Feature Article

How to Fix Final Fantasy

Final Fantasy Finale.

Final Fantasy is broken.

With Lightning Returns, it has become clear that Square Enix is suffering from a crisis of imagination, caught between a desire to give players what we want while still searching for the creative energy to deliver something we've never seen before. I believe, however, that with Toriyama's trilogy past us, Final Fantasy XV could become the great crystal hope we've been aching for. And to make that so, FFXV director Tetsuya Nomura should heed the lessons of the FFXIII games--the greatest of which is that blindly pursuing sales and creative trends without understanding the reasons for their successes leads you into traps that are difficult to escape.

The beginning of the end? It depends on who you ask.

Seeking Inspiration from the Proper Places

I have often said that the games I adore the most are not those created by developers trying to give me what I wanted, but those I didn't know I wanted until I had them. Most good developers collect data based on how people play their games, focus test their creation in various stages of development, and ask for direct feedback from fans. Portal developer Valve famously collects information on when players die and engages in exhaustive playtesting to fine-tune their games, for instance, though it is ultimately up to creators to determine how to use this data, and when direct feedback must be filtered through the designer's vision, or just disregarded entirely. Try to make everyone happy, and you lose sight of your goals--and as former Civilization lead designer Jon Shafer once stated, "most failed games suffer a lack of focus."

Is this the best game to be inspiring Final Fantasy

On one hand, it's laudable that Final Fantasy XIII director Motomu Toriyama would incorporate ideas from successful games--but like other Japanese developers, Toriyama saw Call of Duty as the standard-setter, hoping to replicate its success without understanding what makes it so successful. Ace Combat director Kazutoki Kono rode the same wave with Ace Combat: Assault Horizon, producing a shallow game with lots of pizzazz but little passion. By chasing a trend, Kono sacrificed a vision he once believed in. Toriyama traveled a similar path on the way to Final Fantasy XIII, telling Tech Digest, "we're more interested in things such as first person shooters like Call of Duty. They give a better sense of tension on the battlefield. We sometimes draw inspiration from those sorts of games. It's not just RPGs but FPS titles that get us excited."

Games with big worlds really can tell good stories.

Meanwhile, even most first-person shooters fail to re-create the set-piece-focused style of Call of Duty in any meaningful way. Yet Toriyama was adamant that the best way to tell a great story is to lead the player down a narrow path. "When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like... [It] becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom," Toriyama told Xbox World 360 in 2010. This statement has proven a self-fulfilling prophecy: Lightning Returns is not only the most open of the XIII trilogy, but also tells the weakest story by a significant margin. However, talented game developers like Rockstar, Rocksteady, and Xenoblade Chronicles studio Monolith Soft have proven that a big world featuring seemingly endless freedom can also be home to a great story. The problem isn't that writers can't tell great stories in open worlds; the problem is that Toriyama can't.

With Final Fantasy XIII-2, Toriyama changed his approach. In 2011, he told Xbox Achievements, "our main goal with XIII-2 was listening to what people thought of XIII. A lot of people were unhappy, so we wanted to answer to those voices." He still admitted to finding some inspiration from Red Dead Redemption, referring to the "bit where you actually ride a horse," and again leading me to question whether he can identify what causes games like Red Dead to earn such accolades. "The fact that you can receive missions almost anywhere in the world" is not an innovation unique to that game, and it makes me wonder about the claustrophobic bubble within which Square Enix is crafting its games.

With Tetsuya Nomura at the helm of the Final Fantasy XV team, the series' overall direction is looking up. The game features a large world traversable in a variety of ways--airship, chocobo, and so forth--though it also harbors shooter elements, though so little is known about these elements that it's hard to guess at just how prominent they might be. I hope, however, that Nomura trusts in his own concepts, and is less concerned with casting Final Fantasy in the Call of Duty mold. At the very least, I hope that if Nomura finds inspiration in Western games, he finds it in games that allow Final Fantasy to mature. I don't want Square to create the game they think we want; I want them to create the game we didn't know we couldn't live without until we have it.

More than one of Final Fantasy's best characters are depicted above. What was it that made them so beloved?

Creating Relatable Characters

You could argue that Final Fantasy XIII's story was no stunning victory, as much as I personally enjoyed it. I liked Lightning then, but she did not carry the game on her own, and I didn't much miss her in Final Fantasy XIII-2. For some reason, however, Square was banking on Lightning's ability to carry a game on her own, so much so that Toriyama stripped away the party dynamic completely in Lightning Returns. And without an ensemble for her to interact with, Lightning was bled of her appeal, left to mope on her own while reciting repetitive dialogue that turned simple situations into tangled webs of metaphors and religious allegories. Harry Potter had Ron and Hermione to guide him through his relatable turmoil; Luke Skywalker had Han Solo, C-3PO, and other companions to give context to his normalcy. Lightning Returns is like a disappointing sitcom spinoff--the Joanie Loves Chachi to Final Fantasy XIII's Happy Days. Without the proper group of friends to support them, some characters simply wither.

I wouldn't call Harry Potter or Luke Skywalker weak characters: they grounded us in strange new worlds. They showed identifiable growth, and we could empathize with them because their situations were familiar, even when the worlds they inhabited were not. Harry was a savior, certainly, but he was also a gawky kid coming to grips with a cruel professor and bullying schoolmates. Luke Skywalker wanted to make something of himself--to break free from a mundane life and see the galaxy beyond a simple farm. Lightning wants to see Serah. That's it. That's what she wanted in Final Fantasy XIII, and again in Lightning Returns. In a world filled with unfamiliar concepts with funny names like fal'Cie, l'Cie, and Cie'th, we need drama we can be invested in. And drama results when the plot follows from the needs and desires of the characters, rather than the characters serving as plot points first and foremost.

Perhaps this is why I appreciate Final Fantasy XII as the underpraised gem of the series: it was about people and politics, rather than gods and lifestreams. And consider the widely beloved Final Fantasy VI. It wasn't about saving the world, not really. In fact, the world is destroyed halfway through the game, in one of the great unexpected developments in role-playing history. The aspects of the story that I remember most fondly aren't the plot points, however, but the moments that defined and deepened the characters. Shadow may seem as stoic as Lightning, but his stoicism hid a touching backstory that you uncover through his dreams. Shadow masked his pain; Lightning's pain is front and center, and nothing is masked. Her quietness veils… more quietness.

In a world filled with unfamiliar concepts with funny names like fal'Cie, l'Cie, and Cie'th, we need drama we can be invested in.

Saving the world is fine and all, but dealing with classroom bullies is no mean feat, either.

Toriyama insists that Lightning is a well-loved heroine. He recently told Siliconera, "we know that Lightning is an extremely popular character, even when compared to other Final Fantasy characters." She's already appeared in Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn--no surprise, given that she makes a remark in Lightning Returns that she'll have to visit Eorzea at some point in the future. (I'm sure that the story gymnastics Square performed to justify the crossover are exhausting.) I'm not sure where Toriyama gets his figures from, and perhaps Square's market research has led him to that conclusion. My guess, however, is that Toriyama himself is so enamored of Lightning that he’s unwilling to leave the character behind, even if her presence is at the detriment of the game.

