GameSpot GamePlay Episode 51: Mr. Miyamoto, Tear Down This Wall

Tom, Tyler, and Caro join host Kevin VanOrd to return to the halcyon days of the video game Cold War.

GameSpot GamePlay Episode 51: Mr. Miyamoto, Tear Down This Wall

We tackle Internet abuse head on, pondering the bullying and berating that creators suffer on a daily basis. Was Phil Fish right to cancel Fez 2? Do artists need thicker skin? How do we halt the gross words hurled our way each day?

Don't worry: we're not total Debbie Downers today. We also recall our favorite breakfast cereal jingles (well, Kevin does, anyway), debate the merits of BioShock Infinite's combat-focused DLC, and learn more about R. L. Stine than we imagined we would. We still can't get rid of the Goosebumps.

GameSpot GamePlay Episode 50: Pining for the Fjords

GameSpot GamePlay Episode 49: E3PO Meets King Organa

GameSpot GamePlay Episode 48: Final Freedom Force Fighters

GameSpot GamePlay Episode 47: Floaty Butt

GameSpot GamePlay Episode 46: Banana Hammock

GameSpot GamePlay Episode 45: Popular Tarts

Written By

GameSpot senior editor Kevin VanOrd has a cat named Ollie who refuses to play Rock Band because he always gets stuck pla

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75 comments
AtheistPreacher
AtheistPreacher

I really hope you guys are doing another episode this week, I missed my fix last week.

blikketty
blikketty

Oh c'mon Van Ord, Honeycomb clubhouse?  No.  Honeycomb HIDEOUT.  Turrible. 

push88
push88

I want a game that has a world and story as interesting as the first BioShock game with FPS combat like DisHonored.

push88
push88

The thing I hated about BioShock Infinite's combat was the lack of features that were advertised in  early versions of the game.   The whole point of the Elizabeth character was to add a new dynamic to combat.  At least, that's how I understood it.  What happened to all the combo attacks we were supposed to able to execute with her?  Remember when she used her powers to make a small lightning storm or the ball of fire?  Instead the combat was exactly like the first game with the exception of the rail system.  In fact, I think that was the only thing they kept from those early videos.  

Gelugon_baat
Gelugon_baat

I would remind the people that say "you should grow thicker skin" to the likes of Phil Fish that they should be saying the same thing to his detractors too. ;)

Xristophoros
Xristophoros

Another great show. This is one of the best gaming podcasts out there and I look forward to listening to you guys every week!

Ixidor56
Ixidor56

Love the show!

Como on Tom, less hate and more love, Bioshock's combat is not that bad!

EvilDan666
EvilDan666

Hi Gameplay podcast crew! I listen to your show every week and I like it a lot. I would just like to make a suggestion; I would like to see more discussions or debate on weekly video games news instead of just a small segment and then quiz. Continue to invite guests from the video games industry to talk about their games!

Continue the great work!

Diarma10
Diarma10

I have to say this,  Vanquish for me, desperately needs WASD and a mouse. I'll be waiting for the PS3 emu in order to play that game...

coztg
coztg

Love the podcast guys!! Wait for it to come out every week, and listen to it while working in my lil picture framers in Perth, Western Australia. Keep it up! Love the games, love the info, love the random chatter.

grey_fox1984
grey_fox1984

I've actually read all of the Halo books- they are arguably better than most of the series. In fact, the weakest book (by a wide degree, it's pretty bad) is the only one that is a novelization of a game. Do not read "The Flood". If you want a great military sci-fi one, read "Ghosts of Onyx", "Halo: Evolutions" is a great anthology to start with (short stories in a variety of genres that you can knock out in an hour or so) and the Greg Bear Forerunner Trilogy is actually a pretty solid series of hard sci-fi. 


(I should point out, I was also skeptical of game-based novels, but read "Halsey's Journal" that came with the collector's edition of Reach...picked up "Fall of Reach" and before I knew it, I'd read like 9 Halo books) 

misterBullseye
misterBullseye

A BIG thank you to Caro for not spoiling Bioshock infinte for me (haven't finished it yet), and a BIG thank you to Kevin for warning about the Braid spoilers. I own the game, but haven't had time to play it yet.

