Medal of Honor: Warfighter's Dirty Secret Fuels the Flames of Hatred

Tom Mc Shea analyzes the damaging portrayal of your enemies in modern military games.

The words of the enemy rang in my ears, "Carry the jihad to the infidel lands!" Undercover in a terrorist training camp, I fired shots into the chests of inanimate dummies standing in for the capitalist elite, while an Arab voice bellowed words of anger. As I boarded a makeshift airplane--the final step of my initiation--I turned my gun onto passengers while tearing toward the cockpit. I kicked the door in, tossed a grenade, and then murdered the two pilots in charge of the flight. The Arab man--head of this terrorist organization--mocked my speed but took me into the fold anyway. He had a mission to perform, and any able-bodied man with a cold, black heart could further the cause.

Moral judgments are made during this sequence and cemented through the course of Medal of Honor: Warfighter. The Arab and Somali forces who oppose you are bad. While you, a good guy from America, kill to protect your family and to preserve your freedom, their motivations are never properly explored. Instead, they exhibit the same stereotypical behavior prevalent in so much media. Terrorists shout threatening words in a foreign tongue, mercilessly execute hostages, and, when their end is near, strap a bomb to their chest so they can't be taken alive. Honor? Pride? Respect? Save that for the Americans. The alien people depicted in Warfighter don't deserve your sympathy. They deserve a bullet to the head.

Because Warfighter doesn't take the time to explain who your enemies are, they become nothing more than evil strawmen who represent every deplorable thing terrorists have done to America. But such a representation is lazy and unfair. Exploration of the cause of their unrest is necessary to establish them as real human beings. But if Danger Close gave them a purpose other than to be mindless killers, if they also had families waiting for them at home, dreams of a life without oppression, that would shatter the illusion the development team has created. To give them feelings, a personality, would make murdering hundreds--thousands!--of them during the course of the campaign upsetting. Fleshing them out would have required respect for the players, that they are mature enough to fight a fully realized enemy. But that's not the case here. Your enemies are part of an organization dedicated to the murder of your countrymen.They are foreign. They are different. And they deserve to die.

Modern military games are damaging in too many ways to count. From the way they transform American soldiers into unfeeling automatons capable of killing thousands without the slightest twinge of sorrow, to their explosion-filled set pieces that further the notion that war is a fun pastime, military shooters are filled with the realization of our unhealthy desire for senseless bloodshed. But the one element that's most troubling is how the other side is depicted as little more than feral dogs. It's sickening that human beings could be treated so poorly in popular video games, and it's only strengthening society's tendency to fear that which they do not know. It doesn't matter that Warfighter doesn't develop your enemies. They are the other. They want to hurt you and that's reason enough to want them dead.

Your enemies are foreign. They are different. And they deserve to die.

Such an unjust portrayal should have disgusted me. But instead of anger boiling my blood every time my enemies were painted as less than human, I felt only a cold pang in the bottom of my stomach. Medal of Honor: Warfighter is just the latest in a seemingly never-ending string of military shooters that fuel the flames of righteous jingoism and the insidious us-against-the-world mentality. I played through Warfighter with quiet determination. Dialogue thick with combative patriotism spewed from the screen and into my subconscious, joining the wealth of such poisonous rhetoric that any consumer of video games and popular media absorbs over the years. I've become numb to all this chatter. This is the kind of game that sells, and every developer eager to make a splash at retail is willing to set aside moral obligations to rope in those who crave senseless killing.

The cutscenes and gameplay join hands in an unholy marriage of xenophobic pride. While the cutscenes continually stoke the fires of your unrelenting hatred toward the other, the gameplay allows you to enact a dark fantasy with little repercussions. In some games, dodgy artificial intelligence could be chalked up to the limits of the development cycle, and the enemies could be excused their recklessness and idiocy. In a modern military game, the enemies are modeled after actual people, which makes their stupidity more obvious. And these mindless enemies feed into the messages these games continually communicate.

First, by creating an enemy that is unfathomably stupid, the notion that the people you're fighting are less than human is hammered home. Watch as your squadmates duck behind cover, circle targets to get a better vantage, and do their best to stay out of their enemy's line of sight. Their impenetrable shields protect them from bullets that sink into their flesh, making you and the forces of good seem like gods compared to the lowly people who oppose you. Now contrast that with how your enemies react. A foreign soldier may run from cover to find a spot in the middle of a wide-open courtyard, assuming a vulnerable position while you gun him down in cold blood. Another pauses expectantly while you execute the person next to him, waiting for you to deliver another oh-so-satisfying headshot.