And so now, attention turns to Final Fantasy XV's Noctis Lucis Caelum, who must break free from the shackles of cliche, and the shackles of a game designer’s infatuation with a digital avatar. The time has passed when we could accept the Moeblob (the chirpy girl with no other definable character trait), the orphaned hero, and the monosyllabic brooder as the best ensemble cast available. It's time to create people, not "types."

At very least, I crave a good villain, a strong foil for the hero's willing (or unwilling) sense of duty. Perhaps it's no wonder that I think Caius Ballad is the best character of the XIII trilogy; he's the logical evolution of the tortured malefactor best personified by Final Fantasy VII's Sephiroth. Final Fantasy XIII did not reveal its villain until well into the game, and Lightning Returns doesn't feature an omnipresent villain in its usual sense. If it provides a protagonist worth rooting for and a villain we love to hate--or even legitimately love--Final Fantasy XV could be an important step in Final Fantasy's evolution.

This is not Final Fantasy. But why not?

Reestablishing an Identity

You may have heard that Bravely Default is the best Final Fantasy games in years, though it is not, in fact, part of the Final Fantasy brand.

Why not?

Bravely Default began as a Final Fantasy game, after all. According to Bravely Default producer Tomoya Asanowe, “originally, in the early planning stages, [we] were looking at this project as a sequel to Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light.” Eventually, however, a new brand was born; says Asanowe, "we have also incorporated lots of interesting new elements that have not been seen in games in that series up till now."

Why is a giant bird Final Fantasy's most recognizable remaining element?

I question, however, that introducing interesting new elements required abandoning the Final Fantasy brand. Each new Final Fantasy game introduces new elements, from novel combat systems, to wholly new worlds, to new methods of character advancement. Aspects I have often associated with Final Fantasy--full adventuring parties, for instance--haven’t appeared in every mainline entry, leaving few defining characteristics. Chocobos. Moogles. The victory theme. The arpeggiated main theme. The spell names. Beyond these factors, what makes a Final Fantasy game what it is? It strikes me that Square Enix has retained what matters least for Final Fantasy’s identity, and has discarded what matters most. Perhaps it’s heresy to say such a thing, but I’d gladly give up moogles if it means being rewarded with a tonally consistent role-playing game. I’d never miss chocobos if I could explore a unique world with a group of adventurers that break free of ancient archetypes.

Reestablishing the Final Fantasy identity isn’t just a matter of copying past successes, however. It's easy to look back on previous Final Fantasy games and cite the ways in which they are superior to the series' recent outings. I have personally mentioned other Final Fantasies as examples of properly-delivered tropes, but if Final Fantasy is to grow, Square Enix must be willing to break free of the past and prove its ability to discern between innovation and gimmickry.

The problem isn't that writers can't tell great stories in open worlds; the problem is that Toriyama can't.

Hope. And not the annoying kind of Hope, but the good kind.

What is that difference? It's the difference between Final Fantasy IV's active time battles, and Lightning Returns' countdown clock. It's the difference between Final Fantasy III's job system, and Final Fantasy XIII's crystarium. Innovations give us new ways to play games, and change the manner with which the game's systems unfold. Gimmicks introduce change for change's sake, without regard for how that change impacts the elements around it. In some ways, it comes back to Jon Shafer's call for focus: innovations are often solutions to problems or avenues for delivering new ideas, while gimmicks are bolted on whether or not they complement the game as a whole. The former stems from great focus; the latter, from lack thereof.

Toriyama’s view regarding what makes a Final Fantasy game is relatively clear, at least: it must be pretty, above all other concerns. As he told Tech Digest, “We set out to create something with a greater visual impact, something more spectacular that is only possible when you separate the field and the battle data.” By now, however, it’s abundantly clear that being pretty is not an identity in and of itself. Here’s hoping that Final Fantasy XV is pretty--but that the beauty doesn’t come at the expense of the wonder of exploring a new world, and at the expense of the deep systems that make role-playing games so exciting to play.

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Discussion

1582 comments
stewnwt
stewnwt

The other thing Square needs to do is look at what games were successful or well loved.


Two examples I can think of are the Lunar series, which were the ultimate meat and potatoes JRPG, but did it with great style and a sense of humour. 


An even better example would be Skies of Arcadia (I played Legends on the Gamecube). Nothing in that game was spectacular and it was full of standard tropes but it just did everything so WELL, had a pretty damn good story, had tons of boss battles, side quests, unlockable secret content and introduced something a little new with the ship battles and the Cupil growth. Bravely Default is similar in that it doesn't break the mold but is a blast to play because all of the basic things are just done SO well (I could rave about the excellent menu system for half an hour, just basic stuff like that which developers get lazy with). 


And look at games that had a lot of potential but were crippled by major flaws - take the good things from them and improve upon them. A great example is Shining Tears for the PS2 - had so much potential to be an awesome Mana style action RPG but the combo moves were broken, the enemy AI and limited episode maps were quite poor (instead of a continuous over world Mana or Evermore style). But it still managed to be fun to play in spite of that as it had a fantastic cast of characters and great music. Work on combining the battle system of games such as the Tales series and Valkyrie Profile 2 for example. 


FFXIII was a failure on innumerable levels, but the linearity and artificially enforced single player combat system were among the most destructive. 


Lots of adults play games now as well and want to play them socially. More multiplayer RPGs please!

stewnwt
stewnwt

"I have often said that the games I adore the most are not those created by developers trying to give me what I wanted, but those I didn't know I wanted until I had them. "


No. No. A thousand times NO. 


This is the quintessential problem with Square-Enix which the rest of the video game industry seems to understand (Halo 4, Mario Kart 8, Diablo III, WoW, Zelda series, hell even Marty Party 10). Give us more of what we want. Stop trying to TELL us what we want. Which is what the producers over at Squenix have been doing ever since the PS2. 


We want a fantasy based FF series that doesn't look like it was lifted from one of George Lucas' mind numbing creative abortions (aka the Star Wars prequels). 


We want an actual sequel to Secret of Mana that uses the same combat mechanics and has MULTIPLAYER the way the first one did that made it so popular. 


We'd prefer gorgeous 2D games that don't suck over gorgeous 3D games that do. 


Bravely Default is amazing because it's what Final Fantasy 9 should have been - a good cast of characters and good villains (seriously, thong wearing Kuja?). I agree FF12 had some fantastic characters but a shitty villain and the plot really fell apart near the end of the game. I liked that they tried something new with the battle system - I'd rather they improved on that and made it more interactive maybe Secret of Mana style rather than reinvent the wheel every time out. 


