343 asks for feedback on Halo 4 weapon balancing

Many weapons being improved so they can compete with the DMR.

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Halo 4 will be getting an update specifically designed to address weapon balance, and developer 343 Industries has outlined some of the ideas currently being tested.

The developer has also specifically asked for feedback on the proposed changes.

Many of the balance changes revolve around Halo 4's ever-popular precision weapons, specifically the DMR. The studio's current thinking is between whether to weaken the DMR or to improve the other weapons, with the team currently experimenting with the latter.

343 Industries' current proposed changes include reducing the amount of shots it takes to kill an opponent with most weapons: the Battle Rifle will now kill in four bursts instead of five, and it will take seven shots as opposed to eight to score a kill with the Carbine.

Meanwhile, the Light Rifle reticule will now turn red at the same distance as it does for the DMR.

Moving to the close range weapons, 343 Industries is experimenting with a damage buff on the Assault Rifle, Suppressor, and Storm Rifle. To compensate for the additional damage, the efficiency of the auto-aim on these weapons has been decreased to require more accuracy from the player.

343 Industries is also looking to increase the damage on the Warthog and the Mantis vehicles.

Any current proposed balance changes are not final, says 343 Industries. "In fact, they are as far from final as they can be without being not final," wrote Halo community manager Jessica Shea. "Please recognize this is a work-in-progress, we will clearly communicate our final plan once we know it, and until then, we’ll provide weekly updates about its current status."

Last month 343 Industries said that microtransactions could make their way to Halo 4 in the future.

For more information on Halo 4, check out GameSpot's previous coverage.

Discussion

177 comments
jetjetjaguar
jetjetjaguar

I wish that they would introduce ranked play.  You play a few rounds, you get a ranking.  Then you can choose to play in upper levels if you want (but never lower).  Your ranking changes over time with weight to most recent games.  I guess the number of players playing at anytime can get in the way of this but that can be fixed with "play current level or next available game?".

Superw33d
Superw33d

this sounds great...BR needs to be made at par with DMR.....n even the LR and carbine 

JRLennis
JRLennis

There's a reason why everyone uses the DMR.  Put two equally skilled players at medium range, give one an assault rifle and the other a DMR, and the DMR will win out every time.  This is actually counterintuitive.  The DMR should perform best at long range, and a full auto gun like the assault rifle should be ideal for medium range work.

Really, the gun balance has been off since the beginning.  Most Covenant weapons don't have enough ammo capacity to be useful, and you rarely feel like you have an edge carrying one.  Playing Halo 4, I often wonder how the Covenant ever brought humanity to the brink of extinction.  That's a problem.

Spectyle
Spectyle

Games no longer require skill and time to master. When once every weapon had its special role their now all placed at like the same level. A DMR user with sufficient aim shouldnt lose to an Assault Rifle and long range and so forth. Halo 3 for one reason or another always appealed to me as far as multiplayer is concerned. Halo 4 needs to stop trying to appeal to everyone and there be a skill aspect to where you cant just get a random kill button mashing but by working to practice and hone the weapons.

Oozyrat
Oozyrat

This is a little late, but if they see these comments then the next one will be really good. But with so many people complaining, it might be hard to get some fans back. 343 is really going to have to listen and advertise if they add stuff fans want. I do miss the Halo feel in 4, and hopefully they'll get it back, but I still enjoy it. How about one more giant Forge map too?

ilantis
ilantis

Sadly Halo 3 is still the best Halo game for multiplayer (big maps, fair distribution of vehicles, skill matters)

Reach's was good, not as good in some ways but better in others; 

4's was a copy&paste from Reach with smaller maps, loadouts and a COD oriented level up system. The graphics are amazing, but the gameplay just became as frustrating as COD because basically everything you have to do to succeed is now related to how fast you play and how many kills-per-minute you make.