The second reason the artificial intelligence is lousy in so many modern military shooters is that these games are little more than power fantasies. Programming enemies to favor suicidal tactics instead of self-preservation allows players to kill thousands of enemies during the course of the game. Imagine the alternative for just one second. If every enemy were as smart as your squadmates, hiding behind cover as long as possible, forcing you to be on the offensive, each encounter would stretch on for dozens of minutes, if not longer. Because your enemies are mindless, you don't have to put yourself in your character's head. You don't have to consider how the enemy thinks; how he's going to react. Instead, you wait a second or two for the enemy to expose himself, and you gun him down with a couple of shots. And the bodies pile up at your feet.

Different games and different difficulty levels can mitigate the divide between the superhuman protagonist and his subhuman foes, but the underlying message is unmistakeable. Medal of Honor: Warfighter is a game that furthers the divide between Western philosophies and the rest of the world. But it's not alone. It's only a meager imitation of what has come before it, underlining how pervasive this problem has become. Until we recognize what these games represent, and how damaging they are, developers will continually parrot the same jingoistic blather. We live in troubling times, but as long as we see through the facade, there's hope for the future.

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Valence202
Valence202

Isn't it interesting to see what really serious philosophical discussion this article has created on a forum for PC gaming? I think it is the right of the public who are gamers to demand more engrossing content , better PC games. These games can be a teaching tool, they can show us a mirror of ourselves as humans. They can also be one phenomenal source of entertainment if the right people are behind the creation , for the price of $59.99 these PC games should be Phenomenally entertaining. Some of the best games I have played felt like a movie where in I was a part of it. Has anyone ever heard of an old movie called Westworld.

Ultimately PC games should be escapist , entertainment of the highest order and it is an evolving art form It would be amazing to see how developed PC gaming is in about say 100 years from now.  The PC as well.

mac24
mac24

I hate to say this, but, this article is more like a thinly-veiled, belated butthurt response after the editor's read-end got terribly (and embarrassingly) handed down by Goodrich himself.  His arguments against the game are so freakin' shallow that it reeks like bad come back for his earlier said humiliation than a fully thought out opinion piece.

bluefox755
bluefox755

We all learned something as children..."Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"....this is such craziness...if I'm to understand correctly, anyone who creates something to entertain the masses...has an obligation to "be responsible" and consider how the content they put out might affect others, whether it might offend them?  or hurt their feelings?  Is the idea of freedom of expression really that far gone?  I think the KKK, black panthers, and every other hate group is downright nutty, and has nothing valuable to offer society, but who am I to tell them they can't speak their mind?  Who are you?  Or Tom McShea to tell them, or anyone else, they need to be more responsible or considerate?  If I don't like something being said, I don't have to listen to it, why can't it be that simple???

theoldfox1891
theoldfox1891

"A boring, unoriginal, morally bankrupt, ethically dubious glorification of war, that's not worth your time or money"

 

"You can portray war like a silly, globe-trotting disaster movie, as Modern Warfare does, and you can scrape by without questioning your character’s relentless killing. But when your story is told with stony-faced seriousness, a little critical distance might be a good thing. In fact, isn’t it both dishonest and ethically abhorrent to do anything else? If your videogame is set in the real world and its characters kill hundreds of people without feels or personal injury, and then your videogame unthinkingly applauds those characters, you’ve created a multi-million dollar celebration not of heroism, but of violence and killing." - PC GAMER.

bluefox755
bluefox755

Great thread though, lol, even if it a stupid article that feels like it belongs on a political blog.  Who knew there were intelligent adults on gamespot forums? ;)  I love a heated debate

_huh
_huh

Anybody here could've written the same article and gotten the same attention.  This article/topic = noob journalism.  Seems like this author is desperate for attention, after the failure of quoted for truth.

theoldfox1891
theoldfox1891

I would like to hijack the debate and steer it to more along the lines of ethics, rather than the politics of the subject...hopefully leading to a more thought provoking and intelligent debate. 

 

IS MAKING A GAME ("SHOOT EM UP" in this case) OUT OF A CURRENT CONFLICT ETHICAL?