You point out that Nomura seems in love with Lightening - she was a great character in concept but the piss poor execution of FFXIII ruined her. Time to relegate her to the dustbin of history. 

crustosser
crustosser

We need emotionally involved characters, so that everything around them has a deep meaning so that nothing is left mundane. Complex villains going from power hungry self centered a**holes to tortured souls finding meanings in blind devotions and reacting through flaws and personal wounds from past experience.  We need all the small elements to have such meaning that when looking from perspective creates as a whole a deep tale of struggles, grinding for happiness and purpose.  And adding different races to the party to deepen differences between them, bringing several fresh perspectives on life and mixing it up so that there's constant tension and argument but through the story evolving to camaraderie and selflessness for a common goal for a greater good.

Personally I like the active time battle system; I think that there is a lot that can be done to deepen it.  When I first saw final fantasy x, the battles were so beautiful and in your face, camera angles focusing on a great sword strike or jumping with a spear or the limit breaks in ff7, how awesome were the attacks right?, it really felt like your beating the heck out of em, with style and aggression.  The battles should be involving, each strike counts and given a lot of focus instead of having everyone attacking all at once while the enemies is also doing that, it break the Jrpg into a big clash that you merely see what's happening and can't enjoy it since everything is so fast, always smashing buttons on your controller.  It's my opinion but I prefer genre sticking to its roots and evolving from that, otherwise if you’re going to change it and making it another genre, than make something fresh instead with another name.  A final fantasy is Jrpg, not an action movie or a shooter... when you've got legions of hardcore fans that stuck since the beginning, it is not because you are doing something to please them but because your evolving your product constantly making it more and more of what it is and getting better at it, that's how you keep them, the fan band will always get bigger that way...but if you change the recipe and instead of making great variations of pasta you start making tofu plates, well no wonder the fans get disappointed, a lot of them just don’t like tofu!  Just like resident evil, its survival horror and there is a whole lot to improve what it is instead of making it a shooter.


As far as the world goes, it should feel like an adventure, discovering secret areas, bunch of side quests but attached with meaning so it’s not just going in there, kill a few baddies get the treasure and bye bye.  We need some locations with history, a story to tell, even if it’s just told in the layouts or with the landscape, just something that you can get a little attached to, creating an atmosphere.  And what about having some chest with more than just one item in it heh?  Going through long corridors battling beasties to get one phoenix down, or a hi-potion, it’s getting too predictable, I enjoyed monster-in-a-box, sometimes it would kick your ass if not prepared, we need to be surprised and get our a** handed from time to time so that it feels fresh and challenging.  And most of all... remember the times when you could beat a game with all side-quests without relying on walkthrough's! It was hard but it was doable, now they make the games so that you need a walkthrough to complete all side-quests, where's the sense of accomplishment in that!!! Example: final fantasy x had insanely complexes ways to get the ultimate weapons for each characters, without a walkthrough it was just impossible, was not cool at all, on the other hand final fantasy 7 had a lot of content for the keen explorer, it was difficult, going from breeding chocobos, exploring every nooks and cranny of every dungeons but it was doable, at that time the only thing I didn’t beat was the ruby weapon in the desert, but that was on me, cause everything else I did.  It was all doable without a walkthrough!


I think they are doing well as far as the different ways to <level up> characters, crystarium, the nodes, even if some are better than others.  I think the materia learning system in ff7 was awesome, a huge variations of summons, skills and magic. 


On a last note... bravery default was pretty cool, i would've loved for the villains to be more serious rather than cartoonish, but even though its not titled ff, its defenitvely one the great ones.  I wanna mention ff dimensions on the app store, enjoyed the hardcore old school style, 5 characther battles totally rock's and the multiple characters stories was well done and entertaining, well done square enix ;)


krazken
krazken

Different people enjoy Final Fantasy for different reasons. For me, I like character development, story, and the sense of exploration and discovery. I felt like FFXIII was weak on all these fronts.


I've finished every other Final Fantasy, but I quit playing XIII about 40 hours into the game, annoyed with the cheesy voice overs and linear maps. I watched a play through on Youtube and found out that I really didn't miss out on anything.

rynn21
rynn21

Final Fantasy X was the last Final Fantasy game I truly enjoyed playing from start to finish.

Gankstar_VX84
Gankstar_VX84

FF games have gone downhill because of their desire for perfection and the engines they use. They've become more and more linear. Most people fondly.. lovingly remember FF10. I do.. but the first  fk knows how long was basically one long road you follow untill you get a few more paths and then back to another long road. I honestly don't know why it has to be so linear.  When I play a FF I wanna see people laugh love die and conquer, thats what FF is about... Hell if u wanna innovate push the boat out make a generational story, show how the world has changed 3- years later, etc there's loads they can do. Instead they are all one linear corridor-shooter esque adventure that plays like a manga.

WeWerePirates
WeWerePirates

Being in the midst of playing the FFXIII trilogy I can't really agree with a lot of this.


First of all it's not really how to fix Final Fantasy but a hatchet job on Toriyama, carried out primarily by pulling quotes out of context which isn't really fair.


As to the defining qualities of Final Fantasy, no it's not just Chocobos, Moogles and Firaga. It's about being a big visual experience and delivering something new each time. Change is a defining quality. Final Fantasy as a series is an anthology of course it's going to be tough to pin down the elements beyond the obvious ones that connect them. However, even if you stripped out those elements I think you could still identify the Final Fantasy games.

It's easy to forget how much times have changed. FFIV had a main production staff of 14 and took a year to make, I don't know about VI but it was probably not vastly bigger. How many hands made FFXIII. When we compare FFVI to later games we give it a free pass on so much, its graphics, its (lack of) voice acting, its combat mechanics, its script. It's easy to focus on the good, we cherry pick from our memories and we are blase about the technical achievements of modern games. Of course it's not fair to compare FFVI by modern standards, but that runs both ways. Progress is a double edged sword.


Personally I was really disappointed with FFXIII when it first came out but I've made my peace with it. FFX is now fondly remembered but it took a lot of flack and unfavourable comparisons to FFVI in its time too. FFVII still gets the FFVI is better treatment but assertions are just that; I could say FFVII is better than FFVI but that would just be my opinion. FFXIII isn't bad it's just disappointing and I think its crisis of identity is a sign of the wider crisis of identity in JRPGs during its creation. Toriyama had a tough job since FFXIII was the great hope for bringing the JRPG back after a time when it fallen out of favour. He didn't succeed at that but he didn't make a bad game by any reasonable measure. I also think as a trilogy FFXIII is greater than the sum of its parts.