Less spoilers overall is a very good thing, those are for the spoilercasts, right? I have been a bit frustrated with you guys some times in the past when unannounced spoilers where aired freely, but no matter now.

Great show, and I will keep replying to assholes on the internet in defence of you all, but not sink to their level.

Peace!

Cordliss
Cordliss

"Just grow a thicker skin", "we shouldn't have to put up with this in the first place as an Industry".

Yes Caro, you should grow a thicker skin and yes you will have to put up with this because there will always be people who don't agree with your work or the things you say...always. Unless you want to start seeing people locked up for having a differing opinion or criticism (which is total non sense) or you want to start controlling how people think you will have to deal with other people who won't like what you do.

Hate to be the one to tell you guys this but the world doesn't revolve around what you want. People don't care about your righteous attitude toward the culture and how you want it to be better then it is, they don't care. You can't lock people up for being "dicks" and they aren't going to disappear any time soon. Learn to ignore these people or it will only make you leave the industry and you give those losers exactly what they want.

It can't be a defeatist attitude when the only other option is to abolish freedom of speech, dealing with people is part of life and unless you want to live in a cave and avoid people for the rest of your life you will have to learn to work around the nonsense.

MasterOfMordor
MasterOfMordor

Another podcast, another opportunity for Caro to throw her sexuality out there.  Is there a reason why I can listen to many of these podcasts and not know Kevin or Tom's sexuality, but there is no questions as to Caro's lifestyle choice?  

To echo my sentiments from my comment on last weeks show, be proud of who you are, but do so with grace as Tom and Kevin do, flaunting it in my face every single week is not graceful.

On to Mr. Fish vs Mr. Beer, Beer, as Annoyed Gamer, his online persona, crossed some lines with how he put his message forth, but the message behind the venom is a solid one.  If people don't want to talk to the media, then the media doesn't need to talk to him.  There is a back and forth.  Maybe not expressed, but implied.   Especially for an indie developer.  The media helps sell your game, don't forget that, from previews, to reviews, to glowing praise on podcasts like the GiantBombcast.  The media drives sales, so is it so much to ask to throw them a bone and make a comment or two?  It's not like he is afraid of aggravating MS, I mean, does anyone remember the Fez patch fiasco?  So just say a word or two.  It isn't blood they want, despite what CliffyB (pompous yet talented fellow who should just get back to doing what made everyone care who he is in the first place) says.

Rodrigo_AA
Rodrigo_AA

I'm the guy who sent the idea of the quiz about game novels! I'm glad to see that I could contribute a little bit to the show.

k0wing
k0wing

how can you say he doesn't owe the journalist or the gamers anything? its like saying the person one elects to office doesn't owe their voters anything. where would Fish be if gamers voted with their money and didn't buy one copy of Fez. the gaming industry is comprised of a bunch of symbiotic relationships no man is an island. for cliffy b to say that also.....plz he needs to be quiet 

edwindamen
edwindamen

I like this show more than anything on gamespot

frozenux
frozenux

Phil Fish isn't exactly a fluffy teddy bear as far as making statements lacking "tact" (if i may use the euphemism) go.So it's with no surprise that he attracts hives of online hornets.

He is just throwing a tantrum(not the first time by the way) and will eventually be back after some time off.Making games is his passion and it's not something that can be easily cast away.

Sun-Tzu-GE
Sun-Tzu-GE

It's "reptilians" Kevin !  haha

g1rldraco7
g1rldraco7

i can't believe that people are sending Carolyn and Kevin such negative messages. That is sad when people stop what they do because they care about other people's opinions. I am guilty of leaving hate comments to om McShea, but that was for his review for Skyward Sword. I don't hate the man and I would never send anyone a death threat. Except for Kristen Stewart, Taylor Swift and Jennifer Aniston. I hope you have fun in Las Vegas Kevin :D

dt2003
dt2003

I'm like Kev, I despise the combat in Bioshock 1 and couldn't even play it, but I really enjoyed the combat in BIoshock Inftinte for some reason, lol. 

max-hit
max-hit

@Ixidor56 I think the combat was one of the greatest aspects of the game. I enjoyed it a lot.