Valence202
Valence202

We our not God's Slaves we have free will. We can do what we please but we all know in our hearts , or our human minds what is wrong and what is right , and there is a price to pay for doing evil on a continual basis just as there is a reward for being a hard working , humble , long suffering , honest , gentle , caring , merciful human being. We as humans who know what is good , how can you do bad when you know it is not right for your own self. It is not how you would want others to treat you so how can we treat another in an evil way.

When people do what is wrong you can see how it affects them , they get diseases , they develop addictions, they hear voices sometimes , they lose their very sanity . The words of the Christian Bible reflect this Universal Truth, For the wages of sin is DEATH. This is not a mandate for some human being to take upon his own shoulders the judgement of the Creator , or to carry out the sentence , it is encoded in this very world. Think on this Brothers and Sisters of all nations and faiths.

Religions are mankinds invention, God did not create them.

 

Sevont
Sevont

Ole Tom struck a nerve.

 

Assimilat0r
Assimilat0r

Islam is bad, i had expirience with islam its like  satanic opium, makes you to hate other religions and other cultures even Quran describe and  bringing ideological tutorial how to hate non muslims,. I will just quote this. 

QURAN  : 

-  Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves… (48:29)

- Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

 

- The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (9:30) (See also Bukhari 8:427), one of the last things Muhammad ever said on his deathbed was "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians.”)

 

 

Islam is a world n.1 problem. Get rid of Islam and peace will be. 

 

I DONT ACCUSE EVERY MUSLIM OR BELIVER. BUT RADICAL PARTS OF ISLAM. THERE ARE  DIFFERENT WAYS OF ISLAM. AND I DONT MAKE THEM ALL SAME BUT I HATE SHERIAH ISLAM AND RADICAL ONE.

TheBigKabosh
TheBigKabosh

I wanna see him write a similar article about Wolfenstein (3D!).

bluefox755
bluefox755

My problem with "peaceful Islams" is you never hear a peep from them denouncing the fundamentalist extremists in their religion.  You have to ask yourself, why is that?

179107199999
179107199999

@Valence202 Westworld with Yul Brenner as that crazy psychotic Robot Cowboy?? If that's the movie yeah I remember that he unnerved me anyway I agree But Games as you describe them should be more than for PC.It should be consoles as well.Its hard to find a game where they can be as immersive as you say.They exist but are surronded by games that are mediocre to say the least.I want a hard copy of the game Tokyo Jungle.after seeing the story line and how the animals have to survive i have to say I really want that game.

179107199999
179107199999

@theoldfox1891 EA doesn't care.I still remember there weapon selling fiascal for this game.They're just trying to cash in on the world's hottest more recent enemies.EA doesn't care.This age of gaming is different.Back then it was Nazis and Aliens and spies.Now for this game they throw radicals around like they're Nazis.However they don't make references to the ones who actually try to do something.Its funny how Tunisia stood up against their regime and in MOH they just portray one side of a giant issue.In the fight of terroism you have our military,then you have radicals,then you have that country's servicemen and then civilians.What truly matters is the civilians and how they feel.But whatever EA was just trying to make a game that hit on contraversy just so they can make a buck.That's EA.......

theoldfox1891
theoldfox1891

 @_huh

 Journalism with an opinion or conclusion does indeed get attention these days becasue it is so rare... Mainstream journalism basically amounts to reporting what people have said and will literally configure their tv segemts or articles to these people said this, and these people said that. Then leave it at that! They don't try to analyse what the two sides have said and who has the stronger case of the two (what do the facts say?), out of fear of being biased!

 

As an example I will use the US election. To prove my neutrality I will state that I hope both candidates would die in a fire.

 

All the mainstream media states that it is just to close to call, because everyone else has said it's too close to call and don't want to be percieved as biased. But you don't need a journalistic degree to look at the fucking polls. Not just the national one. Look at the Swing States and the Electoral College. When you do it turns out Obama has a 70%, yes 70% chance of being re-ellected. Thats not too close to call, thats not having the balls to call.

 

Having facts and a cohesive argument, wether you agree with it or not is good journalism, not 'noob' journalism. 