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

Dears Final Fantasy need a deep and memorable storyline with unexpected turn of events to impress us once again, and inside that storyline must have be charismatic characters with distinguished personalities,that way we can feel their feelings and get attached to them so that we can laugh and cry with them depending on the situation that helps the immersion tremendously, the antagonists can't be spared as well they have to be cunning,evil and intelligent to come up with plans that will bring the good guys to their limits and the gameplay must have everything that a JRPG can offer,exploration,free roam,quests,minigames and sidestories [yes secondary characters MUST have their time to shine too!],it is also very important to have decent OST and BCG musics that can depict the situation like Uematsu always cared to implement, i'm sure that many fans of FF like me deserve to see all that again.

Rottenwood
Rottenwood

"He still admitted to finding some inspiration from Red Dead Redemption, referring to the 'bit where you actually ride a horse.'"


That might be the greatest thing I've ever read.  Imagine if this guy ever plays Golden Axe, where you ride a dragon.  He'll have a coronary.



Retroxgamer0
Retroxgamer0

i agree, there is nothing wrong with final fantasy at all, the fans seem to be the problem. i have no problem enjoying most final fantasy games from 7 to 13, and i'm in love with the retooled ff14 realm reborn. also, when i looked at the picture stating "more of one final fantasy character above is so loved, why?" none of those characters appeal to me that much. the answer to your question is probably blind nostalgia. my favorite ff characters so far, are cloud, lightning, and zidane, in that order.
 final fantasy 6 really isn't as big as people make it out to be, i think people just can't take their nostalgia goggles off. i love retro games, heck i even gave myself a screen name reflecting that, but i take the games for what they are, not the experience i had..because then that would just be bias. ff games have progressed and improved so much since 6. i've already been playing ffxiv realm reborn more hours than i ever played ff6.

resident_jisen
resident_jisen

final fantasy is not broken. It's only the players that are broken. players can be fixed too.  As for i'm a fan true fan of final fantasy(there may be more of you out there to)you play the games and enjoy them.you may have your favorites.but you never trash any game as a whole.for me my favorites are 7,10,10-2 and 13 series.        

daveydark
daveydark

final fantasy died when they made part 10 no game was good after 9 if your a real finalfan like me.

anime_rpg_fan
anime_rpg_fan

I like FF13,  FF13-2 and LR:Ff13 while FF13 seems harder to grasp the battle system then the games that came out before. and it sucked that if whoever you are controlling dies its is game over, FF13-2 fixed and along with LR:FF13 It won't be game over right away with the right item.

bgranli
bgranli

I don't have high hopes for FFXV, I wish I did.

The game will be pretty and the gameplay looks promising, but that's not what makes a great Final Fantasy game, it needs a good cast and a solid story. 

In regards to storytelling, Nomura makes up stuff as he goes. I loved Kingdom Hearts, it had a charming story and a lovable cast; it felt like a proper Square-Disney blend. Then we got Kingdom Hearts II, and it mutated into a convoluted Nomura-beast. I read this comment about Kingdom Hearts that pretty much sums up my beef with the writing: "...when you tell your story in such a way that's spread out in multiple games, over multiple consoles, and each new game gives new information that makes you see previous information in a different light, you can imagine things get a little confusing.  There's also how some key points aren't stated in-game (Roxas's ability to dual-wield being a common question), and not everyone reads Nomura's interviews.  I probably wouldn't have been able to understand KH without outside help, but if you need outside help for things to add up, whether from interviews or other people, I don't think you're telling your story right."

And then there's Nomura's character designs. A lot of people love his J-rock aesthetic (and his obvious fascination with Gackt), but I find it to be occasionally tasteless and tacky. I wil admit that his style does work in more stylized games like The Word Ends With You, I actually find him to be a pretty good designer when the graphics aren't too realistic. However, FFXV's graphics are very realistic and the characters appear to be moody and serious; that creates a dissonance for me. I just can't take the overdesigned characters seriously. That's why I had problems with OrgXIII in KH2. Some of the people at Square are arguably more worried about creating characters with flashy designs that pleases the cosplayer community rather than creating relatable characters with actual personality. 

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

The franchise will be restored when SE decided to hear the  fans once again, but i wonder IF that will happen.

captainbrak
captainbrak

It seems like they have forgotten how to build characters.  The last character in a FF game that showed growth was Ashe in FF12, but even your main character Vaan was completely irrelevant to the main story other than wanting to be a pirate.


Lightning has no supporting cast this time which makes interactions seem mundane.  Her message is sent from "God", and the entire thing seems like a big jumble of quest gathering and completing.  At least in FF9 you saw growth in Zidane, in Dagger, in Vivi.  Final Fantasy 7 you saw Cloud's growth, hell even Cid's growth when it came to Shera.  You also saw Red XIII's when he sees his father and of course Aeris.

You can date this character building all the way back to FF2 with Maria and Firion.  This is not a weird thing.  Books do a great job of this, hence why people prefer reading at times over TV or movies because it can give a better understanding of character growth.

WTB Character development?  Yes, please!

Eldeorn
Eldeorn

People that dont see the beauty of FF13-series just dont "get it". The battle system is top notch, the music and audio is great, the visuals is awesome and the flow of the game is good despite the dull and pointless storyline. Sure, FF13-1 was linear, but what did it matter when the actual combat (which was the main goal of the game) was so awesome? Minds you, this is when taking into account that you could improve the speed and efficiency by ALOT by NOT using the auto combat X buttong mashing. Combat was way more fun and efficient if you did things manually.

Many people keep complaining about how they should remake FF7 this and that, but come on, if SE kept making FF6/7 games, people would STILL complain that they never change.

Also, consider this: If you were a game designer, would YOU be willing to dedicate your ENTIRE life to just make one game, one battle system and one design? No, didnt think so. So give them a break. If you want to play FF6 again, play the original, or look for alternatives to fill in for it. Accept that the designers (and SE) moves on and evovle the series to something else than what has alreayd been made.

/Peace

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@WeWerePirates  Honey Final Fantasy is a JRPG what defines it are the common gameplay elements,story [the franchise name is an allusion for that] and other minor aspects like chocobos,moogles, airships and summons that was introduced later, FFXIII ''saga'' failed to incorporate the most basic aspects of a JRPG[ the gameplay itself] and that is the reason behind the failure,they could try something new but they DEFINITELY had to maintain the traditional gameplay elements otherwise the game would be obsolete as a JRPG that is what happened with FFXIII ''saga'' this fact can't be erased, your comment is mostly based in opinions and they have no value against Kevin review.

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@Retroxgamer0  Honey youre such a blind and delusional novice gamer nothing that you said maked any sense, you said you love ''retro'' games but you failed to see the depth of FF6 story and if you don't know that if the most important factor in a FF game,judging by the way you dislike the origins of the franchise i would say that you don't appreciated the limitations of those games like the gameplay and the 2D scenarios, it's better for you to shut up honey youre talking about something you don't understand.

travadinho
travadinho

@Retroxgamer0  You know, don't take any offense to this but you sound like a younger gamer.  The beauty of FF6 was it was waaaaaaaayy ahead of its time in terms of writing.  And honestly, it was better written than most newer games.  


