GameStop is "taking everybody for a ride" says God of War dev

Ru Weerasuriya says retailers like GameStop should pay a cut of the revenue from preowned sales to publishers and developers.

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The boss of God of War: Chains of Olympus and upcoming The Order: 1886 developer Ready at Dawn Studios has said retailers like GameStop are "taking everybody for a ride" with their preowned schemes.

"I think the problem is right now there are retail outlets that are really taking everybody for a ride," said Ru Weerasuriya in an interview with GamesIndustry International.

"You can't make a living at the expense of everybody else. Unfortunately, they're not just making a living at the expense of developers but also the consumers because the consumers will see less and less games come out if developers can't get revenue to make more new titles and keep going as a business," he said.

The debate over preowned games has flared up recently after support for reselling games became a major talking point surrounding Microsoft and Sony's next-generation consoles, the Xbox One and PlayStation 4.

"I think this is something we need to curb on the retail side," said Weerasuriya. "We're putting the consumers in an awkward spot and we shouldn't have to."

Unlike the PlayStation 4, Microsoft's initial plans for the Xbox One required users to check in online every 24 hours and featured publisher-controlled support around each title's digital rights, though the plans were subsequently scrapped. "Why should [customers] be the ones to deal with a flawed system?" asked Weerasuriya. "They are the guys we do this for. They are the ones who should be able to benefit the most from being able to buy it."

Weerasuriya thinks that retailers should be required to give some of the revenue gained from preowned sales back to publishers and developers. "I don't think we should stop used games, but we should do something about getting part of the revenue back from GameStop and places like that."

Speaking about his own recent experience at a GameStop, Weerasuriya said, "I walked into a GameStop, asked for a new copy of a game and without telling me he tried to slip me a used copy and wanted to sell it to me for $5 less. I flipped out in front of the guy. I was like, 'Dude, wrong guy… You're doing this to the wrong guy.' I don't think people realize, and the guy was trying to justify it to me. I was like, 'You have no idea.' There are developers out there who are making games for [years] and some of them will go down purely because the revenue stream is basically flawed and creating this place where developers don't see even a little part of it," he said.

Discussion

1872 comments
osxgp
osxgp

I understand his point but didn't he get the money initially from the original sale?

McKnightx
McKnightx

If anyone is against used game is fine by me, But let me say an example, i want to get a new car. I sold my Toyota car to a used car shop. Will Toyota get a cut? No.

If i sell my Asus computer. Will Asus get some cut? No they don't. 

Developers/Company already got my money I brought and then is MINE and I can sell it or do whatever I want with it. Is actually MY lost to sells the game. Not them. So all companies, not only gaming, why is it different? I don't understand, Ru. You can't just limit the consumers. Look at Microsoft. They tried to limit the consumers and maximize profit. Did it work out well, Ru? If something failed, things tends to collapse and fail and you can't just put the blame on the consumers and take away the freedom from the products they brought from their hard earn money. 

And guess what Ru, All the used game you see was new at one time. So someone must have brought it brand spanking new. You not a charity company, idiot, You make products and need to make a good one to make a living. 

innocent69
innocent69

Sony HATES used game sales!!!!.......Buy an xbox, xbox loves used games.

udubdawgz
udubdawgz

at the current price of new games, used games do not take money away from developers.

come back and start a debate when the price's get significantly lowered.

as well, i can easily argue that used games lead to more new games being sold.

oh and don't forget the fact that devs/pubs should NOT get money from second-hand sales in the first place.  no matter how bad you really want it.

lastly, i can argue the fact that at least somebody in the industry is keeping old games meaningful, in circulation and the money flowing within the gaming industry.

that's a good thing ru we.


Dannystaples14
Dannystaples14

Hmm I do understand where they are coming from. The used game market is damaging to developers and publishes BUT overall I would imagine customer satisfaction would come over publishers wallets and bonuses. I guess not. 

I don't really see much of a way that the two could work harmoniously despite a method similar to the one Microsoft tried to implement on its console announcement. Though for it to work, both sides need to be looked at, customers and developers and a FAIR method needs to be used. Not just publishers taking 90% of the second hand sales and giving the finger to the retailers. 10% though? 