KgameX
KgameX

 @theoldfox1891

Well, in that line of thinking would writing a book on a current conflict be ethical? Yes, of course. Books, articles, movies games and really any form of media/entertainment have the right to cover things going on in the world. Sometimes the most compelling stories are real ones believe it or not. Now does this game have anything to say beyond superficial run and gun, no, but it's free speech at work. I won't give them my dollars for the effort. At the end of the day they have a right, but we have the right to comment right back by buying or not buying the game. (I did not) Western society prizes freedom or so we say, so I won't infringe on them but in today’s world the dollar, euro, dinar, seem to carry a much bigger weight than our principles, so I guess I will vote with the $. I served with a bunch of men in Iraq that I consider to be Heroes, at the end of the day I don't know if the war was right or wrong, but I did see the best and worst of humanity at play. So should the story be told? Of course, let’s just see someone do it with some real heart and effort. I served with a Medal of Honor recipient ironically enough. His name was Ross McGinnis. Many other soldiers I knew also paid the price Ross did as well. Read "They fought for each other." So it's totally ethical, this was just a bad effort as many modern shooters are on this note. I will say this as well in the end, Mr. Mcshea did provoke thought in my mind on the subject, so he succeeded in what I think his real effort was, just the get us the gaming community to question. No harm comes from questioning the world and the powers that be; the harm comes in never questioning. Take it easy and this is just my opinion. No one could write the script of life because it is just too crazy, scary, and altogether unpredictable. I like my fiction, but it always seems to work best grounded or mixed with a bit of this reality.

picho86
picho86

 @theoldfox1891 OF COURSE IT IS

To be offended by a game like this you have to really be trying.

_huh
_huh

 @theoldfox1891

 What code of "ethics" are you trying to base our views from? We need one to compare-to. To me, any ethics in video games are stupid.  I just don't buy what i don't like or agree with. 

 

Let the marketplace decide

theoldfox1891
theoldfox1891

Take it away from this subject matter i.e 'war on terrorsim' becuase of all the political western dogma and apply it to a hypothetical such as...

 

Making a game out of the current conflict in Myanmar (Burma). Or a game about the ongoing Syrian uprsing/civil war.

Claudiov1_0
Claudiov1_0

 @Valence202 One of the greatest modern poets, Fernando Pessoa, had several heteronyms, one of them Alberto Caeiro was portrayed has somewhat of an "Anti-philosopher", an "Anti-Methaphisist", he said: "If God doesn´t present to us, it's because he doesn´t want us to see him"  and throughout his work he revealed that, for him, god was in the "common holyness of things", he also made an incredibly interesting poem about how he saw that Christ descended to earth and was just a normal boy... it's called "Num meio dia de fim de primavera" if you can translate it from google you could probably read a chunk of the poem with some meaning... however there are no translations of the poem in english...

 

You are right, Religion is mankind's invention, but it is also the comfort of many, personally i am agnostic, but we are all different and we are all human beings, and, as such, we are all brothers and sisters.

picho86
picho86

 @Sevont Oh come on Tom... You can't like a post like this... It's like kissing your own ash (or whatever it sounds like)

179107199999
179107199999

@Assimilat0r Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves? (48:29) ( was talking about ancient Pagan Arabs of Mecca not anyone else. - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.) This statement is about people who don't believe in God in general and choose to fight against what Muhammad was doing.(bringing law in to the Pagan Arab world.) And when paying Jiziya you don't have to fight wars if the country is invaded.Only Muslims have to Its their obligation.And if the Islamic state can't protect the people who have to pay Jizya then Non Muslims (aka Belivers) don't have to pay.The Jizya is only meant to be in place in a country that is majority Muslim.It doesn't say go out there and slaughter Non Believers becasue they don't believe. - The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (9:30) (See also Bukhari 8:427), one of the last things Muhammad ever said on his deathbed was "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians.?) "Imitate what the unbleivers of old used to say." Basically They're saying God has a son but God has no children.He wasn't brought in to the world and he doesn't have progeny.Back in the old days The Hebrew believe Yeshua (Jesus) was a prophet not God.But somehow a mix up occured and Now it is believed He is the Son of God. What's kind of funny is if you look at it differnetly son could mean Sun and Light is one word for knowledge.So The Son of God could mean the Sun of God in other words the Man who was giving us God's wisdom/Light. And that Last statement is false.Only people who seek to discredit always and I mean always fall back to the Hadiths.The Hadtihs have nothing to do with the Quran. You truly lack knowledge on this subject

laithk50
laithk50

 @Assimilat0r Yeah, half of this is BS.The other half is misleading.