Most fans of FF13 seem to be younger gamers.  And, to boot, most people who really reacted strongly against FF13 seemed to be players who have been around long enough to have at least played 6-7 upon release.  I really don't think it is simply nostalgia.  The 13 series really appears to just be a money grab.  Sorry but the games were released too close together temporally to have really taken seriously thought/planning.  Maybe they actually put some soul into FF13 (I don't think that is really even the case), but the rest of the trilogy embarrasses me.  I'd actually be embarrassed to have people over and those are in my collection.  

travadinho
travadinho

@daveydark  No sir.  FF9 was weak and too childish, not only for me, but for many a gamers I know.  

Belz_
Belz_

@daveydark Interesting. So anyone who disagrees with you is not a real fan.

ashxgeist
ashxgeist

@bgranli On point there sir. Personally, Nomura's current character designs are getting tiring and a bit repetitive. They all pretty much look the same, and they are definately oversytlized, to the j-pop/j-rock cosplay persuasion. The only people still fans of his work are weeboos who love anything japanese and popular by japanese standard. Final Fantasy is becoming as shallow as popular japanese culture. I agree the only game I saw was pretty fitting in its design was "The World End With You." However, in FF Type-0, it's hard to take a lot of the charcter designs serious with the setting and tone of the game. People barely mention FFXII, which did an amazing job with character and world design (well, there was Vaan....), as well as being a very underappreciated game, if anything for the reason that the battle system was drastically different. Otherwise, the game did everything else right, and I was glad it didn't have a cliche' world crisis scenario and had a story and focus a little more believable with more realistic characters.

travadinho
travadinho

@cory_vet_gamer  Sorry but screw the fans.  And I mean that to say "Hey! Don't worry about what the fans want!  Make a good game and we'll take care of the rest!"  I'm a fan and so I don't mean screw you personally or anything.  


Fans never really know what they want until they can complain about it after they think they never got whatever it is they think they need.  


Look at what happens when artists start concerning themselves with what fans want.  They make trite, souless music.  

stewnwt
stewnwt

@Eldeorn the only thing top notch about 13 is the graphics. The battle system is interesting but very constricting. The music is passable. That's about it. The rest is just crap. And worse, it's boring crap. 

ashxgeist
ashxgeist

@Eldeorn The comparisons and praise for FFVI emerged mainly for the fact that people wanted to shut up the loud VII fanboys by pointing out that FFVII had much to owe to FFVI, and that in terms of story, it did nothing new that FFVI hadn't already. I find it odd that Square Enix won't touch this game to do a remake though they have with most of the pre-FFVII games. Maybe it would be too good or equal or overshadow VII a bit, who knows.

marcusknight963
marcusknight963

@Eldeorn  The only good things about XIII are the audio and visuals. All these new FF games have to offer are battles over and over and over again. The things that makes older ff games great are the towns, relatable characters, memorable music, epic stories, collecting items and equipment, and the immersement in the world. It's those moments in between the battles that make them memorable and special. 


Final fantasy XIII was literally: run down path, battle, run down path, battle, run down path, cut scene, boss,cut scene, next area, run down path, battle, run down path, cut scene, battle, run some more, cut scene, and boss... it pretty goes on like that the entire game. That's some b.s right there, on top of that they added auto battle and an inability to actually get a game over, witch pretty much removed exactly what made turned based battles challenging and stimulating. this makes the entire flow of the game never stop moving, you're always running forward getting into battle after battle and you never really get to just venture out on your own and stop for a while to immerse yourself in the world and interact with it.

sure you get to explore that big field in chapter 11, but that's 20 hours into the game and your basically doing there what you were already doing the entire game witch is get into battle after battle with nothing else to interact with or experience in between to balance out the gameplay.


Also, consider this: if you were a game designer and you wanted to make different games, wouldn't you just make different games? You shouldn't keep calling everything the same name even though they're gonna have totally different characteristics... I'm sure if FFXIII had come out being called something totally different that had nothing to do with FF, it would have been wayyy more successful.

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@Eldeorn  Top notch honey? that's amusing the first game don't even have a gameplay, the second one is all about backtracks to pick an specific item to continue with the story and the third have that abominable countdown that severely cripped the gameplay not to mention that you are forced to end the game many times to complete everything, the protagonist never showed any identifiable growth she started this abominable ''saga'' as a robot and ended it in the same way i can't remember another game so mediocre and dull like FFXIII and it's sequels thanks god that this nightmare is over...or not?FFXV proved to be another game that don't possess the standards of the franchise and elements i pray that it don't turn out to be another failure, you don't know this franchise so beware what you say there's nothing great about the battle system the first game was all about button spam,auto battle and the obsolete paradigms, the second one is exactly the same the only difference is the quantity of members in battle the third game is a minor improvement depcting free movements during battle and the absence of the standard paradigms from the previous games, the musics are great? Hamauzu created a lot of pop based musics without any deep significance for those games they are not like the previous games Uematsu knew the exact moment and place to play his lyrics everything matched perfectly and thanks for that his lyrics are memorable for us, graphics? really honey? this is the last gen what else you could expect? it doesn't help much when the game itself failed to be a JRPG so it's useless to comment that and that is your definition of evolution? your idea of evolution is doubtful honey they discarted the standards of the franchise and the elements of a JRPG with all this nonsense SE strayed from the origins of the franchise if they wanted to try something new they DEFINITELY have to maintain the essence of the genre it's something very important that they don't considered when developing the abominable FFXIII ''saga''.

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@travadinho  Yes honey 6 was a masterpiece it was my favorite i wished a remake of the game [ considering that they will not mess up with everything of course], most of those novice gamers never played a FF game before they only play now because it was twisted to attract their attention and when they open their mouths to show their ''love'' or fool themselves stating their opinions as facts they amuse me even more.

stewnwt
stewnwt

@ashxgeist @bgranli agree with everything you said. Balthier, Basch and Ashe in particular are among the best designed characters in the series. Vaan and his hair are another story. 


And the over designed bullcrap really started with FF8 but took full flight with X. 

ashxgeist
ashxgeist

@travadinho @cory_vet_gamer You mean like the constant bitching about a FFVII remake that I'm sure even most staff at Square Enix have grown to loathe with constant comparisons?

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@travadinho  Honey you are generalizing... there are two audiences the veteran gamers and the novice gamers in that comment i was refering myself about us the veteran gamers,the novice gamers never know what they want but not us we know this franchise very well we miss it's origins and it's exactly what we want back it' the minimum SE could do, about your last setence you think that is the case honey? no the SE former team of skilled programmers and iconic composers like uematsu left THAT is why FF lost it's shine.

Eldeorn
Eldeorn

@marcusknight963 @Eldeorn

"I'm sure if FFXIII had come out being called something totally different that had nothing to do with FF, it would have been wayyy more successful."