I don't see why that couldn't have worked. You buy a game worth $10, devs take $1 and retailers get the rest. Gamestop hopefully for everyone's sanity wouldn't raise the game prices as a result by loads but we won't care about the tiny amount that they do increase it by if they do.

Everyone is happy.

deltamirage
deltamirage

Gamestop is just a Pawnshop that specializes in used games. Why do people have a problem with one, but not the other?

peteyboi29
peteyboi29

ugh !!  this bullshit again !! its simple "make a good game people will buy it, make a shit game people will wait till its in a used bin" 

that being said the used games market's  days are numbered as are the none digital formats, the big corps will find a way to force them in, as its beginning to be painfully clear  that these companies no longer give a toss about the customers and only there sales figures, and tbh that's what i expect of them.


the only question remains " will you allow them to make just another mindless consumer idiot of you or will you grow a mind and stop buying there shit !!!   its not like games are the only thing to do in life is it ??? 

Shanks_D_Chop
Shanks_D_Chop

This again... Why? Why the fuck should they? Why should anyone get paid twice for one job?

Maybe Gamestop really are as shady as his anecdotal evidence suggests but let's stick to the facts.

Elann2008
Elann2008

Gamestop has a garbage system.  Publishers are beyond greedy.  Developers get screwed.  

Customers have always had the power of choice.  Either buy a game day one, at $60, or wait for a sale.  If you can't afford that game you want right away, it doesn't mean you flock to the used game pile.  Support the developers.

The problem is, there are a lot of gamers that do not care and they will even buy fairly new games used just to knock off $20.   Unless it's Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, or GTA, these same gamers aren't going to pay $60 for a game.  

So are you all saying these games (mentioned above) are better than all of the games that aren't selling well?  They are the best of quality that we have in the game industry?  You guys must be delusional.  There are many better titles than these games that should be selling more.  It's the gamer demographic.  It has changed.  They flock to the triple A titles.  

I do not support used games, but maybe it could stay if there was a better compensation system for developers and publishers.  Publishers are also at fault for poorly managing development costs.  



MrB1ank
MrB1ank

If you'll notice... it's only shitty developers that are bitching about used games. Funny, Rockstar seems to be doing ok. Naughty Dog seems to be doing ok. These shit dev studios are basically asking to get paid TWICE for a product after it's already been paid for. Used games are about consumer's rights and ownership.  The reason gamestop is doing so well is BECAUSE GAMERS DON'T WANT TO PAY 60 BUCKS FOR YOUR SHIT GAMES. We reject it. We're not paying 60 bucks for cash-ins and sloppy design

Nosoor
Nosoor

hungry for hell not for heaven i guess

Mariner32
Mariner32

Well, he's right on some points and wrong on others. Yes, if developers don't see a net gain on a game, they may well go under. However, how they achieve that net gain is up for debate. Either the MSRP has to increase to keep up with rising development costs, developments costs have to go down to maintain our constant $60 MSRP, or the quality of games needs to increase for more people to want to buy the game at full price.


I'm sure it seems easier, from the devloper's standpoint, to point the finger at used games, but no other industry seems to be suffering the way we're told the games industry is. It's all about ROI and if you can't find a way to increase the sale price of a product, all you can do is decrease the development cost. Somehow, the games industry doesn't seem to understand this as development costs continue to rise.

Justforvisit
Justforvisit

And here I was, thinking that - after Sony announcing BIG AND FAT at E3 "We LOVE used games, we believe that's a GOOD THING" and even forcing M$ to 180° it's policies with that - we never ever again would have to deal with Bullshit Idiots like that guy

-___-

tightwad34
tightwad34

So if someone sells the car I sold them I should get a cut? Sorry, even if they offered me a cut I wouldn't take it because that is THEIR property to do whatever the hell they want with. It's called selling and owning, not borrowing, for a reason.

Redblaze27
Redblaze27

Game Developers need to play by the rules every other industry that makes a product does.


If the used market is this great a danger to developers, something is fundamentally wrong in the cost aspect of game design.

Holla27
Holla27

Devs want to punish the consumer because the publishers are not giving them enough money, its a real shame.