 

Jizya is simply tax ordained for non-muslims or self-governing territories in an islamic state.  Islam already ordains tax for muslims through Zakat and it would not be allowed to charge non-muslims Zakat (it is a religious thing, so they can't do it).  That is why Jizya existed.  The "Fight those" phrase was revealed during a time of war and was just a fancy way of saying "non-believers who are fighting you" ... and in this context "submission" meant either a peace treaty or a surrender (both happened at the time so I don't know).

 

The first quote is without context as that whole chapter was just saying "don't sell out your people".  I'm no scholar, but in Arabic it translates more to "uncompromising" than "hard".

 

The last thing was just a warning to muslims not to idolize as those before them have (a big thing in Islam) and the Bukhari quote was basically saying that non-believers go to hell (Abrahamic faiths have this trend in damning others ... so I guess par for the course).

 

Islam does not teach hate. If anything it teaches "solidarity" (that could be with or against something ... totally up to them) without compromise for others (a "do not yield your values" kind of thing).  Like anything it can be taken to extremes, as your implications show.

 

 

pal3stine4ever
pal3stine4ever

 @Assimilat0r 

from where you got the last one its a lie mohammad never said this go and chick your sources . 

ZiRa-Bosnia
ZiRa-Bosnia

 @Assimilat0r God is not democrat. God proclaim Good what HE think it's good, everyone who is against GOD laws is BAD. All religions (abrahamic) agree on that.  Humans are God's slaves, HE OWN US, he feed us, he created us and in the end he will take our lives from US! We own nothing.

 

And WHO ARE WE to decide what's good and what is BAD? When God already proclaimed what is good and what is bad.

 

Tell me: What IF Islam is Right path and you disobey to beleive, who is more wrong Muslim or YOU?

anvilone
anvilone moderator

 @bluefox755 A week after the Benghazi attack on the US embassy, 30,000 anti-extremist Muslims marched against the fundamentalist militias Libya.

ZiRa-Bosnia
ZiRa-Bosnia

 @bluefox755 I ask myself that every time when i criticize Christian Democratic Union in Germany who is openly against Turkey and Turkish EU membership. I'm unable to find any Christian who is ready to criticize that Decision. Even if Turkey (Ottoman Empire) had state over 550 years in the heart of Europe. Christian radicalism is making giant leap forward.

179107199999
179107199999

@bluefox755 you haven't heard about the girl who got shot by Terrorists for speaking her mind?They flew her to the UK for protection.People do speak.They just get silenenced

picho86
picho86

 @Gelugon_baat  @mac24 You can always find people who will agree on just about anything. What your point? Even if everyone agreed with him, it wouldn't automatically make them right.

bluefox755
bluefox755

 @theoldfox1891 Apologies, I tend to call things I think of as outlandish, stupid...but after the knee jerk reaction, I accept that we all have different opinions...makes life more interesting i suppose...no surprise political debate would spill over into game websites a few days before an election I suppose.

theoldfox1891
theoldfox1891

 @KgameX

I will try to answer my own question. "Is making a game out of a current conflict ethical?"

 

My answer would be, it depends.

 

We will use the hypothetical that a game has been released about the Syrian conflict. If it was a 'run and gun' in the 'arcade' mode as a member of the Free Syrain Army killing thousands of Syrian Millitary personel (or the other way around) and that was all there was to it. I would say unquestionably that it was unethical and it would be an outrage for such a thing to be made. Even though they have the right to make it. (Not arguing against free speech).

 

If however the game explores the subject maturely such as conveying the horror on the ground, the power struggle within the Free Syrian Army itself, civillian casualties/atrocities and really tries to depict what it's like and delving in to how it effects people physicaly and mentaly. The conflict of morality in realistic and fluid pressure situations for example. I would say that it is definatley ethical. And worth doing. It's reenacting real life expereinces, not making a game of them. It doesnt have to be overtly political, it can be a human study.

 

Ironically there would more than likely be a huge uproar that would stop such a thing being made (of which I would argue against to the end) as a result of the precedent set by the Medal Of Honors of this world. Thats what poeple would think you would turn it into.

 

If it were a film the argument would be wether it is too soon, not wether it should be made!

 

So I would say yes, that so much of the game industry is ethically devoid and it is such a shame becasue this format is interactive and could lead to such powerful and thought provoking material. Every realese like this is in effect devaluing the format and shooting itself in the foot to the potential it has to explore subjects and themes. The market expects and demands these shallow titles, but fortunatley people are growing tired of them.

 

Millions in spent to make dross like this MOH? Millions. It's shamefull and wrong this is all they do with it, completely pointless and a complete waste.