Which is the same as admitting that it is a good game. If people only judge a game based on what name it has, they are being childishly subjective, shallow and frankly not the kind of people one should listen to when deciding if a game is worth a try. Even worse if you actually know it's a good game but still say it sucks unless the name is different.

Its not the name that defines what a game is, its the content and gameplay. I would think CoD MP and BF sucks no matter what they call it, for the same reasons, because I dont like modern war shooters, period.

Granted, if a person give it a honest consideration and then says it's boring, it's their opinion, which is fine. Sadly it's way too common that people like or dislike all sorts of things for all the wrong reasons (what other say, because everyone else plays it, because its popular to hate on, etc and so on). There's a name for that kind of people: Sheep or juveniles.

You are correct that the story in many of the earlier iterations is way better compared to ff13-1 and -2 (cant judge -3 yet, havent finished it). The atmosphere of the world and the combat however, is really good in all FF13's. Good enough for me to disregard the lacking story and shallow characters. Yes, even that whiny annoying snot-nosed crybaby Hope, which I hate more than any other character.

Eldeorn
Eldeorn

@cory_vet_gamer"you don't know this franchise so beware what you say"

And how exaclty do I not know the franchise? I played all main FF titles except 1-4. I know enough. But unlike you, I can enjoy two different games even if they by a mysterious reason share the same alphabetical letters in the main menu.

Your definition of "gameplay" is out in the woods. Super mario has practially none of the things you mention as gameplay, yet it's beloved for it's gameplay.

There's shitloads of gameplay in FF13. The combat, the strategies involved, ways to improve your killing speed, figuring out how to connect the dots and kill certain near-impossible beasts without replaying the game 20 times or reading guides, and on and on and on, and yes it even has a story, even if not the best one in the world. I give you that the characters are probably the worst part, but even if Lightning was a a "cool" character with a stone face, at least she wasnt an annoying cry-baby like Hope. Sure she didnt have much personality growth, but her combat skills changed and improved, and that is the most important part for the gameplay itself (the part where the player plays the game you know... story is not game "play").

X mashing? Really? And how many atttempts did it take for you to beat the game? Many obviously, if you relied on auto combat for everything - if you played it that is. Fact is, it was the least efficient way of killing stuff, and it's your loss for not being able to figure that part out. Half the fun was to know what to use instead of relying on poorly composed auto queues. By my second playthrough I had killed all the bosses and big hunt in the game, and it was simply not possible by being lazy and use auto combat alone, it took way more than that. Say otherwise and you're either a liar or havent played the game yourself.

You know, it's possible to enjoy a game that does not have the absolute best story of all time, or even a story at all. Action and combat, seeing different worlds, amazing creatures, stunning scenery, visual effects and enjoyable music - are also valid reasons to enjoy a game.

As for the music. Yeah, Nobuo Uematsu is a once in a life time genious, and frankly it's rather unrealistic to expect anyone to fill his shoes, especially when combined with the creator of ff1-x. FF13 music is still quite good, and fit's the atmosphere of the game rather good (sci-fi, painting an audio picture of the surroundings and visuals if you will). Nobuo's music was more often - even if not always - focused on fitting in with the mood of the story rather than the enviroment, that's the difference. Me personally, see good value in both ways.

Which brings me to one of my points. I personally dont care much about people in general. Im more interested in things, places, impressions (audio, visual and artistic), epic buildings, enviroments, exploration and discovery. The latest games brings all that, and alot of it. Sure, it's not as good as FF7-9 as a complete experience, but it's not so bad that it deserves all this hate just beacuse of the damn title. SE still makes good, true JRPG, that just happens to be called Bravely Default instead of FF. A name switched places - Im sure even an infant can manage to figure out that you just have to play the one that you do like instead and stop bothering about what title it has.

Also, who are you - honey - to dictate what they should make and what to call it? Its their product, not a religion or tradition that somehow imposes on your style of life, unless you have issues. They invest many millions in making a game they can and want to make, for the people that do like it (and there are plenty of those). They dont owe you anything or have to strictly follow what you believe is the only path they can take. You yourself paid perhaps $600-$1000 (guessing) for all their FF games? ...and gotten very good value for that money, more than any other type of entertainment. Sure they need to sell to have money for next game, but to begin with, they started out with 0 games made, where they invested their own time and money, so I'd say that people owe THEM for getting months or years of entertainment for so little money.

Also, and this is a bit of a problem, the console market these days demand games - RPG or not - to be 3d, to be free roam, to be immersive and non-repetitive, with lots of story, voice acting, quests, high fidelity textures, and so on and so forth. The scope of such a project, to make for example a true FF7-9 with current or next gen fidelity that looks as good or better than FF13 is simply not possible without spending shittons of money in hope of a profit many years down the line.
Dont compare Skyrim, GTAV or such games, because those only have a few mechanics replicated in a few different styles of enviroment where they reuse ALOT of the assets over and over (especially Skyrim). SE dont lie when they say that FF7 could take 10 or more years to make, because there is so much in the game that is non-generic, and the world is huge, beautiful (the 2d scenes anyways) and requires huge ammounts of assets to be replicated in 3D. Im not defending them when it comes to their obsession with ultra-quality graphics though.
I think they could focus a little bit less on flashy stuff (spells need to be good looking though), so they could make bigger games instead. If they did, it would probably turn end up with the quality of for example Tales of Xillia, and even if it's a decent game, it's not an FF-quality game of the old school. Heck, they even reuse whole TOWNS and areas over and over in that game in order to be able to make it bigger. That games is only saved by it's good dialog and interesting characters, but suffers greatly in all other areas.

Sure, we can ask them to just make another pre-rendered FF9-like game, but I suspect that at least half the fanbase/customers would complain about them making games that would be better off on a handheld instead (I wouldnt though, Id love a new game in that style). And many would complain that they are just reusing an old formula. See, people are never happy no matter what you give them.That's a fact.

ashxgeist
ashxgeist

@cory_vet_gamer It pretty much died when Hironobu Sakaguchi left. He's actually made several offers to buy Final Fantasy from Square Enix to carry on in his new company, Mistwalker.

locke90
locke90

@Eldeorn @marcusknight963  yes eldeorn it would have been more successful, as it wouldve rose or fell on its own merits the fact that it had final fantasy in its title just proves to me a (veteran) gamer of 29 years gaming started at the age of 5 that if anything square were and still are trying to milk games they are making by slapping the ff logo on top of.


ashxgeist
ashxgeist

@Eldeorn @cory_vet_gamer You mentioned being more into "places, impressions (audio, visual and artistic), epic buildings, enviroments, exploration and discovery", and yet didn't mention FFXII which was loaded with it, with the added background and rich history of being tied to the FF Tactics and Vagrant Story world of Ivalice. For a PS2 game it was impressive the amount of detail and presentation they gave the world and environments of FFXII. Yet again, it goes under the radar. Also, if FFVII would take 10 years to make, "because there is so much in the game that is non-generic, and the world is huge, beautiful (the 2d scenes anyways) and requires huge ammounts of assets to be replicated in 3D", what about FFVIII? In terms of aesthetics, FFVIII trumps VII in terms of presentation and beauty, even unbias FFVII fans and people I know personally who may prefer it, will admit to FFVIII's world being more desireable aesthetically, and if you had to pick a world to live in. Looking at Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, Crisis Core, and other broadened examples of FFVII's world, it is pretty bland in comparison.