Carreau13
Carreau13

It only feels imbalanced because you can choose to start with shitty weapons now.

kabalzer0
kabalzer0

wanna balance the weapons? WELL thats super easy! GET RID OF THE FREAKING LOADOUT SYSTEM! if the weapons are placed on the map the only thing they have to do is placing the more powerful weapons in placed where there is a higher risk of getting killed... 


then nobody cares about  the DMR being more powerful than the BR. if everyone starts with the BR as a standard weapon, you have to pick the DMR up and fight for the weapon wich makes it balanced.

its so freaking easy. but i guess every shooter nowadays has to be tailored to Casual gamers.. -_-

silvergol
silvergol

Feedback=DLC

I do not support that!

macca366
macca366

I had no problems with the DMR, its obviously the gold standard. But that just means you've got to be good or clever in using other weapons to their own advantages to get an edge. I'm not sure what the point of different weapons is if they're all just evened out to essentially be the same...

arc_salvo
arc_salvo

Sounds like a step in the right direction.  I always did feel like the weapon balance was slightly off.  That said, I think the real issue is that almost every other weapon is some form of DMR.  How many mid-ranged scoped semi-auto weapons do you need anyway?

alkaline8088
alkaline8088

basically  you've worked on nothing but terrible games until the halo franchise, first be ashamed, then increase the br firing rate 5%, the storm rifle accuracy 8%, and leave it alone 100%. none of the halos have ever had equal weapon strength, in halo ce the pistol was king, in 2 and 3 the BR was king (obviously halo 2's dual wielding had it's place but the BR was the best)  reach had the DMR and so does halo 4, all you need to do is remeber that the DMR is the best gun, the ar is for close range and people that can't shoot, the BR is for the people that cant aim well enough to use the DMR, the carbine is in that same area but for the people that can fire fast enough to keep up with the DMR. If you really want to make halo great and the ultimate game again all you need to do is put back the 1-50 level system, the only level system that has ever really mattered online and remember that you designed the DMR for players who could play. thats it. halo has never been about equal weapon power, its about skill and only the people with true skill can dominate, if you must adjust it, ake the DMR like the REACH DMR not only am i right, amazing at all halos, and amazing at all shooters but i also know quality video games and considering turok and nba street are on your resume one the best ways to make halo better would be to quit. please dont influence any more games, thanks.

soldierofAthens
soldierofAthens

What I liked about Halo Reaches DMR is that it is the most accurate weapon for the UNSC when it comes to mid range fight's. I mean sure it fired slow but if you pace your shots and be patient in your fight's it's the most accurate weapon.

Also i miss Arena from Halo Reach. Sure it dosesn't have the ranking system from Halo 2 and Halo 3 but it was quite close. But umm just a thought maybe 343 should consider a rank playlist that switches game types kinda like players in Reach had a choice to vote for DMR Slayer matches or Elite Slayer matches. For Halo 4 Though it could be DMR Slayer matches and Battle Rifle matches so that everyone is even with the same primary and secondary weapon.

soldierofAthens
soldierofAthens

There's more problems to Halo4 then just this. But it is a start.

The DMR is the best when it comes to map's that are more spread out and are quite big. Kinda like I think it's called Complex where one of the team's hang out on the biggest bulding in the whole game that has height vision of most of the map. When DMR players take control of that location the game is basically over. The good thing is the BR is great when it comes to mid range and close up fight's. Battling a player using DMR from across the map  is well sucide.

Printul_Noptii
Printul_Noptii

Hands down Halo 2 had the best MP with dual weilding and all that good stuff, that game seriously needs an HD revamp similar to the anniversary of the original Halo. Also the guns were very well balanced in Halo 2.

earthnuggets
earthnuggets

Finally. It's ridiculous how stubborn developers are in admitting their own biases when it comes to competitive games. The MP40 crippled Call of Duty: World at War, for instance, doing the same damage as the bolt-action rifles. Even with fan outcry, Treyarch ignored all requests to make an adjustment. I'm glad 343 is taking notes. Kudos to them.