 

This is going to be my last post in this thread...well hopefully.

theoldfox1891
theoldfox1891

 @picho86

 Im not offended by it, but I could understand if someone in Pakistan, Somalia or Afghanistan could be. For using their turmoil as a from of escapism and entertainment.

theoldfox1891
theoldfox1891

 @_huh  @theoldfox1891

 Ok. How about business ethics? Exploiting a current war to make a product for profit. A mainstream ENTERTAINMENT product for profit out of humanitarian disaster. Sketchy ethically? I would say so.

 

Also can someone please explain to me why video games are devoid of any ethics or responisibility to a subject? All I hear is "becasue it's a video game" or "you know what you are buying".

 

We will take these arguments to the extreme. Let's say EA made a video title called 'Nonse'. You try to accumilate as many points as possible by getting as many girls/or boys under the age of 16 to undress infront of a webcam. Let's also say like the post above that the marketplace desired such a game.

 

Would you say it doesnt matter becuase "it's a video game" or "you know what you are buying" then? Or "any ethics in video games are stupid"?

 

But then of course someone will say "this is not the place to be having this discussion".

 

If someone could please elaborate on these arguments and add weight to them I might be inclined to change my position, but as yet no one has.  

Assimilat0r
Assimilat0r

 @ZiRa-Bosnia  I disobey to belive in religion of hatness. End of story.  I am really sorry for you that you are part of that confusion. I got much friends belivers from all 4 great religions, and most radical of them is muslim , most peaceful is budhist. If you can live with it so go on dont  make me to listen your propaganda. I read whole Qran like i did with Tora , Talmud , Byble and Quran is book of hatness i can quote you 30 more Suras  where it says that all are "Lower beings" except muslim.

KgameX
KgameX

 @TheBigKabosh

 Would love to see the article written, but Wolfenstein never pretended to be anything other than what it was.  Medal of Honor claims to be a bit more...really a bit less though. 

 

bluefox755
bluefox755

 @anvilone Why wasn't this headline news??? I feel foolish now for not knowing this...I mean I get the fundamentalists have the money, but without the cooperation of the people, there is no money.  One would think the fundamentalists could keep the citizens who only desire to live their life in peace, under their thumb for so long before a revolt happens, it's good to know that peaceful muslims are finally putting their foot down.

hyperbolel
hyperbolel

 @179107199999  @bluefox755  There are Muslims that try to rub elbows and get along, of course it is welcome. But it doesn't mean Islam can't be a dangerous and oppressive Ideology. There were decent Germans during naziism as well. Minority and a significant one, it's bat s**** crazy and controls a lot of money. Like urine in our drinking supply, any amount is to much.

bluefox755
bluefox755

 @179107199999  @bluefox755 I hear what you're saying, just it's so often portrayed as the extremists representing a very small part of the religion, i did hear about the girl, I hope she inspires others to speak up as well

 

bluefox755
bluefox755

 @179107199999  @bluefox755 But it's a peaceful religion right?  Only a very small minority are fundamentalist extremists...and what about the Muslim Americans, who live here in the states?

ggregd
ggregd

 @KgameX  @theoldfox1891 "You know the game industry is no more or less morally devoid than the rest of the world."  I would say it actually is.  There is an adolescent male mentality pervasive in game development that people have been increasingly complaining about.  If the games industry would grow up we wouldn't have all the sexism, xenophopia and over-reliance on violence we see in so many games but not in books, movies or other entertainment media.  People who say "It's just a game" are hiding their heads in the sand.

KgameX
KgameX

 @theoldfox1891

 You know the game industry is no more or less morally devoid than the rest of the world.  Wars such as the one in syria, and ones all over the world really are proof of this.  People are capable of wonderful acts and compasion, but on the other had we are capable of the most cruel and vile acts as well.  At the end of the day I really think EA just made a poor game.  No more no less.  Maybe next outing they will suprise us with a spellbinding journey into man's soul and our ability to cross the threshholds I just mentioned, but hahaha, I doubt it.  I really like the author Kurt Vonnegut for the way he wrote about this nature in humanity poking fun at it.  Liked reading your thoughts take it easy.      