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@Eldeorn Honey seriously i will forget  2/3 of that crap that you sent me and what a stupid question you did there, im not surprised i know youre not intelligent it's obvious so i will answer your question doing another question, the only thing you can do in this game is fight if i used auto battle what will be the reason to play this game? to let it play alone? you DON'T know the franchise or what a JRPG is about it's about time you ended with your ''love'' session and the other lies related with this game youre ridiculous honey.

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@Eldeorn  Positive reviews and rates are invalid honey they don't reflected the content that those games have to offer so you could stop right there ok? i said that because i wanted to tell you that SE used to care about their fans im not snob your ignorance don't let you realize this and i forget that laste setence youre too ridiculous don't bother to annoy me again to say that you know this franchise or that youre a veteran gamer knowing you i know it will be a joke honey.

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@Eldeorn You still insist with that honey?whatever i don't believe it anyway and i find it funny when someone tends to correct my typography you do that to defend yourself against me? please only children do that and it's obvious that you like FF13 i noticed that ages ago you already showed that you have a bad taste for liking a ''saga'' deprived of the common JRPG elements since the very begining and when you say you played the classics i find it more funny, you think i don't know what i said when you mentioned Mario? it was foolish of your part to do comparisons between completely different games at the first place it shows how stupid you are and even if Mario is a simple game its not a nonsense unlike FFXIII and its sequels you novice gamer, when i talked about how we helped the franchise reach this status i was trying to put some sense in your little brain and remind you that things used to be much better between us and the gaming companies before this decline, your ''species'' are the ones responsible for all this there are so many genres straying from their origins to adapt to major audiences and every novice gamer is supporting them to maintain this mediocrity i can't express in words how much i hate that and you honey belong to that same audience so why don't you shut up? you have no right to talk about this, youre funny i started to laugh again Tales is a JRPG saga but FFXIII and its sequels are not you don't paid attention again i already told you that this failure don't have JRPG elements tell me why you are so stupid? some of hamauzu lyrics are pop'ish? 90% of hamauzu lyrics are pop based his lyrics are not bad but he definitely miss the purpose for each of his lyrics inside FF universe and that is not acceptable we the fans want to see memorable lyrics again like we witnessed in the previous games, no honey im not snob when i say that im a veteran gamer im trying to say ''watch your mouth when talking to me'' thats all but you never learn your place,you want to know how old i am? im 29 honey and the part when i guess that youre a novice gamer is a hunch of my part every people that i see here talking about the origins of the franchise never show any evidence that they enjoy a JRPG or even care about all the drastic changes that SE did,love is out of question their ''love'' lies in those games that doesn't make a shadow compared with the previous FF games and also they lack knowledge to have a fair conversation about all this just like you so you see honey my reasons are meaningful, by saying that you liked FFXIII you pratically stated that you enjoyed without the standard of the franchise and the JRPG elements so tell me what kind of ''veteran'' gamer or fan could do such a thing? this new generation is feeble minded they think that to be a fan is like a membership you buy the game and that is enough that is stupid i tell you honey i wonder how far they will go the only things that drives those novice gamers are their stupidity, watch your mouth jerk who the hell you think you are to offend me that way? oh you must have a mental issues so let me enlighten you in fact you are the fanboy,you are the one supporting SE to maintain this mediocrity its because of YOU and the others of this new gen that the gaming market is in this state you all act like a cancer that is slowly destroying the gaming don't bother to reply me i had enough of you.

Eldeorn
Eldeorn

@cory_vet_gamer @Eldeorn"you really played FFXIII honey? even if you don't use auto battle you will spam x during ordinary battles only the bosses require some kind of strategy"

Uh, yeah. You use X to select and use spells. And that differs how exactly compared to ANY other FF game? The only difference here is that it's faster than the older games so you hit the button more often.

Yeah you can win using auto combat alot of the time, but it takes twice the time to play the game that way, and makes it alot less interesting. Just because there is a tool for the lazy, or an easy setting, doesnt mean you have to use if it makes the game boring as a result.

I played through FF13 four times, and you know just as I do that what I write above is facts about how the game can be played, no matter if we think it's good or bad. So what base do you have for telling me that I havent even played a game that I praise for being good? Ar you a complete idiot?

You did avoid the question, how attempts did it take YOU to complete it when relying on auto combat and how long did it take you? Or did you play through it at all? Did you challenge yourself by taking on the more difficult bosses or tried to improve your killing speed? Or did you just grind enough level so that you could slowly coast through most of the content by doing the thing you find boring, which is to rely on auto combat?
You never said either, so it's a fair question to ask someone that complete shoots a game down for mechanics that are only built to use for beginners, or those that dont care much for flipping through menus fast & often, and don't care much for efficiency or self improvement (im not refering to you personally here).

Eldeorn
Eldeorn

@cory_vet_gamer @Eldeorn"it's because of us that the franchise reached the status of renown in the gaming world"

Such a self-centered way of viewing things. It reached the status beacuse it was GOOD and got good reviews. You didnt make the freaking game, nor did you do much of the advertising or hype for it. They did that themselves. You maybe told a few friends or posted on a forum, but everyone does that for all games they enjoy.

This is typical self-entitlement and self-centering at it's finest: They owe you. It's thanks to you.

You paid $50 for a game experience that lasts a life time, and they should owe you and thank you? Please. It's a fair give and take, you paid, they delivered. But the hard work and genius was on their end, you just enjoyed the fruits of their labor.

Eldeorn
Eldeorn

@cory_vet_gamer @EldeornYou obviously lack the ability to understand what other people are writing, and for gods sake, learn some punctuation, or your know-it-all-veteran attitude doesnt hold water when you cant even write properly.

"say that they played all the games i would lost the count it have become quite a cliche and their comment contradicts their statements just like the one that you sent me"

I dont care what you count or how many people have said that. Ive played all but 1-4, of which I played 7-9 the most with 4+ playthroughs per game, and you claim that I dont understand that they are good and what makes them good? Get off your high horse. I know it full well, and just because i ALSO happen to like FF13, doesnt mean I dont understand the qualities of what made those games special, which I already stated that I even agree with you on.

"you are being delusional or you are  completely clueless Mario is not a JRPG"

Read what I wrote. I never said mario is an JRPG, I said that 1) it has gameplay and 2) none of the requirements you seem to have for gameplay is nonexistant in that specific game. That's all. No story, no character depth, no turn based JRPG stuff, no thing more than jumping around collecting coins and mushrooms pretty much.