TomMcShea
TomMcShea

@Ixidor56I think BioShock Infinite is a massive step backward for video games and I hope no company tries to emulate it. By churning out just another mindless AAA shooter, Irrational showed the lack of confidence they have in video games as an emotionally stimulating medium. They flushed their ambition down the toilet in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It's a sad effort that's even more depressing than morally blind games such as Call of Duty. At least Call of Duty is true to its reprehensible self; BioShock wants to be all things to all people but is just another warning sign in how not to create worthwhile experiences.

Xristophoros
Xristophoros

@Ixidor56 But the combat is by far the weakest aspect of the game and felt tedious. As Tom mentioned, Lavine's strength as a director lies in his characters, settings and storytelling, and it's a shame that those elements always take a back seat to the lackluster gameplay. There is so much more potential in the Bioshock series, but it is held back by the poor shooting mechanics and the very fact that it is a FPS. Levine should get out of the genre altogether and make a smaller budget game. One that is more suited to his strengths and focuses more on the narration aspect.

max-hit
max-hit

@Diarma10 That's true for almost every game. I can't even handle any shooter with a controller.

grey_fox1984
grey_fox1984

I also remember reading a Ninja Gaiden novel when I was in the third or fourth grade. It was based on the old NES game and I remember it being a pretty cool, Indiana Jones-style adventure, but with Ryu Hayabusa (and Irene, who hasn't made an appearance in the modern games at all, to my knowledge- though I never finished NG2 and didn't play 3 at all) 

carolynmichelle
carolynmichelle staff

@Cordliss There's a difference between criticism and insults that are based on someone's ethnicity, gender, sexuality, gender identity, or other such characteristics. Of course I don't want people locked up for being critical of the perspectives of others--I'm often critical of the perspectives of others, nor do I want people locked up for making hateful comments. But I do believe that we can set cultural expectations in online spaces, much like those that exist in offline spaces, that say that hurling insults at someone because of their ethnicity, their religion, their sexuality or what have you, is simply inappropriate, and that people who engage in such behavior should be criticized, shamed, and shunned for doing so. 

carolynmichelle
carolynmichelle staff

@MasterOfMordor I'm having trouble with comments today; the comments I post appear to keep disappearing. I apologize if this is a repeat of comments that are already visible for you.

 When my...umm..."lifestyle choice" as you put it is relevant to a topic we are discussing, why shouldn't I mention it? I'm not ashamed of it, and we were discussing nasty comments on the Internet. If you look at nasty comments on my stories, THEY make an issue out of it, not me. Often such comments insult me for being trans. And in general, women, people of color, gay people and members of other groups often have their gender, sexual orientation, race, gender identity or other such characteristics turned on them in slurs and epithets by angry Internet commenters. Meanwhile, the comments that are directed at someone like Phil Fish or one of my straight male colleagues might be nasty and hurtful, but they won't have their race, gender, sexual orientation or other such things be the basis for those comments. It's not the same as gendered insults, racial insults, or other such slurs. 

Also, of course Tom's "sexuality" comes up sometimes on the show. When doing so is relevant to a story he's telling (as it sometimes is), he mentions his wife, and there's no reason whatsoever that he should refrain from doing so. So if you're paying attention, you do "know" Tom's sexuality, despite your claims to the contrary. His "flaunting" of his sexuality, his declaration of his "lifestyle choice" to be a straight, cisgender male, just doesn't stand out for you at all, while mine do, because you find my identity questionable, abnormal or objectionable.

mrworkaday
mrworkaday

@MasterOfMordor Hi MasterOfMordor. I have listened to lots and lots of episodes of Gamespot Gameplay (can't believe we're at episode 51! I remember listening to the first episode on headphones at the office) and I must say none of the cast have ever acted with anything other than complete grace, no matter whether the topic is professional, personal, political - they always maintain a high standard of dignified good humour.

Sun-Tzu-GE
Sun-Tzu-GE

@k0wing Cliff needs to shut up.All those Lamborghinis got to his head.But they don't owe anyone anything though.Just like with everything else,if you like his game you buy it.If you don't like it,you buy another game.It's that simple. 

cousinmerl
cousinmerl

@dt2003 Playing through clash in the cloud you really under stand that you need to keep moving and making use of tares and using vigors.