ZiRa-Bosnia
ZiRa-Bosnia

 @Assimilat0r When God created Adam He said to Angels and some other "Everyone Bow to Him", but one of the Demons-satan refused he said "But I'm better than Adam i'm made of Fire". God said to Him "Why you refused to obey my order?" (e.g Do you think you are smarter than Me) Cursed you are" You are doing the same thing. You think that you are smarter than God's book, or even smarter than God who gave you life, whose breath you are breeding. When we all die on the day of judgement only God's laws will be valid even if you don't like them, even if you rebel. God does not need you or me, he will judge by HIS laws and will punish humans because they ignored HIS laws.

179107199999
179107199999

@hyperbolel @bluefox755 The thing is when a follower does exactly what is told and truly understands then there should be no way that radicals exist.We're taught "God made us tribes of many so we can know one another"Basically we're meant to learn about other cultures and live with them because we're all human material status means nothing. however.There are always humans who will do anything to gain power.The people who made up Hadiths did so to curry favor with the people.A lot of Rulers in the middle east are so caught up in ancient cultural traditons that they place those traditions as if they're of Al Islam.That's a sin.Its a sin because it misleads the people in to following a man's interpretation and relying on said man to be a sort of twisted saviour.Man is meant to be autonomous so we can figure out the world around us and develop our own perspective.Its not Al Islam that's dangerous.Its the people who claim killing and forcing your subjects to bow to you as a go to man for god,they're the ones who are the oppressors.They're the ones who take Al Islam out of its true meaning

179107199999
179107199999

@Ultimist @hyperbolel @bluefox755 Religion isn't a mental illness.The problem lies with man and their approach.When you understand the allegorical meanings of the books it truly tells a different story.For me fasting isn't bizarre and has helped me learn to cope with certain parts of life.Its not the fact of not eating or not having sex its lesson is to teach us that the mind is greater than the body but at the same time its to teach us that no matter what our bodies' our physical and forever until we die we'll always have those wants.Religion was suppose to help man learn his role in nature.In the begining man was a creature of instinct we had no need of laws but as evolution began and humans became more cognisant of themselves and emotions laws had to be established.

_huh
_huh

 @Ultimist  

 "Christians in the USA can be just as bat-shit crazy, if not crazier, than so-called radical Muslims."

 

---Examples?

hyperbolel
hyperbolel

 @Ultimist    Your right , Atheists have it all together like the khmer rouge. And are never unreasonable. Ha! You're missing the point, the article is about  saying  we are picking on extremists. Islamic Extremists. The kind of people ordinary Muslims should have no problem dehumanizing. Extremism isn't a cultural difference that we should accommodate or open our minds to, no it is inferior and less civilized. The same goes for all forms of Extremism. I was simply on topic, you seem to have read a little to deep into my comments and are demonstrating insecurity.

leptooners
leptooners

 @Ultimist  Give me an example of a Christian in the USA making a bomb to kill a bus full of innocent Muslim children. Or how about a Christian that bought six-thousand fully automatic assault rifles to kill as many Muslims as possible. Or give me an example of a Christian having a Muslim executed because they were a Muslim. I could go on and on. The point is, radicals will do anything it takes to make people listen to them, including kill innocent people. Innocent in reality anyway, infidel and worthy of death in the extremist eyes. Obviously not every Muslim is a radical political one, but there aren't any car bombs and IEDs in the streets of the USA, are there?

Ultimist
Ultimist

 @hyperbolel  @179107199999  @bluefox755 Christians in the USA can be just as bat-shit crazy, if not crazier, than so-called radical Muslims. Religion in itself is mental illness and usually guides most of its followers to do a lot of bizarre things and hold bizarre and unreasonable beliefs. I'm tired of Christians in the USA pretending that they are the righteous ones while vilifying people like Muslims and other religions. People are people. For every crazy Muslim in the world, 3 Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, and Protestants live in the US.

bluefox755
bluefox755

 @179107199999  @bluefox755 I can relate, most folks don't want violence, and kudos to you for marching for peace, it's a shame it's not front page everytime you guys stand up to oppression and violence, we alway hear about the violence in the middle east, but never hear about the peaceful folk standing against it, I think an internet movement representing peaceful muslims would do what the media seems to ignore...You folks are brave, remember that the majority of westerners understand that most muslims want peace.

179107199999
179107199999

@bluefox755 Though our community is small in my city we're just regular people.We marched with Christians Jews and a Biker Group because of senseless violence that happened in our neighborhood.For the most part the majority are peaceful.However I won't lie.There are negative elements out there.I haven't met any yet though.Also Most Middle Eastern people came to America to escape the choke hold of their governments