The_Cimmerian
The_Cimmerian

"...Unfortunately, they're not just making a living at the expense of developers but also the consumers because the consumers will see less and less games come out if developers can't get revenue to make more new titles and keep going as a business" 

Really? Now don't get me wrong, I hate places like this too, but if you read carefully the message here is: "because you get to trade/buy cheaper games, we may not be "able" (we will punish you infidel) to develop more games." It's like we are being blackmailed for the entire Game industry >COUGH< CAPCOM >COUGH<Microsoft. 

To people (and the entire game industry) like this i tell you. Stop trying to pass the "blame" on the consumer for seraching the cheaper option. And if a reduced group of peolple (even as low as one or two persons) can make a MINECRAFT, a MCPIXEL, a FEZ, a Hotline Miami, etc., the there's no exuse for you. You GREEDY Mo**er Fu**ers.

VenkmanPHD
VenkmanPHD

.............

.................

..............................

No.... DUH

Is this really news to anyone? Of course gamestop is the problem.

Love them as I do, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they need to pay their share.

God people get more and more dumb every second of every day.
The fact this is presented as some sort of "Revelation" is just ridiculous.

MrB1ank
MrB1ank

It's people like this developer that make the industry shit, like what it is now. Gaming NEEDS to crash and get a fresh new system in play.

AlwaysRunning
AlwaysRunning

I suppose apple orchards should get an extra slice of the profits when restaurants turn their apples into apple pies, as well. 

North_wings
North_wings

Would devs stop complaining if they sold their games twice the price, and get their "used" cut, straight from the start? Hell no.

Don't touch the used game market. PERIOD.

dpsuurhoff
dpsuurhoff

People keep making book, movie, car etc. resale comparisons, I see the similarities but I also see a massive discrepancy. These mediums do not have a single international multimillion dollar entity that controls the vast majority of resale.

I think the 'ride' he's referring to is the $5 you get from Gamestop for selling them a brand new $60 game which they then turn around a sell for $55. I'm not sure how anyone can defend that especially considering the amount we save as consumers is minimal at best, and the revenue the company makes is absolutely massive for the effort/money they put in.

To me, the best comparison I can think of for the used games industry is the bottled water industry, who sell common tap water for massive profits. I don't know why people defend it so vehemently.

Wesleypipes777
Wesleypipes777

This argument is only applied to gaming because they see the money being made, but this is just a good example of how big gaming is. People have sold used copies of stuff for a long time ( books, movies, music ....) and nobody bitched and moaned about it and wanted a piece like the current gaming devs. 

However I do agree that the margin between what gamestop pays you for a used game and what they resell for is a bit ridiculous, it's about the same as going to a pawn shop except worse, especially considering they won't even actually "buy" your used game. You get store credit that you have no choice but to give right back to them. They should either raise the buyback price or pay actual money for your used games.

nameaprice
nameaprice

@McKnightxeveryone in EVERY type of industry needs to accept making less money. This idea that your company is only successful if you made MORE money than the previous year is BULLSHITT and unsustainable


punisher1
punisher1

@peteyboi29 saddly for some people it is. In stead of them just going outside and doing anything at all.

Redblaze27
Redblaze27

If I buy a bag of used clothing, should I hunt down every clothing manufacturer involved and give them 20% of what I paid for the clothes?

AlwaysRunning
AlwaysRunning

@Holla27 Nah. The problem is that they spend TOO MUCH money. If you have to sell 5 and 6 million units within one month, just to break even, and your game isn't Call of Duty or Halo, then that's their own fault. Customers aren't to blame, and neither is GameStop.

Bahamut50
Bahamut50

@The_Cimmerian those games don't take shit all to make compared to whatever the order seems to be. Don't hate on me for this, but i don't buy used mainly because i want to support my devs.

AlwaysRunning
AlwaysRunning

@VenkmanPHD Game developers and publishers already got their fair share when the game was sold new. The first-sale doctrine and the right to resell merchandise are basic elements of our economy, which have existed for hundreds--thousands--of years. If game publishers are having money issues, it's their own fault from over-spending. If your audience is not large enough to support your budget, you lower the budget! Any grade schooler can figure that out, but apparently mega-publishers can't, and want free handouts, instead.

VenkmanPHD
VenkmanPHD

@MrB1ank No, actually it's people like you who spout off nonsense without using their brain first.

Elann2008
Elann2008

@AlwaysRunning 

That is not the same thing.  What a terrible example.  You should have deleted this comment.