DarkKnight5688
DarkKnight5688

As someone who has logged a considerable amount of playtime on Halo 4's multiplayer, I wouldn't be opposed to these changes.  The DMR is without a doubt my go-to weapon, but I'd welcome a damage boost to the battle rifle and the assault rifle (especially the assault rifle - I'd love to love this gun, but it's still quite out-classed in most situations).  However, if you're going to give the battle rifle the ability to kill in 4 shots, make it so that's in close to mid-range encounters.  Long-range, bullet spread should force the gun to drop to 5-7 well-placed shots to kill.

ElFlechero
ElFlechero

I hope they settle on something less drastic than these proposed changes. A 4 shot kill with BR? Only if they make the bursts spread more. The problem with increasing the other weapons is that it will make quicker deaths, less time to turn around out-play your opponent. And that is what makes Halo unique, more fun an more skill based than CoD, where it's just about "I saw you first!"

Shantmaster_K
Shantmaster_K

Nice of 343 to get the gamers opinions. I think the weapons are pretty decent now. I know the DMR was a little more powerful when Halo 4 originally came out. I haven't really been playing to much of it recently to have real opinion anymore. 

JusXice
JusXice

I thought Halo 3 was the best ever? when it come in terms of multiplayer 

Also make your maps limited like COD you play on it two times and it over EVERYBODY I  MEAN EVERYBODY votes for Exile 

mastergonzo87
mastergonzo87

I agree The_Beanster, I am not that competitive when it comes to Halo MP so I loved the social lists. It seems like 343 and Bungie often leave what works behind in lieu of innovation. Invasion, Alpha Zombies, many of the Action Sack game types, and the ranked/social MP lists were all very popular, but were for whatever reason, abandoned. They should add to what works while remaining the great innovators that they are. 

The_Beanster
The_Beanster

Yup... the single biggest improvement to Halo MP would be to bring back ranked/social playlist distinction.


I have never heard anyone explain the reasoning for abandoning that; it worked insanely well in H2/H3.

UltimaArcane
UltimaArcane

@JRLennis Because the only soldiers with shields in the Haloverse were Spartans. Normal soldiers don't have access to shields, thus giving a large advantage to the Covenant, also numbers were in favor of the Covenant. 

That's what I think at least, if you want a story driven reason. But I agree, weapons need to be balanced bad. Only Covenant Loadout weapon I use is the Plasma Pistol for obvious reasons.

ddoggbritt16
ddoggbritt16

@JRLennis i never use the dmr and i dominate i use either the assault rifle or the br

The_Beanster
The_Beanster

@ilantis yup... even the new CSR is basically just a kill-per-minute measurement


pisses me off that Bungie and 343 have taken a CoD flavored dump on this series

DesertEaglex24
DesertEaglex24

@kabalzer0 I couldn't have said it better myself. Halo 4 is trying to be more like black ops than halo. Reach was the last good halo game.

The_Beanster
The_Beanster

@alkaline8088 you had me until "Reach DMR".... the Reach DMR was a broken POS unless you are thinking of the ZB DMR.

Spartan_418
Spartan_418

@soldierofAthens the Reach DMR had the problem with reticule bloom, which didn't simulate recoil, but instead just made shots more random.

Imagine two players firing at each other at medium range. A player who fired as quick as possible, and got a lucky spread, would beat a player who tried to accurately pace their shots.

spammehardo
spammehardo

@Printul_Noptii Someone tell me why they like dual wielding? It made almost all the weapons in the game suck horribly unless you dual wielded them. Needler, pistol, plasma gun, plasma rifle, all sucked compared to halo 1 unless you were dual wielding them and even then you had to land twice as many shots.

Printul_Noptii
Printul_Noptii

@earthnuggets yeah lol I remember those days XD the MP40 was on the same level as the bolt action that was weird but then again weapons in Treyarch CoDs always kinda felt the same.

Oozyrat
Oozyrat

@ElFlechero That's why they only need to increase the automatic guns but increase the health system as well. Make the automatics do a little more damage so there's a slight but noticeable difference and make the overall lifetime a little longer with better shields.

The_Beanster
The_Beanster

@ElFlechero Halo 4 isn't really a competitive shooter anymore... H3 was the last Halo that really had any viability as a competitive 4v4 game.