"it's because of us that the franchise reached the status of renown in the gaming world, you don't know this so i will tell you novice gamer SE used to care about us "

Are you just plain stupid or ignorant as a whole? Or simply trying to insult for the fun of it? You know, not everyone is 10 years old
that only just started playing FF13 as their first game. Im born in the 70's and have played games since the very beginning on all systems and platforms pretty much, so shut up about being a veteran gamer. Being able to like BOTH the new AND the old, doesnt make anyone a novice. It's obvious that you are the type of elitist that because you think that item A is art, anyone that likes other things that dont fit with your narrow-minded rule set is a novice, uneducated, ignorant, and so on and so forth. It's called taste and opinion, but you mistake it for correct or incorrect like it's an insult to you personally. You remind me of all the religious freaks out there.

."you don't even know what i was talking about when i mentioned Skyrim and GTA V "

It's a coincidense, believe it or not. I havent read your other posts. I brought those games up just to make a point about how the big, free roam games also are reusing content and mechanics on a big scale, which is a must these days unless you want short games that end in a few hours. Making non-generic  games like the old FF series takes way more time and resources than a game like Skyrim, Tales games, or whatever.

"What reasoning I have for comparing tales saga?"

You don't know how to read or understand what other people are saying. So again, let me rephrase it so you can handle it: It's an JRPG, it's big and it's not as ultra flashy as the latest FF's. If SE would focus on making a console game that is bigger rather than pretty, that is most likely what the result would be. Good story and dialog, but repetitive game mechanics, reused and repeated assets.

"The music is just pop"

Eh, no. Sure, some songs have vocals, and some are a bit pop'ish. Bat that's only a few of them. Sorry that you take so much damage from anything not being Uematsu. Games can have other music you know, and many do. And believe it or not, your view is not the only freaking view out there. Millions of people that enjoy FF13 as a stand alone game despite the legacy it's based on, says differently.

"because of all the twists that the franchise suffered are the people who wants to play a JRPG,in other words its us the veteran gamers"

I agree with you in that Id love if they could keep making classic FF games (with some tweaks and changes now and then) on top of the ARPG they tend to focus on now. Id happily play both that and the new FF13 even if it was called something else, and I would enjoy both of them for different reasons. One doesnt exclude the other.

Also, you mistake "veteran" for "
elitist rabid fanatic". If you werent so thick, you could just play a game, made by SE, that is exactly what you want - Bravely Default. It's just as much of an FF game that the old FF is, but with a different name. It's common to say people are stuck to the past and are narrow-minded, but you're the worst one Ive ever come across. Be proud.

It amazes me that the fact that ven if I openly agreed with you on what makes the old games special and also pointed it out with ease, it just go above your head completely, simply because I ALSO like the new games that your "veteran" mind dont agree with, How old are you btw, and how is it you are more veteran than me or everyone else that has played most of the FF's and other games dating back to the late 70's? You are special, is that it? You see things that most other people dont see? You are smarter and see the true value of the art in the things you like?

You tick all the above boxes. Rabid fanboy stuck in the past elitist thickheaded self-centered know-it-all better than everyone else.

cory_vet_gamer
cory_vet_gamer

@Eldeorn It doesn't matter if you played all the games or not honey but it is important to have a good grasp of how a JRPG should be and that way you can talk approriately about it,i can see you are unable to do that if i counted all the people who reply me to say that they played all the games i would lost the count it have become quite a cliche and their comment contradicts their statements just like the one that you sent me,can that be a mere coincidence?i don't think so but nevermind and what the hell you just said?you are being delusional or you are  completely clueless Mario is not a JRPG pay attention honey,there are ''shitloads'' of gameplay in FFXIII? you are being delusional again...you talked about the combat system only i just told you the elements that define a JRPG and you don't learned that it's a shame,Lightning is not cool she is a robot i already told you and talking about her skills are invalid that is not my point im talking about her ''personality'' she doesn't have one,you are fooling yourself with the word ''gameplay'' again you are talking about the battle system it is a element of the overall gameplay and that excuse based in lightning skills to prove her relevance is stupid why you are so desperate to defend this game? you see that is another proof that youre no veteran gamer, you really played FFXIII honey? even if you don't use auto battle you will spam x during ordinary battles only the bosses require some kind of strategy,you are interested in places, impressions , epic buildings, enviroments, exploration and discovery? then JRPG is not your place honey unlike you i WANT to play a JRPG i want to experience a deep and memorable storyline,free roam and exploration,quests,minigames and sidestories that is what a JRPG is about and it's exactly what the other JRPG gamers miss as well,i noticed that you don't know much about musics where Hamauzu lyrics fited anything in FFXIII? it's all about pop honey and because of that there's nothing that fits perfectly in any ocasion Uematsu have the ability to blend the moment and place to play his lyrics hamauzu never did that and you amuse me again saying that i dictated all that,FYI novice gamer we only want SE to restore the franchise we only want to see a game entitled as Final Fantasy that looks like a JRPG again we expect no less it's because of us that the franchise reached the status of renown in the gaming world, you don't know this so i will tell you novice gamer SE used to care about us before they let the greed consumed them and youre the one who obviously have issues youre in no position to offend me by saying those amusing things especially after this comic comment of yours, you don't even know what i was talking about when i mentioned Skyrim and GTA V i was disagreeing with another person that stated those games as linear when in fact that is not true you constantly fail to pay attention and you end saying a lot of nonsense,for what specific reason you are comparing the tales saga with FF? to read such a thing coming from you im certain it will be a surprise nothing that you say makes any sense and the only people that are complaining because of all the twists that the franchise suffered are the people who wants to play a JRPG,in other words its us the veteran gamers it would be better if you could distinguish us and the new generation of gamers [or idiots] they are exactly like the protagonist of FFXIII they don't have a personality and act like robots,everything is perfect in their little world no matter what kind of poo the gaming companies throws at them they will always receive it whith a smile that generation is destroying the gaming world like a cancer.

Eldeorn
Eldeorn

Adjustment to the second to last part of my post above:

Even if I think they could or should keep the graphics simpler to make a bigger game, it would most likely end up like Tales of Xillia or other games like it. Good story, good dialog, half-decent combat and really repetitive surroundings and monsters/npc's. And, unlike Tales fans, many FF fans would send bomb threats to SE for repeating a single stone more than twice, so their hands are tied no matter what they do.

ashxgeist
ashxgeist

@annabiabrum @cory_vet_gamer @travadinho People can't use their own word choice on the net now? Damn lol. It really isn't like someone you don't know is actually going to stop doing something just because a stranger on the net said so. Don't read her posts. It's that simple a solution.

ashxgeist
ashxgeist

@annabiabrum @cory_vet_gamer @Eldeorn Okay, I have to say now it is horrindously overused. I thought it was just possible applied southern tone the first few posts, now, it's like an obsessive compulsion.