I'm really enjoying clash in the clouds.

55584623
55584623

@dt2003 i really enjoyed the combat in both games. Infinite feels more dynamic and fluid but still at the end of the day i prefer bioshock 1, it had a more challenging and flexible combat.

specially the encounters with the big daddies, they really force you into thinking and planning your strategy, well otherwise "mr. bubbles" beats the hell out of you!


Bahamut50
Bahamut50

@TomMcShea @Ixidor56 Dear god, i think you usually do some great responses to people who disagree with you, but despite the well-written refusal to deem Infinite a good game, it comes off as hostile :S. I simply cannot agree with this statement. I really enjoyed playing Infinite, though i can't feel the same when playing Call Of Duty. I just think this was a poor response. Sorry dude, i'm not hating on ya but reading this was disappointing to me.

Ixidor56
Ixidor56

Do you think the original Bioshock has a better combat? For me infinite is much better, the skyrails give a lot more variety than closed rooms and corridors.

Not sure what you expected from Irrational, Infinite is in the same vein as the original Bioshock, it's an FPS in a dense universe with a great background story, but still a shooter.

Just for the record, I only played the original Bioshock in 2012, so maybe I don't get the feeling about how it compares to other games in 2007.

s_h_a_d_o
s_h_a_d_o

@carolynmichelle@Cordliss

So why do you all not 'criticise, shame and shun' M. Beer for his inflammatory abuse in the first instance? Or is this (yet another) case whereby those proclaiming themselves 'game-journalists' close ranks lest the questions raised become too uncomfortable?

MasterOfMordor
MasterOfMordor

@carolynmichelle @Cordliss Actually, what you had said on the podcast is "I don't blame Phil Fish if his feelings get hurt or if he feels wounded at times".  However the comments made about Phil Fish, at least in the case of Marcus Beer, were attacks against his character, not his race, religion sexuality etc.  

You then went on to change the subject for all intents and purposes.  You took a leap off a cliff from one person attacking someones character into insults against sexuality, ethnicity etc, when one had absolutely nothing to do with the other.  Where is the connection there, beyond the anonymity that the internet provides for people to be jerks.  I would just like clarification on how attacks of character, which are open season, especially when that character is as debatable as Mr. Fish's, got turned into a conversation about sexuality etc.

mrworkaday
mrworkaday

@carolynmichelle @Cordliss "we can set cultural expectations in online spaces". Gamespot Gameplay is *the* podcast when it comes to this. Not to denigrate other broadcasters, but before I started listening to Gameplay, I followed a number of other gaming podcasts (they were how I reoriented myself to the gaming landscape after a number of years' absence). Generally the quality of criticism was good, until they hit upon that point of intersection with any wider social phenomenon (often sexism or heteronormative values in some form) whereupon that critical engagement would just evaporate. Whether it's violence, sexism, homophobia, racism....all the ugly biproducts of a nascent community still learning to police itself, Gameplay has been willing to have the discussions. That's not to say I always agree with the conclusions!

Gamespot Gameplay hasn't really singled out these issues or approached them with an agenda; it's more that you've consistently made your high expectations clear whenever these issues have arisen in the course of discussing anything and everything related to the medium. Which is just fucking great! And I signed up to Gamespot specifically to leave this message, so just wanted say thanks - you've made a real contribution to signposting the way to a more human community on the internet. Cheers y'all!

grey_fox1984
grey_fox1984

@carolynmichelle @MasterOfMordor Caro, know that some of the people who listen are proud of your confidence in who you are and appreciate your perspective being rooted in your experience, when the topic comes up in the conversation. Just as Kevin will reference his sexual orientation in poignant moments like the recent confession about his crush on Ryan Davis (which was heartwarming, if you ask me)- and as Tom stands firm behind his controversial review of The Last of Us; you should stand firm behind your identity, and not let jerks in the comments section get to you  (because let's face it, if they wouldn't be here if they weren't listening to you anyway!).