AlwaysRunning
AlwaysRunning

@North_wings Exactly. This was never a problem until publishers started getting delusions of Hollywood-status and began to massively over-spend in development. If you make a huge, sprawling game that costs half your company to create, and lacks the audience to recoup your costs, that's not the fault of used games or GameStop. It's a consequence of your own poor business decisions.

VenkmanPHD
VenkmanPHD

@Andrew1073 It's called being a retail associate and doing your job.

YOU are the asshat.

pldlevysama
pldlevysama

@Andrew1073 sigh... this is the most retarded comment I have read in a long time. You do realize people only stay working at gamestop if they are able to sell people these things. Mine as well call up your favorite TV station and demand they dont show you advertisements. Go on Youtube and demand that they stop putting up advertisements. these things are there because they are begging you to buy whatever it is so that they can continue to make money to provide you a service. Same for Gamestop. Employees do this in order to keep their jobs!!

North_wings
North_wings

@dpsuurhoff The reason they sell the games for 55$ isn't the reason why he's complaining. He's complaining because they get nothing from that 55$.

If you're going to buy a used game which came out 2 weeks ago, then of course you're not saving anything more than 5 bucks. If people buy it at 55, they'll keep seeling it at 55. But after waiting several months, why wouldn't someone buy a used one for 20$ less?

dpsuurhoff
dpsuurhoff

@Wesleypipes777 Exactly, they are seeing all the money left on the table and want a piece of it, and can you really blame them considering the costs and effort Gamestop puts forth compared to the devs/publishers when making a AAA title? I don't think I can.

The_Cimmerian
The_Cimmerian

@Bahamut50 @The_Cimmerian  Of course i don't hate you for this. 

Also, it's good to support de devs (specially the good ones).

As for the games that "don't take shit all to make" , it's true and that is precisely my point.

A good game, a fun game it's not necessarily a triple A budget one and for that reason, it's (in my opinion) not a valid excuse to say "retailers" or consumers that don't want to "support" them by buying their Ultra, Delta, Alpha, Omega, Epsilon, Arcade, Champion, Deluxe... versions of the SAME game (im looking at you CAPCOM), are to blame for not having money to make a new version or better yet, a new IP.

Thanks for reading and keep supporting the deps (specially the indie ones).


P.S. I love quotation marks.

Andrew1073
Andrew1073

@pldlevysama@Andrew1073Actually, I have another thing to say.  I go to PLENTY of other retailers.  For some reason when I go there and say no thank you to their extra offers and reward programs they than tell me my total and I am on my way.  Gamestop is very pushy, they tell me I am WRONG when I say no thanks.  It's different than other retailers for me, and any way you look at it, it can't be that great for gamestop because they just lost a customer.

tldr; I disagree with you.

cachinscythe
cachinscythe

@pldlevysama @Andrew1073 What world are you living in where people AREN'T complaining about advertisements on YouTube? His comment is certainly loaded with hyperbole, but the base idea remains the same. Even if you're saying they're just doing their jobs, GAMESTOP is the one TELLING them to do their jobs that way.

And there's a big difference between TV and video games. TV can't make money except from advertising and neither can YouTube. Profits at a game store come from the games, not the pushiness of the employees. If it were actually the DEVELOPERS engaging in this behavior, this forum would be condemning them for it, even though they'd be doing the same thing as those employees at Gamestop.

You have a right to be bothered by something, and if Andrew1073 is bothered by the customer service at Gamestop, he has every right to voice it. Whether it allows them to keep their jobs or not, if enough people are bothered by a practice, they will go elsewhere to purchase their goods.

Andrew1073
Andrew1073

@VenkmanPHD Actually, I have another thing to say.  I go to PLENTY of other retailers.  For some reason when I go there and say no thank you to their extra offers and reward programs they than tell me my total and I am on my way.  Gamestop is very pushy, they tell me I am WRONG when I say no thanks.  It's different than other retailers for me, and any way you look at it, it can't be that great for gamestop because they just lost a customer.

Andrew1073
Andrew1073

@cachinscythe @pldlevysama @Andrew1073 boo, finally someone comes to my defense, but I have already succumbed to the masses that are right about my opinions and deleted my comment. 

Thanks though cachinscythe, I appreciate your comment.