movies and first person military, and driving simulators. Fictional historical interactive movie and Science Fiction Fantasy military simulators.

silvergol
silvergol

@keldarironfist Steam is a amazing service, XBOX ONE NOT!

STEAM Respect their Customers! XBOX ONE NOT!

STEAM You can play OFFLINE, XBOX ONE NOT!

STEAM Games you just activate! play like you want! XBOX ONE NOT!.

STEAM is amazing! XBOX ONE NOT!.

TheHappyDrunk
TheHappyDrunk

@Necro_Fear89 As successful as he is, he can pretty much act however he wants, so long as it isn't criminal. Even if it is, I'm pretty sure he can afford a good lawyer. I'm sure his child-like mindset is a big part of the reason he can consistently create fun games. Even if he doesn't do anything innovative, groundbreaking, or even technically difficult, he still manages to make the vast majority of his works fun.

TheHappyDrunk
TheHappyDrunk

@megafitch I like Nintendo. Personally, I usually prefer Sony's consoles, but Miyamoto (and Nintendo in general) usually manages to impress me with first-party works. I'll probably even pick up a Wii U once a few of N's titles come out, even though I'm not a fan of the system itself.

ziqi92
ziqi92

@ominous_prime If there's only thing I always find in the used section, it's the EA sports games.

TheHappyDrunk
TheHappyDrunk

@ominous_prime Have you also noticed how it takes forever to stop finding new (still wrapped, not necessarily recently launched) titles in the same store. They tend to support their titles well past the release quarter.

91210user
91210user

@TheKiwiMantis yeah but he is a doll or muppet based off an annoying New York plumber that you wouldn't want to know. A model off someone who clearly needs help, hence the controls!

ziqi92
ziqi92

@Itsthetruth That's assuming you'd want to pay for such expensive technology in the first place. Remember the PS3 original price point? How about 3DO from the 90s? Yeah, powerful technology for their time indeed, but did you really want to pay $600/$700 for those consoles? Not to mention, additional power never guarantees good games. Nintendo purposely limited their CPU to 2GB RAM because they wanted developers to use the GPU instead for graphics and to lower the console price. Developers need to stop being lazy and learn new programming tricks if they ever want to create better games.

Vegamyster
Vegamyster

@ItsthetruthThe games they've shown at E3 like MK8, Bayonetta 2, SM3D World, Windwaker HD ect were all running 1080p 60fps, they looked awesome visually. Another thing is its the only Next-gen console with Free online, No DRM of any kind, and its fully backwards compatible.

MrOrbitz
MrOrbitz

@silvergol @VarietyMage Did you even READ what VarietyMage posted? Where in god's name did you get the idea he was bashing or making a point against Nintendo?

He basically said all the things Shigeru just said about games as a product and not a service.

JimmeyBurrows
JimmeyBurrows

@bunchanumbers Some games still are toys, but you did explain exactly how they also aren't... Some people (myself included) enjoy the artistic games and for those titles, you aren't playing it as much as you are experiencing them.

TheHappyDrunk
TheHappyDrunk

@CDWJUSTIN @SGTbilk0 They don't need to. They understand what consumers are all about. They don't need to build hardware for the consumer. They just need to build something and convince the consumers that they NEED it (Windows, Xbox, etc.). They've gotten very good at this, often to the detriment of whatever industry their product is a part of.

Itsthetruth
Itsthetruth

@Vegamyster @Itsthetruth They sure did look great, I was actually impressed by bayonetta in that jetfighter part. But it's not enough to run Xbox360-and-PS3-like graphics in a higher resolution i think.

If there would be a better processor and a bigger hard drive it wouldn't be for the graphics but for more complex games, more intelligence for the NPCs, better physic systems... Why not a Pokemon MMO?

This hardware imposes limitations to what you can imagine with the system, and that's the problem.

VarietyMage
VarietyMage

@MrOrbitz @silvergol @VarietyMage He saw what I was saying, though.  Nintendo can't be an all-kids platform, either.  It won't survive, because kids grow up and their peers start playing more adult-themed games (FPSs in particular)...plus their own tastes change, too.  Part of becoming an adult is learning adult tastes.  If any game developer (or console developer) doesn't cater to adults (especially us long-time gamers), they will keep losing money, and go bankrupt eventually.  I made the point towards ALL game and console developers.  But Miyamoto gets it.  He understands that niche platforms only get so much market share.  If they want more market share, they need to change their platform, and Nintendo is widely known as a kid's platform (mostly because Nintendo has many kid-friendly games and a lack of adult-themed games).

You're spot-on about games being a product, though.  Why should I keep paying more and more money for something I can't own?  To me, it's like renting an apartment versus buying a house...unless you're getting a feel for the neighborhood, renting an apartment is wasting serious money that gains you no equity (and you can be kicked out without reasonable notice these days).  I don't get any game equity from an MMO, because once the servers go down, my game is gone.  MMOs are just like an extended movie, except you can't buy the damn thing when it's over.  When they get back to product-based marketing, then I'll buy more.  Not until.  That means you, SimCity, Diablo, Star Wars: The Old Republic, EVE Online, etc.

bunchanumbers
bunchanumbers

@JimmeyBurrows @bunchanumbers and that is why most interactive experiences these days lack replayability and are not games. After you experience it... what's left? You set it aside, or take it to gamestop and trade it in and move on. Games could be anything from Chutes and Ladders to Super Smash Brothers. You can play it with lots of friends and you will always have replayability. Interactive Experiences these days don't have that because they are NOT games. They really should find a different name for them. They give games a bad name.

Itsthetruth
Itsthetruth

@Vegamyster a hard drive allows the game to access more info and faster than reading it from the optical disk, as well as saving player data, thats why even console games require now hard-drive install (unfortunatly forcing you to wait a lot before the 1st time you play).

If Nintendo would want to make a Pokemon MMO (think World of Warcraft - Pokemon style) they sure would need lots of Gb space.

But the most lacking in my opinion is the CPU. As you said, the graphics processor is good and the Ram too so I'm sure Nintendo can explore the strength of their system in an outstanding way, unfortunatly not all 3rd parties are as good as them and would need more to create less.

Vegamyster
Vegamyster

"But it's not enough to run Xbox360-and-PS3-like graphics in a higher resolution i think." 

The 360/PS3 more visually impressive games such as Uncharted 3/Halo 4 only run at 720p . The Wii-U already proves it can handle 1080p 60fps.

Here are some examples: /watch?v=vzPzHiwzPvE

                                       /watch?v=BfKo_HhlhYM

"If there would be a better processor and a bigger hard drive it wouldn't be for the graphics but for more complex games, more intelligence for the NPCs, better physic systems"

 99% of games are not that Cpu intensive, yes a higher clocked Cpu would have been nice but the Wii-U is based around the Gpu which has shown its muscle like i mentioned above. 

The Wii-U uses Bluray Optical Disc that can hold 25gb of data compared to the 360's 8gb Dvds.

 The Wii-U has more Ram then the 360/Ps3.

 A Hard drive is just storage whether it be for DLC or Updates, it doesn't allow games to be more complex lol.