MasterOfMordor
MasterOfMordor

@mrworkaday @MasterOfMordor I agree they handle the way they speak in a graceful, politically correct manner.  However, the lack of grace was meant directly towards one of the cast members consistent mentions of their sexuality or sexual identity.  Flaunting such in someones face is not graceful in my opinion.  I hope that clarifies things a little bit, and I am sorry if I created any confusion for you or anyone else reading my post.

robchiang1990
robchiang1990

@55584623 @dt2003 I love Bioshock as a RPG-lite and Infinite as a flawed but fun shooter. And I think the show might have a "Mcshea against shooter" segement, I know the dude loves Half-life 2, Gears of War and might have enjoyed some Call of Duty, but the way he trolling Crysis and this time Infinite make one wander whehter Mr. Mcshea gets shooter or not. 

Fiscaldeal
Fiscaldeal

@AggrandizedUser @Fiscaldeal I'm not arguing that all spiteful comments should be taken seriously, I just find it hard to imagine being able to laugh off torrents of hate being sent one's way. I suppose I just don't have the personality for it.

Gelugon_baat
Gelugon_baat

@s_h_a_d_o 

You may want to ask yourself whether the issue can be solved with more people-bashing.

MasterOfMordor
MasterOfMordor

@grey_fox1984 @MasterOfMordor Well thank you, I appreciate that.  I will say that you are wrong about me.  I feel no discomfort at all with the idea of transgender.  The issue as I see it is that as you say, she points out her identity.  On a gaming podcast it should only be pointed out when directly relevant to the subject matter.  She does it at every point she can.  There is the difference and there is my issue.  

She feels a need to bring it up fairly frequently, and when I say something about that fact, I am lambasted as sounding intolerant, as if I can't bear  to think about a transgender person.  That couldn't be further from the truth.  However, if you want to be treated as "normal" (whatever that actually means), then act it.  I don't bring up my sexuality or the fact that I am a man very often, nor does Tom, nor does Kevin.  I can almost guarantee that if i had the time to go back to each podcast Caro would be the front runner by a wide margin when it comes to bringing up such topics as sex, sexuality and gender.

All I am saying is that it can/should be toned down a bit on a gaming podcast, not because I have a personal issue with the topic, but because this is a gaming podcast.  If topics of sex, sexuality and gender are irrelevant to 90% of gamers in 90% of games 90% of the time, why do I hear about them in 90%+ of GameSpot Gameplay podcasts?  I am sure there are podcasts for those topics to be voiced to the heavens, this is not one of them.  If it is, I would like one of the staff to let me know, and I will find other gaming podcasts, where games and gaming news are at the forefront of every episode.

grey_fox1984
grey_fox1984

@MasterOfMordor @grey_fox1984  You are certainly not in the same league as trolls who simply jump onto a message board and spew hateful comments for no reason; however I do think that your discomfort with the idea  of transgender people is colouring your perspective a bit. I don't think that Caro talks about her identity in every episode, I think that when she does, it triggers something in you sparks a reaction- one that is at least strong enough for you to jump on the message board and ask her to stop. She never steers the conversations to centre around her identity and it never dominates the podcast. She just points out things quickly, like the fact that she should have played "Catherine" in order to get an opinion on the transgender character in that game. That is a relevant point, relates to her identity and relates to videogames- no reason at all to cause alarms.

MasterOfMordor
MasterOfMordor

@grey_fox1984 If i were proud that I were great at baseball (I'm not but still), and were on a gaming podcast, should I try to find a way to squeeze it in at every opportunity?  Would that not annoy you a bit.  Being proud and talking about something constantly are two different things.  

When Kevin referenced Ryan, they were talking about memories of Ryan, so really anything that included thoughts, feelings etc about Ryan was fair game.  It is not a fair comparison.  And When Tom stood by his review about a game on a gaming podcast, come on, do I really need to explain why that is ok?

You are right, I listen to the podcast, in hopes of gaining some insight or knowledge about games and gaming news.  I tend to find that people are more honest and open in podcasts about their feelings on a game than they are in a review.  I also like the debates on subjects pertinent to the industry, which can include sexuality from time to time, just not every episode. 

And I am certain you didn't lump me in with the jerks, because you are too intelligent to say that someone with a valid complaint is the same as some jerk with nothing but hatred to spit forth.  Those jerks should really just retire their accounts.