The_Beanster
The_Beanster

@JusXice I think H2 had the best LAN multiplayer and H3 had the best matchmaking.


Reach was poo and H4 is CoD-flavored poo in comparison (don't get me wrong, I enjoy both, but they don't compare at all to H2/H3).

Oozyrat
Oozyrat

@The_Beanster @alkaline8088 Lol he lost me at increase BR firing rate lmao the BR is totally fine. Only thing they need to do is increase health/shields and increase rapid fire gun damage.

alkaline8088
alkaline8088

@Spartan_418 @soldierofAthens  since you're commenting her you honestly didnt understand that the point of the bloom was not realism but to make skill and timing more important, also the bullets were random inside your aiming reticle making it real to it, if you want ease of killing play cod if you want realism play red orchestra 2, if your just stupid, kill yourself and we can all be happy.

soldierofAthens
soldierofAthens

@Spartan_418 @soldierofAthens  What do you mean by the bloom? Is that the red dot that's your aim indicator when aiming through the scope? Crouching made the DMR less jumpy when using the scope. Even if it was a of both player's using the scope then the person crouching at first may have the edge of the player that isn't. If it's a fight where both see each other then scopeing doesn't do them any good. Then it becomes what you said. But the DMR battles are a bit from Halo4 then it is from Reach.

In Reach it's important not to fire as quickly as you can because then the DMR is sloppy because of the recoile. If you wait for the dot to get to the original position everytime then your actually going to win over your opponent that isn't pacing his shot's. Then only in Reach though, in Halo 4 its well different.

OHGFawx
OHGFawx

@spammehardo @Printul_Noptii Until the first update you were dead if you dual wielded. It was BR or death, unless you had rockets or the sniper. After the first update dual wielding finally started being a viable option and they also upgraded melee damage to where it actually mattered. My favorite combo was the SMG/Magnum, well it was until the next update which nerfed the hell out of pistol damage. After that it was all plasma pistol, mainly the infamous Noob Combo.

The_Beanster
The_Beanster

@LightEffect @The_Beanster I just don't understand why they ever removed that... sometimes I like to play ranked, sometimes I like to goof off.  It's no fun grouping all the try hards into the same playlist with all the goof offs, regardless of skill level. 


Halo MP really lost me in large part because of that asinine decision. And I wish I could blame 343 for it, but it was Bungie that initially did away with it.

The_Beanster
The_Beanster

@alkaline8088 @Spartan_418 @soldierofAthens good Lord please don't try to make this "bloom added skill" argument


It's been debunked a MILLION times. Bloom was a broken as hell mechanic that DAMPENED skill differences between players.


Also, Arena was garbage. Kind of a cool idea, but just a junk replacement for ranked lists in the end.

alkaline8088
alkaline8088

@Spartan_418 @alkaline8088  the bullets were inside of the large circle based on your firing rate, a skilled player with firing rate and strafe would win every time, those that fire as fast as possible are the ones that die almost always, een a pistol beats the DMR up close with rapid fire, regardless are you saying that a fight cant be won or lost because of luck anyway? you're basically saying that the mechanism causing players to use skill more in fact requires less skill to use, when firing in a random circle this may be true, but that the point of bloom, the skilled players never need to deal wit hthe randomness then shit player can pull the trigger as fast as they want, i encourage it because then i get more kills. i assmue you are one of the people i kill, so keep calm and die on.

Spartan_418
Spartan_418

@alkaline8088 It's unclear who you're replying to.

The problem with bloom had nothing to do with realism.

The problem was that it randomized your bullet spread, so a fight could be won or lost because of luck, not skill. 

The_Beanster
The_Beanster

@OHGFawx @spammehardo @Printul_Noptii It depended on the map and how you wanted to play... dual wielding could always be viable on a map like lockout/ivory tower depending on how you wanted to play it


BR was still the uber go-to weapon though. H2 was just the only game where dual wielding was actually powerful enough to ever matter.